 | | simply A nightmare. rural places lol | |
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 |  | | Re: simply Let me clarify to you what "rural places", or "rural fringe areas" (according to the FCC) are. ... Hunterdon County, NJ (which is cited in the article) happens to be just ~40 miles from New York City and Philadelphia.
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 |  | | Don't laugh. Recent non-decinnial Census data (yes, they keep the shop open all the time and use commercial databases to produce interim reports on population trends, including migration, between the decinnial head counts) reflects that certain areas of the urban east coast are beginning to lose population while the rural west is seeing it's population increase. As inflation skyrockets, don't be surprised if the few jobs that remain in the US relocate to less expensive, non-urban areas. | |
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 2 edits | Hawaii Senator panics over DTV conversion
»news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-100···1_3-0-20
At a hearing on the impending DTV transition Tuesday, Senator Daniel Inouye, chairman of the Commerce Committee, warned that the loss of analog over-the-air TV reception, occurring just 29 days into a new presidential administration, might spell trouble for a country already beset by the financial crisis.
"While federal agencies and industry have stepped up their efforts, I continue to be concerned that they are not fully prepared for the flood of coupon requests and calls that we can expect just before and after the transition," said the senator, a Democrat from Hawaii. "As the current administration winds down, both agencies must remain vigilant so that the next administration does not inherit a communications crisis."
Referring to test of the DTV switchover conducted two weeks ago, Inouye wasn't encouraged. "As the recent test in Wilmington, North Carolina, demonstrated, even with a Herculean investment of time and resources that will be impossible to replicate throughout the rest of the country, consumers made thousands of phone calls seeking help with various aspects of the transition. On a national level, this may translate to millions of calls. Unless more is done, February 17, and 18, and 19, will be very long days indeed."
FCC Chairman Dennis Martin, conversely, found some encouraging signs in the recent Wilmington test but agreed with Inouye that additional funding for education about the transition was still needed, calling for another $20 million. Martin statement to Committee: »hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/a···89A1.pdf
Summary of calls by type of problem in the Wilmington test:
 FCC_WILM_TEST.PDF 27763 bytes
FCC report on DTV conversion: »hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/a···89A2.pdf
The FCC report lays out lots of details on how many stations are yet to declare readiness and on the subject of analog vs digital coverage.
-- My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk? | |
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 | | Rural General Suckitude I don't know which is worse in rural areas...the fact that the phone lines are and have always been for shit, or, the fact that you can't even use good ol' rabbit ears to pick up any TV signals anymore. | |
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 |  jmn1207Premium join:2000-07-19 Ashburn, VA | Re: Rural General Suckitude said by SilverSurfer1:I don't know which is worse in rural areas...the fact that the phone lines are and have always been for shit, or, the fact that you can't even use good ol' rabbit ears to pick up any TV signals anymore. Why can't you use rabbit ears? I can pick up digital stations using a wire coat hanger with no degradation in quality. It's digital, so you either get it or you don't. It's not like the analog signals that would vary in quality depending on the strength. Rabbit ears will work just fine. | |
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 |  |  1 edit | Re: Rural General Suckitude said by jmn1207:said by SilverSurfer1:I don't know which is worse in rural areas...the fact that the phone lines are and have always been for shit, or, the fact that you can't even use good ol' rabbit ears to pick up any TV signals anymore. Why can't you use rabbit ears? I can pick up digital stations using a wire coat hanger with no degradation in quality. It's digital, so you either get it or you don't. It's not like the analog signals that would vary in quality depending on the strength. Rabbit ears will work just fine. The issue is that the digital signal has a sharp cutoff where you either get the signal or not. The analog signal would degrade over distance but still provide a viewable channel, even if the quality sucked.
This map of the coverage in the Wilmington test shows how the analog transmission had a farther reach. The digital coverage was helped by overlapping digital signals from nearby affiliate stations on the same network. But the area in orange basically lost all NBC coverage in the switch. »hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/a···89A4.pdf

-- My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk? | |
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 |  |  |  jmn1207Premium join:2000-07-19 Ashburn, VA 2 edits | Re: Rural General Suckitude And here I thought the FCC had conducted tests to ensure that the coverage would not be diminished when the switch to digital was made.
