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| reply to calvoiper
Re: If the sky falls, can I hide on your property? I hate analogies
said by calvoiper:
A lot...
Committable...is more like it. Forgive me as it's been a long week and don't feel like HTML...
Over time, sure (how long they been around?) I don't doubt there's an inkling of truth to your claims. I just know there's usually two sides to every story with the truth meeting somewhere in the middle. You (always) just keep pointing at SBC as the culprits. This story was about rural ILECs.
SBC having all its subsidiaries isn't their creation. It was mandated this way. Besides, if you understood how it worked, you'd know it is more like a CLEC to CLEC relationship within subsidiaries than a couple of buddies trying to "put one over" on everyone.
I'm sorry. Who's regulating the internet? I missed that one. What's that groups name? Also, who's implying that anyone is forcing anyone to do anything?
I don't believe it's double talk. If I offer a service, there is usually a cost associated. I can either eat it or pass it on. Here's a simple one: I run a business selling perishables. The product I sell is available locally or online. I have many, many competitors all around the globe. The product I sell requires a two day delivery or it will perish (imagine that) and be useless to my customer. Now, just because my product is perishable, should I expect UPS (arbitrary) to ship my product over night, next day or two day air at the cost of Ground Rates?? Additionally, should my customer who paid my business me for the product assume that UPS will ship the package over night, next day or two day air at the cost of Ground Rates??? The truth is, UPS doesn't care WTF is in the package, they don't look inside the package, they just want to get it to its destination at correct delivery rate and time you paid for. They're operating a business too, and want to stay in business.
As the business owner, I've several choices:
1. I could create my own Express Delivery Service and deliver my packages in the time required at the true cost of delivery.
2. I could build the cost of over-night, next day or 2 day air into my product and a make it seamless to the end user.
3 I could just pass that charge along and let UPS bill me and in turn bill the customer directly for delivery.
4. I could have the customer pay UPS directly.
As the customer:
1. I can buy my product from someone who includes a delivery guarantee.
2. I am free to shop and chose any Express Delivery company out there that will guarantee my delivery at a rate I see fair.
3. I can skip the hassle and just buy the product locally.
Please tell me why as the business owner, I should demand that UPS deliver my product faster than what I paid for?
To quote Shakespeare, “The first thing we do, let’s kill all the lawyers.” Tell them to get in line and good luck. Your assuming there's a favor being done. I've clarified this. If I'm an ISP and you want me to prioritize any of your traffic. That's going to cost me, so I'm going to charge you. Last time I checked, that's capitalism at it's finest.
said by calvoiper:
"They understand that the revenue isn't in the application, it's in the access. "
I agree. SBC is again trying to monopolize associated markets based on their dominant position in access, and they will have mixed successes on the legal/regulatory front. What will be different this time is that there are other wires (and wireless frequencies) to the customer, so by the time they get done arguing that they have the ability to screw their competitor, but business will have passed them by.
This one I had to quote. What does SBC have to do with Rural ILECS? What evidence do you possess that shows SBC is degregading any of its customers IP traffic?
I think we're both just planted on different sides of the fence.
HJ | |
 calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA | We are indeed planted on different sides of the fence.
I don't quibble with the concept of charging extra for premium service. I just don't think you can do that and claim that some lesser service is your "best effort".
As for the relevance to rural ILECs, I identified a specific rural case (Volcano Telephone) where ISP related discrimination happened. I also identified various other ILEC schemes over the years to eliminate competitors. It's not just SBC. Most rural ILECs act similarly, and VZ, BS, and Qwest all fall in line.
Finally, that famous Shakespeare quote is widely read two very different ways. Dick the Butcher speaks it in Henry VI, Part 2 as part of a discussion about overthrowing the government and installing their own supposed utopia. Some read it as part of the utopia, and some read it as part of the things which must be done to overthrow the government and install yourself as dictator. We probably sit on different sides of this fence, as well.
Calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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