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Forums » Qwest FTTN Upgrades Causing Problems For CLECs
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Comments on news posted 2008-12-14 13:48:45: Qwest's in the process of spending roughly $300 million to upgrade 1.8 million of their customers to ADSL2+ technology, offering users 12Mbps/896kbps tiers for slightly less than $50, and 20Mbps/896kbps tiers for around $100. ..

page: 1 · 2 · 3
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Pz_

join:2001-03-31
Brownsburg, IN
clubs:

some things never change

Good to see that this is all still the same. These were the exact same tactics deployed to our customers some 10 years ago way back when I installed DSL. Only then it was Ameritech sticking it to us with "line problems" then having them magically disappear when they cut the CLEC out of the equation.


TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast


4 edits
 Here is a Qwest DOC explaining the interference problem ...

.... and the steps a CLEC must take to resolve the problem.

»www.qwest.com/wholesale/download···3_08.doc


Issue Description: Service Interference

Certain Qwest network upgrades or changes may impact end user’s existing Asynchronous Transfer Mode (ATM)-based Qwest Commercial Broadband Service functionality that is provisioned on a stand-alone basis or with either Resale voice service or Qwest Local Services Platform® (QLSP®) voice service.

The occurrence of this Digital Subscriber Line (“DSL”) interference happens only when certain network conditions occur, including at some Central Office or Remote Terminal (“CO/RT”) overlay sites where there is a power disparity between the distant CO streams and the RT data streams in shared binder groups. The RT DSL can degrade the CO DSL if in the same binder group.

Remote Terminal (RT) deployment of Internet Protocol (IP) broadband or also referred to as Fiber-to-the-Node (FTTN) where the serving Central Office has ATM-based DSL are overlay areas and may cause interference or degradation of the ATM-based DSL service in some cases.

-------------
Description of Solution

Upon receipt of a repair ticket for broadband interference, Qwest will endeavor to address or correct the service interference as detailed below and may result in moving the existing DSL connection to a new binder group at the CO/RT.

In certain instances, Qwest may determine that the existing DSL network configuration providing the broadband service to the end user location is no longer compatible with the new network configuration. Resulting service interference cannot be corrected without a broadband service change.


If Qwest determines that a broadband service change can correct the interference issue, you may submit, and Qwest will accept, a service request (for speeds of 1.5Mbs or greater) to change the existing broadband service to an IP broadband) based Qwest Broadband option detailed below. Note: these options are otherwise not available under Qwest Commercial Broadband Service and repair ticket number must be provided..
• ATM broadband speeds of 1.5Mbs or greater can be changed to same IP broadband speed.
• ATM broadband speeds of 1.5Mbs or greater can be upgraded to a higher IP broadband speed, new rates will apply to the upgraded speed including Internet access.
• ATM broadband speeds less than 1.5Mbs can be changed, but must be changed to an IP broadband speed of 1.5Mbs, new rates will apply to the new speed.
---------

Internet Access

If it is necessary to make a change to IP-based DSL service, Qwest will provide Internet access. Qwest will waive the charge for Qwest Internet Basic Internet access service when the speed is 1.5Mbps or the same speed as the former ATM-based DSL. In some Qwest states this wavier of the Qwest Internet Basic may be reflected as $.01 on your bill.

Call the Tech Support Center at 888-777-9569 to obtain the newly assigned credentials.

If service is changed to IP broadband service, it will be your duty to work with your end-user customer to ensure e-mail (web-based) and other application services you provide are still available.

If the end-user moves to IP broadband services, static IP addresses are available only from Qwest. Ordering of static IP' addresses is available at »https://www.qwest.net/account_tools/sign···t_tools/ within Account Manager tool. Static IP’s may be ordered only after broadband order is complete and cannot be ordered with an LSR. It is your responsibility to manage any request for static IP’s with your end user. Giving credential information to your end user may allow your end user to order these directly. These charges will be billed through the summary bill.

-----------
In cases where an Interference issue has been identified by Qwest, Qwest procedures are to correct the interference issue as follows:
• Identify the facilities where the interference exists.
• Determine if the service interfered with is a C.O. Based DSLAM.
• Determine if Qwest has installed a Remote DSLAM in the Network.
• Determine if the Service being interfered with is in the same binder group as the interferer Service.
• Move the interfered with service to a different binder group.
The above process will be followed until binder group separation is no longer possible. At this point the CLEC will be given the opportunity to follow the process for an IP broadband alternative.


TheMG

join:2007-09-04
Edmonton, AB

1 edit
Upload speed.

20Mbps/896kbps

Wow, and I thought Shaw Cable was bad with their Nitro 25Mbps/1Mbps for $93...

Look I know ADSL2+ is limited in terms of the maximum upload speed, but it can handle faster than 896kbps.


tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
not when you max out the interleaving at the top end of the spec for each sub. nothing but trying to maximize the customer base on the lowest possible amount.

q.

dustman81

join:2002-05-28
Tallmadge, OH
·AT&T U-Verse
·RoadRunner Cable

A swing and a miss for Qwest

It's good that Qwest is starting to deploy FTTN, like AT&T is doing, but using ADSL2+ instead of VDSL is stupid.

At least AT&T did that right. So they can offer their users video, phone and high speed internet instead of just internet. Not only that, but AT&T's internet is cheaper, too. AT&T users can get 18Mbps/1.5Mbps for $65/mth. When AT&T starts deploying VDSL2+ and pair bonding, it's going to smoke whatever Qwest has.

It would have been nice for AT&T to have FTTH like Verizon FiOS, but it's still better than Qwest.

I don't what exec though that ADSL2+ was the way to go, but they are going to get beat by the cable companies, Verizon and AT&T.


NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX

reply to Pz_
Re: some things never change

Was not enough for them to kill us mom and pop isp's off back in the 90's by charging us the same rate for a DSL line as they charged a customer. Now they've got government permission to migrate customers to FTTN and deny us access to our customers if they switch.

This should be illegal. Crap like this is why so many are unserved/underserved.

viperlmw
Premium
join:2005-01-25
·Qwest.net

reply to TKJunkMail
Re: Here is a Qwest DOC explaining the interference problem ...

So there is a process for the CLEC to keep their customer. It seems to me that the CLECs need to educate their customers to initiate repair with their provider (the CLEC) and have the CLEC maintain control of the repair process. There is no need for a CLEC customer to ever call Qwest, but many CLECs don't want to deal with repair issues themselves, wanting to have the customer deal directly with the incumbent. If the CLEC keeps control of their customer, all will be well.


pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast

 Dumb CLECs

Why haven't they built their own network by now?

Qwest finally gets the message and starts investing in fiber. We should be applauding this! Why is there so much sympathy for yet another company that didn't get the memo to start building its own network?
--
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty


a333
A hot cup of integrals please

join:2007-06-12
Rego Park, NY
·Cingular Wireless
·Verizon Online DSL

hmmm..... maybe bacause there are pesky roadblocks like ROW limitations and trenching costs involved, not to mention, Quest will do its utmost best to legally bar the CLEC's from putting so much as a toe into the FTTx market. Don't believe me, look what they did to projects like Utopia (hence the reason I hate gov't-funded networks even more, they're susceptible to the sleeping arrangements of politicians....).


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

reply to pnh102
"Why haven't they built their own network by now?"

Because the ILecs try and make that is difficult as possible. You have to follow certain rules to attach to their poles and even when you are going to go with their rules they do anything possible to delay you. They know CLecs can't just start planting poles because they will back opposition to the additional poles and franchise requests. They also know how up set people get over Vrad placement. In my city alone I can think of about 15 to 20 active CLecs off the top of my head. Could you imagine how many vrad type boxes there would be and how upset people would be about that.

Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
reply to pnh102
im sure the ILECs would do anything and everything to "C-Block" a CLEC from getting full rights to the poles.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

mrhuggles

join:2007-03-29
Ames, IA
reply to TKJunkMail
Re: Here is a Qwest DOC explaining the interference problem ...

what exactly is IP-based dsl and why isnt it effected?


TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast

said by mrhuggles See Profile :

what exactly is IP-based dsl and why isnt it effected?
My impression from reading that Doc is that that is what they are calling FTTN.

Remote Terminal (RT) deployment of Internet Protocol (IP) broadband or also referred to as Fiber-to-the-Node (FTTN) where the serving Central Office has ATM-based DSL are overlay areas and may cause interference or degradation of the ATM-based DSL service in some cases.

--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?

JesseHarris

join:2008-07-30
Sandy, UT
Old news

XMission has known about this problem for a solid 6 months or more. That's why they're so heavily invested in UTOPIA right now. If they don't get away from Qwest's transport, they'll wither and die.

RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission

reply to a333
Re: Dumb CLECs

said by a333 See Profile :

look what they did to projects like Utopia (hence the reason I hate gov't-funded networks even more, they're susceptible to the sleeping arrangements of politicians....).
I would think you would hate "private" more than "government" since the "private is so dishonest. At least with the "government" we have a chance to vote out the crooks, with "private" we just pay more.

Also, There are different levels of "government" each level up is less responsive to the needs of the people.
--
I am not lost, I find myself every time.

hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable

reply to battleop
who says they can't use wireless? and in many areas the Power company owns the poles not the telco.

And for the other poster a Muni is not a CLEC. And they could have built out they just didnt. and now in many states, the state regulates the ROW and not the local areas. and why not go to the state and ask to pop up your own poles or put your line underground?

danawest

join:2005-01-29
80241-2357

20mb speed price decrease

The price for Qwest's Quantum speed (20mb down/1mb up) was just lowered $40 to $64.99/month. I believe your ISP has to be Microsoft/MSN or Qwest.net and it's an everyday price. Customers with that speed will see an automatic price drop on their next bill.
»www.qwest.com/residential/intern···landing/


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

reply to hottboiinnc
Re: Dumb CLECs

More and more Power companies are Clecs. In our area our Power Company is a Clec and it isn't very cooperative with the other CLecs either. Oh and it's also owned by the city government to boot. Wireless can be another problem because it's rather difficult to deploy new tower sites because people are afraid their eyes will fall out if they have too look at another tower.

A lot of people around here like to bitch about the lack of choice but they also like to bitch about the infrastructure that is needed to give them choice.


a333
A hot cup of integrals please

join:2007-06-12
Rego Park, NY
·Cingular Wireless
·Verizon Online DSL

reply to RayW
Vote out the crooks for what? More crooks?? Hehe, good one...the day a crook is EFFECTIVELY replaced is the day pigs will fly, and hell freezes over. I.E. to call a politician honest is to call a whore a virgin...
Responsive or not, I personally view ALL levels of government as being composed of nothing more than a group of political opportunists.

hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable


1 edit
reply to battleop
You don't need a super large tower to offer wireless a small 200ft tower is usually fine. But in Ohio the major power company is a CLEC too they offer dial-up though in most of the area but using their CLEC brand- First Communications owned by First Energy. but AEP doesnt care to be a CLEC.

But also in Ohio we have a statewide ROW agreement. Which could be used to enter in the market. Especially if video was going to be offered.

Also in this area the cable company owns a great deal of their own poles. Power and Phone are on one side of the street and cable is on the other.
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