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Tursiops_G
Technoid
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-06
Norwalk, CT
kudos:1

4 edits
reply to Jan Janowski

Re: Dell Inspiron 8100 Laptop LCD problem

Oops... Removed this posting in regards to Jan's last post above... I misread WHO Jan was replying to, and I started to give the wrong info... Jan is correct. My bad.

-Tursiops_G.
--
If You're Unsure, "RTFM"... If You're SURE, "RTFM" Anyway.

Drossvirex

join:2004-10-14
Great Falls, MT
reply to freakout9903

Re: Dell Inspiron 3700 Laptop LCD problem

I have a Dell Inspirion 3700 for a customer. It seems while I was replacing the fan that sends air out I may have damaged the screen. I was very gentle with the parts though! Now the screen is all dim and I suppose it's the CCFL. The CRT connection works. This laptop is pretty old so I don't know if I can even find the correct parts for the LCD. I haven't had much luck yet.

Drossvirex

join:2004-10-14
Great Falls, MT
reply to freakout9903

Re: Dell Inspiron 8100 Laptop LCD problem

Ok, if you read the post above you know my situation.

I got another laptop of the same kind. My partner happened to have one that was fried. Well I took the screen from that one and swapped and it was the same. So it's not a bad screen. I don't understand what else it could be? The laptop works in VGA output. It has to be something on the mainboard.

The second laptop that was fried, I found the peice that was bad. I don't know what it is... I think it's the Powerboard from what I've googled. Is this the Inverter? Or is the Inverter inside the LCD. If it is, it cannot be the Inverter.

Where is the video card? I'm not a huge laptop junkie, but if I replace the power board from the Dim LCD laptop into the fried one, the fried one works. So that eliminates this part from being bad.

What else can it be? It cannot be the screen, the powerboard or the video card. Or can it still be the video card even though it works in VGA mode? Can it be the motherboard itself?

Drossvirex

join:2004-10-14
Great Falls, MT
reply to freakout9903
UPDATE

Well I switched what I assume to be the CPU (videocard?) and it still did the same thing. I would assume now that it is the motherboard. I think the video is integrated. But it still doens't make sense that it works in VGA mode.

I'm going to order one on Ebay and I'll let you all know if it works.

daveywave7

join:2000-05-24
Chicago, IL
freakout/drossvirex

have you got the LCD screen to work yet?

i am in the same EXACT boat as you. i have the exact same 15.3" hitachi sxga+ TFT lcd screen with that same model number: TX38D99VC1CAA.

but i believe i know what we did wrong. while you had ordered a very very similar lcd inverter, made for a samsung lcd , i had ordered one made for an lbm lcd.

but now i just realized this inverter model is a j12i005.00 ambit chip. and looking to track one down currently. there is nothing on ebay, and google results a few unstocked items around. i will follow this thread up as soon as i get something going.

ps. my screen blinks red on bios boot then the backlight is off until next powerup.


dragon
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-30
Spring, TX
kudos:1
reply to freakout9903

(topic move) Dell Inspiron 8100 Laptop LCD problem

Moderator Action
The post that was here, and all followups to it, were moved to a new topic .. » LCD problem- Dell Inspiron 8100


Jason
Stowage Class Traveler
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-24
38.2967 Lat
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reply to freakout9903

Re: Dell Inspiron 8100 Laptop LCD problem

Holy thread resurection, Batman!

I too am in this same boat now.

Grrr..

Insperion 8100, with the exact same hitachi display as pictured above (TX38D99VC1CAA) and same story as Daveywave,
Screen blinks red for a split second on power up, but then remains off untill reboot. I used to build OIT embedded computers with either 10.4" or 15" displays, and in my experience Even tho I had replaced maybe 60 Inverters, there was only 1 CCFL failure that I recall. Those screens were NEC tho, not Hitachi.

So, has anyone had any luck finding a replacement card? I called screentekinc.com as they have the whole display module (for ~$500, IIRC) but dont sell just the inverters.. Screentek referred me to www.mpdparts.com who said they didnt carry dell 8100 stuff..

So, Here I am again, Stuck.
Grrr..

-Jason
--
...If you choose to pull the trigger
...Should your drama prove sincere
Do it somewhere far away from here.


Jason
Stowage Class Traveler
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join:2001-01-24
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reply to freakout9903
Quick update;

After a lot of web searching, I found a company (Bliss Computers) that seems to stock the OEM replacement inverter. Its $65 +$10 shipping. I ordered one, and will let you know how it works out.

