 Combat ChuckToo Many CannibalsPremium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA | The truth about hotbar Hotbar is Adware, not spyware heres why:
1. per
»securityresponse.symantec.com/av···bar.html
quote:
Adware.Hotbar needs to be manually installed on the computer.
2. from
»thundercloud.net/infoave/truth-rant.htm
quote:
This advertising is based on your Web browsing and this is clearly defined in Hotbar's own TOS and Privacy Policy.
it's adware as the software is not according to the above installed surreptitiously and it's actions are defined in the documentation.
Now as for the lawsuits:
you guys are the ones that decided to vilify adware; you decided to equate it to spyware (aka: adware that is not clear about what it transmits and/or attempts to install secretly) when there is a clear difference; you guys are the ones who decided for everyone else that we should not be given the choice of installing software that is subsidised by advertising or marketing data.
In this instance you guys overreacted more than Steve Gibson (which is quite a feat in and of it self) and now we're all going to pay for it, you have little to complain about, you're living in the reality you created. You could have attempted to get the adware companies on your side which could have brought on a lot more money and power to your side, but choose to push them away, good job. Oh, and thanks for dragging me along into your little hell.
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Dear Hollywood:Shut up and dance monkey! |
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| um sure, whatever. adware, spyware, crapware, bloody-buggery pop-up-ware. whatever you wanna call it! still a niusance. BTW the people Tel Aviv thanks you for their support. |
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| reply to Combat Chuck
The scary part is, real people actually work for these scumbags. |
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Combat ChuckToo Many CannibalsPremium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA | reply to AtomicZero
said by AtomicZero:um sure, whatever. adware, spyware, crapware, bloody-buggery pop-up-ware. whatever you wanna call it! still a niusance. BTW the people Tel Aviv thanks you for their support. If you don't like it then you don't install the adware (and the software it supports if the developer so chooses), they tell you what your getting and give you a choice.
Spyware (such as gator) attempts to deny you that choice, by attempting background installs, obscuring it's communications, and preventing an uninstall. See the difference.
If I want to put up with the nuisance in exchange for the use of a product why do you care.
The anti-spyware community should have focused on the individual being able to control what is on his computer; instead they decided that they should choose for everyone else what we shouldn't have on our computers, and in the process made enemies of those who originally supported them.
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Dear Hollywood:Shut up and dance monkey! |
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 volntnThe VolunteerPremium
join:2002-01-05
Cleveland, TN | reply to Combat Chuck
Anything that install without my permission is Garbage. Spyware-Adware..Popupware..Its all the same shit. I don't want ad's on my PC.Thank God that Microsoft Bought Giant..Lets see them strong arm MS into taking things out of its Def files.
Why do you remind me of a guy that defends sending out SPAM to 100,000 people a day and then bitches when you get sued? Oh maybe because you are making the Ad/Popup companies look like the "poor wittle guys who are getting deweted and tweated unfairwy" .
First of all if they made GOOD honest products,Noone would need a program to delete there garbage. Ad-ware in allot of cases i have seen can and will give error's in Browsers,TCP/IP stacks ,LSP's,auto dial your Modem,Reset your Homepage without permission.Suck up your resources-memory and bandwidth.Not to mention the calls to my house and work asking "How do i get this thing off my web browser,i don't want to hot search anything,Blah Blah"
Spyware and Ad-ware are all the same.. Garbage that noone wants or needs on there systems. |
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bjbrock
join:2002-10-28
Mcalester, OK | reply to Combat Chuck
If Hotbar actually told you it was installing and gave you the option, your post would have some credence.
It is trully deceptive. |
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volntnThe VolunteerPremium
join:2002-01-05
Cleveland, TN | reply to Combat Chuck
Or does it have a nice uninstaller? |
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ttt2525
join:2004-12-10
Beverly Hills, CA | reply to volntn
Good post. THese things are a nuisance. WOuldn't it be nice if the honking EULA's these came with could be in English? |
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volntnThe VolunteerPremium
join:2002-01-05
Cleveland, TN | reply to Combat Chuck
Speaking of Which..I just found Hotbars Privacy Statement,,ITS SPYWARE......LOL form the horses mouth.
..HOTBAR COLLECTS AND STORES AGGREGATED INFORMATION ABOUT THE WEB SITES ITS USERS VIEW AND THE DATA THEY ENTER IN SEARCH ENGINE SEARCH FIELDS WHILE USING THE SOFTWARE. HOTBAR USES THIS INFORMATION TO DETERMINE WHICH ADS AND BUTTONS TO DISPLAY ON YOUR HOTBAR TOOLBARS AND WHICH ADS TO SHOW YOUR BROWSER...
From there website..How stupid anyone would be to defend this stuff and try to make posts to the contrary. |
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1 edit | reply to Combat Chuck
said by Combat Chuck 
Now as for the lawsuits:
you guys are the ones that decided to vilify adware; you decided to equate it to spyware (aka: adware that is not clear about what it transmits and/or attempts to install secretly) when there is a clear difference; you guys are the ones who decided for everyone else that we should not be given the choice of installing software that is subsidised by advertising or marketing data.