I wonder how this will impact satellite TV and local channel distribution. In areas where local networks were not included with DirectTV or Dish, you had to live outside the range of the local analog signal's reach to be eligible to get generic network broadcasts piped to your satellite receiver. I suppose the distance requirements will have to be adjusted accordingly. | |
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 |  |  |  |  | | Re: Rural General Suckitude said by jmn1207:And here I thought the FCC had conducted tests to ensure that the coverage would not be diminished when the switch to digital was made. And I wouldn't be surprised if the FCC also allowed adjustments in transmitted power so that the digital stations get a further reach(similar to the analog coverage) in order to cover areas like those on the map in orange. -- My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk? | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  jmn1207Premium join:2000-07-19 Ashburn, VA | Re: Rural General Suckitude said by fAcEtIOUs:said by jmn1207:And here I thought the FCC had conducted tests to ensure that the coverage would not be diminished when the switch to digital was made. And I wouldn't be surprised if the FCC also allowed adjustments in transmitted power so that the digital stations get a further reach(similar to the analog coverage) in order to cover areas like those on the map in orange. Hopefully there won't be any situations that might cause one signal to bleed over the top of another. If that is even possible with this type of signal. I know with my radio stations I can make a mix of Mexican Radio meets Contemporary Jazz. This occurs late in the evening and I call this music style, Contexican Jazzio. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  Morac join:2001-08-30 Riverside, NJ kudos:1 Reviews:
·Comcast
| said by fAcEtIOUs:And I wouldn't be surprised if the FCC also allowed adjustments in transmitted power so that the digital stations get a further reach(similar to the analog coverage) in order to cover areas like those on the map in orange. If I recall correctly, many stations whose frequency lies within the VHF range will actually be broadcasting with less power to prevent interference with FM stations. Plus they don't pass through physical objects (walls for example) as well as UHF frequencies.
Many of those stations are currently broadcasting in the UHF frequency range, but will switch to VHF after Feb 17, 2009.
For example Philadelphia's KWY-DT (CBS) is currently broadcasting on a UHF frequency (don't have it in front of me at the moment), but will switch to channel 3 after the switchover. That means people who can receive the channel now, might not be able to get it after the transition.
See »www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthre···t=823166 | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |
 |  |  |  |  |  |  | | Actually, in Philly, it's WPVI-DT (the ABC station) that's moving their digital signal back to VHF-Lo, not KYW-DT. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  Morac join:2001-08-30 Riverside, NJ kudos:1 Reviews:
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: Rural General Suckitude said by StudioTech:Actually, in Philly, it's WPVI-DT (the ABC station) that's moving their digital signal back to VHF-Lo, not KYW-DT. Oops, you're right. That's actually worse since WPVI-DT doesn't come in very well currently. I shudder to think of what it will be like after the switchover. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  | | The last I read for this area the FCC had cut the allowable transmit power to prevent interference to stations in the Midwest. Creating the problem of no receivable stations even with a large fringe antenna. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY kudos:1 | Re: Rural General Suckitude They should have made USA DTV be encoded in CDMA. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  53059959Temp banned from BBR more then anyone join:2002-10-02 PwnZone | that would help increase bandwidth efficiency so you could get a better picture or sound, but not raw signal strength.
cell phones work because there are towers all over the place. If you paid $50/mo for tv service you could have similar land based radio coverage. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  tschmidtPremium,MVM join:2000-11-12 Milford, NH kudos:5 Reviews:
·Fairpoint Commun..
·Hollis Hosting
1 edit | said by fAcEtIOUs: And I wouldn't be surprised if the FCC also allowed adjustments in transmitted power so that the digital stations get a further reach I agree there will be likely be changes allowed after Feb 2009 as stations/customers get some real world DTV experience. The real test will not be Feb 18, 2009 but spring of 2009 when trees leaf out. Folks that had good TV reception in winter may lose it in summer.
Currently with simulcasting of analog and digital TV bands things are pretty crowded. After analog goes dark, even with loss of channels 52-69, band will likely be less congested in most regions. That means interference will be less of a problem making it viable to modify signal strength.
Something many people may not be aware of is customer signal strength is a combination of many factors: 1) Transmit power, 2) Antenna gain, 3) Distance 4) Terrain 5) Multipath and other impairments.
