Re: This is asinine in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r12365207 en Sun, 29 Nov 2009 01:33:08 EDT Sun, 29 Nov 2009 01:33:08 EDT Re: This is asinine http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12381366 T_Hoffman : evidently you haven't ROFL LMAO]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12381366 Fri, 14 Jan 2005 09:06:48 EDT Re: This is asinine http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12377846 JimmySask : I haven't tried their new AS program, but along with MS not agreeing to a EULA, is there not an option to choose which of found spyware/adware files you wish to remove? If so, then it truly is not their problem if the customer chooses to remove the files. The only issue that remains is if they are taken to task by the *ware vendors for identifying the *ware programs as such. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12377846 Thu, 13 Jan 2005 20:27:40 EDT Re: This is asinine http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12369840 keith2468 : If you break an EULA that you agreed to, the other party to the agreement (the Vendor) can sue you for damages.

What damages do you think the courts would award Claria and require you to pay them?

If none, there is no penalty.

As far as MS goes, as noted, it didn't agree to the Claria install.
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(Virus&Hijacking FAQ + Submit suspected malware + Backups FAQ + Security FAQ TOC)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12369840 Wed, 12 Jan 2005 23:23:59 EDT Re: This is asinine http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12369178 cork1958 :
said by Karl Bode See Profile:

Foster notes that's Microsoft's stance:

quote:
Silly me - I should have guessed. Of course, Microsoft isn't violating anyone else's EULA. It's you, the Windows AntiSpyware customer, who is solely responsible for violating your solemn contractual agreement with Claria, DirectRevenue, or whomever. You have a solemn contractual agreement with Microsoft that says so.


Personally the EULA issue doesn't interest me.

What interests me is Microsoft facing a choice: Improve their security standing by sticking to their definitions of ad/spyware, or morphing those definitions like Aluria did at the behest of adware vendors, after being offered lucrative marketing deals.....
Personally, the whole program doesn't interest me! I'll stick with Adaware, Spybot and Spywareblaster for the reasonbly very short time frames I DO use IE even.
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Spread Opera, fastest browser on earth or Cyberspace!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12369178 Wed, 12 Jan 2005 22:17:15 EDT Re: This is asinine http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12367138 pcscdma : What would happen if my hard drive's Master File Table "accidentally" lost the references to notGator's software?
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/sbin/shutdown -h now]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12367138 Wed, 12 Jan 2005 18:58:23 EDT Re: This is asinine http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12365638 3SGTE : Heard of sarcasm?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12365638 Wed, 12 Jan 2005 16:14:56 EDT Re: This is asinine http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12365580 joebear29 :
said by underscore See Profile:

said by joebear29 See Profile:


said by the W:



That is true, but the person who agreed to install the "spyware" software in the first place would be violating the EULA by using Microsoft's removal software to rid themselves of the spyware. Of course we know that government agencies wont be busting down your door if you do so.
Of course they would. What does that have to do with Microsoft?
How can I be violating an EULA that I never agreed to? Claria installs their software secretly. Using external software to remove another program just proves I never agreed to anything.
It is assumed (for the sake of this argument at least) that the agreement is enforceble and the user agreed to its terms. In the real world, both premises are likely false, but they are neccesary to even discuss whether Microsoft is violating the EULA.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12365580 Wed, 12 Jan 2005 16:09:00 EDT Re: This is asinine http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12365570 T_Hoffman : heard of cash? pay with cash and you own everything down to the bolts that hold the wheels on]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12365570 Wed, 12 Jan 2005 16:07:55 EDT Re: This is asinine http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12365299 3SGTE :
said by inteller See Profile:

Claria's EULA isn't worth the paper its printed on. It would be like Ford telling me I can't take my car to a mechanic to work on the car they built and I agreed to buy.
Acutally you don't own the car....
;)
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The preceeding post may contain dry humor. Insert intelligent text here.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12365299 Wed, 12 Jan 2005 15:40:53 EDT Re: This is asinine http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12365256 inteller : Claria's EULA isn't worth the paper its printed on. It would be like Ford telling me I can't take my car to a mechanic to work on the car they built and I agreed to buy.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12365256 Wed, 12 Jan 2005 15:37:13 EDT Re: This is asinine http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12365207 anon : :DYes the gov would bust down your door. The corp that used the EULA would cry and complaine while passing the cash to the DOJ, next thing you know, you have some special elite squad kicking your door in. Best way around it all? Buy a Mac. Duh. No spyware.. yet.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12365207 Wed, 12 Jan 2005 15:32:32 EDT Re: This is asinine http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12365173 underscore :
said by joebear29 See Profile:

said by the W:


That is true, but the person who agreed to install the "spyware" software in the first place would be violating the EULA by using Microsoft's removal software to rid themselves of the spyware. Of course we know that government agencies wont be busting down your door if you do so.
Of course they would. What does that have to do with Microsoft?
How can I be violating an EULA that I never agreed to? Claria installs their software secretly. Using external software to remove another program just proves I never agreed to anything.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12365173 Wed, 12 Jan 2005 15:29:10 EDT Re: This is asinine http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12364892 GercekSeytan : I admit anything is possible. It just that I would think the folks at Redmond would realize that a significant part of what contributes to the MS bashing and keeps the folks in the Security Forum hopping is caused by these marketing-above-all lowlifes.