In this instance you guys overreacted more than Steve Gibson (which is quite a feat in and of it self) and now we're all going to pay for it, you have little to complain about, you're living in the reality you created. You could have attempted to get the adware companies on your side which could have brought on a lot more money and power to your side, but choose to push them away, good job. Oh, and thanks for dragging me along into your little hell.
Uh yeah sure Chuck. Have you visited Hotbar's page to see all the great software that they make you pay for in blood?
From Intermute's page:
Distribution
Bundled with older releases of iMesh and other free software; more recently, advertised through junk e-mail purporting to be a Microsoft upgrade to Outlook. Source:
»www.intermute.com/spysubtract/re···r/h.html
You just trolling or are you that far away from reality.
The only thing I see positive about "Hijack my browser and slow system performance-ware" is I charge $75 to clean infected systems. I have cleaned quite a few of them.
I wonder if these "Hijack my browser and slow system performance-ware" vendors were forced to explain in plain details what the get in return for their ad-supported software the downloading consumers would walk away in a New York minute. |
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 ThalerPremium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3
 ·DSL EXTREME
| reply to volntn
said by volntn: Or does it have a nice uninstaller? Or better yet, does it even ship with one? And does it also come bundled with a stealth re-installer?
Sheesh, even Enron could make a publication and claim that they were the Mother Teresa of honest business practices...that doesn't neccessarily mean that it's worth the ink it's printed on. Kudos to Hotbar for making a page dedicated to "claiming" to be not Spyware. It doesn't mean s*** whatsoever, but it's the thought that counts. |
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| reply to volntn
I recently inherited a W98 system that had a curious extra IE tool bar. I quickly found that it was repopulated after visiting certain websites. With just a little poking around I found HotBar. There was an entry in ADD/REMOVE for HotBar, but it didn't do much.
I did find a program on the HotBar site that claims to be able to remove HotBar, but I didn't have enough nerve to run it. Instead, I went through the registry and deleted LOTS of stuff.
Even though HotBar claims not to collect any personal information, many of the registry entries associated with HotBar contained some interesting stuff. I'm glad it wasn't my computer and the former owner should be thankful that I just deleted what I found.
Since I have the original W98 install disks, I will probably blow the thing up and start over -- just to be as safe as possible (Yes, I know very little safety is possible with W98). |
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Combat ChuckToo Many CannibalsPremium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA | reply to bjbrock
As I said going by what those pages I linked to say. But it doesn't just apply to hotbar. Any company who chooses to subsidize their software with ads or by gathering marketing data is vilified, even when they are honest about what they do.
--
Dear Hollywood:Shut up and dance monkey! |
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Combat ChuckToo Many CannibalsPremium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA | reply to volntn
said by volntn: Anything that install without my permission is Garbage. Installing without permission classifies it as spyware.
said by volntn:Thank God that Microsoft Bought Giant..Lets see them strong arm MS into taking things out of its Def files. yes thank god....until they take a stand you don't like
said by volntn: Why do you remind me of a guy that defends sending out SPAM to 100,000 people a day and then bitches when you get sued? because you didn't actually understand my post, and it's easier for the week minded to side with the majority than to actually think for 2 seconds.
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Dear Hollywood:Shut up and dance monkey! |
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Combat ChuckToo Many CannibalsPremium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA | reply to volntn
said by volntn:..HOTBAR COLLECTS AND STORES AGGREGATED INFORMATION ABOUT THE WEB SITES ITS USERS VIEW AND THE DATA THEY ENTER IN SEARCH ENGINE SEARCH FIELDS WHILE USING THE SOFTWARE. HOTBAR USES THIS INFORMATION TO DETERMINE WHICH ADS AND BUTTONS TO DISPLAY ON YOUR HOTBAR TOOLBARS AND WHICH ADS TO SHOW YOUR BROWSER... No, if they inform you as to what it's doing that classifies it more as adware. It's this attitude that I'm talking about, if they inform you of their practices and give you a choice to install or not why do you fisking care, if you don't like the policy you don't install it; if someone else is ok with this method of paying for their software why shouldn't they be allowed to install it.
There is nothing wrong with a piece of software collecting user information and using it to display targeted ads or to use as marketing data as long as the software is up front about it and gives you the choice to install or not
--
Dear Hollywood:Shut up and dance monkey! |
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Combat ChuckToo Many CannibalsPremium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA | reply to Voyager2K2
Reread my post, I sited links and one from symantech, one from the rant, that based on the info provided made the software not spyware.
Honestly I don't know or care if it really is or not. I've managed to avoid "spyware", and have long since stopped caring about what software does what since the antispyware community has abandoned the mantra of "software should inform the enduser of it's methods and let them decide" in favor of "we decide for the enduser what info it is acceptable to collect", which is strikingly close to the MO of spyware companies.
In short the antispyware people are no longer about informed consent or keeping the software companies honest, but instead are about controlling what you and I can install on our PC's and how we pay for it.