-Jason
--
...If you choose to pull the trigger
...Should your drama prove sincere
Do it somewhere far away from here.


koam
Pink Pecker
Premium
join:2000-08-16
East Puddle
Reviews:
·OTT Communications
·Shoreham Telephone
reply to freakout9903
I had the sme thing happen with an Inspiron 5000 just after the warranty was up. I would advise you to BACK UP YOUR DISK now. Immediately after my LCD went bad, it worked on a CRT, but soon thereafter, it did not work on CRT either. And the whole machine started to go bad...just a day later.

At that point I could do nothing with the machine except take out the HD and get someone to extract my files for me.

Fortunately, I had purchased the machine on American Express and that covered 1 extra year of service...so after a repair shop declared it dead, Amex paid for my Inspiron 600m to replace it. Not so bad...but it was a problem while my machine was down.

Back up that disk.
--
Danieli Consulting LLC, Strategy and Brandinghttp://kdanieli.com


Jason
Stowage Class Traveler
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-24
38.2967 Lat
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reply to freakout9903
Bliss board came in.. Visually, its a perfect copy of the removed card.. Will post installation results tonight.

also found a company selling the CCFL tube for this display for $9.99

Will have more info later.

-Jason
--
...If you choose to pull the trigger
...Should your drama prove sincere
Do it somewhere far away from here.

stardotstar

join:2000-12-13
Barker, TX
Did this repair your issue?


Jason
Stowage Class Traveler
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-24
38.2967 Lat
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reply to freakout9903
Nope. Put the new inverter board in, plugged it in, and tried to fire up the laptop.. Same issue. Flashes red for a slit second upon boot, then not agian..

So, due to the process of elimination, there are only 2 possible problems left. 1) The CCFL tube itself is bad, and 2) the mylar cable that poweres the inverter is bad.

I decided to try for the CCFL first, With a deep breath, I started prying the retainer tabs on the screen open, to get to the tube..

The tube itself is running along the bottom of the screen, starting in the corner where the wires dissapear (Pink & Gray). I opened the screen only enough to unsnap the silver channel that holds the glass distibution plate, and the various "coating" sheets in place. the tube is running inside a channel in the white plastic frame of the screen. Its not really difficult to get out, however, i was astounded at how thin the CCFL tube really is.. Is a 2mm dia. tube, really no bigger than the pink wire going to it. Care and gentile handling are the name of the game here.

Once out (and as the screen sits now) Upon closer inspection, I find that the tube ends are blackened rather badly, and that a small bit of plastic had melted to one end of the tube, So at this point I have a rather good notion that the tube itself, and not the inverter was bad in my case. I will be ordering the tube sometime this week, and hope to get it in, and installed. Once everything is here, I will post website addresses, and part numbers, along with full prices here, as Im assuming some of the previous posters dont have their problems fixed yet..

-Jason
--
...If you choose to pull the trigger
...Should your drama prove sincere
Do it somewhere far away from here.


Tursiops_G
Technoid
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-06
Norwalk, CT
kudos:1

1 edit
Wow, That's unusual.

CCFL tubes normally have a 20,000 to 25,000 Hour Service life (that's down to 50% light output, BTW.)

If you don't have anywhere near that amount of hours on it, then You may just have had a Defective CCFL tube, or a defective Tube connector...

-Tursiops_G.
--
If You're Unsure, "RTFM"... If You're SURE, "RTFM" Anyway.


Jason
Stowage Class Traveler
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-24
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reply to freakout9903
Most CCFL I spec'd for our OITs I built a couple years back were 30-50K hours half-life, depending on the screen. This tube cant have more than a couple thousand hours *at Most* and still should have 95% of its life still..

thats why I went for the more expnsive, (but easier to get to) inverter card first.. I too assumed that the tube *should* still be good.

The only thing I can think, is somehow the envelope got compromised, and a slow leak might have developed, allowing atmospheric air in. (Nitrogen will arc redish / yellow, possibly causing the red flash at boot up?)

I still cant get over how thin these CCFL tubes are. All of the light coming from your laptop screen is coming from this thing no thicker than a quarter.

Amazing..

Oh, I in no way take any responsibility if anyone decides to hack into their screen. You will void any warranty you have on it, and you may even void your life and homeowners insurance

If HF High-voltage systems (>2,000V) or very delicate optics that dust will instantly kill make you squeemish, dont try ripping your display apart.

That said, Here are some pics of the tube itself.. Very, very delicate..








the website Im going to order the CCFL from : »www.lcdpart.com/Products/ms20305.html

Specs:
2.0mm Dia, 305mm Overall length.

-Jason
--
...If you choose to pull the trigger
...Should your drama prove sincere
Do it somewhere far away from here.


