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captnhook
join:2001-02-20
NY

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captnhook

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Re: Problem after MS update KB891711

Microsoft never did get back to me regarding my inquiry concerning this problem but I took Mele20's suggestion and contacted Microsoft via the 1-866-PCSafety (1-866-727-2338) number.
I talked to a tech here in the states who looked up my original case # and took some additional info I had regarding KB891711's conflicting with web filters run through proxies.
I was told that the patch seems to have no problem with XP but has some issues with ME and 98 and to leave it uninstalled if it causes problems.
At least he confirmed that MS acknowledges there is a problem and is trying to work on a fix.

DrDemento
@brick101.nj.comcast.

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Just off the phone with a very understanding and informative technician at the phone number suggested for microsoft. He advised me to remove the patch and then remove the registry key via regedit. He advised me that a new patch is being worked on but there have been a myriad of complaints from 98SE and ME people and it has now been policy to remove the patch and the registry entry. After removal he waited for me to reboot and make sure that things functioned OK. They did not as my desktop icons would not work.(Double clicking them acted as if I had right clicked them) Rebooted again and all was then working fine. I have had multiple experiences with microsoft support in the past that were not as smooth or as pleasant as this episode. He advised me not to download this patch again even though it is still offered at WU and to wait for a new patch that will be released with a different KB number.
Mele20
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Hilo, HI

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This sounds encouraging. Callers are not being flipped off as some were earlier and MS must have been successful in reproducing the problem if they are now saying a patch will be issued under a different KB number at some time in the future.

I was going to call, but I have not installed it so I can't give Microsoft any possibly useful information to help them.I do think anyone who has installed it and had a problem should call as you just might have some information that could help them (even if you don't think you do).

I guess we just wait now for the revised patch.

NanDog
The Pup Was Female, I'M Not
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join:2003-12-28
Bremerton, WA

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NanDog

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said by Mele20:

I guess we just wait now for the revised patch.
Yup, that'd be me!

Thanks for all the investigative work you guys! It's appreciated. Now we just have to wait and see what M$ does with this!

antdude
Matrix Ant
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join:2001-03-25
US

antdude

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said by NanDog:
said by Mele20:

I guess we just wait now for the revised patch.
Yup, that'd be me!

Thanks for all the investigative work you guys! It's appreciated. Now we just have to wait and see what M$ does with this!
Agreed. I wonder if MS will be releasing it on the second Tuesday on April. Hmm!

dp
MVM
join:2000-12-08
Greensburg, PA

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Initially these problems where reported after updating KB888113 and KB891711 on Win9x/ME systems. Is it safe to say that only KB891711 was the problem and KB888113 did not cause any issues. I looked at a WinME machine yesterday and both these updates are available through WU but I didn't update KB888113 yet because I don't know if it also was part of the problem. From reading this and other threads, it seems like KB888113 is safe to update and to hold off on KB891711 until a new one is issued. Does this sound right?

DrDemento
@brick101.nj.comcast.

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From my discussion with Microsoft yesterday that is exactly the case. All reported problems that the tech I had spoke with dealt with the update KB891711 with the other one seemingly trouble free. It is still a bit early to tell but after removal my boot up problems seem to be over. Interestingly after removal the folder it placed in Windows/system is still there but now empty and the WU site is offering the update to me again which of course I will pass on. Still wondering if I should just delete that folder or leave it alone.

davef250
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This program is a virus. It crashed my system big time. I wiped it out and things went back to normal.,
Nothing but more trash

DonoftheDead
Old diver
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join:2004-07-12
Clinton, WA

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Thanks for the heads up folks! I thought I solved the problem by removing some buggy sw. But still buggy. Then I saw this and solved the problem. Hard to keep boxen working right when you're sandbagged by the stuff that's supposed to protect you. Oh well, nothing new about that.:p:)

DrDemento
@brick101.nj.comcast.

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Just a follow up on my previous posting. Have had zero boot up problems since uninstalling this patch. Today I received a phone call from Microsoft in follow up of my call to their PCSAFETY line. They wanted to know if the problem was rectified and how satisfied I was with the phone support for this problem dealing with patch KB891711. Microsoft calling me? A sure sign of the apocalypse no doubt.