We tend to think of TV Stations as being onmidirectional transmitting equal signal in all directions but that is rarely the case. Stations design antenna to have difference gain in different directions. It is a lot more cost effective to double receive signal strength (3 dB change) by tweaking antenna radiation pattern to change Effective Radiated Power (ERP) then to double transmit power. There are limits to this of course but it is not just a matter of cranking up transmit power with commensurate increase in utility bill.
/tom | |
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 |  |  |  | | said by fAcEtIOUs:The issue is that the digital signal has a sharp cutoff where you either get the signal or not. The analog signal would degrade over distance but still provide a viewable channel, even if the quality sucked. In the little testing I've done, the analog quality would have extra-high suckage. I've seen perfect DTV picture quality with no drop-outs when the equivalent analog channel was so snowy it was no more then a ghosted black & white eye-hurting remnant of itself. Looks to me that the DTV signals need very low S/N to work just great.
Maybe in some markets the DTV stations are running at reduced power before the transition date ? ? ?
This exact same argument was put forth back in the good 'ol analog cellular days. "My digital phone cuts out all of a sudden where I used to have analog coverage !" Truth be told, the analog coverage was so static-ridden and broken up it would take an experienced intercept operator to get any intel out of it "What ? What ?? Say that again - YOU'RE WHAT... ?!?!?!!?"
Welcome to the Digital Communications Revolution - where it either works or it doesn't.  -- 3500/512 5.7 GHz Motorola Canopy Wireless; FoxValley.net "Peace through superior firepower" | |
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 |  |  |  |  Mac BridgerLate to the partyPremium join:2001-01-11 West Newton, PA | Re: Rural General Suckitude Some stations are running at reduced power right now. Some aren't even broadcasting... | |
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 |  |  |  |  systems2000What? You Say It's Fixed. Hah join:2001-11-29 Cyberspace | said by jay_rm:In the little testing I've done, the analog quality would have extra-high suckage. I've seen perfect DTV picture quality with no drop-outs when the equivalent analog channel was so snowy it was no more then a ghosted black & white eye-hurting remnant of itself. Looks to me that the DTV signals need very low S/N to work just great. This could very well be caused by different Multi-Paths between the different frequencies the analog and digital are transmitting on. -- Personal Theme Song: RUSH - Mystic Rythms from Power Windows.
Rush Radio Website | |
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 |  |  |  | | It's not even just as simple as you either get it or you don't, all of the tv channels I get that are digital are choppy if I don't have the antenna adjusted just right for each channel I watch I have to constantly adjust my rabbit ears or the digital channels break up into little squares and then the screen freezes for minutes at a time, then picks up the signal again for a minute or two then cuts back out. atleast with analog you could still watch the show with out interuptions even though the picture might be a little fuzzy. | |
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 |  |  OlegBellsouth FastaccessPremium join:2003-12-08 Birmingham, AL | This days everyone has digital cable or satellite anyway. | |
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 |  |  |  jmn1207Premium join:2000-07-19 Ashburn, VA | Re: Rural General Suckitude said by Oleg:This days everyone has digital cable or satellite anyway. No, 12% do not, according to what is being reported. | |
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 |  |  |  |  DrModemPremium join:2006-10-19 USA kudos:1 | Re: Rural General Suckitude That's the same percentage of people who (supposedly) still have dialup, but no one caters to that class.
Why should this be any different just because it's TV? | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  jmn1207Premium join:2000-07-19 Ashburn, VA | Re: Rural General Suckitude said by DrModem:That's the same percentage of people who (supposedly) still have dialup, but no one caters to that class. Why should this be any different just because it's TV? Well, we could at least get a crummy, snowy reception of Jeopardy if Uncle Bill, with a metal plate in his head, sat on the love seat near the window. It was something, just like dial up. Better than nothing at all, perhaps, or maybe losing TV is the best thing that will ever happen. With no TV, one might expect to see increasing levels of reading comprehension in those areas. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  BabyBearKeep wise ...with Nite-Owl join:2007-01-11 | said by DrModem:That's the same percentage of people... ...but no one caters to that class. Hasn't stopped Apple.  | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: Rural General Suckitude Hasn't stopped Apple.  Apple? Arn't those long gone / dead?  | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  tschmidtPremium,MVM join:2000-11-12 Milford, NH kudos:5 Reviews:
·Fairpoint Commun..
