 DavidNow accepting new patientsPremium,VIP
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2 edits | reply to Sweet Witch
Re: [Rant] My 2005 Ford Escape Escapade & general I thought about the lemon law, but then again more time wasted for a lost cause. I figure cut the loss, and let it become someone else's problem. Hell I will even copy the service reciepts and give it to the next owner. Least then he has a decent fight on his/her hands. Heck, at that point I can only pray a city attorney gets it, that would be an interesting show I would pay to watch. 
I sent them the survey sheet back with my general experiences and what I thought.I dought if I hear anything. Would be interesting to see though but I am not betting on it. Who knows they might even sent those anonymous PR drones here to post and state I am lying anyway. My thought to that would be "Sure, and it mysteriously came to your shop four times for the same problem, and you were paid for it... hmmmmm. "
So I figure at this point the best fight I do have is just to get rid of it all together, least then they make just about no interest in me and the vehicle in general. |
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 Sweet WitchBe the flame, not the moth.Premium,MVM
join:2003-07-15
Gallifrey | said by David:
I thought about the lemon law, but then again more time wasted for a lost cause. I figure cut the loss, and let it become someone else's problem. Hell I will even copy the service reciepts and give it to the next owner. Least then he has a decent fight on his/her hands. Heck, at that point I can only pray a city attorney gets it, that would be an interesting show I would pay to watch.
It's interesting how easily you're willing to dump the vehicle on someone else, even with the paperwork. If you insist on handing it in, do it at a dealership and just as you're driving off with the new vehicle hand them the paperwork for the 'lemon' and say 'I just found these and thought you should have them'. The dealership will have the ability to get it fixed much better than an individual.
Or sell it at a greatly reduced cost. I just bought a used car from a person and got quite a surprise that in addition to the tires, it needed all four brakes done and the right front bounced like a rubber ball over 65mph. The bouncing was fixed with the brake job and new tire, but not before also having to replace the studs and special lug nuts because the idiot who put it on previously had crossed the threads and one bolt actually came off. If I had bought through a dealership the tires would have already been done and probably the tires. Fortunately I paid much less for the car than the going rate and had left a buffer for repairs.
Even if you don't keep it, you should probably forward a set of the papers to the city attorney before you sell it. They may have other reports about the dealership and first owners have much more leverage then second owners.
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DavidNow accepting new patientsPremium,VIP
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| said by Sweet Witch:It's interesting how easily you're willing to dump the vehicle on someone else, even with the paperwork. If you insist on handing it in, do it at a dealership and just as you're driving off with the new vehicle hand them the paperwork for the 'lemon' and say 'I just found these and thought you should have them'. The dealership will have the ability to get it fixed much better than an individual. Or sell it at a greatly reduced cost. Even if you don't keep it, you should probably forward a set of the papers to the city attorney before you sell it. They may have other reports about the dealership and first owners have much more leverage then second owners. I still may do this but it will definatley be after I trade it in. Maybe a week or so afterward, least they can have the joys I had. Hell, they might even take it back to koetting and have them repair it fully. Who knows, at that point I won't care.
It isn't that I am willing to just dump it off, it actually drives quite nice, and the Front Wheel drive did fantastic in the snow and ice this seasonal year. If it was not for the fact that I cannot pull the key out of the ignition, or the fact the gear selector still moves even when the vehicle is off I would probably keep it. Then again, what other underlying problems are with the vehicle that I have not found yet? That is a question I don't want to pay in the long run to have answered. I would rather cut my losses and come out ahead in the long run.
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 HallPremium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Dayton, OH
kudos:2 | reply to David
said by David: Hell I will even copy the service reciepts and give it to the next owner. Least then he has a decent fight on his/her hands. If you trade it in, you won't know who buys it to give it to. If you sell it privately or try to, you think a potential buyer will still be interested if you give them this story ?? If you give them this stuff after the sale, I don't know if they could have the sale voided. Buyer's remorse ?? I know a house and a car are two very different things, but if I sell a house knowing the roof leaks, yet I don't tell the buyer it leaks, I will be liable. Heck, at that point I can only pray a city attorney gets it... I don't know how big Granite City is or how busy the prosecutor is, but in 9 out of 10 cities, they'll politely tell you that they don't have time for this. For one, this is a civil matter, a private arrangement between you and the dealer, and they won't get involved. |
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DavidNow accepting new patientsPremium,VIP
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1 edit | Well then again I go back to the point that Koetting ford made, if they don't think it is a problem why should I think there is one? I will use their unprofessionalism and lack of knowledge of my vehicle to my advantage. After all they told me it was fixed, I can play dumb as well.
