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113171
nozzer
join:2004-06-25
Winchester, MA

nozzer to CSV

Member

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Re: Emails not getting through to my email account

Independent email services worth their price should be running authenticated SMTP on a DIFFERENT port (e.g. 465, for Secure SMTP, or 587, the SUBMIT port). Almost all email programs allow alternative ports to be configured. As I've said - outbound port 25 blocking is commonplace.
Also there should be nothing to stop the ISP carrying ALL email for their customers through their server (verification is done simply by IP address). Verizon, it would seem, prevents emails that don't have a "verizon.net" domain in the "from" address. Another example of their lack of talent.

noz

mckenna797
Premium Member
join:2004-08-25
Astoria, NY
Netgear CM700
Asus RT-AC68

1 recommendation

mckenna797 to gracie7

Premium Member

to gracie7
Thank you all for expressing an interest in the class action against Verizon. I believe I have already sent you an e-mail with some follow-up questions. Many of you have already responded. Thank you.

For those of you who have not yet responded, you can fill out a form at »www.kohnswift.com/verizon.htm rather than e-mailing me. If you already provided me with the information I requested, you do NOT need to fill out this form also. You may want to look at the web site for further details about the case.

I or someone else from our firm may be contacting you in the next few days. We appreciate your participation.

Sincerely,
Jessica Khan

SammieBE
@dal1-4.xx.214.xx.dal

SammieBE

Anon

I'm not signing up, I'm not a US citizen and I don't want to be involved in any legal arbitration. But I made several posts in this thread as the anonymous user SammieBE and I'm willing to repeat or confirm those posts if asked by a Kohn Swift lawyer.
I can be reached at my "spam e-mail address" filiphumble@yahoo.com

gwion
wild colonial boy

join:2000-12-28
Pittsburgh, PA

gwion to Laser0

to Laser0
Here's the original story. The class action suit was on the front page several days back.

»Verizon Class Action

--- detailed discussions of the suit, or any other class action suits, are directed there... or somewhere other than here. This is just a re-affirmance of long standing forum policy against "class action" threads and solicitations as a whole. It's always acceptable to mention any pending litigation in the context of news or as information in a related thread, of course; however, it's not acceptable as a standalone posting or thread topic. Some of you may not have been around long enough to remember some of the good old threads from the good old days, but it became very distracting and deviated us from the primary purpose of the forum, sharing information and solutions on neutral ground, user to user. Thus, soliciting membership in here, or otherwise "spamming the class," are, of course, straight out.

"fair warning."

mookiemcdermot
@mindspring.com

mookiemcdermot to Laser0

Anon

to Laser0
I dunno if this will work or not. Goto netmail.verizon.net and login. Click on options under your "check my mail" link. You might have to click "check my mail" first. Aside from the "block senders" and spam filters there is a field to greenlight domains, I forget what it is exactly.

Add your missing email domains to this list and please post if you have success receiving mail from these domains. This should allow all mail from doamins in this list to reach you. Please post your results for the benefit of all users.

-mookie
nozzer
join:2004-06-25
Winchester, MA

nozzer

Member

How many times am I going to have to repeat myself. No amount of adding domain greenlights is going to help.
Verizon has chosen to BLOCK THE IP ADDRESSES of ALL overseas machines. If I go to an overseas machine and type "telnet relay.verizon.net 25" (in other words make a simple connection to their mail server) i get NO RESPONSE. This is because THEIR FIREWALL blocks the connection before it even gets to the server.
Some email servers will get through for overseas ISP's that can be bothered to go through the hassle of getting Verizon to ADD AN EXCEPTION FOR THEIR IP ADDRESSES to the firewall.
Most can't and just tell their customers "Sorry, Verizon are just a bunch of 'tarded f%^kwits"
noz

POed at VOL
@dsl.netsource.ie

POed at VOL to Laser0

Anon

to Laser0
Mookie, the block that Verizon have implemented has nothing to do with domains. They have blocked IP ranges, not domain names, and there's a big difference. Any mail server that is using an IP address in one of the blocked ranges is simply prevented from even reaching the Verizon mail servers in the first place, so there is never any domain name available to be "greenlighted".

