jaminus
join:2004-10-14
Arlington, VA | $ per Mbps keeps going down
Tripling upstream and increasing downstream by over 25% without a corresponding price hike? That's good news for subscribers and strong evidence that cable vs telco competition is at least somewhat beneficial |
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iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
 ·Comcast
 ·Qwest.net
 ·magicjack.com
 ·BeeCreek Communica..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| Beats Qwest
I think it'd be awesome to have VZ DSL here rather than Qwest. Why? 'cuz we have two tiers of dry-line service available:
1.5/896 - $40
5/896 - $47
No overprovisioning so you get at most 85% of the rated speed.
Verizon?
1/384 - At most $26
3/768 - At most $34
7/768 - Around $44
Heck, if they offered FastPath here I might be persuaded to switch from Comcast. It'd cost me $20 less per month than Comcast for only slightly slower downloads (uploads would take a hit though) and no caps...
Instead, I'm stuck with Qwest if I want DSL, Comcast if I want cable (aka something-faster-than-ADSL). All I can say is "meh". |
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SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19 | Not A Chance
Who in his right mind would return to DSL if FIOS is available? FIOS would have to be seriously clusterfuck in order for me to change my mind and go back to piddly overpriced DSL. |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ |  Free bump for lowest tier
My sister, who has the 768/128 tier, will get a free bump to 1000/384. And for browsing and email that will be just fine for her. |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
1 edit | reply to SilverSurfer
Re: Not A Chance
said by SilverSurfer  :Who in his right mind would return to DSL if FIOS is available? FIOS would have to be seriously clusterfuck in order for me to change my mind and go back to piddly overpriced DSL. Did you even read the summary before posting. In case you didn't, here's the relevant part...
quote:
The service is, of course, offered primarily where FiOS isn't, and costs $32.99 for six months and $42.99 thereafter.
And even if FiOS is available in an area, not everyone may qualify (e.g. MDUs, condos, etc) or is ready to drink the FiOS kool-aid.
Edited to fix open quote |
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iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
·Comcast
·Qwest.net
·magicjack.com
·BeeCreek Communica..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| reply to SilverSurfer
This is for markets where FiOS isn't available, mostly. Of course I'd get 20/20 FiOS if it were available but it's not, and even VZ DSL would be an upgrade from the situation right now...
Just wish that VZ had these offerings back home. Parents might be within loop length for the 1024/384 tier and it'd be a LOT better than the wireless setup they have now.
In town, the VZ DSL tiers would be competitive with TWC, who charges $27/month for 768/128, $45/month for 7/512, $35 effectively ($15 with voice, $20 discount) for 3/384. Looks like VZ beats them on every front. |
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MrMoody
But the Grinch ... did Not.
join:2002-09-03
Smithfield, NC
·Embarq
·Skype
·magicjack.com
| said by iansltx :Just wish that VZ had these offerings back home. Parents might be within loop length for the 1024/384 tier and it'd be a LOT better than the wireless setup they have now. Yeah, I'll be impressed when they start rolling it out to new areas. Until then, meh, so what.
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"It is absurd to say that our country can issue $30 million in bonds and not $30 million in currency. Both are promises to pay, but one promise fattens the usurers and the other helps the people."-Thomas Edison |
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GuyInLA
@rr.com | reply to SilverSurfer
"The service is, of course, offered primarily where FiOS isn't, and costs $32.99 for six months and $42.99 thereafter." |
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keyboards
join:2001-02-14
Doylestown, PA
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
| reply to TKJunkMail
Re: Free bump for lowest tier
said by TKJunkMail :My sister, who has the 768/128 tier, will get a free bump to 1000/384. And for browsing and email that will be just fine for her. Same for my 80+ year old mother. She doesn't need Fios speeds or price - especially price since she is on SS.
