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Comments on news posted 2008-10-02 11:49:54: Yesterday, we directed your attention to a report that stated Cox is using a "three strikes and you're out" policy to disconnect users who receive multiple DMCA copyright warnings. ..

page: 1 · 2 · 3 · next


Matt3
All noise, no signal.
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12

2 recommendations

I like this

I think this is a perfectly acceptable solution. If you STILL don't get it after 3 warnings ... you need to be removed from the internet to protect you from yourself because you are an idiot.
--
Linux Haters Unite!


FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 recommendation

said by Matt3:

I think this is a perfectly acceptable solution. If you STILL don't get it after 3 warnings ... you need to be removed from the internet to protect you from yourself because you are an idiot.
A common sense attitude. The ISP has every right to police their network, even if they are not required to do so by law.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?


swhitney2003
Premium
join:2003-06-13
NH
reply to Matt3
Agreed. Users get ample warning before getting booted. I'm not too keen on the walled garden though (especially if you have viruses and need to download an AV). I think a warning letter (3) should be enough to inform users about the activity going on.


FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 edit
said by swhitney2003:

Agreed. Users get ample warning before getting booted. I'm not too keen on the walled garden though (especially if you have viruses and need to download an AV). I think a warning letter (3) should be enough to inform users about the activity going on.
A walled garden may be the only way to get people to act. Many users would just ignore letters, especially where a virus/spam problem is concerned and not a DMCA problem. When internet access is cut off, people will then act.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?


roosr

join:2008-04-23
Middletown, PA

Nothing like the coporations turning into parents

Personally, I'm glad that COX (Should be COCKS, dealt with them in Cleveland, Oh and would never do THAT again!) is not available in my area. This type of "proactive" approach to piracy is nothing more than a company "bending over" to the wishes of corporations clinging to failed business models.

The only way to get through the heads of the fat-cats in these situations is to change your providers, and that's it. Nothing else will make a difference, and that's the only language they understand. Until someone stands up against it, and changes providers, it'll be looked at as acceptable.

These bandwidth caps, policing of your internet activities, and whatever else draconian policies they decide to put into place are just meager attempts to avoid building the infrastructure necessary to provide adequate service to their customers. It's the reason that I switched to DSL because of the policies that Comcast implemented. I don't care if I don't use the 250gb cap per month, but I'm not taking a chance, because things change, games come out, services get started, and that eats up bandwidth.

Sat-TV and DSL FTW (until FiOS is available).


swhitney2003
Premium
join:2003-06-13
NH
reply to FFH

Re: I like this

If they get 3 letters and ignore them all, that is there prerogative. When there connection is cut off due to the fact they ignored the letters, then they will react. I have nothing against the walled garden, just a speculation. It is in COX's best interest to do so to keep customers rather than booting them all I suppose.


Deft
Stros in '08
Premium
join:2003-09-06
Grand Forks, ND
Reviews:
·Midcontinent Com..

I've gotten one of these..

I recieved one of these letters about 1yr ago.. and they made me fill out a "never do this again" letter.. it was quite fun.. but i lived in Vegas at the time.. and went to a public torrent site.. never again will i get a movie from a public torrent site..


gomer1701ems

join:2001-08-23
Minneapolis, MN

Old letter

My monitor isn't the best, but I think there is a copyright on the picture of the DMCA letter. Can anybody tell me what it is? It must be quite old, as nobody uses Kazaa, Morpheus, or Grokster. Time to update it, methinks.
--
"Don't argue with stupid people; they will beat you with experience."

AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL

2 recommendations

They dont' get it...

To MattE, okay, if you had Cox, I would send a DMCA violation notification to Cox reporting you as a violator of my copyright. My copyright you might ask? Nah, doesn't exist, but they don't know that and they don't have the necessary resources to validate the claim that you are violating my copyright. Now, hypothetically, you're really annoying me on one of the boards or I know you personally, I decide to send two more notices. Whoops, you're Internet is now cut-off. Okay, you can live without Internet for whatever period they decide - wait, you telecommute for a living...