·Hollis Hosting
| said by DrModem:That's the same percentage of people who ... have dialup, but no one caters to that class. An analogy would be if dialup was being discontinued and you did not have broadband access you are no longer able to access the Internet.
/tom | |
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 |  |  |  |  | | Re: Rural General Suckitude said by tschmidt: OTA typically has better picture quality then Cable or sat because it is not recompressed to reduce bandwidth usage. That is not always true as these 2 Philadelphia, PA channels indicate. Check out the video bitrate column.
CBS isn't compressing and has only 1 digital channel to use their bandwidth.

But ABC cut up its bandwidth to squeeze in more sub channels.

-- My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk? | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  tschmidtPremium,MVM join:2000-11-12 Milford, NH kudos:5 Reviews:
·Fairpoint Commun..
·Hollis Hosting
| Re: Rural General Suckitude said by fAcEtIOUs: That is not always true as these 2 Philadelphia, PA channels indicate. Sorry, guess I was not clear. Stations can and often do broadcast multiple sub-channels.
What I meant was programs broadcast over the air are often recompressed by Cable and Sat providers to squeeze more channels into their channel capacity reducing quality compared to what one gets with OTA.
/tom | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  tschmidtPremium,MVM join:2000-11-12 Milford, NH kudos:5 Reviews:
·Fairpoint Commun..
·Hollis Hosting
1 edit | Re: Rural General Suckitude said by djrobx: I cringe when people say OTA is superior because it's "uncompressed". Agree, most people don't realize an uncompressed 1080i or 720p raw bit stream is over a Gigabit per second. Lossy compression is used to reduce it to around 20 mbps.
Compression can be used to reduced data rate to anything desired. However, greater the level of compression the poorer the image/motion quality.
/tom | |
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 |  |  |  |  RayWPremium join:2001-09-01 Layton, UT kudos:1 | said by tschmidt:Conversion to DTV is actually increasing number of people using over the air antennas. OTA typically has better picture quality then Cable or sat because it is not recompressed to reduce bandwidth usage. In addition in these poor economic times I'd be willing to bet some folk are going back to OTA to save money. /tom My neighbor put up an outside antenna just for that reason, much better signal than Dish or Comcast, but he kept Dish for the extra programming he gets.
We and a few of our neighbors who have gotten the boxes have seen a bit better signal on the digital modes than with the analog. But the digital modes do have some odd display formats (vertical letter box vice horizontal?), but that may just be the wife not wanting to adjust for the different modes with the control. (caveat: I do not watch TV very much, very little worth watching any more) -- I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
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 |  |  |  |  | | I would switch to DTV if we could get signal. I wonder if we could get a big enough antenna to get signal 70 miles away. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  tschmidtPremium,MVM join:2000-11-12 Milford, NH kudos:5 Reviews:
·Fairpoint Commun..
·Hollis Hosting
| Re: Rural General Suckitude said by wcnghj:I wonder if we could get a big enough antenna to get signal 70 miles away. 70 miles may require Herculean effort, unless you or transmitter are very high.
Check out the TVfool site and see what estimated signal strength is. If estimated signal is better then about -110 dBm you have a chance. Try modeling at different heights. But putting up a tower is expensive. At that distance weather will be a factor so no matter how good the antenna you may not be able to get good signal 24/7/365.
Good Luck
/tom | |
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·Frontier FiOS
| I don't-- OTA all the way!
I do have FiOS Internet however 
**actually i havent had cable for about 15 years once i discovered the content choices over the air, on dvds and via the internet are far superior to paying for cable
i always just surfed through the channels with cable anyways (hoping to find something good!)
--i would however reconsider cable if they offered an al-a-cart service of just a few channels (like 2 or 3!) | |
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 |  |  |  1 edit | said by Oleg:This days everyone has digital cable or satellite anyway. Um.. not everyone. I still watch TV over-the-air with rabbit ears. Oh and I'm IN Madison and still have problems with the DTVs here. (Approx. 10 miles from the 15/57 tower and approx. 12 from the "Supertower.")
-Adam | |
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 |  |  | | said by jmn1207:It's digital, so you either get it or you don't. It's not like the analog signals that would vary in quality depending on the strength. Rabbit ears will work just fine. In the case of the testers in Hunterdon County, NJ (~40 miles to NYC and Philly), it was "You don't". The signal strength is just not enough with digital where there once was with analog. For these testers, there was 100% loss of all currently served broadcast channels (2-13).
