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Comments on news posted 2008-12-19 09:10:17: The Wall Street Journal this morning reports that the RIAA will be abandoning their strategy of filing mass lawsuits against P2P users, a plan that has targeted some 35,000 people since 2003. ..

page: 1 · 2 · next

antwanp
Beyond FM, Beyond AM, XM Satellite Radio
Premium
join:2002-05-14
Cedar Hill, TX

Hmm...

Is it wishful thinking to hope that TimeWarner's RoadRunner isn't on that 3 strikes list?
--
The Perils of Living in 3-D: »www.antwanpayne.com

elios

join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO

1 recommendation

Re: Hmm...

Hows that change working for you?
Expand your moderator at work
Pv8man

join:2008-07-24
Hammond, IN
the change? seems to be going ok

although it's taking quite awhile, seeing as we don't have a president right now.
cubsblue

join:2003-11-07
Westfield, IN

Re: Hmm...

Yeah were changing right back to the corruption and crony ism of the Clinton days.

Eric_Schmidt

@verizon.net
RR doesn't have a contract with the RIAA for sharing music.

They only have a contract with HBO and the MPAA to notify users.

Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA

Cause they lose every case they take to trial

And those they did win, ended up overturned and the RIAA has to reimburse those they sued.

Julio
Bachatero y Que?
Premium
join:2003-03-19
Brooklyn, NY
kudos:1

Andrew Cuomo is just like spitzer

Trying to use the AG position to become NY Governor.

n2jtx

join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY

Re: Andrew Cuomo is just like spitzer

said by Julio:

Trying to use the AG position to become NY Governor.
Until Caroline Kennedy became the chosen one, I figured Cuomo was in line to be Senator. I guess he will continue to be AG.
--
I support the right to keep and arm bears.

FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
said by Julio:

Trying to use the AG position to become NY Governor.
Or be appointed Senator from NY to replace Clinton.
grandpinaple

join:2006-01-03
New York, NY

1 recommendation

Re: Andrew Cuomo is just like spitzer

Cuomo is just engaging in typical censorship politics. See Europe for more details. It is the sine qua non of the socialist state that descent from their noble cause must be crushed. That evil meddler, the internets has been causing them problems of late. The only way to crush it is through government force.
ross7

join:2000-08-16
said by Julio:

Trying to use the AG position to become NY Governor.
Cuomo isn't fit to be dogcatcher, but I'm sure he considers the governorship a hereditary office. He's just pandering to the Christian right "law and order" crowd without doing anything meaningful to curtail real crime, or promote the public weal. Metro District Attorney--->State AG--->Governor---> ??, is the usual path for the politically ambitious.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Andrew Cuomo is just like spitzer

said by ross7:

[Cuomo]'s just pandering to the Christian right "law and order" crowd ...
Does that crowd even exist in a large enough number in New York State to help someone out politically? Personally I don't think this is the case.
--
Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!
grandpinaple

join:2006-01-03
New York, NY

Re: Andrew Cuomo is just like spitzer

Censorship legislation is good insurance for when people see through your bullshit.
ross7

join:2000-08-16

1 recommendation

said by pnh102:

said by ross7:

[Cuomo]'s just pandering to the Christian right "law and order" crowd ...
Does that crowd even exist in a large enough number in New York State to help someone out politically? Personally I don't think this is the case.
Sorry, I thought it illustrative of the conservative mindset of those "eye for an eye" Christian folks who believe mandatory sentencing, "three strikes, you're out", and capital punishment are not only necessary and desirable, but morally and ethically correct. They are also the first to proffer "the end justifies the means" argument as rationalization for torture. Their numbers are legion, and they are absolutely necessary for politicos like Cuomo to exist. The frightened herd needs a good shepherd, and Cuomo is just reinforcing their FUD to further his ambitions. As I said, the path to the governors office is usually through the prosecutorial side of the justice system.

There is a reason the U.S. incarcerates more people than any other country in the world...and it doesn't have much to do with justice!
bzmeteorite

join:2006-02-15
San Luis Obispo, CA

Re: Andrew Cuomo is just like spitzer

said by ross7:

said by pnh102:

said by ross7:

[Cuomo]'s just pandering to the Christian right "law and order" crowd ...
Does that crowd even exist in a large enough number in New York State to help someone out politically? Personally I don't think this is the case.
Sorry, I thought it illustrative of the conservative mindset of those "eye for an eye" Christian folks who believe mandatory sentencing, "three strikes, you're out", and capital punishment are not only necessary and desirable, but morally and ethically correct. They are also the first to proffer "the end justifies the means" argument as rationalization for torture. Their numbers are legion, and they are absolutely necessary for politicos like Cuomo to exist. The frightened herd needs a good shepherd, and Cuomo is just reinforcing their FUD to further his ambitions. As I said, the path to the governors office is usually through the prosecutorial side of the justice system.

