 mlundin
join:2001-03-27
Lawrence, KS
 ·Sunflower Broadband
·Comcast
| Anyone else... ...here shocked? Anyone? Anyone? Just another story about how a huge corporation is more concerned with profits than serving consumers. Hell, the "Con" isn't even a story. Big business tells government that they really really really do have the consumers in mind when it eventually turns out that they don't. Jesus, how many times has this happened? | |
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jc100
join:2002-04-10
| Does anyone see he obvious... - Don't trust the Telcos. Vote NO if they put up an issue if you are too lazy to inform yourself.
- Put a referendum on the ballot to overturn this issue. Very easily done, if so many people are negatively affected as this article claims.
- Learn from mistake 1 and educate yourself better in the future Wisconsin. | |
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birdfeedr
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Does anyone see he obvious... said by Dogfather  :You think for a second that they won't believe the onslaught on cable and telco ads telling everyone that undoing franchise reform wouldn't be a "gov't power grab" or other such bullcrap? Voters are stupid. If I typed the first sentence, GrammarCheck™ would have a fit, and of 100 people I asked that question as written, 60 would pretend I didn't say a thing and keep on walking because they parsed the grammar and concluded it was a waste of their time. 36 would say "Huh?", 2 would answer Yes, and 2 would answer No.
Of the 36, 52% would approve of "Change, whatever that is" and 46% would approve if it looked like I had legs enough to stand for a couple of more years without keeling over because they liked the color of my hair. The remaining 2% still remember Annette Funicello when she wore that funny looking hat on daytime TV.
Of the remaining 4, all would parse the grammar and half would get tripped up in the double negatives and vote for what they thought they heard, while the other half would sincerely understand what I asked.
So, yes, voters are stupid, but the questions *are* complicated. | |
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greendragon
Premium
join:2003-09-20
Stewartville, MN | Re: Does anyone see he obvious... That was best post I've read in a while.
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Folding for our future!! | |
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| | | nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| said by birdfeedr :.... So, yes, voters are stupid, but the questions *are* complicated. ALL questions are complicated to stupid voters. Questions are also complicated for ignorant voters.
with the stupid voters and the ignorant voters, you end up with laws and regulations they have no clue are bad for them as consumers.
as for the legislators, money makes them stupid, ignorant or both. | |
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birdfeedr
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
·Verizon FIOS
1 edit | Re: Does anyone see the obvious... And then there's the other whammy. If you are in the minority that really understands the questions, you get slammed by those who aren't because they want to run the show, not the elites, whoever they are.
So it comes down to who can dance the best. Ballet and ice skating are examples. The best dancers are smooth and make it look so easy. Yet we know it takes hard work and constant practice. Once you lose that edge, the best you can do is teach.
Or go do something else. There's always another dancer who looks good.
Annette Funicello was a dancer. »www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6NatiMGTH4
And no, I didn't vote for her. | |
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| | Bill03
Premium
join:2007-11-26
Richmond, VA
clubs:
| said by Dogfather :Voters are stupid. Some voters are stupid, not all. | |
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Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
1 edit | Re: Does anyone see he obvious... Okay. Way too many voters are stupid. | |
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| | | | Bill03
Premium
join:2007-11-26
Richmond, VA
clubs:
| Re: Does anyone see he obvious... said by Dogfather :Okay. Way too many voters are stupid. No arguement there. | |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
·Comcast
| Re: Does anyone see he obvious... I'll leave argument alone. However, it is the obligation of our duly elected representatives to inform its constituency about matters such as this. If the politicians had ANY of the publics interest in mind, then each representative would have made sure it had an informed electorate. But they don't. They bask in the corrupted system that they themselves created. What a F***ing waste.
Don't blame the voters...blame the criminals running this enterprise, and all of the prostitutes that enable this to stand!
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"For duty and humanity!"
- Moe Larry and Curly (MEN IN BLACK, 1934)...These are the guys we have in Congress | |
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bolt
Former Broadband Exile
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Charlestown, IN
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| Re: Franchise Reform honors the Constitution said by TKJunkMail :]Wow, imagine that. In the United States of America, the right of a private company to do business WHERE they want and WHEN they want without big brother making the choices for them. What is this world coming too. Ya, that deregulation bit has worked so well, for the airlines, the banking industry and the energy businesses. | |
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| | lesopp
join:2001-06-27
Land O Lakes, FL | Re: Franchise Reform honors the Constitution Yes, let's not forget the opposition to strengthening regulation of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. | |
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO | While abusing the public trust in the process and profiting off public lands.
Isn't America great?