What I meant by that is if the City attorney buys the car from the dealer (a wishful funny). I don't privately sell vehicles, I am looking at trading it in at this point no private party sales. We can drop that angle right at the table.
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| reply to David
Selling your "lemon" to a private party is not an option!!! That will only involve you in a person-to-person altercation. This is contrary to your desire to put it all behind you.
When you sell it to the dealer it becomes their problem and when inevitably the new owner brings it in and complains, the dealer will be obligated to fix it. What's more, they have all the paperwork so they cannot claim no prior knowledge.
In this situation, a commercial dealer is what we call a "knowledgable buyer," where a private party is not. The dealer is assumed to have the expertise to know what kind of deal they are getting into. If you sell it to a private party you will have to prove that you informed the buyer of the exact status of the vehicle. Failing that the buyer may seek damages -- and get it.
By the way, this is not a "lemon law" situation (at least not the car, but maybe the dealer is the lemon) because it is your fault a soft drink was spilled into the works. I presume this is true since you have not denied it. |
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DavidNow accepting new patientsPremium,VIP
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1 edit | said by Johnny Moon:Selling your "lemon" to a private party is not an option!!! That will only involve you in a person-to-person altercation. This is contrary to your desire to put it all behind you. When you sell it to the dealer it becomes their problem and when inevitably the new owner brings it in and complains, the dealer will be obligated to fix it. What's more, they have all the paperwork so they cannot claim no prior knowledge. In this situation, a commercial dealer is what we call a "knowledgable buyer," where a private party is not. The dealer is assumed to have the expertise to know what kind of deal they are getting into. If you sell it to a private party you will have to prove that you informed the buyer of the exact status of the vehicle. Failing that the buyer may seek damages -- and get it. By the way, this is not a "lemon law" situation (at least not the car, but maybe the dealer is the lemon) because it is your fault a soft drink was spilled into the works. I presume this is true since you have not denied it. Well, I am not denying the soda problem or that I spilled it or however it happend. I just have a hard time buying that was the acutal cause, based on the subsequent times of repair and the problem intermittently still remaining. Basically that tells me this vehicle can be completely disabled with a $0.55 can of soda or a $0.79 soda at a quicktrip, and it cannot be spilled when the cupholder is built into the same console as the Gear selector. Surely they did not think anyone has spilled a drink in a car before. They play commercials on tv about it now. Plus if a soda could disable a vehicle such as this why did they not think in the engineering of the car to put the beverage holders elsewhere? Or locate the gear selector in the steering column not between the seats in the console? It might be a lemon law condition, then again it could be shotty work, and pass the blame off to me. I am just tired of wasting time & money on it and looking for better options.
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| I used to have a 35mm camera. One day I took it to an outdoor event and accidentally spilled a small amount of soft drink on it. I wiped it off and it appeared to have not gotten inside at all. A few days later I started having problems with the exposure control. I sent the camera to the manufacturer's repair depot three times, each time hoping that would fix the camera. In the end I threw away the camera body and bought a later model of same. (Glad I didn't have to waste my normal, tele and wide linses!)
The simple fact is that the chemicals in soft drinks muck up electrical contacts and unless you can clean ALL of the material out of the contacts you will always have problems with intermittant contact. This is the situation you are in.
Considering the cars with serious design problems like wheels that fall off or exploding gas tanks, you should be glad your problem is not life threatening. I understand your anger against the dealer and manufacturer, but I think your experience would be similar had you bought a different brand from a different dealer.
We all make mistakes and often we are unaware of the potential harm until after it's been done. As I said in my first post, the best thing to do is get past it and enjoy the rest of your life. Trade it in, get something you like, and be careful with those sodas! |
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DavidNow accepting new patientsPremium,VIP
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| said by Johnny Moon:The simple fact is that the chemicals in soft drinks muck up electrical contacts and unless you can clean ALL of the material out of the contacts you will always have problems with intermittant contact. This is the situation you are in. Considering the cars with serious design problems like wheels that fall off or exploding gas tanks, you should be glad your problem is not life threatening. I understand your anger against the dealer and manufacturer, but I think your experience would be similar had you bought a different brand from a different dealer. We all make mistakes and often we are unaware of the potential harm until after it's been done. As I said in my first post, the best thing to do is get past it and enjoy the rest of your life. Trade it in, get something you like, and be careful with those sodas! I agree wholeheartedly, I still think they should have fixed it though, I mean they were paid for it!! 
But yep, I am going on.
Someone suggested I take a new pic of the new truck and put it here. I think that would be a fantastic idea, least they can know what replaced them.
