TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
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Avalon, NJ
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4 edits |  Free Press lives in some fantasy world
Free Press:Free Press wants the FCC to require Internet service providers to publicly disclose the minimum broadband speed guaranteed -- not just the maximum potential speed offered. If FCC ordered such a requirement, the ISP response would be something like the following added to the TOS:
quote:
Tier: 8000/1000 kbps
Min download 0 kbps
Max download 8000 kbps
Min upload 0 kbps
Max upload 1000 kbps
The above details supplied courtesy of Free Press & the FCC.
Transparency won't change the facts that NO ISP can guarantee a minimum speed at all locations all the time. And NO ISP will add a minimum speed that isn't qualified by dozens of lines of legalese about "how long an interval" and "acts of god" and "verified by independent 3rd party collection of data", etc.
Face it, we live in a world where people and organizations(like Free Press) sue at the drop of a hat and NO COMPANY is going to leave themselves open to that by not including paragraphs of legalese in any contract with the consumer. Even if an ISP did everything the Free Press wants, they'd still sue the minute any group of users experienced a problem that wasn't 100% perfect all the time.
And if an ISP actually did agree to establish a published and guaranteed minimum speed, we would end up with a bunch of vigilantes using some so-called public interest group supplied measurement tool to flood the network with traffic that would become a self-fulfilling prophecy. In other words, they would cause the problem they are seeking to measure.
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dadkins
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join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
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1 edit |  | 
Almost finished | |
As for BT, do people still use that as a primary source still?
For kicks, I downloaded something via VUZE(Azureus BT client).
I was pulling ~2MB/sec(MegaBytes/second)... yeah I'm on Comcast!
*MY* Comcast connection seems to work ok. 
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tubbynet
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| reply to TKJunkMail
The group is calling upon the FCC, which may be under new leadership shortly, to require that ISPs be completely transparent about exactly how they're throttling, blocking, selling or otherwise tinkering with subscriber traffic. So far, the FCC's refusal to set solid rules on this front has only really helped carriers. While Comcast may have gotten some bad press from their run in with the FCC, they saw no fine, no new rules were constructed, and the door was simply opened for carriers to implement very transparent, but often unreasonable, caps.
no mention of speeds in the article. obviously no corporation is going to explicitly state the speeds that a user is going to get.
however, this group is advocating for transparency in network management techniques when it comes to applications that tend to have high-bandwidth consumption. more and more people are worried about the network neutrality issue because it is only a small jump from forged packets to "tiered" access.
since the isps are not going to provide this information willingly, this group is trying to push them in the direction to do so. i agree that we have become a very litigious society. however, when there is no other way for corporations to be forthright with the consumer, what other action is there?
you of all people should *appreciate* this TK. being the staunch conservative believing in the free market economy, it is the right of the end user to make the decision (with his wallet) what isp to choose. if the isp is not *honest* with the user regarding the network management techniques (maybe honesty is a bit rough, more like open and forthcoming), then the end user can't make the well informed decision that the free market economy hinges on. 
q.
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TKJunkMail
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1 edit | said by tubbynet  :no mention of speeds in the article. obviously no corporation is going to explicitly state the speeds that a user is going to get. They did mention speeds:
»www.freepress.net/node/45366
Free Press wants the FCC to require Internet service providers to publicly disclose the minimum broadband speed guaranteed -- not just the maximum potential speed offered. --
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk? |
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Camelot One
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Sarasota, FL
clubs:
| reply to dadkins
Re: Free Press lives in some fantasy world
said by dadkins :For kicks, I downloaded something via VUZE(Azureus BT client). I was pulling ~2MB/sec(MegaBytes/second)... yeah I'm on Comcast! *MY* Comcast connection seems to work ok. It was my understanding that downloads were working fine, it was the uploads they were jacking with. And since most BT trackers atleast TRY to force you to maintain a 1:1 ratio, not being able to upload eventually cuts you off from the downloads. (not to mention forcing people to be a leech)
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| reply to tubbynet
said by tubbynet :then the end user can't make the well informed decision that the free market economy hinges on. There's always the "try it risk free for 30 days and get your money back if you aren't satisfied" option. If ISPs are falsely advertising their services, then I agree with you that the free market economy can be twisted and the advertiser should be required to rectify the advertisement. Regulations are already in place to prevent/correct false advertising and protect the consumer. |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
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Hercules, CA
·Comcast
1 edit | reply to Camelot One
People talk about this, but I haven't seen it in a while.
Note my upload speed pictured on DUMeter, 430 - 490kbps.
For that particular download, I'm doing ok.