If AT&T and cable companies want to pick and choose where to offer services, they can do it on private land and purchased private easements. | |
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| | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| Re: Franchise Reform honors the Constitution said by marigolds :While abusing the public trust in the process and profiting off public lands. Isn't America great? If AT&T and cable companies want to pick and choose where to offer services, they can do it on private land and purchased private easements. Lets switch to communism where the community owns all property in the USA and then we wont have silly little fights, comrade. | |
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
| Re: Franchise Reform honors the Constitution said by patcat88 :said by marigolds :While abusing the public trust in the process and profiting off public lands. Isn't America great? If AT&T and cable companies want to pick and choose where to offer services, they can do it on private land and purchased private easements. Lets switch to communism where the community owns all property in the USA and then we wont have silly little fights, comrade. Oh, I get it, you think that public trust lands are communism.
Because I know you don't read the newspapers:
Martin v. Waddell:
»supreme.justia.com/us/41/367/
Illinois Central Railroad v. Illinois:
»supreme.justia.com/us/163/142/
And a good summary too in case that is too much:
»www.slc.ca.gov/Policy_Statements···rine.pdf
I think you will find Illinois Central particularly relevant and enlightening on this particular public trust issue.
Meanwhile, Martin v Waddell should firmly establish for you why the public trust is a Constitutionally granted foundation of the American Republic and a capitalist society.
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| | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| Re: Franchise Reform honors the Constitution said by marigolds :I think you will find Illinois Central particularly relevant and enlightening on this particular public trust issue. Meanwhile, Martin v Waddell should firmly establish for you why the public trust is a Constitutionally granted foundation of the American Republic and a capitalist society. Screw that, 1 mille per breath of air or I'm bagging your head to prevent theft of property. | |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC | Re: Franchise Reform honors the Constitution I don't even know what that means but it's funny! | |
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mod_wastrel
join:2008-03-28
 ·magicjack.com
| Uhhh, the "community" does own public land, and easements are private property. In what sense should at&t or any telco/cableco have the right to do anything they want to with land they don't own? Would you simply give over to them the right to do anything with your land that they want to? someone else's land?
All your land are belong to us! | |
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| | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
 ·AT&T Southeast
| Re: Franchise Reform honors the Constitution said by tubbynet :but it allows them to choose areas where there is competition. How so? From what I understand, the franchise reform minimizes the requirements to deploy new technologies into markets. How does that allow an incumbent to choose where competition exists?said by tubbynet :we can see it all over in the disparities between speeds and prices in fios areas and those who aren't served by fios. So competition works? Or am I missing your point? | |
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Tsume
join:2004-02-23
Johnson City, TN
·Embarq
·ViaTalk
·Comcast
| Re: Franchise Reform honors the Constitution said by openbox9 :said by tubbynet :but it allows them to choose areas where there is competition. How so? From what I understand, the franchise reform minimizes the requirements to deploy new technologies into markets. How does that allow an incumbent to choose where competition exists? Before: Local franchises dictate 98% coverage of their population.
After: State franchise has little to no coverage requirement.
Result: People in rural / less "competitive" areas get no cable / phone / etc. They choose where competition exists and where to compete. Rather than serve an entire city, they can "cherry pick" and serve only the "rich" area that will buy more of their services. | |
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| | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: Franchise Reform honors the Constitution said by Tsume :Before: Local franchises dictate 98% coverage of their population. After: State franchise has little to no coverage requirement. I understand the before/after situations, what I don't understand is tubbynet 's comment about allowing providers to choose areas where there is competition. Franchise reform aids providers to choose where they deploy service, but doesn't necessarily allow providers to choose where there is competition...short of them choosing not to compete in a market, which they already do.said by Tsume :Result: People in rural / less "competitive" areas get no cable / phone / etc. How's that different than before?said by Tsume :They choose where competition exists and where to compete. Rather than serve an entire city, they can "cherry pick" and serve only the "rich" area that will buy more of their services. Is there proof of that? I see the "redlining" comment bantered around a lot, but haven't seen any actual evidence. | |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
·Comcast
| Re: Franchise Reform honors the Constitution They can choose areas where the median income is above average. For example, look at this map with communities with professional degrees
»www.city-data.com/top2/h188.html
overlapped with most income
»www.city-data.com/top2/z0.html
now look at where Verizon Fios is
»/gmaps/fios
now tell me with a straight face that theres no "cherry Picking" going on.
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"For duty and humanity!"