There is a reason the U.S. incarcerates more people than any other country in the world...and it doesn't have much to do with justice!
As a Christian, I take great offense in finding such attitudes and generalizations towards other people.

I try not to wish my beliefs on others, always weighing what I do and how it will affect non-believers. I try to think of things in a neutral way based on majority common sense, moral, and ethical guidelines. Do I want to be known as the pushy arrogant Christian? I avoid groupthink and push myself to be independent.

I am a strong believer in the ends do NOT justify the means. Such beliefs erode our civil liberties, which is why I don't support things such as censorship, torture, and illegal wiretapping. Heck, civil liberties alone is the only thing protecting my beliefs (both religious and political). You have to be in mind of the future. Do you really want a future where all these things are laced into the most common actions? Do you want to live in fear of being arrested for doing the most mundane common thing?

I would love it if hypocrites such as Cuomo are booted out of office and tried for treason, but sadly, the masses are indeed sheep and think anything for the children or to protect them from terrorists are a good idea. I stand in the minority.

I wish that you would reconsider all religious beliefs to be FUD, because it's not. Certainly this is true for some extreme organizations whose sole focus is on money, power, and greed, but is not an absolute all.
--
What happens when you combine common sense and an outspoken personality?

DaSneaky1D
what's up
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou

No personal liability, no reason for ISP's to lose a RGU

So, it seems we're back to square one...and ISP's can start marketing again that HSI service is great for all sort of uses!
--
:: my trivial ramblings ::

Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1

Hmmmm

"The plan's primary objective was to generate news coverage, scaring other P2P offenders into compliance."

More like extortion

cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7

Re: Hmmmm

said by Cheese:

More like extortion
It's only extortion if you've done nothing wrong. The ??AA are sleezy people and I can't condone them for their lawsuit-happy actions. But realistically, how many of those 35k people they've gone after really are truly innocent (either through "mistaken identity" or from someone using their connection without consent [e.g. open access point])?
grandpinaple

join:2006-01-03
New York, NY

Re: Hmmmm

Who cares if the infringers are innocent. Infringers are singular entities who individually exercise very little power. Whereas the RIAA is a large organization exercising extra legal power. They can do a lot of damage whereas the individual can do little.

FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

Re: Hmmmm

said by grandpinaple:

Who cares if the infringers are innocent. Infringers are singular entities who individually exercise very little power. Whereas the RIAA is a large organization exercising extra legal power. They can do a lot of damage whereas the individual can do little.
So, if you are a small criminal stealing from a large corporation, then that is OK? But what if a million small criminals are stealing? Then we have a breakdown in society.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?

Hangmn
Don't Fight It...It's Inevitable
Premium
join:2000-04-08
Philadelphia, PA

Re: Hmmmm

said by FFH:

said by grandpinaple:

Who cares if the infringers are innocent. Infringers are singular entities who individually exercise very little power. Whereas the RIAA is a large organization exercising extra legal power. They can do a lot of damage whereas the individual can do little.
So, if you are a small criminal stealing from a large corporation, then that is OK? But what if a million small criminals are stealing? Then we have a breakdown in society.
Point is ..IT DIDN'T WORK,,they are BACK peddling...RICO **IA's ZERO..PIRATES 1
--
»davescustompc.com

tompoe

@networkiowa.com

Re: Hmmmm

Check Ray Beckerman's site for list of suits brought in recent days, and ask yourself why the author wants you to believe the RIAA has quit.

FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
said by cdru:

said by Cheese:

More like extortion
It's only extortion if you've done nothing wrong. The ??AA are sleezy people and I can't condone them for their lawsuit-happy actions. But realistically, how many of those 35k people they've gone after really are truly innocent (either through "mistaken identity" or from someone using their connection without consent [e.g. open access point])?
1 to 5% tops might be innocent.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?
Ikarasu

join:2004-01-09
Port Coquitlam, BC

Re: Hmmmm

said by FFH:

said by cdru:

said by Cheese:

More like extortion
It's only extortion if you've done nothing wrong. The ??AA are sleezy people and I can't condone them for their lawsuit-happy actions. But realistically, how many of those 35k people they've gone after really are truly innocent (either through "mistaken identity" or from someone using their connection without consent [e.g. open access point])?
1 to 5% tops might be innocent.
Bankrupting 1-5% of families, or trying to, is too much IMO

Piracy is rampart on the internet, but suing people, or dissconecting them isnt the way to fix it. They should look at other delivery methods instead of $15 a CD where 1 song is good, some companies have done this... non DRM music (I believe apple is doing it now too) and it's working well for them.

There will ALWAYS be pirates - Just like there will always be store thefts. But I don't see Walmart grabbing people someone pointed out, and randomly suing them claiming their infringing, when in reality with all the open WiFis, Tor clients, and even just false positives... a lot of the people who are innocent are getting accused.

Canada has a Piracy CD tax - Maybe if they stopped treating EVERYONE like pirates, people wouldnt resort to it so much. I personally download all my music, and support artists Via concert/T-shirt sales - Rather support the bands I like, giving them a few bucks per sale, instead of 5 cents per CD, and the rest to fund mass lawsuits.

fatness
subtle
Premium,ex-mod 01-13
join:2000-11-17
fishing
kudos:14

1 recommendation

said by FFH:

1 to 5% tops might be innocent.
Is this the new version of the "5% of users consume 95% of the bandwidth" lie?

Both versions were produced by proctology.

funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:6

1 recommendation

Re: Hmmmm

said by fatness:

Is this the new version of the "5% of users consume 95% of the bandwidth" lie?

Both versions were produced by proctology.
I love that punch line. Please don't sue me if I infringe on it someday.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon -- KJ7RL
What you do at Christmas does not matter so much; What counts are the Christmas things you do all year through.

Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA

1 recommendation

Piracy Tax

If the RIAA gets a $5-10 piracy tax enacted onto ISP bills, look for the MPAA to jump on board followed by the BSA other content-provider organizations. Pretty soon, your ISP bill will double or triple in price because you are paying for piracy that you may or may not do.

I'm not a pirate, but if I'm forced to pay the RIAA $5-10 per month on the off chance that I'd pirate something, then you can bet that I'll start downloading music from P2P groups. This is only going to increase piracy, not decrease it.
--
-Jason Levine
Support a children's charity. Buy a calendar and/or a photo book. Shooting For A Cause

wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

Re: Piracy Tax

said by Jason Levine:

I'm not a pirate, but if I'm forced to pay the RIAA $5-10 per month on the off chance that I'd pirate something, then you can bet that I'll start downloading music from P2P groups. This is only going to increase piracy, not decrease it.
Agreed. I dont pirate now (I use itunes), however if I was forced to pay for the "right" to pirate then it would technically no longer be pirating (it would then be content I was legally entitled to). The first result would be that it would put itunes out of business (so you can bet Apple will fight that tooth and nail), and then as you mention everyone would begin to download tons of content.

If they make people pay, then the entire "pay for content" market will disappear. That would be like giving people free bus passes and then hoping people will (for some reason) still want to pay the fare when they get on.
--

ISurfTooMuch

join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL
You'd better believe it! And you can also be assured that people will start to state that, if they're forced to pay a "piracy tax", then downloading is now fine. Then the RIAA/MPAA, etc. will speak up and say it is still illegal, but they still feel people should be forced to pay this "tax". And if they think people hate them now, they ain't seen nothing yet. It's one thing to hate the RIAA in an abstract way because of their dealings with other people, but if people realize that they're taking money out of their pockets every month, they're going to hate them on a close personal level.

rcdailey
Dragoonfly
Premium
join:2005-03-29
Rialto, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
I recall when they added a small amount to the price of blank audio cassettes in order to cover the losses due to copying albums onto cassettes. Never mind that the quality of the copies made that way was inferior, the money was paid by everyone. I think they could probably get away with adding a $1 to $2 fee per month on everyone, but more than that would wipe out any download service that charged.