BA
Premium,MVM
join:2001-05-24
Vancouver, BC
reply to freakout9903
From what I've read over the years about notebooks, it's generally the CCFL that goes first rather than the inverter. I suspect it's a combination of issues: users often set their displays to maximum brightness, frequent opening/closing of the lid and cycling of the lamp, and inexpensive inverter and backlamp controller designs. The small diameter of the tube doesn't help either since the lid of the notebook isn't that well protected from pressure (from placing heavy objects on it).


Jason
Stowage Class Traveler
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-24
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kudos:3

1 recommendation

reply to freakout9903
Get some!

I am posting from the offending laptop, with display glowing in full glory!

Okay.. Yup, it was the tube

They are rather difficult to replace, and the replacement tube quoted above was ~3mm shorter than the original...

I will post pics of the process, as well as a tutorial of what I did come tomorrow, when Im not on dialup.

But its done, in, working, and a $20 fix.

Note: This panel is *not* considered a "replaceable tube panel. There is some soldering, and rather delicate yet frusteratingly complex steps involved.

Now: To log off, and put all the screws back in...

-Jason
--
...If you choose to pull the trigger
...Should your drama prove sincere
Do it somewhere far away from here.


Warzau
Premium
join:2000-10-26
Naperville, IL
kudos:1
reply to freakout9903
What size was your LCD. I replaced mine because the screen was scratched, rather badly by my little girl. I have the original one sitting now in a box.


Jason
Stowage Class Traveler
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-24
38.2967 Lat
kudos:3

2 edits

1 recommendation

reply to freakout9903

Inpiron 8100 Tube replacement tutorial..

Okay.. Here it is.. The bulb replacement tutorial. I take no responsibility whatsoever if you break your screen, But that said, if your going to try it, Heres what I did.

General assumptions:
1) You can solder (reasonably)
2) You have the display out
3) You havnt drank a pot of coffee..

Warnings:
1) These bulbs are *EXTREMELY* fragile (Especially the ends where the wires go in). Handle with a paranoid level of care.
2) The Brown mylar connectors that plug into the back of the screen are *EXTREMELY* fragile (I cant stress this one enough) No undue folding, flexing, handling, pulling, tugging, ripping cutting, etc..
3) Once opened up, ANY dust that falls into the screen will show up as little black spots on your screen.. Clenliness is paramount. (I have a few tiny black spots in my screen now.. Acceptable, but not optimal)
4) This is not a "replaceable tube" screen. These weren't meant to be broken into, so go slow, easy, and gentile.

Okay.. That said, Now to the fun stuff..

1) First off, we got to get the screen apart. I decided to not fully open the panel, instead leave the bottom (Copper sheet) connected and work in it "clamshell" style. No need to go cutting / prying anything we dont need to..

Start by prying out the tabs around the back of the screen.. I pryed out all the tabs I could see.


(Marked in yellow)

2) Once you have all the tabs pryed out, there are two "locks" at the top of the screen. Be aware of these.. If you just pull on the white plastic backing, it will flex (with the tube inside it) and likely break the tube.


I used a razor to gently pry out the sides, to release the locks.

3) Now with the panel opened a bit, youll see another piece of metal channeling.. This holds the light distrobution glass panel, and all the other "coatings" in. It can be removed by prying its metal holding tabs (Yellow marks) off the plastic backing. Pay attention to how the various sheets of stuff fit back together, as getting this channel back on is the most frusterating part.



Here, its off..



4) Okay, now youll see the tube in the plastic housing, Its held in place by 2 rubber caps. These caps will slide out, bringing the tube with it, Use a razor, and a steady hand to tease the endcaps out of their homes, and the tube will come out with them.

Ignore the arrows.. Theyll be explained later...


Now that the tube is out, wipe the sweat, grab a beer / smoke / Bawls whatever, and fire up the soldering iron.

..To be continued..
--
...If you choose to pull the trigger

...Should your drama prove sincere

Do it somewhere far away from here.


Jason
Stowage Class Traveler
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-24
38.2967 Lat
kudos:3

2 recommendations

Inpiron 8100 Tube replacement tutorial.. Part 2

Okay.. Once you have the bulb out, pull off the rectangular white rubber end caps, and set them aside.

Heres the old (with the wires attached) and new (on the cardboard) tubes.



Now you have a tube, with a couple wires on it.. Use your soldering iron (Less than 25 watt.. 15 watt is what I used) and de-solder the wires from the tube leads.. You can now make the light-saber sounds as you wave the old tube around.. Go ahead.. Ill wait...

Actually, breaking these tubes probably isnt a good idea. They contain Mercury vapor (Granted, a tiny amount) But Hg vapor is bad. Very, very bad.