AT&T and Cox, who are now crossing the threshold from a service provider to a content provider / manager by making judgments as to what or what does not go through their network should loose their DCMA protection status, period. The purpose of the DCMA violation notification mechanism was to allow for an ISP to cooperate with a copyright holder in good faith and a possible copyright violation by notifying the end customer early on in the process that a possible violation may exist prior to official legal action. If the copyright holder believes they copyright is still infringed upon after the notification, they have plenty of recourse, its called the legal system.

SilverSurfer1

join:2007-08-19

2 recommendations

Cox: Screwing you over so the *AAs Don't Have To

No matter how much corporate fellatio the fanbois -both paid and volunteers on this site- perform, the fact that Cocks voluntarily terminates people based on shoddy allegations of copyright infringment is BS. Cox rightfully belongs in the same stink pile as Comcrap for this kind of nonsense.

thevorpal1

join:2007-11-16
Alexandria, VA

1 recommendation

reply to FFH

Re: I like this

said by FFH:

said by swhitney2003:

Agreed. Users get ample warning before getting booted. I'm not too keen on the walled garden though (especially if you have viruses and need to download an AV). I think a warning letter (3) should be enough to inform users about the activity going on.
A walled garden may be the only way to get people to act. Many users would just ignore letters, especially where a virus/spam problem is concerned and not a DMCA problem. When internet access is cut off, people will then act.
Then write it into law. I don't want pseudo-laws being established between corporations based on what they want/don't want.

Or would you prefer to be regulated by a corporation in which you have no representation?


FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
said by thevorpal1:

said by FFH:

said by swhitney2003:

Agreed. Users get ample warning before getting booted. I'm not too keen on the walled garden though (especially if you have viruses and need to download an AV). I think a warning letter (3) should be enough to inform users about the activity going on.
A walled garden may be the only way to get people to act. Many users would just ignore letters, especially where a virus/spam problem is concerned and not a DMCA problem. When internet access is cut off, people will then act.
Then write it into law. I don't want pseudo-laws being established between corporations based on what they want/don't want.

Or would you prefer to be regulated by a corporation in which you have no representation?
Then don't do business with them.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?


Metatron2008
Premium
join:2008-09-02
united state

1 edit

Waaa! I'm a pirate, I should do what I want!

Plz don't allow the big baddies like Cox to stop me! I should be allowed to steal from everyone like the people above are crying to do!

BTW, this is highly sarcastic.

Any of you pirates read your acceptable use policy lately? Any ISP has the RIGHT to terminate you for piracy.

AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL
Funny, but what you are missing is, you haven't been confirmed to be a "pirate" of anything. Somebody made a claim about you, could have been false, or they could have just wrote down the wrong IP number.


Metatron2008
Premium
join:2008-09-02
united state

1 edit
Ip number is a horrible way to go by tracking a pirate.

But yeah, if you're 'accidentally' targetted as a pirate 3 times, you can't bs your way out of it.

People can say you did something when ya didn't once. Once it hits more then twice something screwy is up.

AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL

1 edit
What did you say your IP was again?

Doing a Google search for DCMA False Claims leads to about 40,000 results currently, the first one being an organization that claims 4,000 videos on YouTube violate "their" copyright.

thevorpal1

join:2007-11-16
Alexandria, VA

2 recommendations

reply to FFH

Re: I like this

said by FFH:

Then don't do business with them.
Except that these companies enjoy the benefit of limited monopolies via the agreements they have put together with the various local governments.

If they had no franchise agreements, or were not protected from competition I would agree with you. However by accepting that protection they have also assumed the responsibility of providing the service to the community.

Because they have limited the rights of the users to seek out a competing service (another cable company), they have assumed implied responsibilities even if those were not codified explicitly into the agreement.


Metatron2008
Premium
join:2008-09-02
united state

1 edit
reply to AVonGauss

Re: Waaa! I'm a pirate, I should do what I want!