On the other hand, there's always hubris.
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"Be careful. Journalism is more addictive than crack cocaine. Your life can get out of balance." Dan Rather]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12364892 Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:57:57 EDT Re: This is asinine http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12364840 Karl Bode :
quote:
Considering the size of Microsoft (financially or otherwise) and the relative pittance they might be offered by Claria, et al, versus the immediate and gleefully inflicted harm the company would receive from one and all, it seems highly unlikely they would cave in.


I don't know, Claria, WhenU, 180Solutions and their ilk are getting very wealthy - and in turn very powerful, very quickly. Full support of the direct Marketing Association too, who knows this is a mega-monster profit source over the next decade.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12364840 Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:51:11 EDT Re: This is asinine http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12364819 GercekSeytan : Considering the size of Microsoft (financially or otherwise) and the relative pittance they might be offered by Claria, et al, versus the immediate and gleefully inflicted harm the company would receive from one and all, it seems highly unlikely they would cave in.

Much to lose, little to nothing to be gained.
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"Be careful. Journalism is more addictive than crack cocaine. Your life can get out of balance." Dan Rather]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12364819 Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:49:00 EDT Re: This is asinine http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12364817 Karl Bode : They're Microsoft, they could do pretty much anything they like, but they won't.

Shame too, because it's a good shot for them to dig in their heels and establish themselves as serious about PC security.

Of course if they were serious about PC security they'd update non XP2 versions of IE, so I suppose that's a moot point. :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12364817 Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:48:59 EDT Re: This is asinine http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12364776 joebear29 :
said by Karl Bode See Profile:

Foster notes that's Microsoft's stance:

quote:
Silly me - I should have guessed. Of course, Microsoft isn't violating anyone else's EULA. It's you, the Windows AntiSpyware customer, who is solely responsible for violating your solemn contractual agreement with Claria, DirectRevenue, or whomever. You have a solemn contractual agreement with Microsoft that says so.


Personally the EULA issue doesn't interest me.

What interests me is Microsoft facing a choice: Improve their security standing by sticking to their definitions of ad/spyware, or morphing those definitions like Aluria did at the behest of adware vendors, after being offered lucrative marketing deals.....
Yeah, I read that bit. He still seems to think the only reason Microsoft is not violating Claria's EULA is because a sentence in Microsoft's EULA shifts that burden to the user, as opposed to the real reason, which is no one (not even Microsoft) can violate a contract they did not agree to.

But that silliness aside, I do agree the main issues is whether Microsoft can maintain the integrity of the spyware removal product. I agree with you, in that I doubt they can, even if they had the best intentions; Microsoft is simply too large and vulnerable to bad press and lawsuits that adware types can bring to bear if they feel their software is unfairly listed.

Spyware removal is a game for small businesses or non-profits, not corporate behemoths.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12364776 Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:43:31 EDT Re: This is asinine http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12364702 joebear29 :
said by the W:

That is true, but the person who agreed to install the "spyware" software in the first place would be violating the EULA by using Microsoft's removal software to rid themselves of the spyware. Of course we know that government agencies wont be busting down your door if you do so.
Of course they would. What does that have to do with Microsoft?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12364702 Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:36:04 EDT Re: This is asinine http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12364683 Karl Bode : Foster notes that's Microsoft's stance:

quote:
Silly me - I should have guessed. Of course, Microsoft isn't violating anyone else's EULA. It's you, the Windows AntiSpyware customer, who is solely responsible for violating your solemn contractual agreement with Claria, DirectRevenue, or whomever. You have a solemn contractual agreement with Microsoft that says so.


Personally the EULA issue doesn't interest me.

What interests me is Microsoft facing a choice: Improve their security standing by sticking to their definitions of ad/spyware, or morphing those definitions like Aluria did at the behest of adware vendors, after being offered lucrative marketing deals.....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12364683 Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:34:13 EDT Re: This is asinine http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12364681 anon : That is true, but the person who agreed to install the "spyware" software in the first place would be violating the EULA by using Microsoft's removal software to rid themselves of the spyware. Of course we know that government agencies wont be busting down your door if you do so.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12364681 Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:33:21 EDT Re: This is asinine http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12364665 sabrex15 : very well put.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12364665 Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:31:37 EDT This is asinine http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12364631 joebear29 : To put it bluntly - Since Microsoft never agreed to Claria's EULA, Microsoft can't violate it. And there is no law saying Microsoft (or anyone else) can't make a program to remove the adware/spyware.

Whether or not someone using the spyware removal application violates the EULA they agreed to with Claria (even assuming it is enforcable) is not Microsoft's concern. Did the guy who wrote this article ever read anything about contract law?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12364631 Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:27:56 EDT