w2co
join:2003-07-16
Longmont, CO | reply to Nighttime5
Re: Welcome to the train wreck fokes "Like to see how you are going to force a company to string enough repeaters to remote places and still give any speed at reasonable cost."
Exactly, and somewhere between point A and point B there will be a licensed spectrum user keying up legally, and causing the whole connection to crash. What trash!
Better get tuned up. |
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 n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
 ·Optimum Online
| On the odd chance that they implemented it in my area (highly unlikely) then I would probably spend alot more time using PSK31 and RTTY. The 100% duty cycle would work wonders 
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I support the right to keep and arm bears. |
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| And in about 3 months your behavior would be reclassified as a felony. I do not understand why hams that do not like this tech have to come off as complete and total aholes because they think it might effect them. |
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| said by Trivista:
And in about 3 months your behavior would be reclassified as a felony. I do not understand why hams that do not like this tech have to come off as complete and total aholes because they think it might effect them.
That's the irony of BPL. It's based on Part 15 which is afforded absolutely no protection. Such action, regardless of ill intent or not, can never be classified as a crime. BPL has been built on such a weak foundation both technologically and legally that it can and will experience ingress interference and not be able to do a thing about it. Don't build your house out of straw and then complain when it rains.
It's not that we don't like the tech, we don't like the interference. |
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n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY Reviews:
·Optimum Online
| reply to Trivista
said by Trivista:
And in about 3 months your behavior would be reclassified as a felony. I do not understand why hams that do not like this tech have to come off as complete and total aholes because they think it might effect them.
As a "licensed" user of the spectrum, I do not have to accept interference but as a part 15, user BPL has to. If I am engaged in legal communications using the methods and frequencies of my choice then BPL is going to have to live with it or fix their technology so that it does not accept interference. The interference issue works both ways. The power companies just have not realized it (yet).
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I support the right to keep and arm bears. |
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w2co
join:2003-07-16
Longmont, CO | reply to Trivista
"And in about 3 months your behavior would be reclassified as a felony"
I highly doubt it sir, after all we are federally licensed to use said spectrum, and BPL is not. We can transmit as much power (up to our legal limit) in order to make reliable contacts under the current band conditions. Now the legal limit for us is 1500 watts DC, and we can have antennas with as much as 8-10 db of gain on those frequencies. This equates to an effective radiated power of around 15,000 watts right in the middle of the BPL spectrum. It's time now to start talking about the interference BPL will receive, not what it creates. We all know that. Being under part 15 rules, BPL will have no recourse regarding interference it receives, especially from a licensed service. But many do not know the hidden facts, all they know is what the marketers and politicians tell them and they believe it and blow off the engineers who know what will really happen! No wonder this country is in shambles. I for one will be damned if I will trash my hobby of 35 years and all my equipment collected and maintained over those years just for a bunch of know nothing bitheads who think they can just steamroll us off the airwaves just so they can play games and download porn faster. If you don't have broadband where you live - move. It's that simple. |
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 John GaltForward, MarchPremium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:3 | reply to w2co
HAH-HA!
de KB6JAW |
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 AJ5TT
join:2003-08-17
Friendswood, TX | reply to Trivista
DAldredge
Think you have it backwards. Interference to licensed users is punishable by a fine or jail if the offender continues to operate. BPL is not a licensed service of the spectrum. |
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 N3OGHYo Soy Col. "Bat" GuanoPremium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:1 | reply to w2co
Another issue to consider.
Interference from BPL will essentially force Amateurs to increase the power they need to use to establish communications, therefore, increasing interference to BPL.
This is an ill advised "technology". The power companies would be better served opening up their right of ways to fiber, or investing in fiber themselves and eating the telcos lunch. |
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| reply to n2jtx
And what you refuse to accept is that the laws can be changed and if you piss off enough people they will be changed to make your protest illegal.
Hams are going about this the wrong way. You sound like a bunch of babies and that isn't the way you sway the public (the people who vote) to be on your side. |
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| reply to AJ5TT
I know that. That is why I said the laws would be changed. You may go to dict.org to look up that word if you need.
