BabyBear
Keep wise ...with Night-Owl
join:2007-01-11 | I have candy!
Why does this seem like the digital equivalent to a creepy guy in a van offering candy to kids on the street?  |
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NOZIREV
join:2008-07-10
New Bedford, MA | sounds promising
by the initial findings this sounds like this could be a good thing for p2p users.
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"Citius, Altius, Fortius" [Faster, Higher, Stronger] |
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axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC | Great idea
Get people to stop using P2P by making them think "I'm not giving up my bandwidth to host someone elses files!" |
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swhitney2003
I can't drive 55.
Premium
join:2003-06-13
NH
clubs: 
 ·Skype
 ·Verizon Wireless B..
 ·Comcast
| Faster...
Currently I can download torrents maxing out my download speed. Why would I care about p4p? I'm not going to be downloading any faster than the speed I pay for. And a potential, additional charge for customers to attain this services of "prioritized p2p"... ridiculous. My speeds are fast enough, let alone paying for some shenanigans just so traffic stays in Comcast's network. Sounds like a win-win for the ISP here, get paid and use less inter-isp data.
Will this take off in the real world? Applied to torrenting? Or is it going to use proprietary software (ads infested too?)? Don't get me wrong, this idea is wonderful. It just has to sell to the public, who are already happy with torrents. #1 reason why it might fail... no 'illegal' content. Majority of p2p is illegal, so there won't be much left for P4P. Can this new technology really stand up and become a player in today's world? |
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themessiah404
@comcast.net
 from:
Cabal 
| Comcast as the new GOOD ISP? WHAT IS GOING ON?
COMCAST ACTUALLY WORKING FOR P2P? Why just 6 months ago I was having all my torrents crippled. Six months ago Comcast was bad for having caps and nowadays it seems to the be the one with the best caps.
What is going on? Did I go into another dimension where Comcast is actually the second best ISP in the nation? Why just 3 yrs ago it was the worst one. WHAT IS GOING ON? SOMEONE ANSWER ME. |
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NOZIREV
join:2008-07-10
New Bedford, MA | reply to swhitney2003
Re: Faster...
i wonder if you dont use this new p4p if you will be throttled ???
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"Citius, Altius, Fortius" [Faster, Higher, Stronger] |
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jlivingood
Premium,VIP
join:2007-10-28
Philadelphia, PA
1 edit | reply to swhitney2003
said by swhitney2003 :Currently I can download torrents maxing out my download speed. Why would I care about p4p? I'm not going to be downloading any faster than the speed I pay for. And a potential, additional charge for customers to attain this services of "prioritized p2p"... ridiculous. My speeds are fast enough, let alone paying for some shenanigans just so traffic stays in Comcast's network. Sounds like a win-win for the ISP here, get paid and use less inter-isp data. Will this take off in the real world? Applied to torrenting? Or is it going to use proprietary software (ads infested too?)? Don't get me wrong, this idea is wonderful. It just has to sell to the public, who are already happy with torrents. #1 reason why it might fail... no 'illegal' content. Majority of p2p is illegal, so there won't be much left for P4P. Can this new technology really stand up and become a player in today's world? No one at Comcast has suggested charging for this -- only Karl has done so here.
As this work moves into the IETF, you might expect that a standardized iTracker function was available with a well known name on a well known port, for any application to access on an open basis. As noted in the draft, the more clients making use of it, the better. So ISPs actually have a motivation to maximize use of the tracker rather than to constrain it via pricing mechanisms, proprietary APIs, etc.
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JL
Comcast |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
|  Some comments
»Comcast 'P4P' Tests Boost P2P By 80% you have to imagine that at some point, higher-level management at any major ISP that deployed this would find a way to screw things up. 1 - If by "screw things up" you mean that they will attempt the blocking of illegal content and/or copyrighted content, then yes that will probably happen. And why shouldn't it? They aren't in the business to aid and assist criminals &/or pirates.
2 - This doesn't remove concerns over upstream bandwidth constraints of the network at the local node. So those users using P4P must still consider whether their sharing of content(legal though it may be) will push them thru the caps their provider has implemented.
3 - P4P is designed to minimize the impact of sharing content on the provider's networks and improve user experience while trading legal content from legitimate content providers. It isn't meant to help The Pirate Bay work better.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk? |
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jlivingood
Premium,VIP
join:2007-10-28
Philadelphia, PA
| Privacy
Karl asked: "Will the system come with anti-piracy provisions and filters?"
Here's what is in the draft, which is quoted in the article above:
Should such a mechanism be standardized, the use of ISP-provided iTrackers should probably be an opt-in feature for P2P users, or at least a feature of which they are explicitly aware of and which has been enabled by default in a particular P2P client. In this way, P2P users could choose to opt-in either explicitly or by their choice of P2P client in order to choose to use the iTracker to improve performance, which benefits both the user and the ISP at the same time. Importantly in terms of privacy, the iTracker makes available only network topology information, and would not in its current form enable an ISP, via the iTracker, to determine what P2P clients were downloading what content.
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JL
Comcast |
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NOZIREV
join:2008-07-10
New Bedford, MA
·Comcast
| reply to themessiah404
Re: Comcast as the new GOOD ISP? WHAT IS GOING ON?
Comcast has always been #1 in my eyes for products and service and this p4p is proving that they are trying to work with there customers and make the customer experience better.
