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ericka7
join:2005-01-15
Lake Mary, FL

ericka7

Member

accepting collect calls from prison???????

Re: [Vonage] Collect Calls from prison

hi... my name is ericka.. im currently in florida right now and my boyfriend just got locked up on Friday jan 14.... he lives in long island new york and im pretty sure they took him to suffolk county jail in long island.. im still trying to get info from his friends.. I currently have vonage They currently dont allow collect calls and i need to have collect calls because i want to talk to him while hes in jail..SO HOW WOULD I GO ABOUT GETTING collect calls OR TALKING TO HIM WHILE HES IN PRISON I DONT WANT HIM TO THINK I DONT WANT TO TALK TO HIM.... VONAGE DOESNT OFFER collect calls.. DOES ANYONE KNOW WUT I SHOULD DO?????? I HEARD THAT 1800 NUMBERS FOR PRISONS DONT WORK EITHER....someone please help me.. thank u

pcmeet
Official Dta Guru
join:2003-09-15
Montgomery, AL

pcmeet

Member

Get a virtual number "from Vonage $4.99/month" to be local for the area he is in, he can call that number for free and it will ring your Vonage line.

»www.vonage.com/features. ··· e_number
ericka7
join:2005-01-15
Lake Mary, FL

ericka7

Member

yeah but they can only make collect calls so how would that work?

pcmeet
Official Dta Guru
join:2003-09-15
Montgomery, AL

pcmeet

Member

Not sure if there any provider that will allow collect calls, one choice left, get a landline.

usa2k
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MVM
join:2003-01-26
Westland, MI

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Re: Accepting collect calls from prison???

»[Packet8] Prison Calls

»[Vonage] Collect Calls
And I see you added to this one.

There was good info, but no good solution as I recall

PCInTech
keeping art alive since 1953
Premium Member
join:2004-06-07
Massena, NY

1 edit

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Re: accepting collect calls from prison???????

Ericka, I understand you're in a very stressful situation right now and I empathise with you. As usa2k pointed out, we discussed this at length with another forum participant several weeks ago. I had many PM conversations with that person as well, and did quite a bit of research for him into the situation. Unfortunately, we never DID find a way for that to be done with a VoIP service. Most State's DOC rules require absolute verify-ability of the number being called, and since VoIP (and CELLULAR, TOO!) recipients can be located just about anywhere, they have no way of doing that. Some States even require background screening and investigation into people on an inmate's "allowed" call list. My suggestion to you would be to check carefully into the NY State DOC's rules regarding inmate phone calls, as well as any deviations from those for a specific facility. If you don't know who to ask at the DOC or the facility, have a 3rd party do this for you, like a Chaplain or other clergy-person with familiarity at that facility. If I come up with any information on NY's regulations, I will let you know. Best of luck in this trying time, and my best wishes are with you and your boyfriend.

(Added info) Calls by inmates in the NY State DOCS system must be made through a long distance carrier under contract with the State, at State mandated inmate rates. (Higher, much HIGHER than regular LD Collect rates!) These calls can only be made collect to pre-approved, pre-screened recipients on NORMAL wired telephone lines to locations that can be verified by the DOCS with the LOCAL phone utility company. The following are NOT allowed under any circumstances: Cellular calls, Toll Free Line calls, Calls to numbers that are REDIRECTED or FORWARDED in any way or using any kind of "call-around" or 3rd party operator assisted calls. So, in short, this sounds like you're strictly limited to paying a small fortune to receive calls to POTS line, only. There's currently a lawsuit against the NYSDOCS by an Inmates' Advocacy group, but it seems to be stuck in legal Limbo. The State of NY dictates the cost of the phone calls, which is exorbitant. This extra "fee" placed on the family members of inmates supposedly funds inmate and family support programs, and also pays a HUGE kickback to the State. MOST other States have similar regulations and limitations. I'm sure this subject will come up again, as more people are aware of VoIP, and mistakenly may think it could be a way to "get around" the abuse of inmate's families, so at some point, we may consider making this a FAQ in this forum. I wish I had better news for you, Ericka.