- Moe Larry and Curly (MEN IN BLACK, 1934)...These are the guys we have in Congress | |
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| | | | | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: Franchise Reform honors the Constitution Not to mention that S_engineer 's links list macro level details while most arguments against franchise reform highlight micro level concerns. | |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
·Comcast
| Re: Franchise Reform honors the Constitution said by openbox9 :Not to mention that S_engineer 's links list macro level details while most arguments against franchise reform highlight micro level concerns. incorrect, what the maps show (in general) are areas where the limited fios resources (micro)are being deployed in more affluent areas. Of course they're going to want to bypass municiple franchise laws by just doing at the state (macro) level. | |
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| | | | | | | | | SD6
join:2005-03-26
| Re: Franchise Reform honors the Constitution said by S_engineer :said by openbox9 :Not to mention that S_engineer 's links list macro level details while most arguments against franchise reform highlight micro level concerns. incorrect, what the maps show (in general) are areas where the limited fios resources (micro)are being deployed in more affluent areas. Of course they're going to want to bypass municiple franchise laws by just doing at the state (macro) level. S-engineer - You don't have any maps and you haven't shown anything. | |
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO | Re: Franchise Reform honors the Constitution There were maps at the links. | |
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| | | | | | | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast
| Did you look at Verizon's wireline network map by state? It oddly lines up more or less with the user reported Verizon FiOS deployment map...and the top earning zip codes...and the professional degree locations that you highlighted previously. The only correlation that I see from this relatively high-level data is that Verizon is deploying FiOS across their footprint that coincidentally happens to be the highest paid, most educated areas of the country. Accusations of "cherry picking" are still far fetched and undocumented from what I can see based on this info. | |
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
| said by TKJunkMail :said by S_engineer :They can choose areas where the median income is above average. For example, look at this map with communities with professional degrees » www.city-data.com/top2/h188.htmloverlapped with most income » www.city-data.com/top2/z0.htmlnow look at where Verizon Fios is » /gmaps/fiosnow tell me with a straight face that theres no "cherry Picking" going on. All I see is three lists. I don't see any correlation done by you proving anything. instead of using the pins, i'll use the FIOS map with illinois as a test case.
I'll run a covariance model using cokriging of professional degrees and income as a predictive for FIOS deployment, and we'll see how it comes out.
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
| Re: Franchise Reform honors the Constitution Of course, that will not prove anything since we are still looking at a community level, which local franchises will not affect. Still though, it can indicate a pattern.
The better test would require census block or block group level deployment statistics (we're supposed to have those any day now, right?) | |
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| nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| said by TKJunkMail :Critics of the video franchise law say it has given AT&T and cable companies the freedom to pick and choose where they want to offer their services Wow, imagine that. In the United States of America, the right of a private company to do business WHERE they want and WHEN they want without big brother making the choices for them. What is this world coming too. so TK, you have no problem with me opening a car dealership in your front yard with no conditions and no compensation to you? | |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Re: Franchise Reform honors the Constitution said by nasadude :said by TKJunkMail :Critics of the video franchise law say it has given AT&T and cable companies the freedom to pick and choose where they want to offer their services Wow, imagine that. In the United States of America, the right of a private company to do business WHERE they want and WHEN they want without big brother making the choices for them. What is this world coming too. so TK, you have no problem with me opening a car dealership in your front yard with no conditions and no compensation to you? Not as long as you pay me $500,000 for the privilege. Because a car dealership isn't an easement.
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| | | nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Franchise Reform honors the Constitution I get the distinct impression you don't believe in easements, since it's one of those "big brother" things.
besides, with your zeal for all things free market, I would think you would jump at the chance to sacrifice for the greater good of corporatism. | |
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NetAdmin
CCNA
join:2008-05-22
2 edits | said by TKJunkMail :Wow, imagine that. In the United States of America, the right of a private company to do business WHERE they want and WHEN they want without big brother making the choices for them. What is this world coming too. The Constitution says nothing about states dictating the terms under which business can operate in their respective boundaries.
Actually, it just dawned on me, the 10th Amendment actually give states those rights to do just the opposite of what you've stated.
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
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Drilling for more oil is akin to giving a methhead the keys to the meth lab. | |
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asdfdfdfdfdfdf
@Level3.net
 from:
ArgMeMatey
| If this was a robust competitive market, with many competitors and with low barriers to entry I would agree with you.
Since it is a very capital intensive market that seems to constantly tend toward one company controlling all the wires, with very high barriers to entry, and since these companies need access to a lot of other people's land to get all these wires to potential customers (it requires the government to coerce millions of property owners into granting access to portions of their land for use by such a company), why is it unreasonable for the government to impose conditions on these companies which pressure them to provide universal service in exchange.