••••
ISurfTooMuch

join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL

Master database

If such a scheme is going to work, it will require a master database of alleged file sharers, and whoever runs that database is going to be a huge lawsuit target. Sooner or later, someone is going to sue to demand conclusive proof that they shared copyrighted material, and then I wonder if this plan will run afoul of anti-collusion laws.
jam_bongo

join:2002-07-17
Toronto, ON

i'd aplaud RIAA's sudden sanity except...

now they've gone from doing quasi-frivolous lawsuits with little to no proof, to either pressuring ISP's to do "three strikes" policies which will affect many more people in areas where broadband alternatives are slim. Or to pressuring the government to create a copyright tax/levy raising everyone's monthly bill even for Joe/Jane who only uses iTunes and has never even used a p2p client!

FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 recommendation

3 strikes enforcement voluntary but for common good

ISPs don't have to take this route; they're protected under safe harbor provisions within the DMCA.
ISPs legally may not have to take part in 3 strikes type policies, but may decide to do so in the interests of their law abiding customers and for the common good.

Like a shopping mall may have security forces take part in suppression of shoplifting activities even though the individual stores are the ones being victimized and have ultimate responsibility for theft prevention. The mall, like an ISP, is providing a safe environment for honest commerce.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?

••••••••••••••••••••••••
deadzoned
Premium
join:2005-04-13
Cypress, TX

Stupid

These jerks are going to ruin the Internet as we know it due to their own selfish self-interests.

Filters will never work and are destined to fail. The 3 strikes policy is going to get sued out of existence and leave the ISP's holding the bag and wondering what happened. Who keeps the list and maintains it? Can you get off the list ever?

And that stupid pirate tax... Seriously?! Is it going to be opt in or opt out or will there even be a choice? What happens to all of the legitimate services that are already established like I-Tunes?

These people are going to run into a giant backlash of unintended consequences with this stuff.
Riplin

join:2002-05-13
canada

Time will tell

So the isp's are gonna knock off their bread & butter over some mp3's? Riiiiiight!

micl
Visit Lovely Downtown Port Starboard
Premium
join:2001-10-25
Silver Spring, MD

Piracy Tax

So if the RI can't make money legitimately, they will get Congress to give them a "bailout" of sorts by enacting this tax? And now everyone's gotta pay whether or not they want what the RI has to offer? Ugh!
--
If I don't see you in the future, I'll see you in the pasture

ctceo
Premium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN
Reviews:
·Virgin Mobile Br..

2 edits

Getting Away With it.

If the response I've received about the monthly caps in addition to the speed caps you already pay for is any indicator of personal interest in such a plan then it will probably become law in the next year or sooner.

I'm noticing either not a lot of people really give a damn about what their ISP's are doing to their accounts regardless of complaints or attempts to prevent it. So it's probably not gonna be much different with this scenario.
--
YOUR ISP MAY BE CAPPING OR GETTING READY TO DO SO BY EARLY NEXT YEAR. LETS PUT A STOP TO THEM. »www.ipetitions.com/petition/PMDBI/
Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
·Embarq Now Centu..
·Comcast
·CenturyLink

Giving the RIAA Ammunition for Music Sharing Tax.

I am constantly irritated by efforts of the RIAA and other copyright holders to add a fee to my Internet Bill because irresponsible douche bags insist on allowing copyrighted material to be uploaded from their computers. All these people do is give the RIAA and other copyright holders ammunition to add more draconian measures to hardware and software to prevent consumers from copying music, that they have legally purchased for their personal use. If this trend continues, devices like MP3 Players would be rendered useless. Billy Boy, in order to kiss up to the copyright holders, has infected Windows Vista with various DRM enforcement cops which have a potential of preventing consumers from copying material that they have legally purchased and want to copy for backup under fair use. On the other hand the copyright holders have claimed that innovations to make music and movies more useful, are copyright infringing and sued the creators of the devices out of business. A balance should be restored to the copyright laws giving the purchaser of copyrighted material, the right copy those materials on other devices for their own use.

•••

tunnel4thewin

@xspedius.net

VPN tunnel

I now use a VPN tunnel through a private (overseas) server for all my torrent needs because of this kind of crap. My ISP's IP never gets into any trackers.

There is always a way around and people will find the way, until they make all music cheap, easy to get, high quality and some way to register it so you can redownload it if you ever lose it. Not this ITUNES crap where you purchase it and get one download and if your harddrive dies and you didn't make a backup, your screwed, buy it again. I use to pirate games all the time, till Steam came around which solved the majority of my hassles with PC games.

I do find it odd an ISP would want to work with these crooks, they must be paying the ISP well for these services, otherwise what benefit is there to an ISP to kick a paying customer?
k1ll3rdr4g0n

join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL

They will never learn

Well, this is yet another nail in the coffin for the RIAA.
Why are they so bent on chasing around little people who download the latest britney spears album? Isn't their time better spent on trying to figure out better ways to get us to whip out our wallets to buy overpriced music?