WhyADuck
Premium Member
join:2003-03-05

1 recommendation

WhyADuck

Premium Member

said by PCInTech:

The State of NY dictates the cost of the phone calls, which is exorbitant.
True. Not all the criminals are in the jail, some are running it!
said by PCInTech:

This extra "fee" placed on the family members of inmates supposedly funds inmate and family support programs ...
And if anyone believes that, I can get you a great deal on this bridge in Brooklyn...
said by PCInTech:

... and also pays a HUGE kickback to the State. MOST other States have similar regulations and limitations. I'm sure this subject will come up again, as more people are aware of VoIP, and mistakenly may think it could be a way to "get around" the abuse of inmate's families
Bingo. I'm glad to see that someone else sees the situation for what it is.

As hard as it might be, I'd like to see someone organize a boycott by friends and family of prisoners against such calls. Because basically, what the state is doing is punishing the friends and family, many of which have committed no crime at all. It sort of reminds me of stories I've head about communist China, where they will shoot a dissident or prisoner, and then send the family a bill for the bullet. Viewed one way, what our states are doing is even worse, because with the ripoff rate charged on those phone calls I'm sure they make far more money than the government of China might make off charging for those bullets.

Erica, may I suggest that you consider writing letters to your boyfriend. Not only will you avoid being victimized by the state department of corrections and whatever phone company they made a sweetheart deal with, but your boyfriend will be able to re-read your letters over and over and will have tangible evidence that you do care. Just be careful what you write, and be aware that both prison officials and other inmates may potentially read your letters (prison officials can listen to your phone calls, too). You might want to omit your full return address (particularly the street address) from the letter and envelope.

You might also check with the prison and see if you can send your boyfriend a cassette tape recorder/player and then mail him tape cassettes that you have recorded. He could then record messages back to you over the cassette and send them back. This is older technology that the prison just might allow, depending on their rules and the security level (if it's a maximum security institution this may not work).

Eventually, as landline usage declines, I think the states are going to be forced to revise their policies. Collect calls will likely become a thing of the past when the concept of "long distance" disappears, just as "person to person" calls have pretty much gone the way of the dodo since regular phone rates have dropped significantly. I have heard that in some places, prisoners are now being given the option to purchase phone cards that can be used to make calls (they may still be restricted to a list of pre-approved numbers, though).

roamer1
sticking it out at you
join:2001-03-24
Atlanta, GA

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said by PCInTech:

These calls can only be made collect to pre-approved, pre-screened recipients on NORMAL wired telephone lines to locations that can be verified by the DOCS with the LOCAL phone utility company. The following are NOT allowed under any circumstances: Cellular calls, Toll Free Line calls, Calls to numbers that are REDIRECTED or FORWARDED in any way or using any kind of "call-around" or 3rd party operator assisted calls. So, in short, this sounds like you're strictly limited to paying a small fortune to receive calls to POTS line, only.
As I've said time and time again: corrections officials are stuck in 1995...when cell phones were still a luxury and when cell bills of several hundred dollars a month (NOT including LD!) weren't uncommon, before the Telecom Act (just TRY finding a CLEC that will accept billing for collect calls), and before VoIP and "find me follow me" types of services were even invented. When will they move on along with the rest of the country?

FYI -- I will provide free web space (on my dedicated server) and a free domain to anyone interested in devoting a web site to this issue.

-SC
roamer1

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said by ericka7:

SO HOW WOULD I GO ABOUT GETTING collect calls OR TALKING TO HIM WHILE HES IN PRISON
You're going to have to contact BellSouth and get a POTS line. In FL a stripped-down POTS line with minimal local calling should be around $20/mo, NOT including the collect charges.

(You're also going to have to figure out how to get your new number to him.)

