KCT2002
join:2004-12-01
Palo Alto, CA | horsewash... Ben Edelman makes a living creating a false sense of insecurity related to these claims. Ask Ben who has paid him for services. Ask Ben who he's "asked" to pay him for services.
I don't disagree that Claria has an extensive EULA. I also don't agree that pop-up advertisements can be annoying. But I also find it ridiculous that we make such a big deal about something that (1) requests consent at install regardless of it's length (2) includes an entry in add/remove programs (3) provides attribution in its pop-ups.
The Internet is full of agressive activity associated with Internet advertising... see AOL, Real Networks, etc. Everyone has their hand in these advertising methods. Let's stop being hypocritical and self-righteous about what is right and wrong and take responsibility for our own actions. If you lack the patience or intelligence to understand Claria's process or how to uninstall it, then you shouldn't be operating a computer. |
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 RayMahnahmahnaPremium
join:2001-04-02
Mesa, AZ | I smell Claria shill... |
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KCT2002
join:2004-12-01
Palo Alto, CA | Not the case but not a surprising claim since I speak some voice of reason that counters the thought process here. |
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 DanTrailer Park SupervisorPremium
join:2002-12-17
Eh?
 ·Rogers Hi-Speed
| reply to KCT2002
I find your last statement to be something that you can't backup.
However much we want to think that we are "1337 broadband hax0rz", who are "tEh w00t", average Joe and Jane need a pc to communicate with friends, family and to do their jobs.
GAIN is the worst type of adware, something you don't really need, but it helps funding. Even though this software is evil, yes I do understand that advertising is paying for much of the "free" non-opensource software on the net, but isn't it going to far when the software is often impossible for the average computer user to remove?
Personally, I feel that GAIN should give the users an option during the installation. Put the warning in big bold letters saying, "GAIN Advertising will be installed along with your program. GAIN is part of Claria Advertising and will popup target ads, and possibly contact you via Post. Do you want to continue?"
Screw putting a 67 page EULA. Simply let the users know in a sentence or two what the extra software bunlded is, and let them choose. Remember it must be bold, and the continue/next button should be disabled for 10 seconds while you wait for the user to read. I think this would clear up ALOT of headaches for Claria, perhaps even make them into a respectable company that only delivers the marketing to the users who want it.
Someone has to want to "GAIN" inches in just weeks... right?
-Dan
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Looks like another ID 10 T error. |
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KCT2002
join:2004-12-01
Palo Alto, CA | reply to KCT2002
Last time I checked, I don't think there was anything subtle about the manner in which Claria positions itself on the Kazaa install. I suggest you return and see for yourself.
I strongly believe that people need to be more accountable for their own actions and stop blaming others for their own lack of attention in their computer usage. |
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DanTrailer Park SupervisorPremium
join:2002-12-17
Eh? Reviews:
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| Yes, but my point is this:
If we are going to allow this type of advertising, which DOES leads to eventual machine hijacking (by this I mean how the pc slows down and grinds to a halt) by advertising. Average Joe, does not relate this to GAIN Advertising that was installed. However, if it were pointed out in a few sentences to him that this will allow advertising, and advertisers to target him, then he may
•Choose not to install the software
•Choose to install the software, but understand where it is from, and why.
When users don't understand they blame someone or something, usually the IT staff, or the "Damn computer". If there were Bolded warnings that forced you to read them, the user would understand what it is, what it will do, and why the system is recieving popups/spam.
In the end, we agree on the same thing, that the user needs to take more responsiblilty, but my road to that is the marketer needs to inform the users simple of what they are doing, educating the user.
Education is the key to civilization and understanding, however not all pc users know how to educate themselves. Therefore if Claria wants to cut down on the work load, teach the users. (But I have a suspicion that they are making more money by not teaching the users... if ya know what I mean).
So BOTH parties should take the responsibility, the users, and the advertisers. Share it, learn.
-Dan
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Looks like another ID 10 T error. |
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KCT2002
join:2004-12-01
Palo Alto, CA | reply to KCT2002
Bolded warnings? C'mon. When is the last time you read a EULA from Microsoft, AOL, Real Networks that said "we're going to slow down your PC" in bold font?
The biggest culprit of slowing down a machine is anti-virus, anti-spyware and firewall software. Have you ever let Norton run persistently with all its bells and whistles? Zone Alarm turns your PC into a billy goat.