People who make threats like this are not helping the public image of Hams and in matters where the people you are fighting have a lot more money than you, public opinion helps a lot.
Rethink your message and stop issuing such threats or the laws will be changed. |
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| reply to w2co
What part of LAWS will be changed did you not understand? I am saying that acting like childern, and that is what these threats are, is counterproductive.
You want to get people on your side? Provide examples of real world, simulated if necessary, trouble that BPL will cause. Driving around in a car listing to a shortwave news broadcast will not work. You have to convince the public that their saftey is threated as they will think that shortwave news isn't that important when they can just turn on their AM/FM/XM radio.
Wake up to reality and understand that laws can be changed and that the people you are fighting have a lot more money and contacts in DC than you do. |
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| reply to Trivista
I wonder what part of the Part 15 rules you don't understand. Simple terms: BPL must not interfere and must accept interference from licenced users of the spectrum. Amateur radio is a licensed service under Part 97 rules.
People like you have already made up their minds. "If HAMS don't fall into line, you will be pushed aside" is your mantra and you refuse to budge. Neither will we. We will operate within the rules and the laws. |
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| The laws of the United States of America are not written in stone. They can be changed. That is what the Congress does.
If I am mistaken about this please let me know what those people in DC that we elect do.
You need to learn to read what people are writing, not what you think they are writing. I am not saying that Hams are wrong, I am saying that Hams need to understand PR and stop acting like kids. I haven't stated my position on BPL anywhere in this thread. |
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| reply to moonpuppy
Although I don't think it's a good idea, I think DAldredge is saying that if you Hams don't play nice we'll make your hobby illegal. I hope it doesn't come to that, but it wouldn't surprise me if BPL supporters try at some point. |
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| reply to moonpuppy
You do not understand. With the BPL Industry arriving, there is now more money in making HAM illegal, then continuing to protect it with current laws. If HAM activity interefers with the money making activity of BPL, then the laws WILL be changed, and very quickly.
Do you understand now? |
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w2co
join:2003-07-16
Longmont, CO | reply to Trivista
I don't have to fight anybody on this, fact is we have been using that spectrum since the early 1900's and still is today, alot of your technology was formed from ideas directly invented by us hams. The laws will not change in the way you predict at all, if anything they will change against BPL because of interference to licensed services. Just wait until someone gets killed because of BPL interfering with some vital communication, or an aircraft crashes etc. etc.. The shit will hit the fan then I assure you, Heads will roll but the licensed users will prevail. A lesson to the uninformed - You cannot cheat the laws of physics! |
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| reply to rmrper
said by rmrper:
Although I don't think it's a good idea, I think DAldredge is saying that if you Hams don't play nice we'll make your hobby illegal. I hope it doesn't come to that, but it wouldn't surprise me if BPL supporters try at some point.
They can try, but there's no basis for it. The medium isn't designed to handle ingress interference. If it was twisted pair or coaxial cable, there's natural shielding to keep out foreign signals. Also, it will probably be very, very difficult to identify ingress interference to pin it down to an Amateur, if it was intentionally happening. I'm not saying it's right, that's just the technical realities.
BPL would have an easier case to acquire dedicated spectrum. On the HF bands, this is handed out in kHz, not the megahertz upon megahertz that BPL needs. |
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| reply to w2co
Mr. BPL it's time to meet Mr. Kilowatt.
What's ironic is that the electric company will profit from my high electric bills instead of the mysteriously failing BPL. |
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| reply to Trivista
quote:
And what you refuse to accept is that the laws can be changed and if you piss off enough people they will be changed to make your protest illegal.
Dude, Bush had that same train of thuoght with wanting to write discrimination into the constitution. He was promptly shot down, even before the SCOTUS had a chance to overturn it.
The world is meant to be shared by everyone. And everyone doesn't have to bend over backwards so that you can download pr0n and warez over BPL. The laws *aren't* going to be changed to allow wilful interference. |
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