We're not talking rabbit ears either... Roof antennas only brought in new non-English channels instead. One tester went as far as to head over to radio shack for help, and found out he had to purchase an amplifier to supplement his roof antenna too.
Not directed at you, but to rant on... The sad reality is, as it is now, is that people would have to shell out $300 for roof antenna if they don't have one... and an amp for $?, not to mention the cost of the converter (even with 1 coupon).. While some may say, switch to something else... That is not the point here. Broadcast TV is supposed to be free to masses. Should people buy roof antennas and amps for the portable TVs? I know I'd miss mine in the garage that I also take camping.
If the FCC can't handle DTV in a metro-NYC area by calling it "rural fringe", what's going to happen in all areas that isn't within 35 miles of a tower? A coupon for 1 converter isn't going to do it. | |
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 |  |  |  See 29 replies to this post |
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 |  |  | | Reston isn't even close to being Rural. Try that in Culpepper Va. | |
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 |  |  |  jmn1207Premium join:2000-07-19 Ashburn, VA | Re: Rural General Suckitude said by grydlok:Reston isn't even close to being Rural. Try that in Culpepper Va. Oh I know, this is a suburb of DC. I don't have any issues, in fact, I use Comcast AND have Verizon FiOS available here, too. | |
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 |  |  |  |  1 edit | Re: Rural General Suckitude Yeah but telling somebody you have no problems what so ever picking up OTA channels with a set a coat hanger is a joke. You are like 20 miles from the towers. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  jmn1207Premium join:2000-07-19 Ashburn, VA | Re: Rural General Suckitude Yes, a joke. | |
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 |  |  | | ya no doubt i lived 60miles south of STL in the boonies and i just put my 20year old bunny ears out side and it works fine, so ppl with a out door antennea should be fine | |
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 |  |  | | How far are you from the towers? 5 miles? 10? Try over 40. It just doesn't work. | |
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 |  | | don't forget about the biggest rip off all time Satellite internet. When you live out in the middle of no ware it the only broadband you can get, if you can call it that. To make things worst it about a 200 meg daily download cap :-( | |
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 |  | | Start with the current analog channels. They're all yellow or worse RIGHT NOW, except for the nearby WNJB. That's your baseline for comparison. So right off the bat, you're already going to need more than rabbit ears, EVEN FOR ANALOG.
Post transition, 5 goes to red. 12 and 13 were already red as analog stations. 10 is not red, it is yellow. In the yellow, that location will have two ABCs, two NBCs, two CBSs, two MyNetworkTVs, and a couple of other stations. Just 3dB down and they'll pick up Fox and CW. And note that TVFool is pessimistic: I'm currently picking up a channel predicted to be -110 dBm at my location, in the gray, with a modest-sized antenna. | |
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 MattAll noise, no signal.Premium join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC kudos:12 | Wilmington Relatively Flat Too
The Wilmington area is relatively flat too, as it's a coastal city. So if they are experiencing issues, throw in a few hills and/or mountains and you may have a bigger problem. -- Linux Haters Unite! | |
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 |  | | Re: Wilmington Relatively Flat Too said by Matt:The Wilmington area is relatively flat too, as it's a coastal city. So if they are experiencing issues, throw in a few hills and/or mountains and you may have a bigger problem. IMO you bring up a good point.
We live north of Seattle with a few ridge lines between us and the broadcast antennas. When we hooked up our digital OTA box to our TV a couple of stations we got on analog didn't appear on digital. Sure enough, the signal strength wasn't high enough for the converter box to send a signal to the TV.
Wayne | |
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 | | any hot rural chicks trying to put in some over time, I bet we can solve this problem real fast. lol | |
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 GNHTesla RecoiledPremium join:1999-12-20 Arlington, TX | FreebieTV Get the same idiots that are pushing for a $700+ billion dollar bailout to include DISH or DirecTV accounts for all those poor, left-out rural residents. | |
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 | | 11 to .. ? So the current number of channels (OTA) I receive (11) is going to drop to what... 3? It sucks being in rural America. This has no huge effect on me, as I do no watch TV. But I know many in my area with antennas only... and they will definitely lose out. | |
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 |  | | Re: 11 to .. ? I mentioned it above but I'll say it again. The Channelmaster 4228 is the best HDTV antenna you can find for the price. | |
|
 Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
| Great, yet another thing to give me problems
I live in the 'dead zone' between Milwaukee and Chicago. While I do have cable, I have a TV antenna on a rotateable pole to use when the cable goes out. All my TVs have digital tuners, but even with my big gun antenna, reception sucks on certain channels. If Digital TVs range is less, then I may not get anything at all when the conversion strikes.