Now, back to the soldering.. I couldnt find any information on how to designate the anode or cathode end of the tube, so I believe it doesnt matter for a CCFL.

The replacement tube is ~ 3-4mm shorter than the original, dont freak, shorter is okay.. longer, isnt. However, you must keep in mind that the tube is going to have to go back into those rubber endcaps, and back into the screen, so solder the wires on the lamp leads, a couple MM out from the base of the lamp.. This will also help prevent an excess amount of heat going back down the lamp lead, and possible compromising the seal at either end of the tube. Solder quickly, dont sit there with the heat on it.. This is bad for the lamp.

Also, dont bend the wires at the lamp base, bend them a mm or two away from the base.. again, no need going and breaking the seal around these wires..

Heres before, and after pics of my (beautiful?) soldering job.

Wires on the original tube


Hey, I said I could solder.. I didnt say i could do it *well*


Finally, use some thin needlenose (Or in my case, Mosquito forceps) to hold the wire at the base of the tube, and bend the connection around the pliers so it will fit into the rubber endcaps. The needlenose pliers will prevent the lead at the tube end from bending, or folding.. Remember: Paranoid level of care.

Replace the rubber endcaps,


and get ready to put the new tube back into the display.

The installation is pretty much the reverse of removal, however you need to be sure that the tube is sitting in front of one sheet of material, and the wire is outside that sheet.


See how the bulb is in fron of the fold in the white plastic sheet (yellow arrow)? and the wires are outside the fold? (red arrow)? Now, theres another plastic sheet (behind my finger) that has the fold going the other way (towards the back of the screen) This fold needs to also go above the tube, but under the wire. Make sense? These plastic sheets are responsible for "catching" as much light as possible, and sending them down, through the glass distrobution plate.

Heres a cheesy cross section of how it goes together..



There is another sheet or two of "stuff" that stays in front of the "front sheet" but I didnt put them in my diagram.

Once all the sheets are in place, and down. The wires are run, and in place, its time to put that metal channel back on. Theres no easy way to do this.. that channel holds all the various sheets of stuff in place, aganst the back of the panel. Pay attention to what youre doing here.. The plastic back of the display bends real easily, and your tube is in there held in place by its endcaps.. It would be very easy to snap the tube if your not careful.

It took me a solid 15 minutes to get that blasted metal channel back in place. Grrr..

But thats it!

Press the screen halves back together, and re-bend the tabs that hold it together back to their "locked" position

Gently re-connect the Inverter feed ribbon, and the screen data connector plug. Fire it up, and you should be greeted by the nice warm glow of a functional backlamp and screen!


Wheeee!


Ill post Websites, and PN# next.

-Jason
--
...If you choose to pull the trigger
...Should your drama prove sincere
Do it somewhere far away from here.


Jason
Stowage Class Traveler
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-24
38.2967 Lat
kudos:3

Re: Inpiron 8100 Tube replacement tutorial.. Part

Info:

I got the tube from »www.lcdpart.com

The part number is ms20305 (Im assuming 20305= 2.0mm dia, 305mm long)
Direct link: »www.lcdpart.com/Products/ms20305.html

Cost was 9.99 for the tube, 9.99 for S&H, plus California tax.

Total cost: $20.85

The inverter I purchased (as it turns out, I didnt need)
I got from Bliss Computers. »www.247laptoplcd.com
Part number: J12I005.00
Price: $65.00
Shipping $10
Total: $75.00

Direct link to part:
»www.247laptoplcd.com/laptopinver···pair.htm (first part on the left)

Bliss takes orders through paypal.

You can also order the whole screen from bliss, for ~300 refurb, IIRC.

Welp.. Hope this helps someone out there.
a $20.85 fix for what dell said was going to cost more than $1000 to repair. LOL

Good luck, and have fun..

-Jason
--
...If you choose to pull the trigger
...Should your drama prove sincere
Do it somewhere far away from here.

stardotstar

join:2000-12-13
Barker, TX
Jason, was it short because you mis measured or why?

Also, do you know what the Voltage output should be for the inverter to the tube?

Thanks


Jason
Stowage Class Traveler
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-24
38.2967 Lat
kudos:3
reply to freakout9903

Re: Dell Inspiron 8100 Laptop LCD problem

the tube was short, as that was the only replacement I could find. A few mm shorter hasnt caused any noticable darkening on either side of the display.

Im guessing that these companies that make / sell CCFL tubes probably only do so in certain "standard" lengths. It *may* be possible to find an exact length replacement *somewhere* on the web, but for my (impatience) I decided to go with a reasonbly easy to find replacement.

The Website I ordered the tube from touts it as a suitable replacement for the Hitachi Display I had, and such has turned out to be true.