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REMEMBER: Stupidity should be painful !! |
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Verizon FIOS
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice
| reply to TKJunkMail
said by TKJunkMail :My sister, who has the 768/128 tier, will get a free bump to 1000/384. And for browsing and email that will be just fine for her. She is not the only one, its the most popular tier available in the country. Even cable offers a "lite" tier (similar bandwidth) as a retention offer.
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Комитет государственной безопасности
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Tel Guy
@verizon.com | reply to keyboards
The bump IS free for those on 768K, BUT the 1M offer in the story is for NEW customers. You need to contact the Verizon business office to get an existing 768K account moved to 1M. |
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs: 
| While I respect what they're doing with their FIOS rollout
I can't help but to think that Verizon is a company that's in trouble because of
a)The loss of landlines. And lots of them.
b)The loss of dsl customers. And lots of them.
c)The very high cost of their fios rollout.
d)The time it's going to take to accomplish C.
e)The competition overall from the cable co's...and namely
those who pursue a very aggressive docsis 3.0 rollout.
Think about this mixture of events that is occurring.
How many more things could be going wrong for a company?
Your underlying core business is under unwavering attack causing losses in the millions of customers.
Your primary broadband strategy today is in many cases not even half or 1/3rd the speeds that the competition is offering. The DSL customers you ARE saving are migrating to your own next generation service..ie: cannibalizing on yourself. You're spending 25 Billion dollars on something that is moving along at turtles pace to get rolled out.
And the competition is talking about the end of this year and next..to have their entire network rewired with docsis 3.0. How relevant does that leave what they are doing in the years that will follow? Will people in manhattan be cheering fios in 4 or 5 years when their skyscraper finally gets wired..when they had access to those same speeds years ahead of that? And, by then, the company is very weakened from years of landline losses...years of dsl defections..
high costs of ftth rollouts..and a product that is basically old news. There is a REAL danger here in that
verizon will have to raise their fios costs much higher to just keep up with all this...which could further create problems. On the plus side..there is wireless. But with all the competition growing in that space..how long can that be relied on. And can it be much of an offset to all this anyway?
Lots of questions here I think. Ones that will be addressed in the months and years ahead. I can't help but to think that these are the same type of questions AT&T asked themselves when deciding to NOT proceed with a ftth rollout and saw it as more important to be able to move quicker with at least something. The problem is..that something as we all know..is Uverse. A technologically inferior product by many accounts. And one that doesn't seem to be stemming the tide of their own problems by any means.
It's really going to be interesting from a technical and business perspective to see how this all plays out. It's been a long time since a company with such dominance has faced such a threat to their core business the way that landlines have. Add all these other things to it and it starts to sound like an AOL type of problem. Looking back..I really never considered before how really foolish these telco's were in not recognizing these threats years ago. Back in the later 90's and early 2000's when the cable co's were rewiring America..they just stood by and watched as it happened. They seem to have really missed the boat and misjudged where speeds would go as well as advanced services like HDTV. And just found themselves with a whole lot of old copper in the ground. AT&T meanwhile is the worst of the worst. Just spending all their time trying to buy more companies with old copper in the ground.
And now..suddenly..here they are. And we are. Wanting what we want in terms of services. In the meantime..Comcast really is playing this whole scenario like a stratovarius.
They are in a position to checkmate the telcos. Attack..phone line business. Attack..DSL. Triple play them into remission. Price phone business at zero with triple play bundles. Out do them across the board with HSI speeds.
Wow...is all I can say. This is also one that some cable co's can lose too. Now is the time for Time Warner to be doing the same thing. Why aren't they? Instead..they're talking about 5 gig caps. Wrong move Time Warner. You'll let the telco's dominating queen advance on you. She aint dead yet...by any stretch of the imagination. Cox..is seeing the light. Slower than Comcast..but they're seeing it. Cablevision..the same. Charter..hopefully they find some money to do be able to do anything. They're like the qwest of the cable business. Big ideas and no cash.
Anyways..just my ramblings as I watch it all play out.
Interesting times for sure out there in the land of the giants.