Sorry

-SC
roamer1

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said by WhyADuck:

As hard as it might be, I'd like to see someone organize a boycott by friends and family of prisoners against such calls. Because basically, what the state is doing is punishing the friends and family, many of which have committed no crime at all. It sort of reminds me of stories I've head about communist China, where they will shoot a dissident or prisoner, and then send the family a bill for the bullet. Viewed one way, what our states are doing is even worse, because with the ripoff rate charged on those phone calls I'm sure they make far more money than the government of China might make off charging for those bullets.
I absolutely agree with you. Corrections officials say the increased cost of calls is to cover security arrangements, but it's fairly well known that that's not really the case, and money is going elsewhere in the form of inappropriate commissions and kickbacks. Further, "taxing" family/friends of inmates and lawyers via the high phone rates is just plain sickening -- it's no different than the China bullet thing, or (as is done in some states) seizing a car used in a crime that isn't owned by the person who did the crime, only to auction it off to the highest bidder.
Eventually, as landline usage declines, I think the states are going to be forced to revise their policies. Collect calls will likely become a thing of the past when the concept of "long distance" disappears, just as "person to person" calls have pretty much gone the way of the dodo since regular phone rates have dropped significantly. I have heard that in some places, prisoners are now being given the option to purchase phone cards that can be used to make calls (they may still be restricted to a list of pre-approved numbers, though).
There are really two problems with inmate calling:

a) corrections officials being stuck in 1995 -- the obsession with collect calls (which can be made to fewer and fewer phones now given the increasing prevalence of wireless, CLECs, VoIP, etc.) and bizarre "security" requirements that preclude use of much other than ILEC POTS lines, such as verifying the identity of parties to be called, prohibiting use of call forwarding (even static RCF arrangements) and three-way calling, etc.

b) the fact that there is no choice of carrier for such calls, which of course leads to abusive rates; there's been talk of a "billed party preference" arrangement for inmate calls, which would permit recipients of calls to specify a carrier to handle the calls and thus provide a modicum of competition, but the FCC never really acted on it.

You are 100% correct re: prepaid calling arrangements.

-SC
stufried
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join:2003-10-13

2 edits

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The American Friends Services Committee has been a vocal opponent of the super-high collect call rates.

»tinyurl.com/5v5np

The articles are informative in terms of protest and legislative action which can be taken. In my prior posts (linked to by usa2k) I've posted some interim steps which can be taken. While virtual numbers can save you boatloads in this situation, they can also cause you problems.

If you find out who the collect call provider is for the facility and contact them, you can usually set up an account to receive collect calls. The largest of these providers is at:

www.correctionalbillingservices.com

As long as the VOIP number is listed in the book where the calls are received, the fact that it is VOIP is usually fine.

I"m not sure by the way whether one of the telco voip services can accept collect calls. Even though it is a couple of bucks more expensive, you might want to research:

»www22.verizon.com/ForYou ··· ome.aspx

Caveat emptor.
nzrr1
join:2004-02-24
Denver, CO

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Can he call a Toll Free Number? Vonage offers a Toll Free Number option
stufried
Premium Member
join:2003-10-13

stufried

Premium Member

prisoners generally cannot call toll free numbers (even collect).

roamer1
sticking it out at you
join:2001-03-24
Atlanta, GA

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said by stufried:

The American Friends Services Committee has been a vocal opponent of the super-high collect call rates.

»tinyurl.com/5v5np
It doesn't surprise me that the Quakers (a group I've always had a lot of respect for, btw) would...
As long as the VOIP number is listed in the book where the calls are received, the fact that it is VOIP is usually fine.
If by "book" you mean "phone book"...then you're getting into a whole new can of worms about trying to get numbers in the book via miscellaneous-account-billed foreign listings and such...
I"m not sure by the way whether one of the telco voip services can accept collect calls. Even though it is a couple of bucks more expensive, you might want to research:
I know that Time Warner's Digital Phone *does* allow receipt of collect calls, but AFAIK, neither AT&T CV nor Verizon VoiceWing do.