666.666.666.666

Yeah, I'm THAT awesome.

Well like I said, 3 strikes is a great policy. I honestly can't see a person being called a pirate 3 times without being one, unless someone is out to get them.

But then, if someone is out to get ya, they'll do anything...


FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
reply to thevorpal1

Re: I like this

said by thevorpal1:

said by FFH:

Then don't do business with them.
Except that these companies enjoy the benefit of limited monopolies via the agreements they have put together with the various local governments.

If they had no franchise agreements, or were not protected from competition I would agree with you.
However by accepting that protection they have also assumed the responsibility of providing the service to the community.

Because they have limited the rights of the users to seek out a competing service (another cable company), they have assumed implied responsibilities even if those were not codified explicitly into the agreement.
Franchises became non-exclusive by law years ago. So no cable company is protected from competition.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?


pokesph
It Is Almost Fast
Premium
join:2001-06-25
Sacramento, CA
kudos:1

better question..

A better question in all of this.. Are the DMCA notices being forwarded to the user (as required by law) so that a user can counter-notice/dispute/respond to them? Nothing I saw in that letter or the reports seen online has mentioned that..


MagicMud

@shawcable.net
reply to Metatron2008

Re: Waaa! I'm a pirate, I should do what I want!

See the problem with the DMCA is it isn't based on you actually commiting a copyright violation though. DMCA can be faked, or falsed.

Another problem is where do you draw the line in the copyright then? Is viewing a website that has borrowed a copyright image make you in violation as well? The fact is DMCA's can be sent out even if there would be no legal case against you which is why it is wrong to cut off someone's internet.

I agree with the principals behind what Cox is doing but the detection of the piracy needs to be actually accurate and something that could actually stand up in court before I am happy with the policy


S_engineer
Premium
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL

1 recommendation

reply to FFH

Re: I like this

" Cox was among the first ISPs to use malware walled gardens to cordon infected users off from the Internet at large until they've cleaned their PC." .....is a scary premise. Who provides the list of malware?...and why wasn't AOL on that list?...and why didn't they protect users from downloading malware in the first place?

This is bad precedent!
--
The "Lifetime" channel is responsible for 83% of all divorces...Robert Ginty

SilverSurfer1

join:2007-08-19
reply to Metatron2008

Re: Waaa! I'm a pirate, I should do what I want!

said by Metatron2008:

I honestly can't see a person being called a pirate 3 times without being one, unless someone is out to get them.
1. Pirate!
2. Pirate!
3. Pirate!

Boom. Done. You're a pirate. I'm sending your ISP a takedown notice for violating my copyright. Hope you enjoy your dial up, pirate.

thevorpal1

join:2007-11-16
Alexandria, VA
reply to FFH

Re: I like this

said by FFH:

Franchises became non-exclusive by law years ago. So no cable company is protected from competition.
I will accept that for new builds. But you still run into the problem that since no one is ever dealing with a clean slate (Brand new commmunity, no infrastructure currently built) Due to the protections that existed, buildouts have been stopped. Even though the protections have been repealed, the effects remain.

However, I'll ignore that and cut directly to the issue.

I'll even assume that there are two identical internet providers in the area. Company A, and Company B. If Company A, and Company B both decide to implement a policy that would remove a person's ability to communicate on the internet for any reason that is not mandated by law, then it is in effect a direct infringement on the person's freedom of expression.

Because these companies can effectively enact policies that go beyond what is required by legislation in an effort to serve as a policing body, they are attempting to expand their jurisdiction in a manner that is hostile to the People of that community.

The basis by which policy must be evaluated is not 'what is this policy intended to do', but 'what would this policy do if abused'.

hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

1 edit
it is not a freedom of expression to steal. If you steal you should be punished. COX is doing that by kicking them off their network which they have every right not to do business with anyone just like you have the right not to do business with them.