You actually hit the only problem I really have with any adware... degredation of my computer's performance. But plenty of applications cause slowing of a PC not just Claria. |
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| reply to KCT2002
said by KCT2002:I don't disagree that Claria has an extensive EULA. I also don't agree that pop-up advertisements can be annoying. But I also find it ridiculous that we make such a big deal about something that (1) requests consent at install regardless of it's length (2) includes an entry in add/remove programs (3) provides attribution in its pop-ups. The gator eula is 63 pages long, and severely restrictive. That's the point. You can try to weasel out of it but it's clearly a dirty trick.
The Internet is full of aggressive activity associated with Internet advertising...
and of these gator is one of the most infamous. Ever think maybe it's for a reason? Every think maybe people are tired of the harassment, and some people want to fight back?
and yes it is harassment.
see AOL, Real Networks, etc. Everyone has their hand in these advertising methods.
advertising, malware, espionage, all the same thing right?
not everyone has their hand in making it. Say the average internet user for example.
Let's stop being hypocritical and self-righteous about what is right and wrong and take responsibility for our own actions.
again most users are not into making malware, spam ect. Is it self righteous to want the harassment to end? Is it? I fail to see the hypocrisy. Throwing big words around won't help you.
If you lack the patience or intelligence to understand Claria's process or how to uninstall it, then you shouldn't be operating a computer.
if you lack the sense to understand what is wrong with their methods then you shouldn't be on their pay roll. |
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| reply to KCT2002
said by KCT2002:The biggest culprit of slowing down a machine is anti-virus, anti-spyware and firewall software. Have you ever let Norton run persistently with all its bells and whistles? Zone Alarm turns your PC into a billy goat. You actually hit the only problem I really have with any adware... degredation of my computer's performance. But plenty of applications cause slowing of a PC not just Claria. Funny I get people to run adaware and they tell me how much faster their pc is. It's cleary a problem no matter how you try to spin it. |
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| reply to KCT2002
interesting that you don't deny it. |
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| reply to KCT2002
KCT,
Every time I uninstall PCs loaded with spyware,
they run as if factory new again.
A lot of downloads are "drive by" downloads -
a user accidentally goes to the wrong site
or clicks on a popup they meant to dismiss,
and suddenly they are infected.
I often have to go beyond what anti-spyware
programs do and delete all of the .exe
and .dll files I know for a fact don't belong there.
You are wrong that anti-spyware programs slow
a machine down. Yes, some other protective
programs do (I always disable Norton Crashguard,
for example), but remember, the most common
anti-spyware programs such as Adaware, Spybot,
Hijack This, CWShredder do not stay resident
in memory - they are run by the user, on-demand,
and release the memory they use upon exit. |
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| reply to KCT2002
said by KCT2002:I also don't agree that pop-up advertisements can be annoying. As I suggested in my prior response to one of your earlier posts - apparently, you personally have no problems with invasive, aggressive, advertising practices. Well, let me inform you that the remaining 99.999999% of the population does have a problem with them. My eyes and what they percieve, are mine to control. No-one has a right to force anything in front of them that I don't want them to. Likewise, no company has some sort of right to install software onto my computer in a secretive or deceptive manner, and then attempt to contractually bind me to prohibit its removal.
said by KCT2002:The Internet is full of agressive activity associated with Internet advertising... see AOL, Real Networks, etc. Everyone has their hand in these advertising methods. Let's stop being hypocritical and self-righteous about what is right and wrong and take responsibility for our own actions. If you lack the patience or intelligence to understand Claria's process or how to uninstall it, then you shouldn't be operating a computer. Couldn't that statement also be taking in the context of any "agressive internet advertising" practice? Translation - if you can't manually un-install the hundreds of various mutations of CoolWebSearch - you shouldn't be allowed to use a computer.
I mean really... WTF?
I'm a highly-techical user, and haven't had spyware/adware installed on my machine for years, but it has required a fairly extreme level of vigilence to do so. Most users either don't have the experience, technical knowledge, or willingness to adhere to a fairly strict set of rules and limited choices of applications in order to enforce that. I've cleaned up many computers with "advertising-ware" crap infesting them to the point of being largely non-functional.
Is that situation acceptable to you? As long as the ads get shown, who cares what happens to the state of the user's computer, right? You must work for them, clearly... |
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 Ginger5Premium
join:2002-03-24
Madison, WI | I agree with VirtualLarry "Likewise, no company has some sort of right to install software onto my computer in a secretive or deceptive manner, and then attempt to contractually bind me to prohibit its removal."
I'm exhausted with removing malware from buddies PC's who didn't pay for a $1600.00 USD paperweight.
Regardless of EULAs (I read them religiously) it's time for legislators to step up to the plate. Perhaps our mission is to elect them  ??
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We tweak it because it's there. |
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