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noel_pr1

join:2005-03-14
Los Angeles, CA
reply to Hinn

Re: Problem after MS update KB891711

Hinn you don't really have to remove the older 891711 update. You can just install the newer one over the older one as the newly re-released KB891711 update will overwrite the files from the older update.

But if you want to play it safe you can remove the older 891711 patch, reboot and then install the revised 891711 patch if the older one has caused problems on your computer.


Hinn

@comcast.net
reply to SirSteve
So an uninstallation is not required?


Cudni
La Merma - Vigilado
Premium,MVM
join:2003-12-20
Someshire
kudos:13

1 recommendation

Yes, no need to uninstall.

Cudni

SUMware
Premium
join:2002-05-21
kudos:2
reply to captnhook
Installed KB891711 a couple of hours ago on 98SE. So far, all ok.

Glad to see that this version seems to work well for others, too!

Gianni45

join:2004-08-22
reply to Hinn
1. re-enable it in msconfig and UNINSTALL it via Add/Remove
2. Reboot
3. DELETE the KB891711 Folder [C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\KB891711]
4. INSTALL the new revised version

Tested on Win98SE...so far so good!

hahb

join:2005-03-19
Poughkeepsie, NY
reply to DrDemento
said by DrDemento:

Thanks for the feedback. Have installed the new patch and noted it does not load at start up or show up as a running process.
I installed the new patch a few minutes ago. I am running Windows ME - the new patch is showing in my start-up processes!! I am going to restart in safe mode and uninstall it. If I can reboot afterwards, I'm going to wait a few days before reinstalling it.


hahb

join:2005-03-19
Poughkeepsie, NY
said by hahb:

said by DrDemento:

Thanks for the feedback. Have installed the new patch and noted it does not load at start up or show up as a running process.
I installed the new patch a few minutes ago. I am running Windows ME - the new patch is showing in my start-up processes!! I am going to restart in safe mode and uninstall it. If I can reboot afterwards, I'm going to wait a few days before reinstalling it.

Actually, after having read the posts more carefully, I'm not going to uninstall it just yet--though it sure is making me nervous.

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
Yes, I was just going to say that it is MSCONFIG Startup and checked there so you would be expected to see it in Startup. On 98SE what you do NOT see is it running as a program when you do the three finger salute. I didn't install the first patch but evidently it was seen in c/a/d and the difference is that with the new patch it is not seen there as a running program task.
--
The first and foremost function of our jurors is to protect private citizens from a tyrannical and intrusive government...Jurors are the last line of defense for liberty. Thomas Jefferson 1789


dp
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-08
Greensburg, PA
kudos:7
reply to hahb
said by hahb:

Actually, after having read the posts more carefully, I'm not going to uninstall it just yet--though it sure is making me nervous.
The new patch is running as a service.
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\RunServices
--
Write your questions down on the back of a $20 dollar bill and send them to me


Rishico

@upc-j.chello.nl
reply to captnhook
Me had experienced the problem with the first patch in february. And what suprised me most, was WHY a patch shows up in the MSCONFIG area?? This was the first time a patch of MS shows up there, but why?

And now me updated the new patch (eg April 12) and everything is working fine, but still...why it shows up in the MSCONFIG???


HA Nut
Premium
join:2004-05-13
USA
MS hasn't said in detail (and likely won't) but it's obvious that an "active" running approach to the problem is their solution. »www.microsoft.com/technet/securi···002.mspx This is the first patch of it's type (active) that I've ever seen for any of the Win OS's I have ran. Other patches became part of Windows (or IE or whatever)...

Mauvehaze

join:2005-04-20
Australia
reply to captnhook
Hi everyone. This is to say "Thank you" to you all for your help and information in rectifying the problem I had with KB891711. I was recently asked by a friend to fix his computer problems. I am by no means any type of computer whizz. From what he told me he had a 'Dialer' and a 'Homepage hijacker' causing trouble. I got rid of them and found he only had Internet Explorer version 3. I updated that and Outlook Express to the latest. He is running Windows 98 on 96MB RAM. I installed anti-spyware and updated his anti-virus and ran those getting rid of a myriad of problems there. I decided that I had better update Microsoft's critical updates for his computer and found there was a huge list to be done. Over quite a few days I downloaded them. On Tuesday 19th April 2005 I had just done the last 23 when the computer crashed as I restarted. I went home and wrote "updated microsoft computer crashed" into my search engine on my own computer and up came your forum with the solution. Yesterday, Weds 20th April, I went back out to my friend's and using msconfig & regedit I fixed things up. Many thanks again.
I probably read Microsoft's newletter saying there was a problem with it, but dismissed it thinking that it didn't affect me as I'm running XP, not even thinking that I might ever again be working on a computer running Windows 98.
To hahb who posted this on 2005-03-19 "This may be a stupid question, but why doesn't Microsoft simply remove this critical update as an option for Windows 98/ME users until it's been fixed? I can guess that there are a lot of people, not reading these forums, who, after downloading it, are screaming in agony when their systems crash."
It's not a stupid question. I would think it's a logical solution. Yes, I was another one screaming in agony as the system crashed, one month after that post. At least two months after Microsoft was aware of it, so I believe.