-SC
stufried
Premium Member
join:2003-10-13

stufried

Premium Member

said by roamer1:

said by stufried:
As long as the VOIP number is listed in the book where the calls are received, the fact that it is VOIP is usually fine.
If by "book" you mean "phone book"...then you're getting into a whole new can of worms about trying to get numbers in the book via miscellaneous-account-billed foreign listings and such...
* * *
-SC
I was not advocating a fraudulent local listing. You are correct about the problem about the problems about getting a VOIP number listed. If you start with a telco line, list the number, and then port it, it works much easier.
ericka7
join:2005-01-15
Lake Mary, FL

ericka7

Member

ok now i have another ?...... does anyone know which provider the ny correctional facilities use? i think its mci? im not sure..... im pretty sure but the thing is i looked on the new york state website for him and i still cant find ne thing about him and i contacted his family and they said that they havent heard ne thing from him either and im starting to really worry.. i was going to just write him letters but now i dont even know if i can do that.....
stufried
Premium Member
join:2003-10-13

stufried

Premium Member

First make sure that your friend is in State Facility. From your prior post, I would bet that he wasn't. YOu stated that he was just arrested. Typically, people who are just arrested are held in county facilities. Jails are local facilities which house individuals charged with offenses and individuals serving small sentences (e.g. drunk driving). Prisons are run by the states (or feds) and house persons serving longer sentences.

On top of all this, there are federal facilities (e.g. Marshall facilities and Prisons). Since individuals in those facilities can make prepaid calls at $0.15 a minute, I don't think this is who you are talking about. While the fifteen cents a minute might seem like a high rate on this forum ("what do you mean 'ten cents a minute to India' what a rip off"), it is "blue light special" compared to the state system.

First figure out where he is at. Then check the website for the facility. If that doesn't work, brew a pot of coffee and call the jail and hold. When you finally get through, tell them that your phone is having problems receiving collect calls (keep the VOIP stuff to yourself) and ask for the name of the collect call provider so that you can try to set up a direct account with them. They can give you the number.

dlhusk1
Premium Member
join:2002-06-29
Carrabelle, FL

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Ericka...My name is Danny and I am also in Florida. I have a son in South Carolina prison System and I checked all of the avenues for getting a way for him to be able to call me. packet8 would allow me to get a local number near his prison but that was useless becuaes he is only allowed to make collect calls. I could find no cellular or VOIP phones that would allow you to get collect calls.

The reason that the states have it setup that inmates can only make collect calls is that they get a portion of the cost of the collect call, it goes back to the state coffers, sounds a little underhanded to me but that is how it works.

If you are able to get a landline there is a place called »www.prisoncallsonline.com that can save you considerable money on collect calls, you may want to check it out.

Also my son has been in for about 6 months now and has I guess about 8.5 years to go unless God intervenes and I have found lots of support at »www.prisontalk.com, there are litterally thousands of members there from all over and you can get lots of info and feedback from likeminded persons.

Maybe I will see you there, my handle there is GladDad.

I hope it all works out, God Bless You,
Danny

Bink63
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join:2002-10-06
Everywhere

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I managed to find the website for the Suffolk County Jail, not much info there, but there are contact numbers you can call to try and get better info...

»www.co.suffolk.ny.us/web ··· &ID=1937

Regards,

Randy
ceocio
join:2004-04-16
Columbus, OH

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That really sucks... I didn't know prisons were allowed to make profit out of this... and yet no one has ever said "no" to the system?
said by dlhusk1:

The reason that the states have it setup that inmates can only make collect calls is that they get a portion of the cost of the collect call, it goes back to the state coffers, sounds a little underhanded to me but that is how it works.


dlhusk1
Premium Member
join:2002-06-29
Carrabelle, FL

dlhusk1

Premium Member

Ceocio, The prison system in South Carolina is the one that I speak of because I have first hand knowledge of it, I am told that other state prisons are run similarly. The reason that they are run that way is because there are not many people per capita that have someone they know in prison, so they are not a loud voice.