I guess then my wife will get her wish and the antenna will come down off the roof.
The antenna: »products.howstuffworks.com/terk-···view.htm | |
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 |  See 9 replies to this post |
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 SLDPremium join:2002-04-17 San Francisco, CA | God forbid! Oh no! If people can't get their crappy network TV, someone needs to go to jail! | |
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 |  powerhogStinkin' up the jointPremium join:2000-12-14 Owasso, OK | Re: God forbid! I would think that anyone in TX - especially recent events where you list as your location - would be somewhat aware of the need for WEATHER reports from your local stations. | |
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 |  |  bear73Metnav... Fly The Unfriendly SkiesPremium join:2001-06-09 Grand Forks Afb, ND | Re: God forbid! thats why Weather Radio is still transmitting | |
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 |  |  SLDPremium join:2002-04-17 San Francisco, CA | Yeah...a weather radio is very useful - that is why I have one. I rarely watch TV, but I know when a storm is coming. | |
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 | | Warmachine99 Warmachine99: I live IN Milwaukee, With large antenna in my attic, and the digital coverage is spotty. Some times of the day it's flawless, other times of the day I cant keep the signal and it chopps and pixelates, so plan on switching to satalite. -- »KmanScooters.com Home of Wisconsin's Most Affordable Cars, Motorcycles and Scooters | |
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 |  Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Warmachine99 I have Time Warner Cable, and the antenna is only used when the cable goes out. I dont like the look of Sat dishes on other peoples houses, so on mine it would really distress me.
I get the chops, pixelates and signal losses on cable as well, so its not just OTA that has problems. | |
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 tschmidtPremium,MVM join:2000-11-12 Milford, NH kudos:5 Reviews:
·Fairpoint Commun..
·Hollis Hosting
| Signal Strength modeling The model used by the FCC to create equivalent coverage area compared to analog TV is not terribly accurate so in general DTV coverage area is smaller then analog. In addition DTV "suffers" from cliff effect. With analog picture quality slowly degrades with more and more snow. With digital it is perfect, if signal strength drops below critical threshold viewer experiences picture freeze or breakup, if signal drops even a little more no picture/sound at all.
If you want to learn more about expected signal strength in you specific location check out TVFOOL site. I've found it more useful then CEA AntennaWeb site.
If you are interested in the gory details of modeling: »www.tvantenna.tv/papers/dtv%20co···tion.pdf
Something else to keep in mind is situation changes Feb 18 next year. Once analog goes dark some DTV stations move to other channel and/or change TX power.
/tom | |
|
 Reviews:
·MSN
·Brand X Internet
·DSL EXTREME
4 edits | The whole thing is a JOKE! I am in the TV business and I've been predicting this kind of fiasco from day one. I live smack dab in the middle of Hollywood-hardly the boonies, yet can not receive local digital signals well without a $75.00 pre-amplified antenna in my living room. Even worse, I have to get up and move around the antenna every time I change channels. With analog, the 10 dollar rabbit ears worked JUST FINE in a single position!
COFDM worked MUCH BETTER with indoor antennas. At the Las Vegas NAB Convention in 1999 both 8-VSB and COFDM were being demonstrated using local off air signals. The 8-VSB setup required an outdoor antenna, 600 feet of coax and a preamp. The COFDM signal came in JUST FINE using a Radio Shack dual bow tie indoor antenna (why Radio Shack discontinued this great antenna I have no clue), located IN THE BOOTH!
Of course, the FCC screwed up (which is par for the course for them-after all there NEVER has been a Commissioner that is/was an engineer-they're all lawyers!) and picked the INFERIOR system-and for it to work properly, I'm going to have to put up an outdoor antenna...while rabbit ears worked perfectly with analog.
After all, I'm 18 miles from the TV transmitters!