Mauvehaze

join:2005-04-20
Australia
reply to hahb
To hahb who posted this on 2005-03-23 (not 2005-03-19 as I said previously)
"This may be a stupid question, but why doesn't Microsoft simply remove this critical update as an option for Windows 98/ME users until it's been fixed? I can guess that there are a lot of people, not reading these forums, who, after downloading it, are screaming in agony when their systems crash."

It's not a stupid question. I would think it's a logical solution. Yes, I was another one screaming in agony as the system crashed, one month after your post. Ages after Microsoft became aware of the problem.

hahb

join:2005-03-19
Poughkeepsie, NY
reply to captnhook
Earlier I wrote "Actually, after having read the posts more carefully, I'm not going to uninstall it just yet--though it sure is making me nervous"

I did uninstall the new patch KB891711 a few days ago. I really don't like the idea of it appearing in my running processes (which I've whittled to the bare bone). My normally sluggish low-ram computer, I believe, is a little less sluggish now.

I have a feeling that my poor old computer is more vulnerable to the new patch than it is to the possible security threat it is supposedly protecting it from.

joliv

join:2002-10-20
BRAZIL
reply to captnhook
Microsoft says on April 15, 2005 had revised and reissued the patch KB 891711 to correct the problems caused in prior released file.

Check at: »support.microsoft.com/kb/891711

Article ID : 891711
Last Revision : friday, April 15, 2005
Revision : 2.0

This is what I found on the Microsoft Brasil web page.

I am still using Windows 98SE PT BR, and had not experienced any trouble as result of the updates I made on April 13, 2005 through Windows Update website.

Jorge ( joliv@superig.com.br )


German in London

@48.adsl.londonlink.n
reply to captnhook
I am extremely relieved I found this forum. I really had big problems lately, computer would freeze all the time and did not shut down correctly, so I had to switch off and on the electricity tab several times a day. I guess now, this had to do with the patch KB891711. I just took it off from the start-up and also deinstalled it. I really hope now, that this solved my problems. Was near to a nervous crackdown. I cannot believe MS bring out a patch that creates problems, instead of preventing them.


kees2

@adsl.wanadoo.nl
reply to captnhook
Hi,
What I have with my system, is that Dr. Watson says KB891711 changes your systemfiles. And, in addition the new version of MSN 7.0 hangs regularly....

reply to captnhook
Hoo boy, what a day. Until today I hadn't had any problems with my system for a while. When I booted up for the first time today, I got a BSOD. Great. I thought it was a hardware problem, but nothing showed up when I checked my system. After having to boot up in safe mode twice, it finally made it back to some sense of normalcy. A few hours later, I had to ctrl-alt-del out of a program and when I did, I noticed Kb891711 on the list. Being the curious feline, I found the file, checked the properties, etc and all I came away with was that it was a Microsquash file. I then went straight to Google and the second link looked interesting. That brought me here. After reading all seven pages of this thread, as well as a number of linked threads, I downloaded the two critical updates from the MS site that came up, including the Kb891711 part deux.

I let my system reboot and all seemed okay. No BSOD. While I was on the MS site, I noticed an update for DirectX, so I went back and downloaded it. The fun began once more. When I let my system reboot once again, the BSOD returned. I hate going into safe mode because it rearranges all my desktop icons, so I tried regular mode with bootlog. After having to reboot two more times, everything seemed normal. I tried ctrl-alt-del to see if the Kb891711 reference was no longer there, and it wasn't.

I have no idea what in the world went on following the DirectX update, but I've learned over time to expect the occasional BSOD when doing non-critical updates.

Just to further check on things, I opened the bootlog to see what had failed. At one time, I knew my computer kung fu fairly well, but these days I'm just an average user. Can anyone tell me what the failures listed mean? Here they are:
LoadFailed = ndis2sup.vxd
DEVICEINITFAILED = VGARTD
INITCOMPLETEFAILED = SDVXD

Thanks in advance for any help!