And as always; if you don't like the way these companies do business you are free to call DSLExtreme's parent company and pay them $200 and become a DSL Reseller nationwide and you can compete and not have these polices but i'll give you 3 months if that long and you'd be putting those same policies into affect on your own network; especially if the RIAA or the MPAA come knocking on your door.

thevorpal1

join:2007-11-16
Alexandria, VA
reply to SilverSurfer1

Re: Waaa! I'm a pirate, I should do what I want!

said by SilverSurfer1:

said by Metatron2008:

I honestly can't see a person being called a pirate 3 times without being one, unless someone is out to get them.
1. Pirate!
2. Pirate!
3. Pirate!

Boom. Done. You're a pirate. I'm sending your ISP a takedown notice for violating my copyright. Hope you enjoy your dial up, pirate.
Maybe it needs to be 3 unique complaints?

PIRATE!!!

Now that's two unique complaints, I believe the proper term that they use in some boards... For the lulz.

thevorpal1

join:2007-11-16
Alexandria, VA

1 recommendation

reply to hottboiinnc

Re: I like this

said by hottboiinnc:

it is not a freedom of expression to steal. If you steal you should be punished. COX is doing that by kicking them off their network which they have every right not to do business with anyone just like you have the right not to do business with them.

And as always; if you don't like the way these companies do business you are free to call DSLExtreme's parent company and pay them $200 and become a DSL Reseller nationwide and you can compete and not have these polices but i'll give you 3 months if that long and you'd be putting those same policies into affect on your own network; especially if the RIAA or the MPAA come knocking on your door.
I do run my own network, and I do not enforce such policies. I pass on DMCA notices as required by law, if I try to do more, then I tread into areas which may violate my status as a common carrier.

Should people who violate copyrights be punished? Yes.

Is COX an investigative body? No
Is COX a police force? No
Is COX the entity initiating the DMCA takedown request? No

Is COX altering their use policy to apply non legislated punishments and expanding the scope of copyright law?
Yes.


wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

1 recommendation

reply to thevorpal1
said by thevorpal1:

Because these companies can effectively enact policies that go beyond what is required by legislation in an effort to serve as a policing body, they are attempting to expand their jurisdiction in a manner that is hostile to the People of that community.

Thats a bad example. Look at another way, millions of people ride buses/trains everyday. Almost every bus/train has rules that seek to reduce rowdy behavior. Customers that are really loud and cause problems for other riders will be kicked off the bus/train. There is certainly no law against being rowdy, however the rider agrees to abide by certain rules when he/she gets on the bus/train. The situation at hand is no different, by using their (Cox) service you agree to abide by their rules.
--
If history teaches us anything, it teaches that simple-minded appeasement or wishful thinking about our adversaries is folly.
-Ronald Reagan-


funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6
reply to gomer1701ems

Re: Old letter

said by gomer1701ems:

My monitor isn't the best, but I think there is a copyright on the picture of the DMCA letter. Can anybody tell me what it is? It must be quite old, as nobody uses Kazaa, Morpheus, or Grokster. Time to update it, methinks.
Yeah, it's old. © dates are 1998-2004
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
More features, more fun, Join BroadbandReports.com, it's free...


funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6
reply to thevorpal1

Re: I like this

said by thevorpal1:

said by FFH:

said by swhitney2003:

Agreed. Users get ample warning before getting booted. I'm not too keen on the walled garden though (especially if you have viruses and need to download an AV). I think a warning letter (3) should be enough to inform users about the activity going on.
A walled garden may be the only way to get people to act. Many users would just ignore letters, especially where a virus/spam problem is concerned and not a DMCA problem. When internet access is cut off, people will then act.
Then write it into law. I don't want pseudo-laws being established between corporations based on what they want/don't want.

Or would you prefer to be regulated by a corporation in which you have no representation?
If my computer is spewing spam and virii, then disconnecting it is completely expected. This practice goes back decades and its the right thing to do.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
More features, more fun, Join BroadbandReports.com, it's free...