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If you have a topic in the direct forum please reply to it or a post of mine, I get a notification when you do this. My 2005 ford Escape and general dealership experience |
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| They should have warrantied the repair for a reasonable time (perhaps 90 days) and within that period they should have made additional attempts to fix it, free of any additional charge. This is why I would take my business elsewhere if I were you. |
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DavidNow accepting new patientsPremium,VIP
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| said by Johnny Moon: This is why I would take my business elsewhere if I were you. I think that is pretty much a given.. |
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| Great!!! I wish everybody would vote with their business. If you don't like the deal you got, don't go back and tell everybody you know what assholes they are! (The business, not everybody.)  |
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DavidNow accepting new patientsPremium,VIP
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| Some bad news Well, some time ago my truck (the explorer) was hit in the front end. Well we had to get three estimates, much to my dismay the three highest included koetting ford in one of them. Needless to say I submitted the only ones I had and they choose and cut the check for Koetting Ford's estimate (well least if they screw this one up, I won't have it long enough to worry about.) I noticed they have had the truck since last wednesday.
I guess they might not have figured out how the headlights work. 
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DavidNow accepting new patientsPremium,VIP
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| Well I got the truck back, needless to say I had to ask them to put the front license plate bracket one, which they did without any fuss. At first I thought I was going to have to put it on, and based on their track record with me. None the less the body shop guy had someone put it on and did a rather nice job on the truck, and the headlights did work when I turned them on.
So I guess there is a little clear water in the cesspool over there..
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joewhoPremium
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| I don't blame you for wanting to get rid of the problem and forget about it. Personally, I would be a pain in the ass to them every single day. I would go into that showroom every single day, when there are customers and talk loudly about the problems and why they aren't fixed.
I would also talk loudly about past ford recalls and vehicles that slipped out of park to cause accidents.
Yes, a daily scene would be appropriate. How does a pop spill cause the gear shift to screw up? The interlock is obviously screwed up if the key won't come out. You probably need a new ignition, at their cost.
In the end though, I think you are probably right about just getting rid of it. That way you don't have to participate in their problems or let it rent space in your mind.
Check your IM please.
Tim
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1 edit | I could be a pain in the ass to them every day of the week and it would not affect them regardless. BTW, I did test everything on the truck and all appears to be working, least there is some good credibility at the body shop.
They made it look like I drove it off the lot first day I owned my truck.. Rather impressive..
I guess the body shop should teach the service dept. some pointers!!
But yea, I am going to trade it off and soon, After the taxes are filed and such, I am going shopping.
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ricep5Premium
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Jacksonville, FL | reply to David
Re: [Rant] My 2005 Ford Escape Escapade & general I don't think you have enough for a Lemon Law. I would write a letter and provide copies of your bills you have paid and send them to the Ford Regional Manager. If that is not satisfactory, then call the Ford Customer Service Hotline (published in your owners guide) and state your issues in a calm, professional manner. Request a regional manager to inspect your Escape for the issues you have been dealing with.
If Ford is not responsive at this point or informs you there is nothing they can do to assist, then you should make every effort to get your Avalanche. You will have given Ford every chance to rectify at that point.
While all cars have an issue at one time or another and none of them are infallible; (as are the people who support them) If the issues are systemic (happens in other areas of the company), then you must use the power you have as a consumer. Go to a competitor. |
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| said by ricep5: If that is not satisfactory, then call the Ford Customer Service Hotline (published in your owners guide) and state your issues in a calm, professional manner. Request a regional manager to inspect your Escape for the issues you have been dealing with. If Ford is not responsive at this point or informs you there is nothing they can do to assist, then you should make every effort to get your Avalanche. You will have given Ford every chance to rectify at that point. I have tried in good faith more than I care to. To most I did send in their little survey form and advised what I was doing. Have not heard anything from them since, and it does not suprise me in the least. I figure it about like this, if I have to try that damn hard, then someone else is not trying at all.
said by ricep5:While all cars have an issue at one time or another and none of them are infallible; (as are the people who support them) If the issues are systemic (happens in other areas of the company), then you must use the power you have as a consumer. Go to a competitor. Agreed, that is what I am doing.
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 vobguyA fool with a tool is still a foolPremium
join:2003-01-21
Mineral, VA | reply to David
Sorry bout your experience with the Escape. I had a 2003 for awhile (I named her MudDance), but for various reasons (small gas tank, limited cargo, comfort, and yes a few stuck key issues) I got myself a pickup - a Dodge. I was struck by how much smoother a ride it has compared to the Escape.
I do miss the moonroof, though.
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 HappyBunnyHi. Cram It.Premium
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Long Beach, CA
kudos:1 | reply to Sweet Witch
Biggest mistake was.. buying a Ford! Dont make it worse and buy a GM!
the bun, who remembers her Ford Escort and its continual repair bills and ridiculous electrical system far too well
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