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
Here's a Microsoft article that explains the first two:

»support.microsoft.com/kb/q127970/

Here's the explanation for the third one:

INITCOMPLETEFAILED=SDVXD

"Windows 95/98 automatically loads a miniature disk cache to increase the speed of the boot process. When the boot process is complete, the miniature disk cache is unloaded from memory. When it is unloaded, the above line is added to the Bootlog.txt file to indicate that the miniature disk cache has been removed from memory.

This is normal behavior."

»www.geocities.com/~budallen/boot···t%20File

All three are considered normal behavior.

Why don't you join us? It's free. This is a great site!
--
The first and foremost function of our jurors is to protect private citizens from a tyrannical and intrusive government...Jurors are the last line of defense for liberty. Thomas Jefferson 1789


dp
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-08
Greensburg, PA
kudos:7
reply to katastrophic
said by katastrophic:

After having to reboot two more times, everything seemed normal. I tried ctrl-alt-del to see if the Kb891711 reference was no longer there, and it wasn't.
The KB891711 original patch did show in task mananger . The re-release of this patch (the one you have) loads as a service and does not show in task manager.
I'll second Mele20 See Profile's invite to join us here. It doesn't hurt at all
--
Write your questions down on the back of a $20 dollar bill and send them to me

reply to Mele20
Thanks a bunch, Mele20 and DP. The VGARTD reference wasn't on that page and I tried searching from there, but nothing came up so I went to Google. I thought it would have something to do with my video drivers due to the VGA part and I was right. For some reason, it seems that just about every time I have problems with 98se, it points to the ndis2sup.vxd and VGARTD references. I don't know if that's any help to the folks who deal with assisting Microsquish in fixing bugs in patches (ad infinitum) or not.

My system is quite old. It's a K6-III 400mhz w/384M RAM. The secondary IDE channel went poofers on me about two years ago so I only have my two hard drives on the primary cable. I have to disconnect my slave drive every time I need to use my CD burner to do a backup or read off a CD.

I used to have a software package by Ontrack for cleaning up my registry and fixing and finding problems, but they stopped supporting it a few years ago, so who knows how nasty my registry and hard drive files look now.

It's time for me to get back into the groove with understanding and tweaking my system, so I'm giving serious thought to joining this board. I've been out of the loop for too long and even though I run a hardware firewall and I keep my AVG updated, I don't trust updates from MS due to their history of having to apply patches to fixes for patches that don't work. It's obvious that they want us all to pay out the wazoo yet again to upgrade their software to a newer version, but the way I see it, 1) I'm using a dinosaur computer and 2) If they can't even fix their ancient software released about eight years ago, why pay the cash to upgrade to yet another system with more bugs than an entomology professor?

It'll be a few days before my bank account has higher numbers than the average person's IQ, so joining the board will have to wait a few days. In the meantime, do y'all have any suggestions for a good software package that will do at least some of what my old Ontrack tools did?

Thanks again, folks! I really like this board. At least for this thread, I've not seen any fights/flaming, only one idiot troll and everyone watches their language.


NanDog
The Pup Was Female, I'M Not
Premium
join:2003-12-28
said by katastrophic:

It's time for me to get back into the groove with understanding and tweaking my system, so I'm giving serious thought to joining this board. I've been out of the loop for too long and even though I run a hardware firewall and I keep my AVG updated, I don't trust updates from MS due to their history of having to apply patches to fixes for patches that don't work.

Thanks again, folks! I really like this board. At least for this thread, I've not seen any fights/flaming, only one idiot troll and everyone watches their language.
Hey, katastrophic! Come on in when you can! The water's just fine here at BBR!
--
See ya across the Rainbow Bridge, my good and faithful friend!


Alwill
Lost time is never found again.
Premium,MVM
join:2002-09-25
Sydney, OZ

4 edits
reply to katastrophic
said by katastrophic:

It'll be a few days before my bank account has higher numbers than the average person's IQ, so joining the board will have to wait a few days.
Hi katastrophic, basic membership of the Broadband Reports (BBR) Board is free, the only time you need to go for your wallet is if you elect for Premium membership and even that is as cheap as chips. So as NanDog See Profile has said, come on in.

EDIT This FAQ might offer some clarification as regards membership.

--
Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy - Anonymous

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
Yes, basic membership is free but don't you get a better deal still on the Premium if you buy it within 24 hours of getting the basic? This is why I did not suggest that katastrophic join now. Premium is worth it and it is a one time deal. Just to get free email service makes it worth it much less the other things and the fact that you support the site a bit.
--
The first and foremost function of our jurors is to protect private citizens from a tyrannical and intrusive government...Jurors are the last line of defense for liberty. Thomas Jefferson 1789


1 recommendation

Thanks for the tip, Mele. Bill paying day for the month is tomorrow, so I may do the basic thing on my next trip here then go full premium. I didn't read further to see if it's $10 a year or if it's a one-time fee, but that's no big deal. Even $10 is cheap for what I'd get out of being a "real" member here. Plus, I can't resist another dog lover. That, of course, is in reference to NanDog & his sig line - almost makes me cry every time I see that. This Wednesday will be the 6-month anniversary of when I had to say goodbye to my beloved 13-year-old Chocolab and it's hitting me pretty hard already.

