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Comments on news posted 2008-10-28 09:37:45: If you cover the tech industry, your inbox has probably been assaulted over the last week with press releases from the National Association of Broadcasters (NAB), who are unleashing the power of their lobbying apparatus upon Washington and the press .. ..

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ropeguru
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join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

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Re: support from scofflaws?

said by 88615298:

But go ahead and bash Obama.
Thank you. I will exercise my First Amendment right.

sempergoofy
Premium Member
join:2001-07-06
Smyrna, GA

sempergoofy

Premium Member

Dolly just wants the best "technoogy"

Click for full size
Technoogy?
Either she needs to spell check, or she wants the best spectrum sensing "technoogy" she can get.

funchords
Hello
MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA

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Re: support from scofflaws?

said by clickie8:

They are not illegal. These are Part-15 devices and require no licensing.
Clickie, these conflicting mics aren't the Part 15 wireless mics. These are the ones lower in the spectrum that do require licenses -- and some operators do have them, but many do not.

knightmb
Everybody Lies
join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN

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said by ropeguru:
said by ArrayList:
said by nasadude:

...widespread, affordable broadband...
what? you have to be kidding...
Not at all... Once Obama is elected, taxes will go up so he can redistribute wealth bring broadband to all.
Ha, taken right from the Republican spin machine, well copied/pasted

Republican tax plan would make more sense if they also included a top level tax CPA for free that would do your taxes every year. Somehow I don't think top companies or private business that make enough to be affected are really worried about the tax increase that much.
knightmb

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Me too with my Icon.

funchords
Hello
MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA

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said by MrMoody:
said by nasadude:

of course the people using wireless mics don't pose a threat to NAB's business like widespread, affordable broadband would.
How does broadband compete with the NAB members' FREE, AD-SUPPORTED service?
If you don't think that the Internet competes with broadcast TV for time and attention, then you're starting the game hopelessly lost.
said by MrMoody:

They are genuinely concerned with interference and loss of spectrum, and with good reason.
?
said by MrMoody:

As far as widespread, affordable broadband goes, this will only be it if you define broadband as wireless dialup. At best it will be a much larger area version of an open WiFi point on a university campus. It will have thousands of users crowded onto a few dozen Mb of available bandwidth. At worst, it will be another overcrowded WiFi with more range (bad), with everyone using it to try to create private links to their office, their buddy's house, etc.
At worst. At best it works great!
said by MrMoody:

And if the cheap devices don't interfere right out of the box (likely), hackers will see to it that they do by using high-gain antennas, boosting power and forcing operation on interfering channels.
I can't say this won't happen sometimes, but by and large people will buy a cheap device and it will either work or not work. Only a teenie-tiny portion have the knowledge or desire to spend significant time and effort on it.
said by MrMoody:

WiMAX is far better, capable of serving broadband to all users and can serve the same purpose WSDs supposedly will.
This is not a choice between WiMAX and WSD.
said by MrMoody:

WSDs have too much likelihood of causing unsolvable problems; we CANNOT allow them.
Sure we can. We allowed cordless phones, and they generally worked. They even worked in several different modes. They even worked even though hackers could modify them.

You're spreading worry.

knightmb
Everybody Lies
join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN

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said by ropeguru:

I wasn't talking only about personal incomes. He stands to raise taxes and put other burdens directly on businesses too. That is where the issue will be in forcing them overseas.
Spin on words, you forgot that the raise on taxes for business can be offset by keeping jobs here, good health insurance for employees, and many other tax breaks/perks for the business that would be in the same tax plan, etc. All of which their Accountant/Tax CPA will know about and certainly use come tax time. You should really read in depth of what both candidates want to do because you are just taking one part "he's going to raise taxes" and applying the chicken little sky falling effect to it.

DavePR
join:2008-06-04
Canyon Country, CA

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Re: Nice choice of spokesperson

So you equate "doing well" with making beaucoups bucks?

I meant that she has had a long career as an artist, composer, actor, producer and philanthropist; and just maybe along the way she's used one or two wireless mics.

Look at Joe Walsh, the consumate burnout, who in real life has an Amateur Extra, the highest FCC ham radio license possible.

»wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp ··· y=893189
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

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Re: support from scofflaws?

said by ropeguru:

said by 88615298:

But go ahead and bash Obama.
Thank you. I will exercise my First Amendment right.
Your right to be ignorant of the facts. I'm not even an Obama supporter, but if you insist calling out Obama you better look at YOUR candidate because he isn't any different despite WTF he says. George Bush Sr said in 1988 "read my lips, no new taxes" them promptly raised them anyways. So sorry if I take McCain's BS with a grain of salt.

funchords
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MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA

1 recommendation

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MVM

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TOPIC: Dolly Parton Hates White Space Broadband
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

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said by knightmb:

Ha, taken right from the Republican spin machine, well copied/pasted

Republican tax plan would make more sense if they also included a top level tax CPA for free that would do your taxes every year. Somehow I don't think top companies or private business that make enough to be affected are really worried about the tax increase that much.
Obama = tax and spend
McCain = borrow from China with interest and spend.

ropeguru
Premium Member
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

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said by 88615298:

said by ropeguru:

said by 88615298:

But go ahead and bash Obama.
Thank you. I will exercise my First Amendment right.
Your right to be ignorant of the facts. I'm not even an Obama supporter, but if you insist calling out Obama you better look at YOUR candidate because he isn't any different despite WTF he says. George Bush Sr said in 1988 "read my lips, no new taxes" them promptly raised them anyways. So sorry if I take McCain's BS with a grain of salt.
That is why Obama is letting all the current tax cuts Bush put in place expire. So I guess some are right as he will not be raising taxes. Another spin on words WhooHoo!!!

MrMoody
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said by funchords:

If you don't think that the Internet competes with broadcast TV for time and attention, then you're starting the game hopelessly lost.
You can't seriously think that a new wireless internet is going to take many eyes away from broadcast that aren't already on the internet some other way.
At worst. At best it works great!
There's no way it CAN "work great," it's physically impossible. It's a poorly thought out model being rammed through by companies who think they can make a killing with wide-area hotspots (maybe) and PAY portable wireless service (definitely). It doesn't have enough bandwidth available to serve the area it would cover with any reasonable broadband.
I can't say this won't happen sometimes, but by and large people will buy a cheap device and it will either work or not work. Only a teenie-tiny portion have the knowledge or desire to spend significant time and effort on it.
It only takes 1 guy in the right spot to cause a problem for someone else, a problem they shouldn't by all rights have to have, and with DTV won't even likely suspect the source of his trouble.

How many cantennas do you think are out there being used to steal WiFi? And they had to build that antenna, with WSD they will be able to walk into Radio Shack and buy a $40 yagi. It also only takes 1 hacker to hack the firmware and release it, then every pirate wannabe on the internet has it with NO effort.
This is not a choice between WiMAX and WSD.
Says you. They both will provide the same service (or so the WIA claims: this is a lie of course), but WiMAX can do it much better without destroying free TV.
Sure we can. We allowed cordless phones, and they generally worked. They even worked in several different modes. They even worked even though hackers could modify them.
Cordless phones are much harder to hack than a computer network device (hardware vs soft/firmware), they aren't operating in the TV bands and there's not much incentive for anyone to boost the signal. Apples to oranges. WiFi already runs in some of the cordless phone bands. WiFi is hacked routinely. Luckily (or rather due to existing rules putting them where they are in the spectrum), they don't cause problems with other services, only each other.
MrMoody

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Re: that's not a picture of Dolly

LOL, good spot.

NetAdmin1
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Re: Nice choice of spokesperson

said by DavePR:

So you equate "doing well" with making beaucoups bucks?
Most people equate "doing well" with being financially well off.
amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22

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Re: support from scofflaws?

said by nasadude:

it's funny how the NAB is enlisting the support of all the groups that illegally use unlicensed wireless mics.
What I think is funny is that it's supposed to be persuasive that a small, niche use should stand in the way of widespread public benefit.

I understand it's subject to debate whether whitespace broadband will be widespread. But, the potential is that it could benefit every household. That's hard to compare to a relative handful of people with a special use.

Mark
nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD

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Re: so apparently when money doesn't get the job done...

and if that doesn't work, the next step is to say white spaces broadband will spread child pornography - that should stop WSD in it's tracks
Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

3 edits

Sammer

Member

Untrue Statement by WSD engineers.

"While most engineers we've spoken to in the industry do admit that White Space will be tricky to implement (the initial low power of devices in particular may hamper usefulness) most agree that after half a decade of debating the idea that it's time to at least give it a shot." These are not low power devices in relation to Wi-Fi. Even 40 milliwatts at TV frequencies will have considerably more range than Wi-Fi. For their claimed intended purpose 10 milliwatts on adjacent channels and 50 milliwatts on non-adjacent channels for unlicensed mobile white space devices would probably be adequate and would certainly reduce any unintentional interference.
Some of the WSD proponents have made it very clear they want all of TV channels 21-36,38-51 eventually. They won't say this but the way to accomplish that is to make sure the devices have enough power to interfere. Why is there such an insistence on such an aggressive start to WSDs? It will be impossible to get rid of any such devices that interfere once they're out there in numbers but it will always be possible to increase the power of future devices if the technology to diminish interference improves.
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
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join:2005-05-20

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Re: support from scofflaws?