91Bravo
@icehouse.net

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This patch will crash older computers by installing a RAM heavy file in your start-up menu: Kb891711.exe.
It is almost impossible to uninstall if a computer can not boot. I ripped that 'fix' out in DOS and I compliment Microsux in producing a 'fix' that acts like a good worm.
IMHO it's Bill Gatus of Borg's way of making Internet users upgrade to broadband, XP driven platform$.
If U load this 'patch' on a Windows 98 platform, plan on losing your computer unless U R a power user and know how to rip it out.
Do not download this on a 64KB RAM/slow proccesor computer as you WILL end up with a non-booting/crashed system.

NanDog
The Pup Was Female, I'M Not
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join:2003-12-28
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said by dp:

Initially these problems where reported after updating KB888113 and KB891711 on Win9x/ME systems. Is it safe to say that only KB891711 was the problem and KB888113 did not cause any issues. I looked at a WinME machine yesterday and both these updates are available through WU but I didn't update KB888113 yet because I don't know if it also was part of the problem. From reading this and other threads, it seems like KB888113 is safe to update and to hold off on KB891711 until a new one is issued. Does this sound right?
Along with DP, I too am curious if folks using Win98 or ME have dl'ed KB888113 (and not KB891711) without experiencing any glitches. What say you?

HA Nut
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join:2004-05-13
USA

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KB891711 was the only issue I've had.

DrDemento
@brick101.nj.comcast.

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I initially downloaded both updates. Had problems and originally just unchecked KB891711 in msconfig which corrected the problem. Eventually called MS and was told to uninstall KB891711 and have had no problem since leaving the other patch installed.

SirSteve
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join:2003-11-28
Woodbury, CT

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said by NanDog:

said by dp:

Initially these problems where reported after updating KB888113 and KB891711 on Win9x/ME systems. Is it safe to say that only KB891711 was the problem and KB888113 did not cause any issues. I looked at a WinME machine yesterday and both these updates are available through WU but I didn't update KB888113 yet because I don't know if it also was part of the problem. From reading this and other threads, it seems like KB888113 is safe to update and to hold off on KB891711 until a new one is issued. Does this sound right?
Along with DP, I too am curious if folks using Win98 or ME have dl'ed KB888113 (and not KB891711) without experiencing any glitches. What say you?
Both updates installed on a WinMe PC with no problems here.
SUMware2
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From CNET:
quote:
Microsoft: Windows patch is flawed
Published: March 31, 2005, 8:31 AM PST
By Matt Hines
Staff Writer, CNET News.com

Microsoft has acknowledged that a security patch issued in January for its Windows 98 and Windows ME operating systems may cause performance issues for customers who have downloaded the update.

According to a notice posted Friday in the discussion group section of the company's TechNet site, Microsoft's KB891711 update, which was released to address a vulnerability related to cursor and icon format handling, fails to adequately protect users of Windows 98, Windows 98 SE and Windows ME. The patch was included as part of security bulletin MS05-002, one of the software giant's regular monthly updates.

In the short statement, a company representative stopped short of telling people to uninstall the update, noting that removal of the patch would still leave customers compromised.

"At this point, we have been able to confirm these reports and are currently working on a resolution," Jerry Bryant, of Microsoft's Security Response Center, said in posting. "Please note that by uninstalling the current update, the machine will return to a vulnerable state."

According to Bryant's post, Microsoft has yet to be notified by anyone who has experienced an attack related to the problem.

According to customer posts on the discussion site, the security issue is related to Microsoft's Internet Explorer and may cause computers to crash once the patch is installed.

NanDog
The Pup Was Female, I'M Not
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K, guess I'll do KB888113 but wait and see what M$ comes up with as regards KB891711. Muchas Gracias all!

dp
MVM
join:2000-12-08
Greensburg, PA

dp

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said by NanDog:

K, guess I'll do KB888113 but wait and see what M$ comes up with as regards KB891711. Muchas Gracias all!
That's what I did and there were no problems with the KB888113 update.
SUMware2
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As DP said, the KB888113 update also caused no problems on my 98SE box and is okay to install.
visormiser
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join:2004-02-10
Alexandria, VA

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Msft's claims that no one has been attacked via this vulnerability are baloney. According to washingtonpost.com's new tech security blog, Symantec has catalogued no fewer than 7 trojans that take advantage of this flaw.

»blogs.washingtonpost.com ··· ead.html

I happen to know that one of those trojans - anicmoo.c - was what was used in one of the recent widespread DNS poisoning attacks to plant spyware on machines that got redirected.
visormiser

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case in point: the latest exploit comes in spam and tries to download SDbot via the MS05-002 flaw.