BTW:
My reference to Gibson and "this instance" is poorly worded, By this instance I mean the spyware/adware situation in general, not just Hotbar.
--
Dear Hollywood:Shut up and dance monkey! |
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ThalerPremium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3 Reviews:
·DSL EXTREME
1 edit | reply to Combat Chuck
said by Combat Chuck:Any company who chooses to subsidize their software with ads or by gathering marketing data is vilified, even when they are honest about what they do. Name one, because I can't. It just seems like all "Adware, not Spyware" companies that pledge up and down the floor that they aren't spying on you...if you dig deep into their EULA and program's actions, they actually are.
Unfortunately, legit Adware companies (if they exist) will be entering into an uphill battle due to the huge pool of malware vendors out there. There is zero credibility in the "Adware, not Spyware" pool and they will have to work extremely hard in order to generate some.
said by Combat Chuck:said by volntn:..HOTBAR COLLECTS AND STORES AGGREGATED INFORMATION ABOUT THE WEB SITES ITS USERS VIEW AND THE DATA THEY ENTER IN SEARCH ENGINE SEARCH FIELDS WHILE USING THE SOFTWARE. HOTBAR USES THIS INFORMATION TO DETERMINE WHICH ADS AND BUTTONS TO DISPLAY ON YOUR HOTBAR TOOLBARS AND WHICH ADS TO SHOW YOUR BROWSER... No, if they inform you as to what it's doing that classifies it more as adware. It's this attitude that I'm talking about, if they inform you of their practices and give you a choice to install or not why do you fisking care, if you don't like the policy you don't install it; if someone else is ok with this method of paying for their software why shouldn't they be allowed to install it. This isn't exactly what I'd call "informing" the user. This excerpt came from deep within their EULA, and not fresh in easily-read print on page 1. Hiding your programs intent deep within the legaleese of the EULA ranks just as higly up there as using stealth installs to propagate your software...they both present the user with little to no choice in the matter.
I personally feel that software generating revenue using Advertisements is all fine-and-dandy...but no company out there wants to be totally honest with the user, and they all engage in these shady tactics. Maybe someday a company will get this message right, but until then, they had better be used to being lumped into the spyware/malware label, and removed as such too. |
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approval from:
volntn
| reply to Combat Chuck
What a load of bullshit semantic hair splitting. If it's monitoring me - it's spyware. It's a common definition for *anything* that collects computer usuage habits. Sorta like saying Kleenex for facial tissue. If Hotbar don't like their spyware being classified as spyware, they ought not to produce spyware. Adware is a definition that no one really uses except when required by legal eagles - Symantec included. Net result - they call it Adware - but *still* flag it as a *threat* - in the bitbucket it goes.
Symantec:1 - Hotbar:0
Has anyone actually even visited the Hotbar website? It's got all cheesy marks and style (and missing links and puffed up 'exec' bios') of a chicken boner operation. The question is: what does a trailer park operation in Tel Aviv look like, and what's their favorite greasy food? |
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volntnThe VolunteerPremium
join:2002-01-05
Cleveland, TN
1 edit | reply to Combat Chuck
said by Combat Chuck:said by volntn:..HOTBAR COLLECTS AND STORES AGGREGATED INFORMATION ABOUT THE WEB SITES ITS USERS VIEW AND THE DATA THEY ENTER IN SEARCH ENGINE SEARCH FIELDS WHILE USING THE SOFTWARE. HOTBAR USES THIS INFORMATION TO DETERMINE WHICH ADS AND BUTTONS TO DISPLAY ON YOUR HOTBAR TOOLBARS AND WHICH ADS TO SHOW YOUR BROWSER... No, if they inform you as to what it's doing that classifies it more as adware. It's this attitude that I'm talking about, if they inform you of their practices and give you a choice to install or not why do you fisking care, if you don't like the policy you don't install it; if someone else is ok with this method of paying for their software why shouldn't they be allowed to install it. There is nothing wrong with a piece of software collecting user information and using it to display targeted ads or to use as marketing data as long as the software is up front about it and gives you the choice to install or not Nothing wrong with collecting information??? What gives anyone the dam right to collect anything about me ,The EULA they provide is misleading..Its starts out saying they collect nothing,till you dig down into it,then they contradict themselves. You must live on a different planet or work for a spyware company. It is a last attempt ploy by a dying form of scamware. If the people don't want the product,it wont survive..why is that so hard to understand? Welcome to a free market society. |
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| reply to Combat Chuck
said by Combat Chuck:In short the antispyware people are no longer about informed consent or keeping the software companies honest, but instead are about controlling what you and I can install on our PC's and how we pay for it.BTW: My reference to Gibson and "this instance" is poorly worded, By this instance I mean the spyware/adware situation in general, not just Hotbar. Then read your sig please.
Replace Hollywood with Combat Chuck.
Unless you have witnessed what this poopware can do to a system I submit you are coming from nowhere.
BTW I just secured a new managerial position overseeing employees removing this garbage from customers' systems as well as other operations.
It pays well so I guess I should just be quiet. |
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