As far as Voltages, I can only guess given the length of the tube, and dia. Id *guess* the breakdown voltage ("Kickstart") to be in the neighborhood of 1,200-1,500V, with the hold-on voltage somewhere in the 600-700V. But, again, these are just guesses.

I do know quite a few of the 300mm long color CCFL used in custom computer lighting run at 650-690V.

Hope this helps!

-Jason
--
...If you choose to pull the trigger
...Should your drama prove sincere
Do it somewhere far away from here.


CanYouRead
Premium
join:2002-06-28
Brooklyn, NY
reply to freakout9903
Thanks Jason, I am just looking for backlight to fix my compaq laptop lcd. For $20, I am sure will give it a try.

P.S. This is the instruction on how to replace CCFL, This is from the web site you order the tube.
»www.lcdpart.com/images/ccflinstallation.pdf


Jason
Stowage Class Traveler
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-24
38.2967 Lat
kudos:3
reply to freakout9903
yup.. Thats a rough guideline on how to replace lamps on a "Replacable Lamp" screen.

Alas, These arent a replaceable type screen. *Sigh* It would have been *sooo* much easier if it were.. LOL

-Jason
--
...If you choose to pull the trigger
...Should your drama prove sincere
Do it somewhere far away from here.

I have an Inspiron 8000 screen that I am willing to give away to anyone who wants it. I just purchased a new flex cable and backlight for it. Someone can use it for parts, particularly the CCFL backlight and flex cable.


Broken NEC

@iso.com
reply to Jason

Re: Inpiron 8100 Tube replacement tutorial..

I have a question: I was given a NEC 1525m LCD. It goes completely dim right after turning it on. If I hit the on/off button to shut it off and then again to turn on I can see the display for less than a second before it goes completely dim again. I searched the web and mostly found everything leading to replacing the "cold cathodes." So I removed the cold cathodes(first time ever opening a monitor; removed every screw I saw). There were two cathodes (one on top of the screen and one on the bottom). Is there any visible mark on the cathodes to tell that they are bad?

Any input will help. Thanks.


Jason
Stowage Class Traveler
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-24
38.2967 Lat
kudos:3
reply to freakout9903

Re: Dell Inspiron 8100 Laptop LCD problem

No reliable marks to tell that theyre bad as far as I know.. A darkening of the white tube at either end shows that its been used, but not nessicarily bad.

Sputter is usually the main cause of CCFLs going kaput. When the lamp turns on, a small amount of either the cathode, or anode (I dont recall which) literally vaporizes, and If memory serves me, somehow reacts with the mercury vapor causing it to become less effective over time. Eventually it gets to a point that the inverter cant keep up with the voltage demands of the tube, and shuts it off.

Even tho these things have anywhere from a 15-50 thousand hour "Half life" Its cycling the bulb on and off that puts the most wear and tear on it. Ive heard estimates from 10,000 to 50,000 cycles can kill the bulb.

Since you have the bulbs out, the cheapest solution would be to buy replacement bulbs and give them a try.. If that doesnt fix it, then its time to locate another inverter.

Hope this helps!

-Jason
--
...If you choose to pull the trigger
...Should your drama prove sincere
Do it somewhere far away from here.


Broken NEC

@mindspring.com
Jason
Only one(the top connector)of the CCFL "sputter"'s. The other (bottom) CCFL does nothing. So I interchanged them(thinking that the bottom CCFL is the bad one) but again only the top one sputtered. Is it normal that only one side gets power when the CCFL's failing?

Thanks.


Jason
Stowage Class Traveler
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-24
38.2967 Lat
kudos:3
Hmmm.. Unfortunately thats not to telling either..

It is starting to sound like the inverter card, but.. A bad lamp can cause this kind of problem too.. If the inverter cant start 1 of them, then it usually doesnt get the other one going either.. Depends on how smart the inverter is..

Sorry I cant give you any more help.

Id still say replace the tubes first.. Theyre probably the cheapest, easiest to find part (compared to the inverter)

-Jason
--
...If you choose to pull the trigger
...Should your drama prove sincere
Do it somewhere far away from here.


IntheDarkToo

@ny5030.east.verizon.
reply to luvwarmthpeoplepccom
I am in the midst of the I8000 backlight dimming problems
as well. I would love to take you up on your offer of a free I8000 screen. Please write: witslo@yahoo.co.kr Thanks.

luvwarmthpeoplepccom wrote:

I have an Inspiron 8000 screen that I am willing to give away to anyone who wants it. I just purchased a new flex cable and backlight for it. Someone can use it for parts, particularly the CCFL backlight and flex cable.