Anyway... Does anyone have any recommendations for software tools like the ones I mentioned in my previous post? Having a dinosaur system is bad enough as it is, much less one with what I'm sure has a bloated registry. Too bad Ontrack had to stop supporting what I had after what I paid for it.

TTFN, folks
kitty (my real nickname)

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5

2 edits

1 recommendation

I hadn't noticed Nan's signature with the Rainbow Bridge. I have tears in my eyes just thinking of that beautiful poem. I sorry your beloved pet passed away. It's so hard. When my sweet Moxie (orange male tabby kitty) left me very suddenly at 11 and one-half years, I was just stunned. It was so unexpected and the final illness so swift (a blessing in some ways but no chance to prepare). I cried for months. Everyone told me to get another kitty right away. I knew that wouldn't work for me. Finally, after much time had passed, a kitten adopted me much in ths same way that Moxie had years ago. Now I can remember Moxie without crying but with great fondness and know that when I pass away all my beloved pets will be there waiting at the Rainbow Bridge. I think that is one of the most beautiful poems I've ever read. You'll find lots of pet lovers here. Our Mod of Mods, fatness See Profile has a journal here and he has written wonderful entries about his beloved dog, then her final illness and now his wonderful new dog and family member Jane.

I'm getting OT though and we try hard not to do that here. There are social forums here for talking about pets, etc. and there is private messaging also.

What Direct X did you upgrade to? I have deliberately left my old box (98SE Dell PIII 450 Mhz) at version 8. I have the original video card on that box and I don't think version 9 will work well with such an old video card. If you have a newer card then disregard my comment. BTW, I agree completely with your hatred of having to go into safe mode on a 98SE box. I too avoid that on that box whenever I can because is messes with the desktop and when you reboot normally you still have a screwed up desktop and it takes the taskbar which I have vertical and very narrow on the left side of the screen and makes it fat and sticks it horizontal at the bottom. It is not easy on 98SE to grab that and get it back vertical on the left and then to get it narrow is tricky also. So, I avoid going into safe mode on that box. XP is big improvement in that regard.

I'm not familiar with Ontrack so I can't say whether or not this is similar but this is what I use on both my 98Se box and my XP box. This is the last free version.

»www.321download.com/LastFreeware/

Edited to make it clearer that I mean JV16 Power Tools which includes RegCleaner which is, in IMO, the safest and best of the registry cleaners even today.

You might want to start a new thread about DirectX, tools for 98SE, etc. We are way off the original topic here and that is not good. You don't have to be a member to start a thread. We also have an outstanding Microsoft Help forum here in addition to this Security forum which most of us think is the best on the internet.

--
The first and foremost function of our jurors is to protect private citizens from a tyrannical and intrusive government...Jurors are the last line of defense for liberty. Thomas Jefferson 1789

Hi again, Mele20 =)

Thanks for the reply and for reminding me to stay on topic. My problems with KB891711 seem to be over (finally), though when I ran dxdiag (can't believe I remembered that command), my screen went black momentarily and scared the dickens out of me. I'm running DX 9.0c and the vid card on this machine is a 3dFX Voodoo3. As for diagnostic software, my baby bro loaned me his System Mechanic for now. If I like it, I'll buy the newer version.

OT: Sorry to hear about your Moxie, but I'm glad you were adopted by another sweet kitten. I'm on disability and live with my mother, but she doesn't want another dog around so unfortunately I cannot adopt another yet. Hopefully she'll come around before too long. I've had dogs in my life since I was a baby and find it very hard to live without one or two around. Thanks for mentioning fatness' journal. I bookmarked this page to remind me that once I join here, I can read his journal about his dogs. Whew. Hard to talk about all this still. It's that 6-month anniversary thing coming up tomorrow. I'm glad that I'll be with my baby bro tomorrow.

Before I stray too far off topic, I decided that I'll be going full member here soon. Hopefully I can snag my regular nickname. I'll do a quick post in this thread when I do in case I have to choose another nickname so at some point we can all get together in another thread somewhere to talk about our "kids."

Thanks again, Mele20 =)


captnhook

join:2001-02-20
NY
reply to captnhook
wow this thread is still active..
Welcome to BBR Kitty! It's nice to see something good come out of such a problematic MS patch
and happy to hear that you've resolved your problem with KB891711 and are up and running again.