Also in SC I cannot send a Care package to my son I have to send cash money to a thing called Cooper Trust Fund, from that money the state has been taking 10% off the top to pay $250.00 for a DNA test, I have to pay that in essence. Also they had a system setup where you could order food and clothing packages for Christmas at exhorbant prices and the state gets a portion of that. South Carolina has a very puritanical Attitude about how they run their prison systems..It is like "IF YOU HAD RAISED YOUR CHILDREN RIGHT THEY WOULD NOT BE HERE" so now you pay!

My son has been waiting for way before Christmas to get a small radio that he has to order from the Commisary at a cost of $13.00, I could buy and send the radio for less than $10.00, and to top it off he has not even gotten it yet! Told it was on order.

Forgive me for rambling.
Danny

captblaze
join:2002-02-15
Pontiac, MI

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this may sound cruel, but send him a cake with an AT&T calling card in it....
stufried
Premium Member
join:2003-10-13

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prisoncallsonline does the same thing we were discussing and which you can do yourself and IS CONSIDERED "call forwarding" by most prisons.

Step 1. Figure out what is a local call from the prison;

Step 2. Step 2, setup a local number with the telephone company with remote call forwarding to you in the a different city. Select a long distance provider with reasonable rates and no monthly fee;

Step 3. Violate prison rules (with all the attendant risks), and place the local number on the prisoner's calling list with a fake local address;

Step 4. Police your conversation to not give away that you are violating prison rules and pray like h'll that you don't get caught.

Their comment that it doesn't violate prison rules is laughable and evasive. Almost every county in the United States has a jail. All fifty states have prisons. Add the federal stuff into the mix and you are talking about thousands of institutions (even assuming uniformity of rules in a given system, e.g. the "New YOrk System"). Each of these rules is written up by a low level bureaucrat. Are they seriously suggesting that they've read all these rules?

On the other hand, it gives you a certain level of denialability (particularly if you are not forced to lie about your address). This might mitigate the punishment.

Stu
ceocio
join:2004-04-16
Columbus, OH

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dlhusk, best wishes to your son..
Good person can be jailed for wrong reasons, it happens all the time.. But that's beside the point... Prisons should never be allowed take kickbacks from these businesses at all...

I am just surprised that no one has ever picked on this, given this is a country that probably has the biggest number of lawyers and civil rights advocates... well, I guess sueing prisons isn't a profitable business...
stufried
Premium Member
join:2003-10-13

stufried

Premium Member

It has been tried. There was litigation in New Jersey and Illinois on it. They went down in flames. The FCC has taken a hands off policy on the issue. The prison collect call companies also always route the calls out of state and back in an attempt to create hurdles for state public service commissions.

WhyADuck
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join:2003-03-05

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WhyADuck

Premium Member

[Rant mode ON]

I just hope all of you will remember this thread the next time someone goes on a flag-waving binge and tries to tell you that the United States is the greatest country in the world. Maybe it is (though I'm sure residents in many other Western nations might dispute that) but if so that doesn't say much for the world, and in any case we still have a long way to go. The stupidest thing we ever did was to set up a legal system that gives a corporation the same legal standing as a real, flesh-and-blood human being. Because most corporations are both better off financially than most individuals, and collectively have a lot more brain power going for them, and a lot more person-hours to accomplish what they want to do, any individual is at a disadvantage when fighting a corporation.

Why is that applicable to this thread? Because we have two evil players conspiring to victimize the families of prisoners here. One is the corporation that actually provides the phone service to the prison - if they would refuse to participate in this little kickback scheme, it wouldn't work (of course you may say that some other equally evil corporation would step in and do it, but since when is the fact that someone else is going to do evil to make a profit justification for doing it first? Only in the corporate world would that sort of thinking make sense. I mean, suppose you lived in a bad neighborhood and your neighbor persisted in leaving his shed open at night - would you steal his lawnmower just because you know that sooner or later somebody else probably will? Honest individuals don't think that way, but in far too many corporations it's a totally different mentality, and often one without any sense of normal morality or decency).