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"Citius, Altius, Fortius" [Faster, Higher, Stronger] |
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jlivingood
Premium,VIP
join:2007-10-28
Philadelphia, PA
| Source-Code / Openness
Karl asks in the article: "Will the client source code be published?"
The client is a P2P client - but we're talking about a query interface between the P2P client and a tracker in some form.
As this is being pursued now in the IETF, what we'd hope happens is one or more RFCs released on this. That would likely specify in full how such a query interface would work and how the tracker files are configured and stored. As a result, much like SMTP or DNS for example, you may expect many software developers to create compliant software to these open specs. But we'll see - we are a long way from that point and more investigation & technical discussion is still ahead of us.
Jason
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JL
Comcast |
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jlivingood
Premium,VIP
join:2007-10-28
Philadelphia, PA
| reply to themessiah404
Re: Comcast as the new GOOD ISP? WHAT IS GOING ON?
said by themessiah404 :
COMCAST ACTUALLY WORKING FOR P2P? Why just 6 months ago I was having all my torrents crippled. Six months ago Comcast was bad for having caps and nowadays it seems to the be the one with the best caps.
What is going on? Did I go into another dimension where Comcast is actually the second best ISP in the nation? Why just 3 yrs ago it was the worst one. WHAT IS GOING ON? SOMEONE ANSWER ME.
Crazy huh? 
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JL
Comcast |
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nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| reply to NOZIREV
Re: sounds promising
said by NOZIREV :by the initial findings this sounds like this could be a good thing for p2p users. based on past history, I'm guessing having incumbent ISPs (basically the incumbent telcos and cablecos) be involved with this means nothing good will come of it for customers.
please remember the incumbents aren't interested in keeping their customers happy, they are just interested in keeping them:
* That means bundles to confuse people and make it harder to compare services and prices
* it means speed tiers that are different from competitors (if there is a competitor), again making it harder to compare prices and services
* it means "P4P" to make customers think they are doing something "good" for them, when in reality it's likely just another scheme to further monetize the connection you're already paying them well for.
I refuse to believe that incumbent involvement in anything like this means anything other than another chance for them to make money by making customers pay more |
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Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| reply to themessiah404
Re: Comcast as the new GOOD ISP? WHAT IS GOING ON?
Altering P2P to try and look inside the ISP cloud first would be a great idea imo. would improve downloads for users and cost pretty much nothing for the ISP since traffic in their cloud is on their network.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports |
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dnoyeB
Ferrous Phallus
join:2000-10-09
Southfield, MI
1 edit | reply to swhitney2003
Re: Faster...
I couldn't agree more. I was under the impression that p2p like bittorrent will already try to use the faster peers over the slower ones. Naturally, this means you will be using in-network peers over out-of-network peers. So its already doing this.
What Comcast proposes is to prioritize in-network peers even if they are not faster. That is the only difference I can see. But I can't see any reason why they would not be faster already!?
On the legality front I have to disagree with you. There is plenty of legal content on p2p. I p2p 1 illegal song years ago when it[p2p] first came out because the song is not available due to disputes. Since then I have p2p 1000s of gigabytes of legal content. |
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Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO | Cache Servers
I think they would be better served using Cache servers on the head end.
You can do this with virtually no liability as to what resides on the cache server and thus they do not need to be concerned with the files that get cached. |
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JasonOD
@comcast.net | reply to jlivingood
Re: Source-Code / Openness
Jason- I'm all for adding value to the product line and even sharing it with the greater community, but unless this P4P thing translates into marketshare or cash, stockholders (like me) aren't going to be real happy about it. |
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jlivingood
Premium,VIP
join:2007-10-28
Philadelphia, PA
| said by JasonOD :
Jason- I'm all for adding value to the product line and even sharing it with the greater community, but unless this P4P thing translates into marketshare or cash, stockholders (like me) aren't going to be real happy about it.
Great question. While I am not a marketing person -- maybe this is another part of the broadband marketing in some way ("P2P downloads 50% faster than XYZ ISP"). But also there is the possibility of some cost reductions, when you see stats like this in the draft: "In terms of downstream utilization, we observed that P4P reduced incoming Internet traffic by an average of 80% at peering points."
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JL
Comcast |
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jlivingood
Premium,VIP
join:2007-10-28
Philadelphia, PA
| reply to Skippy25
Re: Cache Servers
said by Skippy25 :I think they would be better served using Cache servers on the head end. You can do this with virtually no liability as to what resides on the cache server and thus they do not need to be concerned with the files that get cached. One of the challenges with a cache is that you'd expect that an ISP would get DMCA take down notices (related to 'safe harbor' provisions).
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JL
Comcast |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
 ·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
| reply to jlivingood
Re: Faster...
said by jlivingood :No one at Comcast has suggested charging for this -- only Karl has done some here. Karl got it right, he merely failed to recognize that Pando already paid for this by providing Comcast with political cover during the FCC investigation. Thanks to Pando, Comcast was able to cast the impression that it was working with the P2P community. Pando wanted something, too. Trying to woo the NBC Direct deal, Pando's CEO hoped that their P4P deal with Comcast would ensure success.
Said Saul Hansell in the New York Times, "Robert Levitan, the chief executive of Pando, had told me that he hoped Comcast might program its network to give preference to applications like the one his company makes."
It was a pretty bogus deal at the time, but it did lead to some actual outreach and eventually I hope it will yield fruit down the road. I don't know the quote, something like "it has to get bad before it gets good." I think that's true and maybe that's what we were seeing back then.
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
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