And I still don't get how the RIAA could "win" all those cases. I mean, any person who has any brains in law would go "Can you prove I actually violated any copyright laws?". The answer to that question is no. Simply because the majority of the "evidence" that the RIAA ever really had was that you were connected to a tracker. Legally, they can not seize your computer unless they had hard evidence; which usually they don't (just in case always have a drill bit handy!). And when they serve you with a list of media that they claimed you pirated. So, you grab some cash, buy those CDs/DVDs and countersue. And when you present that you owned all that media, the RIAA has 0 evidence that you did anything wrong (or didn't own the media before you priated the content)...you wouldn't even need a lawyer for that. The law never states that you can't download music you own, it just says if you own it you can have it in whatever format you want; MP3 or AVI. This is almost the same as the scam where people are calling up threating you about debts you never owed to companies and if you don't pay up you will go to jail.
/rant

All I know is that I will "opt out" of the piracy tax. It is really taxation without representation! The RIAA really just want to get money from the people who they know they can't catch because those people either know what they are doing or don't use trackers (or both!).

In the mean while, I am thinking about starting my own ISP. One where it wont bend over backwards for the law makers or the RIAA, and I don't care what you do with it as long as it adheres to US law. And if you get caught pirating, you have to pay a big fine to get back onto the network.
Who wants in?

P.S. Am I one of the few people who will actually stand up for what is right? I don't care how much money you have or how many lawyers are on your side, non of that will help you in violating my rights . Suing copyright violators is ok...make all of them share a cell with "Bubba" in jail, threatening people with lawsuits and settlements without any real evidence is not; the latter is called extortion and it is illegal - especially when you sue people that don't even own a computer.

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18

2 recommendations

Don't do music...

... but if a "Tax" is added to my bill, guess what!
I'll be maxing out my Comcast 250GB cap just for principle.

Just like sport fishing,
catch and release...
download and delete.

Asshats!
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera

Pole883
Premium
join:2004-01-27
Schenectady, NY
kudos:2

Re: Don't do music...

Q.E.D.

Ab-so-lute-ly!!

asdfdfdfdfdfdf

@Level3.net

I support collective licensing...

and I wish that the issue wasn't thrown in with these other issues because a 3 strike policy is appalling and it should be illegal.
They should not be able to cut off important communications services for people who have not been found guilty of anything in a court of law, based solely on the sometimes dubious accusations of private organizations.
I know people will say an isp can do anything it wants to with its lines. Then we should either aggressively break up concentrated control over communications infrastructure and enforce a competitive market or socialize the cost of building an open public infrastructure, as we did with the highway system.

The court lawsuits have failed so now they try to essentially privatize the process by acting as court and executioner so they don't have to go through the fussy legal process of proving anything.

This is many steps in the WRONG direction.
I had hoped, when I saw the headline, that it might indicate that the collective license is moving forward. Instead they are replacing one stupid policy with a policy that is even more problematic. They clearly haven't abandoned the bullying approach.
eqshadimar
Premium
join:2004-10-20
Plano, TX

A better way?

Here is a thought. Instead of disabling the Internet access of suspected pirates they just add on a sizable "tax" to their monthly bill. There problem solved. That was not too hard was it?

Think of it like a speeding ticket. You have to pay the fine and then your insurance rates go up. If you have lots of money and want to continue to speed just pay out money.

Laters,
Jeff

braps

@teksavvy.com

Re: A better way?

except the more speeding tickets you get, the more demerits you rack up on your licence, till its suspended

No to ESPN

@comcast.net

RIAA should be Investigated as a Front for Organized Crime

I wonder what such an investigation would turn up?

FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

Re: RIAA should be Investigated as a Front for Organized Crime

said by No to ESPN :

I wonder what such an investigation would turn up?
Nothing. They make use of the US legal system - which isn't against the law. Now if they were breaking the legs of pirates, maybe someone would have a case.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?
Abbnrml

join:2004-12-05
Barstow, CA
Just wait until the RIAA gets hit with RICO act charges. The law doesn't see a difference between an organization threatening an individual with bodily or financial harm to extort funds. Not to mention, by the RIAA trying to act as an enforcement division of the law, it is on the borderline of behavior that can lead to charges of impersonating a police authority.