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The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! |
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iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
·Comcast
·Qwest.net
·magicjack.com
·BeeCreek Communica..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| DOCSIS 3 looks to be rolling out only to compete with FiOS, so Verizon can compete where cable companies turn the heat up. On the other end of the spectrum, Verizon's most expensive DSL is cheaper than Comcast's cheapest cable internet-wise. I'll take that. And where VZ rolls out FiOS, they can ramp up speeds to 100+ Mbps, something the cable companies can't match without trashing their networks...and I'm talking about trashing DOCSIS 3 networks. Fiber can beat any other tech if it wants to. Nice, albeit expensive, position for Verizon to take. |
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DoctorDoom
Troll hunter
Premium
join:2006-09-19
Becket, MA
| DSL of any speed would be great
After two years of Hughes, I'd kill the person of Verizon's choice to get them to extend DSL to my location. I'm about 7000 feet too far from the CO, although there's a hub a mile down the road.
As for FIOS, I'll get that after we have a permanent manned base on Mars. |
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sansri88
Go digtal you analog laggards
Premium
join:2005-12-17
New York, NY
clubs: | I live in a suburban environment in a township of 100k people and I can't get DSL.
How sad... |
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tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
·Cox HSI
·Callcentric
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·FrontierNet Intern..
1 edit | reply to Rick
Re: While I respect what they're doing with their FIOS rollout
you raise some valid points - in terms of overall usability, coaxial cable is far more future-proof than old copper - especially as distances from the co/vrad/dslam increase and aren't able to sustain higher speeds required for simultaneous voice/data/video streams.
however, it would be interesting to see what all of the mso's would be doing had fios not popped into the picture. i am not familiar (too much) with comcast, as they don't really serve my area. from what i have read from this site, they are planning to roll out their new 22/5 and 50/5 tiers to a section of their footprint by the end of this year, with full rollouts happening by late 2009/early 2010. i would be willing to bet (dollars to donuts, mind you) that the areas that will see the speed jump first will be areas in which fios is served.
i know that this happens in the northeast us/nova areas served by cox. these areas generally see the lowest prices coupled with the highest speeds usually 6-9 months before the "largest" market (phoenix, i believe) sees any increases. this is not to say that cox/phoenix doesn't upgrade their speed tiers, etc, but when the premium tier in phoenix is only seeing a 15/1.5 tier while those in the northeast are seeing 20/3 speeds, i would care to say that fios has a large part in these speed increases. as dvd536 puts it, the havenots subsidize the haves.
now - those who believe in the free market economy are grinning ear to ear right now, because this is exactly what is *supposed* to happen. competition breeds better pricing/speeds/advantages for the customer at the same or lower prices. but when you have telcos that "cherry-pick" neighborhoods based on profit (which is their right), you will only see growth in those areas, with the rest trickling down when the company feels like it.
as can be evidenced by users here, cable companies have been slow to roll out in areas in which competition is not directly a factor. tw and charter both have users that can only receive a 6/1 (ish) tier as their maximum offered in the area, and they are paying more than i am paying for my 12/768k line (though through a different provider).
you are correct (in my opinion), in stating that verizon may be in some trouble because of the expense of their fiber rollout. had the economy not faultered, times would be easier, but it will be interesting to see how it plays out verizon is in a unique position though, because it can directly compete with cable in terms of voice (if they so choose). while subs may drop the pots/copper service for voice, verizon can compete with someone like comcast in terms of voip over their fiber product. as fiber becomes more ubiquitous, this will become a price contention point.
additionally, as more and more hd offerings are had by the content distributors cable may run into issues with bandwidth concerns and adoption issues. i am unsure of comcast's network, but i know that cox is rapidly pushing for a 1ghz plant upgrade in all markets. this will give them more spectrum and as they slowly phase out analog and move towards sdv, more will be cleared for use in data applications over docsis 3.0. however, this transition will be slow because it will result in added fees (stbs, gateway fees, etc.) for those customers who rely on analog broadcasts over cable and as a result, those subs may jump ship because cable's rates (especially after the latest round of rate hikes) will not be competitive with the likes of satellite or even fta. those who are using fios will not see much of a difference because of the need for the ip stb on every tv anyway. also, if mso's choose to leave the analog and aren't adopting sdv, how will the hd look after compression. mpeg2 may offer some solutions, but will require a new box for every sub (and one can assume a higher fee to offset the cost of these boxes to the cable operator) and some companies may not be able to absorb the initial cost.
