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Comments on news posted 2008-09-25 13:34:57: It appears that ISPs are trying to pre-empt Congressional efforts to create a new law that would make the sale of user browsing data opt-in only. ..

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cahiatt
Premium
join:2001-03-21
Smyrna, GA
Makes sense....

Get congress off your back for now, change your mind later when nobody is looking....


Rob
In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA
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Kendall, FL
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said by cahiatt See Profile :

Get congress off your back for now, change your mind later when nobody is looking....
This is the best time to do it - all of our politicians are too "busy" with the economy.


SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
Its easier to bait-n-switch than to undermine new laws in the future.


nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
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join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
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·Speakeasy

You Can Be sure...

...that the proposed opt-in will be buried on page 6 of your monthly bill and that payment of your bill is your consent to monitoring.
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AVonGauss
Premium,MVM
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL


1 edit
Wow...

Congress is considering doing something helpful and useful for the people? Are you sure the facts of the article are correct?

Levity aside, why the hell do ISPs believe they have a right to sell our usage data? Does that mean a telco or cell provider should be able to sell the numbers you call, how often and then target you for ads?

Your call will be connected shortly after a message from our sponsor... Wait, I am the customer, I am the sponsor. If anybody should be selling the data and receiving the profit, it is me.

Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

said by AVonGauss See Profile :

Levity aside, why the hell do ISPs believe they have a right to sell our usage data? Does that mean a telco or cell provider should be able to sell the numbers you call, how often and then target you for ads?
Why you lowly peon don't you understand that the Almighty Dollar is their God.


TKJunkMail
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1 edit
reply to AVonGauss
said by AVonGauss See Profile :

Levity aside, why the hell do ISPs believe they have a right to sell our usage data? Does that mean a telco or cell provider should be able to sell the numbers you call, how often and then target you for ads?
How about because every industry you do business with does the same thing. Except for video rental places and health providers, which were prohibited by specific laws, your electric company, bank, loan company, electronic store, department store, etc all can sell your info to others for advertising purposes. They all allow OPT_OUT. But none of them have an OPT-IN policy.
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Dogfather
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join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
They've proven they can't conduct themselves property

Which is why such a law is absolutely necessary.


JohnQPublic
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join:2002-03-22
Xanadu

reply to TKJunkMail
Re: Wow...

said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

How about because every industry you do business with does the same thing.
Well all righty then. Let's board the "if every other industry does it it must be kosher" train and ride on down the tracks. We know when we let industry leaders do as they wish it all works out just swell.
--
Sarah Palin - Witchhunter approved!


dadkins
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join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast

VZ, AT&T, and TW...

No shocker for AT&T, but VZ and TW.

Yeah, this is good idea!
They sell my info, *I* should get something out of it besides ads.
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera

jester121
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Lake Zurich, IL
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·ViaTalk

reply to Rob
Re: Makes sense....

said by Rob See Profile :

This is the best time to do it - all of our politicians are too "busy" with the economy getting re-elected.
Fixed it for you.


telcolackey
The Truth? You can't handle the truth

join:2007-04-06
Death Valley, CA
Switch to FiOS!!!

...wait a minute, I must be in the wrong rant thread.


TKJunkMail
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2 edits
reply to dadkins
Re: VZ, AT&T, and TW...

said by dadkins See Profile :

No shocker for AT&T, but VZ and TW.

Yeah, this is good idea!
They sell my info, *I* should get something out of it besides ads.
Well these companies make a good point:

quote:
And finally, all participants -- including ad networks, search engines, Internet-service providers and others -- need to commit to those principles and agree to certification of compliance by an independent third-party. "We believe companies engaged in online behavioral advertising should agree to participate in a credible, third-party certification process to demonstrate to consumers that they are doing what they say with regard to the collection and use of information for online behavioral advertising," he said.
That these rules being considered by Congress should apply to all web sites as well as ISPs. Microsoft, Google, Yahoo, BBR, etc should also have to do the same thing - make use of user interaction OPT-IN. Most web sites don't even have an OPT-OUT policy, let alone an OPT-IN one.