Watch what you say about "so called" disabled people especially in responding to a post from a self described disabled vet. For what ever reason he's a DV, they pay a lot more than any tax can do by serving in the military.. which by the way, has protected your rights to spout off like an ass as you did. Served in the military have you? (Please don't answer yes.. I already know the answer because you wouldn't have posted such trash even though I DO agree on you with point about lazy adults.)

And mods, trust me, I'm being VERY nice on this one and biting my tongue as a Iraq War 1 vet.

DavePR
join:2008-06-04
Canyon Country, CA

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DavePR

Member

White Space Devices won't work

In big cities there are too many TV stations to be able to find interference-free spectrum. In rural areas they would cause way too much interference to weak TV signals from the big cities. Bill Gates and Google will have to go elsewhere besides UHF 470-698 mHz. I suggest they try 54-72, 72-88 MHz. This propagates better than UHF anyway.
wispalord
join:2007-09-20
Farmington, MO

wispalord

Member

ummm

like this whole point is dsl/cable dont want a new point of access to the home in rural areas, cause they know THEY WILL NEVER be able to compette and it just breaks there heart, im betting the 700mhz will be fixed like current wispa 900mhz instalations.

MrMoody
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Re: White Space Devices won't work

said by DavePR:

Bill Gates and Google will have to go elsewhere besides UHF 470-698 mHz. I suggest they try 54-72, 72-88 MHz. This propagates better than UHF anyway.
After the transition, there will still be a couple DTV channels there, ironically due to no UHF or VHF-high channels being available in their area. Many DTV transmitters are operating in the (auctioned off) 700 MHz band now. What white space again?
chriskern
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Hudson, FL

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Re: support from scofflaws?

BINGO!!!!! Give that man a CIGAR!!!!!

lalalalalalala
@direcpc.com

lalalalalalala

Anon

about poloticians

If Obama will raise taxes to improve broadband and they're such polar opposites that must mean McCain would probably tell the companies to get off their asses and clean up their act(corruption)! He's already going on about the people behind the current finacial crisis and how he's gonna make them pay and we will know their names. If true BRAVO i say.
russotto
join:2000-10-05
West Orange, NJ

russotto

Member

White Space Broadband = no TV

They can't avoid interfering with TV. First, TV tuners have relatively wide front-end filters. So it's not just devices on the channel which cause problems, it's adjacent and in come cases 2nd adjacent channels which cause problems. You can get away with 1st adjacent if the transmitting antennas are co-located and the power of the signal is similar, but that's simply not true with white space devices.

Second, people in these rural areas where this white space broadband stuff is proposed often need to use a pre-amp to get their TV reliably. A pre-amp amplifies across the whole band (or bands). A nearby white space transmitter anywhere within the band will overload the pre-amp and result in loss of reception.

It's just not feasible to run white space devices in the same spectrum as the current TV infrastructure without degrading the latter significantly.

ArrayList
DevOps
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join:2005-03-19
Mullica Hill, NJ

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Re: support from scofflaws?

said by callihn:

said by ArrayList:

considering that I don't pay income taxes(disabled vet pulling disability while I go to school on the post 9/11 GI bill »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Po ··· _of_2008) i dont give a rats ass about raising taxes. so if thats what it takes to get more competition in the broadband markets then by all means bring it on!
Interesting, I was thinking that instead of raising taxes we could just make some of these sorry, so called disabled people and some of these lazy adults hiding in school ( that don't know how to use apostrophes ) get out and go to work and contribute to society, instead of just sitting around sucking it dry, then we wouldn't have to ever raise taxes. Since I'm neither I think that would be a grand solution!
i would've thought that serving 8 years in the military with 6 of them being deployed I'd deserve some time off. forgive me for not going right into blue collar work. I kind of want to get into the white collar field myself(hence the college). I will be working. someday. If more people went to college, served, either public office or military, and then went to work we'd have a far more intelligent workforce, probably even more technically skilled.

Giving someone a hard time for going to college is such a bastardly thing to do.
ArrayList

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thanks for the post brother.

DavePR
join:2008-06-04
Canyon Country, CA

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Re: about poloticians

That should be easy for Mr. McCain as most of the perpetrators work for him.

Raioku
@windstream.net

Raioku

Anon

give us whitespace

White space would be really beneficial to alot of people including myself using windstreams low ass internet speed (1.5 mbps) and having to pay some 40-50$ for it. If white space comes download speeds would be rocket fast 30-50 mbps. Dolly parton doesnt even know what the hell she is talking about. I support whitespace 300%. If the people at the FCC have a brain they will allow this. And as for watching TV: look on the internet and I am sure you will find your favorite shows.

Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY

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Re: oh you just wanted an excuse

You don't suppose Dolly objects to the Broad in Broadband.
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