»www.websensesecuritylabs ··· =Details
Kiwi88
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Not being active in this thread, but have maintained an 'eye' on it, as one of my Rigs run Win98sec. Have not installed the dreaded KB891711 on the 98' Rig; but for an entirely different reason, perhaps. Before this thread started I loaded that patch on XP Pro, SP1 and immediately had a degradation in speed. So I'm certain this is the patch from hell, no matter the OS!

hoseknows Seemed to have a relatively succinct clue to a patch trouble ticket & surprised this was moot, to the security community. At least a reply, could have perhaps been in order.

Cheers

captnhook
join:2001-02-20
NY

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captnhook

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The agonizing thing in all this has been trying to get any response/acknowledgement from microsoft regarding this "patch from hell". Not only is their OS and web browser flawed, it turns out this "patch" to fix the problem has turned out to be flawed as well.
I'm just a end user so I'm basically at the mercy of what ever "fix" the geniuses there in Redmond come up with.. I just hope that they come up with a working solution to this soon.

NanDog
The Pup Was Female, I'M Not
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NanDog

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said by captnhook:

I'm basically at the mercy of what ever "fix" the geniuses there in Redmond come up with.. I just hope that they come up with a working solution to this soon.
Yeah, join the club, captn! I did dl KB888113 and this old tired 98se box remains good. Still waiting to see what the M$ gurus come up with in regards to KB891711. Sheesh.....can one say "customer service"? C'mon Redmond, you can do better than this!
sunspun
join:2003-11-29
Broken Arrow, OK

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I have Win ME and today went to Win Update, saw I was behind on updates, spent some time getting all (or most) of the critical ones, and now am suddenly having the same problems the above posts refer to. I don't have the Proxo (sp?) program. I keep getting BSOD with a very general error message saying I can press ENTER to return to Windows, and when I do that, everything is fine. For a bit. THen same thing again. I'm running an online casino poker game at the time, which probably is somehow related. It's really making things difficult. I do see this KB891711 in my running tasks list now, so I just ended task on it, and so far so good. I also disabled it in msconfig from startup list. I also see it in Add/remove progs, so guess I'll uninstall it from there. This is outrageous. Microsoft obviously knows of these issues by now, probably knew befor they released the update -- how could they NOT pull it? Or at least give a warning before you accept it from the updates. How dare they. I've read these same complaints all over many different forums once I started trying to figure out "what was wrong with my computer"! It's affected a LOT of people and it's not just some minor annoyance it's creating. At least now I know there really isn't anything wrong with my computer, it's just this program I just installed, and I don't even know what for -- interfering with what I'm trying to do -- sounds a lot like what our complaints are with spyware, doesn't it?
Mele20
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Patch Tuesday is just a few days away. Wanna bet MS won't issue a fix for this on Tuesday?

Cozworth
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join:2003-06-10
england

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Now I usually run 2K and boy am I glad I stopped by.

Cleaning my sis-inlaws PC of nigh on 200 nasties on Adaware and spybot, I decided to get the MS updates for 98 box.

When I rebooted the thing hung like a goodun. So I got into safe mode and removed everything I had installed ... except the MS updates doh! I was fearing having to nuke the box but luckily I came here and chanced on these threads.

Job sorted, box is running well (well better than it was) and I have another reason to curse MS.

Cheers
Kiwi88
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Bryant, AR

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Just 'Scraped' WIN98 ~Tired of this BS!
JackCam614
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New Hyde Park, NY

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said by Kiwi88:

Just 'Scraped' WIN98 ~Tired of this BS!
Hey KiwiRack,

Some skeptics would suggest this is precisely what MS wants all of us to do.

I'm not suggesting that I can blame you. This latest 'Security Patch' fiasco really SUCKS, Big Time. I'm fortunate, in that I saw this thread prior to installing it from WU. The question now of coarse is, when is MS going to patch the patch. I'm guessing you understandably 'scrapped' W98 to avoid the vulnerabilities that W98,W98SE and WME are subjected to until MS releases an un-flawed Security Patch.

...
Jack

FearThePatch
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Yes. I had similar problem. After installing this patch, and attempting to either run IE OR, even open my Windows folder (by navigating through my computer icon), I would get a blue screen w/ error msg on it.

The only reason I even attempted to uninstall this patch was because I saw it running in the task manager and thought it seemed weird to actually see a "KB" task running..

Anyway, I uninstalled and seem fine now.. I think I'll take my chances with the hackers. Microsoft patches are more frightening to me...