For example, if I try to make an SMTP connection to the Verizon SMTP connection from my servers, the verizon network just ignores the connection:
[root@smtp1 root]# telnet relay.verizon.net 25
Trying 206.46.170.12...
telnet: connect to address 206.46.170.12: Connection timed out

The "block" is only on SMTP traffic - I can still ping that server, for example:
[root@smtp1 root]# ping relay.verizon.net
PING relay.verizon.net (206.46.170.12) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from relay.gte.net (206.46.170.12): icmp_seq=0 ttl=239 time=130 ms


The evidence is incontrovertible - Verizon simply blacklisted significant portions of the European IP address space, and then whitelisted some of the more well known European ISPs. They didn't tell their customers about it, and, significantly, they didn't tell their "technical support" staff about it either, so even if customers noticed that e-mail was missing, they couldn't get it fixed. And because ordinary customers typically won't know what the source IP address of the missing e-mail might be, they couldn't get it fixed, even if they told tech support that they wanted to get e-mail from "joe.bloe@somedomain.xy", because "somedomain.xy" isn't what's blocked, and if joe.bloe@somedomain.xy has migrated to superisp.pq, but is still using his somedomain.xy mail address (perfectly legitimately), then the IP addresses of superisp.pq are the ones that must be whitelisted to allow legitimate mail through.

It looks like the scumbags at Verizon have weathered this storm by sending their pig-ignorant spokesmen out to smear anyone who complains about this idiotic policy by saying that "if you're complaining about this, you must be a spammer". And it looks as though the media couldn't be bothered making an issue of it.
POed at VOL

POed at VOL to nozzer

Anon

to nozzer
Some email servers will get through for overseas ISP's that can be bothered to go through the hassle of getting Verizon to ADD AN EXCEPTION FOR THEIR IP ADDRESSES to the firewall.

My experience of trying to communicate with Verizon to try to get them to stop blocking my IP address range is that they have absolutely no interest in talking to me, because I'm not a Verizon customer.
phaedo5
join:2002-01-09
Bedford, TX

phaedo5 to sir didymus

Member

to sir didymus
said by sir didymus:

My experiences with Verizon is that they have such a dysfunctional organization that you will probably need to get 15 or 20 managers interested before anything *really* happens.
Try working for them... 8-) You're on the $$$.
phaedo5

phaedo5 to techie68

Member

to techie68
said by techie68:

Apparently, Verizon is blocking email coming from open relay mail servers. Essentially, this means that all email coming from servers that don't have an authentication process are being blocked.
They've always done that. On multiple levels: firewalls (72 hour spam violation blocks), routers, mail servers (black holes), and the mail system system itself (blocking IP's, users and domains). And it wasn't just open relays. Harvesters were a big pain in the butt.

This, however, is something more serious and akin to a policy shift.

sir didymus
Premium Member
join:2004-12-22
Snohomish, WA

sir didymus to phaedo5

Premium Member

to phaedo5
said by phaedo5:

said by sir didymus:


My experiences with Verizon is that they have such a dysfunctional organization that you will probably need to get 15 or 20 managers interested before anything *really* happens.
Try working for them... 8-) You're on the $$$.
Yeah, I suppose I'm (unfortunately) vindicated by the fact that in spite of several news articles (Wired, Washington Post, The Register, etc) they STILL haven't fixed the problem...

I guess it could be worse... THEY could be merging with AT&T... ;>
sir didymus

sir didymus to phaedo5

Premium Member

to phaedo5
said by phaedo5:

said by techie68:


This, however, is something more serious and akin to a policy shift.
Correction: This is more akin to sheer ludicracy...

It's almost as if we're reverting to the days when AOL users could only e-mail AOL users and CompuServe Users could only e-mail other CompuServe users...

mckenna797
Premium Member
join:2004-08-25
Astoria, NY

mckenna797 to Laser0

Premium Member

to Laser0
Well today i had my cousin in italy send me an email to check if they had been put on my whitelist and the mail did get through

gracie7
Geek Goddess
Premium Member
join:2003-07-15
confusion

1 recommendation

gracie7

Premium Member

TOTALLY TICKED OFF!

i was promised three weeks ago that the one single addy (in england, a business, not an isp user) that i really need to receive emails on my verizon account from would be unblocked (there was absolutely no reason to block it in the first place---they are not spammers, and when they send through their u.s. server (same exact addy) it isn't blocked.) they promised me to do it faster than the two week b.s. they are touting.

repeated calls resulted in a promise on tuesday that it would be done "within 48 hours". then today, i actually received a phone call from verizon, telling me it had been unblocked. happy it was FINALLY done, i sent an email to the england company from my verizon addy and asked them to hit reply to test it out...IT BOUNCED back to him! just like all the others.

i'm lucky in that i have two business domains i can send and receive email on, so i'm not dependant on verizon for receiving from europe. but this one account is one i usually email from home, where my verizon addy is the default; when i send from home, unthinking, and he hits reply, it bounces back to him. hence my pushing only to have that one addy unblocked.

i'm fed up. after repeatedly saying that i didn't think a class action suit was the way to get verizon to change this ridiculous policy, i'm starting to think maybe it's the only thing that has a chance of working.

and i'm STILL simmering over the "use the phone" comment from their spokesman.