we are at an interesting cross-roads here. you do make some valid points, but i take everything that was said with a grain of salt simply because of the industry that you represent (and the company of said industry). fiber and coax still have quite a battle ahead. during this time, those that are served by both technologies will see the benefits, but i'm pretty sure those that don't see any fiber in their future will be left drooling for many years to come.
q.
edited for clarity and typographical errors
--
"The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps, of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to doctrinaire and academic thinkers."
~ Caroll Quigley - Tragedy and Hope |
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:
| reply to iansltx
Docsis 3.0 is slated to be in 20% of homes by years end..and about 100% by end of next year. That doesn't sound like a rollout to compete with Fios. It sounds like the other way around.
As for pricing..based on Karls story..verizons top tier dsl service is priced right where a cable hsi connection is.
The difference will be that that dsl connection will behalf the speeds that comcasts 12Mb standard tier will be.
Sorry but I see that as a formula for verizon to lose more dsl customers as they try to get fios rolled out. More dsl customers on top of landlines losses on top of 25 billion in fios costs. All this doesn't equal pleasant times ahead for Verizon IMHO.
There is going to be a huge amount of pressure on them to reduce their pricing. They can't justify a 6Mb DSL connection at mid 40 dollar range when cable co's are delivering 2x's or more those speeds. And many dsl customers can barely get 1Mb.never mind 6. Will people continue to pay those mid 20 to 30/month fees when for a few dollars more they can get TWELVE times the speed with a cable provider? I think they're kinda crazy if they do..don't you?
This is why it's so critical that Verizon gets fios rolled out. But there is so many problems associated with their doing that if their revenues from landlines and dsl are falling like they are. If anything..that's going to put pressure on them to raise fios pricing just to try to pay for it all. And that's a tough thing to do when you're trying to entice people to take your products in this economy.
I'm not trying to be intentionally negative on Verizon. Fios is a good product and the competition is a good thing for consumers. But the realities of their business leaves many question marks these days as to how successful they will be in the next few years. I mean..what we're talking about here with the loss of their landline and dsl business is kind of like saying no one wants Mcdonalds hamburgers and fries anymore....and trying to count on some new product introduced last year to make up for that.
That's a tough thing for a company to overcome. Especially when they're getting hit on all sides in a difficult economy. And spending money like mad on that new product.
We'll see how it goes.
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The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC | reply to Rick
Your posts are always good for a laugh Rick. Thanks for the smile. |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
·Comcast
| reply to tubbynet
I think Comcast would be rolling out DOCSIS 3 regardless, however the timing would probably be different. Comcast got into the HSI game for added revenues, this is the natural progression of upgrading. Especially since the business model of ISPs as well as the Internet itself seems to be changing more towards the corporate structure. The use of ISPs to police, monitor, and market peoples usage has never been more prevalent than now, and will only get worse. And we as Comcast customers have no illusions about this cost not being passed to us, thats only a matter of time too!
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"For duty and humanity!"
- Moe Larry and Curly (MEN IN BLACK, 1934)...These are the guys we have in Congress |
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djrobx
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
·PHONE POWER
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T CallVantage
·Time Warner VOIP
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to Rick
quote:
Docsis 3.0 is slated to be in 20% of homes by years end..and about 100% by end of next year. That doesn't sound like a rollout to compete with Fios.
That's Comcast. The rest of the country deals with less aggressive cable companies. Time Warner's DOCSIS 3 strategy is said to be "surgical".
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AT&T U-Hearse
Your funeral. Delivered.
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