Why should data collection & ad targeting laws be applied to ISPs and not also all the web sites as well? After all, use of an ISP is just as voluntary as is use of a web site or search engine.

I notice that some of those supporting laws curtailing ISP data collection options are the same ones that would benefit from less competition from ISPs - MS, Google, Yahoo, etc. The drafts of the proposed law do not include web sites and search engines. This looks like just more of the same - don't want to compete - so get laws that only apply to your competitors.
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tshirt
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join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
·Comcast

How about......

Both a legally binding opt-in AND
" all participants -- including ad networks, search engines, Internet-service providers and others -- need to commit to those principles and agree to certification of compliance by an independent third-party."
So if you choose to opt-in you KNOW they won't abuse the agreement


insomniac84

join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN
If wallstreet taught us anything...

It's that if their isn't a law from stopping a company from doing something that will make them money, they will do it. Maybe the banking crisis will be used as leverage to get this law passed and net neutrality laws passed.


funchords
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reply to TKJunkMail
Re: Wow...

said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

because every industry you do business with does the same thing. Except for video rental places
Is that so? Is that a federal law?
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funchords
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reply to dadkins
Re: VZ, AT&T, and TW...

said by dadkins See Profile :

No shocker for AT&T, but VZ and TW.
Not a shocker for VZ and TW. No company, no matter how fantastically benevolent or innocent, will ever tell the government that they need a regulation that restricts their future behavior.
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asdfdfdfdfdfdf

@Level3.net

reply to TKJunkMail
I'm not opposed to rules being in effect for web sites as well, nor am I opposed to rules being in effect for companies such as google that are in a more unique and powerful position than the average web site. There need to be boundaries and norms set across the board.

Still we shouldn't blur a major distinction. Everything that you do or see or go to online has to pass through your isp so they are the one entity that is in a position to know everything that you do online and track every move you make. Although they say they won't do so they also are in a unique position to be able to personally identify you and tie everything that you do to your name, address etc.
This makes the situation for isps particularly dangerous and therefore they need to be a greater focus than the millions of websites that are out there.


TKJunkMail
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2 edits
reply to funchords
Re: Wow...

said by funchords See Profile :

said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

because every industry you do business with does the same thing. Except for video rental places
Is that so? Is that a federal law?
Yes
»epic.org/privacy/vppa/

The HIPAA Act provides the same kind of specific privacy for health providers and insurers. Doctors, dentists, pharmacies, health insurers, hospitals, etc.
»www.hhs.gov/ocr/hipaa/
»aspe.hhs.gov/admnsimp/pl104191.htm
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funchords
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reply to TKJunkMail
Re: VZ, AT&T, and TW...

quote:
And finally, all participants -- including ad networks, search engines, Internet-service providers and others -- need to commit to those principles and agree to certification of compliance by an independent third-party. "We believe companies engaged in online behavioral advertising should agree to participate in a credible, third-party certification process to demonstrate to consumers that they are doing what they say with regard to the collection and use of information for online behavioral advertising," he said.
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

That these rules being considered by Congress should apply to all web sites as well as ISPs. Microsoft, Google, Yahoo, BBR, etc should also have to do the same thing - make use of user interaction OPT-IN. Most web sites don't even have an OPT-OUT policy, let alone an OPT-IN one.
I think that alike rules ought to apply to alike operations. For example, the rules about the www.verizon.net portal ought to be the same as for any other similar site on the net. It doesn't matter that Verizon is an ISP -- the rules for website data ought to be the same.

In so much as Verizon is also an ISP (a traffic carrier between the websites and the users), I think that the rules governing ISPs ought to match the rules for other ISPs -- but any increased scrutiny to ISPs would only apply to that traffic-carriage function. Their website wouldn't be any more regulated because they're also an ISP.

Right now, one of the big problems is that some ISPs are covered under the Communications Act, some under the Cable Act, and some conveyances aren't clearly under either. The ECPA, which was written to cover electronic communications, still is clouded in some of these cases!
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