A few days ago, for a different download on VUZE, my upload was 1.2mbps - for quite some time! Even after the download was finished.
As I said, *MY* connection seems to be doing ok.
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
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1 edit | reply to openbox9
said by openbox9 : Regulations are already in place to prevent/correct false advertising and protect the consumer. Yes, some State laws of select States address fraud perpetrated upon consumers, however those laws are only as good as the AG who has the inclination to enforce them.
Case in point: California has both a vigilant AG, as well as a Dept of Consumer Affairs, to protect consumers from questionable business practices, but what about elsewhere. A State like Floriduh has very little consumer protection laws. In those cases, federal law kicks in where State law is silent, and, the federal arm responsible for enforcing that protection is the FTC which, in the past 8 yrs, has been about as useful as tits on a bull.
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA | FWIW, I'm a happy Floridian consumer so Florida's consumer protection laws must not be too bad. |
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
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Stepford, CA
clubs:
| said by openbox9 :FWIW, I'm a happy Floridian consumer so Florida's consumer protection laws must not be too bad. Well gee, I wasn't aware that you spoke for the entire State. |
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Noah Vail
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join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
·RoadRunner Cable
| But what are the accusations based on?
Wasn't the COX throttling charge base on data gathered via Glasnost? There were allegations that Glasnost was providing unreliable results, perhaps misidentifying conditions of packets.
Has Glasnost been vetted since the »Comcast Gets Investigated While Cox Gets Free Pass brought it's accuracy into question?
NV
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openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA | reply to major marco
Re: Free Press lives in some fantasy world
You attempted to do so for two states. |
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Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA
1 edit | reply to TKJunkMail
said by TKJunkMail :Free Press: Free Press wants the FCC to require Internet service providers to publicly disclose the minimum broadband speed guaranteed -- not just the maximum potential speed offered. Transparency won't change the facts that NO ISP can guarantee a minimum speed at all locations all the time. And if an ISP actually did agree to establish a published and guaranteed minimum speed, we would end up with a bunch of vigilantes using some so-called public interest group supplied measurement tool to flood the network with traffic that would become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Well I tend to agree with you I think the minimums would be around 90 kbps. IOW broadband ISPs would only guarantee higher than dialup speeds and even that as you suggest would include legalese disclaimers. |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
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| reply to Noah Vail
Re: But what are the accusations based on?
said by Noah Vail :Wasn't the COX throttling charge base on ... I'm on Cox (1500/256kbs). I've been using BitTorrent all weekend. My upload speed has been consistently in the 20-30kbs range. I changed all the client settings I could find. Disabled my router's QoS.
It's fine with me. I consider BT to be a usefule *low* priority option. I use QoS to throttle it relative to my VOIP and web-browsing activities. I don't fault an ISP for doing the same thing at a higher level.
Mark |
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
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join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
| reply to Camelot One
Re: Free Press lives in some fantasy world
Trackers cannot force you to maintain a 1:1 ratio. They have no control over what your client actually does short of denying you new contacts. With newer clients all the tracker really does is get you up and running quickly.
For instance, using Azureus with Azureus distributed database /decentralized tracker, peer exchange, and the Mainline Distributed Hash Table plugin, all I need is a torrent file or magnet link and if the swarm is of any size at all, within an hour I'm up and running even if the tracker is completely dead. And you say set the private torrent bit? All that will do is bring forth a client that lies to the tracker and ignores the private bit.
Either way it is in the swarms best interest that it continue to upload to a peer that is uploading at a very slow rate than to totally cut off such an individual.
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Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO | reply to tubbynet
Maybe I am crazy, I would have to look it up again, but didnt AT&T just do this very thing?
They provide speed ranges, which include a minimum and a maximum. Or did I misinterpret something? |
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Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
| reply to amigo_boy
Re: But what are the accusations based on?
Of course you don't fault them. It is in YOUR best interest not to.
However, for the rest of the world, we don't want ISP's to do anything with our packets other then send them on at the fastest possible way they can.
You want to let the market to sort it out, then let the market sort it out. They do nothing to impede traffic and be the dumb pipes they are and should be. As their network suffers because they choose not to make improvements customers will go elsewhere and thus relieve the strain on their system. |
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Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
1 edit | Oh that's right.... many customers dont have that luxury (a choice).
So maybe they should be regulated into doing what they should be doing. |
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espaeth
Digital Plumber
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1 edit | reply to major marco
Re: Free Press lives in some fantasy world
said by major marco :A State like Floriduh has very little consumer protection laws. Ironic that would be your example, since it is action brought by the Florida Attorney General that got Comcast to disclose the 250GB caps.
»Comcast Pays Florida $150K For Misleading Consumers |
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