The other player, of course, is the government itself - not just the prison system, but also the state and federal legislators that turn a blind eye toward this sort of abuse. But then, these are the same folks that are starting to put up traffic light cameras (while simultaneously decreasing the "on" time for the yellow traffic signal) so they can cite more people for traffic offenses, without even having to have an officer present to make sure that the right person is being cited. In other words, it seems the the criminal justice system is making a slow turn from being primarily a correction/rehabilitation system to a revenue-producing system, which is one reason that they are trying to criminalize so many activities that in the past would have been seen as limitations on personal freedom.

I'll just bet that someday, somewhere in the world (might be in the U.S. but doesn't necessarily have to be, because large multinational corporations exist all over the world), there will be a civil war that at the core is a war between the common people and the large corporations. If the government of the country sides with the corporations, it will seem as though it's a war against the government, but that won't be the root cause. And I'm not saying the result of that war will necessarily turn out anything better (look at the result of the Communist revolution, that sure didn't turn out well!).

Anyway, my point is that people are asking why no one ever does anything about stuff like this and my response would be twofold: First, because most people refuse to recognize that the problem exists, and think that if it really were a problem the government would take care of it (when in this case, the government IS part of the problem). And second, because when an individual does wake up and realize there is a problem and the government isn't going to fix it, they feel powerless to do anything about it. Which is not a real comfortable feeling, so in most cases they just put the blinders back on and pretend it doesn't exist. Meanwhile, we are all suffering death by a thousand cuts, as our government becomes more and more oppressive and the corporations become more and more ruthless.

The only way that many problems of this nature will ever get fixed is to decrease the influence of large corporations. Stripping them of their legal status as a "person" would be a great start, in my opinion, but also we need to figure out some way to stop corporations from entering into "unholy alliances" with governmental entities (by this I mean, alliances where a corporation convinces the government to do something that oppresses people or erodes their freedoms, just so that corporation can make greater profits).

Hope this makes sense. I'm getting to the point where with my general health and family history I don't expect to live more than another decade or two, if that long, but I really wonder what the world will be like when the people who are just entering college get to be my age. If the upcoming generation can break the power and influence of the large corporations over the government (and all of us), the world will be a much better place. If not, I'm just glad I probably won't be around to see it.

[Rant mode OFF]

usa2k
Blessed
MVM
join:2003-01-26
Westland, MI

usa2k

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said by WhyADuck:

[Rant mode ON]

... One is the corporation that actually provides the phone service to the prison ...

... The other player, of course, is the government itself - not just the prison system, ...
One: True, if only the local phone company would place approved numbers as collect calls for free . . .

Two: True, if only the Government would not allow this abuse of a phone service.

The rest . . . well . . . I did read it . . .
(Trying to picture WhyADuck with a protest sign outside a jailhouse.)
stufried
Premium Member
join:2003-10-13

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I had a client incarcerated in an Austrian jail last year awaiting extradition to the United States. Using the prepaid phone cards they sold in the jail commisary, it was cheaper for him to call the U.S. than it is for a person incarcerated down the street.
Skywise
join:2004-03-26
Portland, OR

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whyaduck,

I read your article and I have to say that I can understand how you feel and that I agree to the most parts. Something I want to point out is that a lot of the current feeling of oppression from the Government/Corps has something to do, that we went from one of the best presidents in the 21st century (Clinton [1]) to a - lets say - below 'standard' president. I do not want to start a political discussion here (and I won't reply to any), just pointing out that going from Great to Average always feels like really bad

[1] Personal opinion, based on things like Deficit, Unemployment, War on Terror, Crime Rates etc. I don't like his personal moral standards, but simple statistics show that his administration worked great. Feel free to disagree, won't reply and won't run offtopic any more.

voiplover
Premium Member
join:2004-05-28
Portsmouth, NH

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said by stufried:

I had a client incarcerated in an Austrian jail last year awaiting extradition to the United States. Using the prepaid phone cards they sold in the jail commisary, it was cheaper for him to call the U.S. than it is for a person incarcerated down the street.
I'll take this info as advice.
So, if the coppers ever come running, I'll high tail down under with my Amex/AT&T card in tote.
:D:D