Gerryanna
@verizon.net

Gerryanna to deoris

Anon

to deoris

Re: Let's do something!

I finally decided to join the class action brought by a Philadelphia law firm Kohn, Swift & Graf. You can check it out at »www.kohnswift.com/ This firm as a good rate of success representing consumers against mega-companies like Verizon.

I have been trying to resolve the issue with Verizon since the beginning of December, when I realized that none the emails from my friends in Great Britain or Russia are getting through, (nor my emails were getting through to my correspondents there). To date, I have opened about 20 "problem tickets" with Verizon to no avail. Verizon asked me for the list of emails and domains of my correspondents so that they would "unblock" them just for my account. I gave that list to Verizon already four times. Each time, representatives left me a phone message that the domains had been "unblocked" and I should have no trouble receiving/sending email. Needless to say, still not a single email made it through. However, I continue to receive plenty of free gift/Viagra spam which apparently does not bother Verizon as much as international emails.
Gerryanna

Gerryanna to Laser0

Anon

to Laser0

Re: Emails not getting through to my email account

I am finnaly fed up after two months of empty promises by Verizon to clear it up with email blocking. I stiil cannot receive any emails from Europe. I finally decided to join the class action brought by a Philadelphia law firm Kohn, Swift & Graf. You can check it out at »www.kohnswift.com/ This firm as a good rate of success representing consumers against mega-companies like Verizon.

GaborL
@verizon.net

GaborL to pog4

Anon

to pog4
"Why on earth would Verizon want to encourage people to go with 3rd party email services?"

Did it occur to anyone, that Verizon primarily is a phone company. Phone companies lost a lot of business since the emergence of internet and email. Could this be a clumsy attempt on the side of Verizon, to block email and force people to make long distance calls?

Gabor

POed at VOL
@dsl.netsource.ie

POed at VOL

Anon

That suggests a level of intelligence at Verizon that isn't evident from anything they've had to say on the issue.
nozzer
join:2004-06-25
Winchester, MA

nozzer to GaborL

Member

to GaborL
This is exactly what the man from Verizon said - "If its really important you might want to use the phone"
Outstanding, truly Outstanding!
noz
mezzeta
join:2005-02-17
Italy

1 edit

mezzeta

Member

Truly amazing.
I send 20-30 emails a day from my home here in Italy via 2 email accounts (personal & Business) every Verizon address gets bounced back, all others sail through. To send to a verizon email I need to go via Hotmail on the web.
Why isn't this big/bigger news???
I have now spent an hour warning a NYC buddy not to change to Verizon because he has many contacts in Italy and the UK.
mylogon0
join:2005-01-16
Walnut Creek, CA

mylogon0 to techie68

Member

to techie68
Maybe you need to learn what open relay actually means. No reputable server has open relay. ALL email programs have the availability to use authentication - in fact it is the default in Exim, Postfix and Qmail. I think you mean what type of authentication. The old standard was pop before send - the new one is smtp authentication. If you are running a server with open relay you deserve to not only be blocked - but to be shut down by your ISP. Only an idiot or a spammer configures a server to be an open relay.

And what is with the bashing of people not in the US. Do
you think all Europeans and the Japanese are idiots? They use the exact same MTA's as the rest of the world.

Look up the open relay blocking lists. If you or your friend server is on there - follow the instructions to fix the problem. It is simple, and saves the server owner both time and money.

Voyager2K2
join:2001-10-04
Wayne, PA

Voyager2K2 to kshymkiw

Member

to kshymkiw
said by kshymkiw:

said by techie68:

I finally got an answer to this question, which actually kind of surprised me. Now, to let you all know, I work for Verizon dsl tech support (yeah, I know... we're all a bunch of idiots), and we were never informed about this change. Apparently, Verizon is blocking email coming from open relay mail servers. Essentially, this means that all email coming from servers that don't have an authentication process are being blocked. Open relay mail servers are typically hotbeds for spammers, as no authentication is necessary. Unfortunately, many email servers in Europe (and the rest of the world for that matter) are open relay. This is yet another brilliant idea that some idiot who doesn't know jack about computers making decisions for the company. I expect this to blow up in their faces sooner rather than later.

Good luck to all of you. I would definitely email security@verizon.net and complain heartily about this.
He is correct, being a Verizon tech as well, this was just explained to us. It is to block Scams and Spam. You have to call us and we have to Verify the e-mail address it is coming from, this can take up to 2 weeks to do.