Easements require everyone to make a sacrifice by telling them what they can do with their property and by forcing them to provide a free benefit to a company. Why shouldn't the company have a reciprocal requirement to provide a benefit in exchange for the benefit that they are receiving from everyone else? Why is this so unfair or oppressive? | |
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| Metatron2008
join:2008-09-02
Stockbridge, GA
1 edit | Try reading the constitution again TK. Most amendments do not apply to private institutions. | |
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO | Meanwhile in Phil Montgomery's reelection campaign... Phil Montgomery's campaign donations from telecom sources jumped from $2k in 2004 to $10.7k in 2008. This includes 8 out of state maximum donations from AT&T/SBC employees. | |
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See 44 replies to this post |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| WOW you can judge results after one whole year? nice SLANT article instead of NEWS.
sorry local franchise control is a joke and anyone thinking otherwise is either ignorant obtuse or both. The only thing my local franchise authority ever got us is higher prices and fewer channels.
Cherry picking? That was going on already. Charter for YEARS in my state has given certain area upgrades while ignoring others. For example in some parts of my state you can get 16 Mbps internet here it's only 10 Mbps. In some areas you can get VOD, my area stil waiting even though the county right below me has had it for nearly 4 years. If that's not cherry picking then I don't know what is. So please. | |
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NetAdmin
CCNA
join:2008-05-22
| Re: WOW you can judge results after one whole year? said by BF69 :sorry local franchise control is a joke and anyone thinking otherwise is either ignorant obtuse or both. The only thing my local franchise authority ever got us is higher prices and fewer channels. That's odd, our local franchise authority has been quite the opposite. They had always been responsive to complaints from subscribers. Don't measure every local franchise authority by the yardstick of the obviously inept franchise authority in your area.
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Drilling for more oil is akin to giving a methhead the keys to the meth lab. | |
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| | nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| Re: WOW you can judge results after one whole year? said by NetAdmin :That's odd, our local franchise authority has been quite the opposite. They had always been responsive to complaints from subscribers. Don't measure every local franchise authority by the yardstick of the obviously inept franchise authority in your area. absolutely agree. our local franchise authority is great.
when I was having problems with comcast some years ago, I actually got on a first name basis with one of the guys in the county office. He always returned calls or emails and helped quite a bit - it's interesting how hard it was to get comcast to respond to me, but shortly after talking to Keith in the county office about a problem I would magically hear from comcast. | |
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
1 edit | said by BF69 :In some areas you can get VOD, my area stil waiting even though the county right below me has had it for nearly 4 years. If that's not cherry picking then I don't know what is. So please. It's not cherry picking.
Cherry picking is not, "They get VOD and we get PPV".
Cherry picking is, "We complained that we were not getting VOD, so they turned off our service, took down our nodes, put our address on the "no service" list, and left their wires behind and told us to deal with it."
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Rick from Ohio
@va.gov
| Just another notch on the Corporate bedpost Yes Wisconsin you have also been screwed by AT&T without a kiss to the consumer.
I was one of a state-wide group that opposed this type of bill in Ohio, with similar results. We were ignored by state senators and congress people who were seduced by ATT's promises of roses and chocolate (read jobs and economic development)
Why is it politicians believe the large corporations over their own citizens and local officials?
State after state the Bills written by AT&T are accepted by the politicians. What can be done to break the "AT&T spell? | |
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anon 3 mous
@sonic.net
| re: CA high speed rail One might be tempted to point out that proceeding to build an automobile based infrastructure in earnest just as one's domestic oil production was peaking was ill-advised. One might be tempted to point out that refusing to even admit that there might be a problem with importing 60% of one's oil to keep said automobile infrastructure going right about when the world's oil production is peaking is, well, batshit crazy. And one might also point out that a continued irrational attachment to one's automobile based infrastructure, in defiance of international finance norms, of international law (when one needs to 'unilaterally' launch wars to dislodge 'terrorists' from the 2nd or 3rd biggest puddle of oil in the world), and a rejection of the most certain cure, rail; well, one could, couldn't one? But then one would be off-topic, wouldn't one? | |
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ArgMeMatey
join:2001-08-09
Milwaukee, WI
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Wisconsin needs CHOICES!! (Not change...) said by hdman :I don't think I will ever see broadband at my home in the next 10 years because of AT&T's hold on our liberal State! HDMan AT&T may have a hold in that many liberals support union jobs, but Phil Montgomery, a republican, was pushing this bill for Big Telecom. So how are the "liberals" involved in the CTPRB (conspiracy to prevent rural broadband)?
Have you checked into socialist options such as municipal or coop fiber or WiMax? If you're not into that, I do believe there is a private WiMax entity setting up systems in your neck of the woods. 
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Gee. The same thing they did in Oklahoma.... ... except I'm sure the legislators here would still consider it a great deal, being such a red state and all. | |
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Franchise Reform honors the Constitution
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