PS: Of course, many of you don't know that come Feb 9th, many DTV stations won't be receivable any more. Why? because many TV stations plan to go back to their old VHF channels-and most people who have indoor antennas have bought UHF only models! These antennas won't RECEIVE VHF signals worth a damn! | |
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 |  | | Re: The whole thing is a JOKE! Wow your in hollywood, Omg. | |
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 |  tschmidtPremium,MVM join:2000-11-12 Milford, NH kudos:5 Reviews:
·Fairpoint Commun..
·Hollis Hosting
| Re: The whole thing is a JOKE! said by qworster: COFDM worked MUCH BETTER with indoor antennas. That may be the case but as someone living in fringe area I'm more concerned with outdoor reception. In your case Im sure it is frustrating to have to install an outdoor antenna or use a preamp on your existing indoor antenna. However for those of us already using an outdoor antenna we need to best signal possible. Gain for reasonable sized UHF antenna is 16 dBi. If that is not enough we are dead in the water.
For interested reader here is the FCC report evaluating CODFM and 8-VSB. I assume you are familiar with it. »www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_···eprt.pdf »www.hdtvmagazine.com/archives/ms···sum.html
Given TV noise figure (based on various tests) is in the 6-8 dB range and good preamp has a noise figure of 2-3 dB just adding a preamp to an indoor urban antenna may improve signal at receiver enough eliminating need for an outdoor antenna. In addition newer tuners do a much better job dealing with multipath. That is a big problem here in rural New England and I assume in most urban areas due to signal reflection from buildings.
Bottom line all standards are tradeoffs of many competing things both technical and business. I think you overstate the advantage of COFDM vs 8-VSB. At this point it is a moot point. 8-VSB is the standard. Broadcasters, manufactures, and customers need to make it work.
/tom | |
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 elray join:2000-12-16 Santa Monica, CA Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·RoadRunner Cable
| Rural? We have serious problems with OTA reception, right here in the city, using the most expensive Winegard antenna on a rotor mount on the roof.
We're going to wait until February, when the frequencies switch again, before spending more money to fix it. Until then, several major broadcasters are simply unavailable.
The coupon program should never have happened, but as it did, it should cover antennas and some hybrid with Dish/Directv for "free locals". | |
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 MarkyDPremium join:2002-08-20 Oklahoma City, OK | Mustang, OK I live in Yukon, OK, a suburb in the West Oklahoma City area. I had to get the biggest antenna I could find to pick up all the digital channels. The towers are only 17 miles away. -- MCSE, ACSA, and a lot more | |
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 | | channel 2 HD is hard to get in parts of chicago as they have channel 2 HD is hard to get in parts of Chicago as they have a weak single | |
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 |  | | Re: channel 2 HD is hard to get in parts of chicago as they have said by Joe12345678:channel 2 HD is hard to get in parts of Chicago as they have a weak single They're transmitting at low power on a antenna much inferior to the monster they use for analog. Don't worry - somebody finally got some common sense in the WBBM engineering department and they'll be moving up the band come February ! -- 3500/512 5.7 GHz Motorola Canopy Wireless; FoxValley.net "Peace through superior firepower" | |
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 | | reception It's been several years since people in my area have been able to get anything through rabbit ears. There was one tower, but they shut it down years ago. Out of range for anything else. So, satellite or nothing, tough choice. Same with cell service, almost non-existent. | |
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 KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK | Need a better antenna. They simply need a better antenna, methinks. | |
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 bentand IngaPremium join:2004-10-04 Loveland, CO Reviews:
·Comcast
| Call your local cableco Asks the group: "How did the FCC and NTIA spend over $1 billion dollars and counting on the DTV campaign without actually testing the converter box and antenna configurations, especially in rural fringe areas?" At the behest of cablecos and IPTV providing telcos, of course. -- »www.lp.org/issues/family-budget
"That government is best which governs least" - Thoreau | |
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 Reviews:
·Verizon Wireless..
·Comcast
| Angry First they tell us we can't get high speed internet... now they take away our T.V.
Quite frankly if I wasent a hillbilly I wouldnt have a amplified... 2nd biggest T.V. antenna radioshack makes in my backyard on a pole... LMAO...
So either way I am unaffected by the switch because not only can I get all the stations I did analog but more. I also have cable too so once again there is always a back up. | |
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