From Verizon:
In Brief:

VOL has changed its Blacklisting policy as part of our constant goal to reduce spam, viruses, phishing and other email threats. Security has been inundated with notifications of abuse during the holiday season. Due to the increase in abuse and email threats that VOL has experienced, some VOL customers’ email service may be partially disrupted.

Blacklisting:

VOL reserves the right to block IPs or Domains of suspected spamming sources. If a customer calls in and is able to send email to a customer but is not able to receive email from the email recipient (more prevalent from countries outside of the USA), the following troubleshooting steps should be completed:

Process for Blacklisting:

1. Have the customer verify that forwarding is not enabled on the account.

2. Have the customer log in and check their Block Senders List.

3. Ensure that the customer inputs the domain into the Safe List.

4. The customer should then be informed that, due to security issues, policies are in place to protect all VOL customers. There is no ETR for these issues, but they will be resolved as soon as the recipient’s email domain has been validated (at least 2 weeks).

5. Then create a ticket using the OSC template that includes the domain, the mail server’s IP addresses, email servers and other pertinent information.
The a$$hole in charge of VOL's email servers is Paul Wilson.
The SOB would never give me a straight answer on the Comcast 8-10 hour email delays that have gone on for years now.
I have said for years VOL has the spam filtering hardware but no one who knows how to properly use it.
I rest my case.

AP5
join:2001-10-15
West Covina, CA

AP5 to Laser0

Member

to Laser0
Even after disabling spam detector, which mysteriously turns itself on all the time, I am still missing emails.
A lot of things are not getting through and there is no sign anything was ever sent.
Rod P5
Premium Member
join:2003-02-09
Purcellville, VA

Rod P5 to Laser0

Premium Member

to Laser0
I checked my account with several friends today in Germany and the Netherlands and E-Mail's sent from their accounts to my Verizon E-Mail account, are, in fact, not showing up... and its been over 12 hours. The same messages sent to my other ISP arrive in less than one minute. Something certainly is broken.

I've notified "security@verizon.net" as suggested elsewhere in this thread.

Rod P
Rod P5

Rod P5

Premium Member

February 28, 2005 7:00 AM EST Update...

E-mail sent this weekend from Europe has not arrived, nor has E-Mail sent early today, Europe time (2:00 AM EST) has not arrived at any of my Verizon E-Mail addresses. Copies of these E-Mails have arrived at my other ISP (Roadstar), all within seconds of having been sent from Europe.

Rod P

gracie7
Geek Goddess
Premium Member
join:2003-07-15
confusion

gracie7

Premium Member

said by Rod P5:

E-mail sent this weekend from Europe has not arrived
i'm confused; returning late to this thread so haven't read through all the new posts, but are these addresses that you have specifically whitelisted, and the whitelist isn't working?
Rod P5
Premium Member
join:2003-02-09
Purcellville, VA

Rod P5

Premium Member

One other comment...

The people in the uk, de and nl are not getting any indication that their E-Mail messages ARE NOT getting to me! Messages sent this weekend and today, not delivered, have not been notified of any delivery problem. I would note that the addresses in Europe sending me these test E-Mail messages are addresses that have been in use for over 10 years! They are business firms!

Rod P
Rod P5

Rod P5 to gracie7

Premium Member

to gracie7
said by gracie7:

said by Rod P5:

are these addresses that you have specifically whitelisted, and the whitelist isn't working?
What is a "whitelist"? I don't know what you are talking about. Are you saying I now have to generate a list of E-Mail addresses outside the US, inorder to continue to communicate with them via my Verizon account?

gracie7
Geek Goddess
Premium Member
join:2003-07-15
confusion

gracie7

Premium Member

said by Rod P5:

What is a "whitelist"? I don't know what you are talking about.
guess it wasn't me who was confused . This thread was started because verizon decided to block almost all international emails, and told its customers that if they wanted to unblock a specific addy, they had to call and whitelist it. while most of us did that with the one or two that we usually receive mail from, it is a PITA, and ridiculous for those who receive a lot of mail from different international addys.

did you read the thread from the beginning? i suspect that somewhere along the way, it got diverted, and both you and i may have missed a lot .

there is a class action lawsuit going on now about this. also covered earlier in this thread.
Rod P5
Premium Member
join:2003-02-09
Purcellville, VA

Rod P5

Premium Member

gracie, you're right, I am the one who is confused. With 11 pages of messages, I did not read them all. Bottom line is that I certainly don't like the issue and will have to pursue it further with Verizon. Thanks for your responses.

Rod P