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 Combat ChuckToo Many CannibalsPremium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA | The truth about hotbar Hotbar is Adware, not spyware heres why:
1. per
»securityresponse.symantec.com/av···bar.html
quote:
Adware.Hotbar needs to be manually installed on the computer.
2. from
»thundercloud.net/infoave/truth-rant.htm
quote:
This advertising is based on your Web browsing and this is clearly defined in Hotbar's own TOS and Privacy Policy.
it's adware as the software is not according to the above installed surreptitiously and it's actions are defined in the documentation.
Now as for the lawsuits:
you guys are the ones that decided to vilify adware; you decided to equate it to spyware (aka: adware that is not clear about what it transmits and/or attempts to install secretly) when there is a clear difference; you guys are the ones who decided for everyone else that we should not be given the choice of installing software that is subsidised by advertising or marketing data.
In this instance you guys overreacted more than Steve Gibson (which is quite a feat in and of it self) and now we're all going to pay for it, you have little to complain about, you're living in the reality you created. You could have attempted to get the adware companies on your side which could have brought on a lot more money and power to your side, but choose to push them away, good job. Oh, and thanks for dragging me along into your little hell.
--
Dear Hollywood:Shut up and dance monkey! | |
|  | | Re: The truth about hotbar um sure, whatever. adware, spyware, crapware, bloody-buggery pop-up-ware. whatever you wanna call it! still a niusance. BTW the people Tel Aviv thanks you for their support. | |
| | Combat ChuckToo Many CannibalsPremium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA | Re: The truth about hotbar said by AtomicZero:um sure, whatever. adware, spyware, crapware, bloody-buggery pop-up-ware. whatever you wanna call it! still a niusance. BTW the people Tel Aviv thanks you for their support. If you don't like it then you don't install the adware (and the software it supports if the developer so chooses), they tell you what your getting and give you a choice.
Spyware (such as gator) attempts to deny you that choice, by attempting background installs, obscuring it's communications, and preventing an uninstall. See the difference.
If I want to put up with the nuisance in exchange for the use of a product why do you care.
The anti-spyware community should have focused on the individual being able to control what is on his computer; instead they decided that they should choose for everyone else what we shouldn't have on our computers, and in the process made enemies of those who originally supported them.
--
Dear Hollywood:Shut up and dance monkey! | |
| | | bjbrock
join:2002-10-28
Mcalester, OK | Re: The truth about hotbar If Hotbar actually told you it was installing and gave you the option, your post would have some credence.
It is trully deceptive. | |
| | | | Combat ChuckToo Many CannibalsPremium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA | Re: The truth about hotbar As I said going by what those pages I linked to say. But it doesn't just apply to hotbar. Any company who chooses to subsidize their software with ads or by gathering marketing data is vilified, even when they are honest about what they do.
--
Dear Hollywood:Shut up and dance monkey! | |
| | | | |  ThalerPremium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3
 ·DSL EXTREME
1 edit | Re: The truth about hotbar said by Combat Chuck:Any company who chooses to subsidize their software with ads or by gathering marketing data is vilified, even when they are honest about what they do. Name one, because I can't. It just seems like all "Adware, not Spyware" companies that pledge up and down the floor that they aren't spying on you...if you dig deep into their EULA and program's actions, they actually are.
Unfortunately, legit Adware companies (if they exist) will be entering into an uphill battle due to the huge pool of malware vendors out there. There is zero credibility in the "Adware, not Spyware" pool and they will have to work extremely hard in order to generate some.
said by Combat Chuck:said by volntn:..HOTBAR COLLECTS AND STORES AGGREGATED INFORMATION ABOUT THE WEB SITES ITS USERS VIEW AND THE DATA THEY ENTER IN SEARCH ENGINE SEARCH FIELDS WHILE USING THE SOFTWARE. HOTBAR USES THIS INFORMATION TO DETERMINE WHICH ADS AND BUTTONS TO DISPLAY ON YOUR HOTBAR TOOLBARS AND WHICH ADS TO SHOW YOUR BROWSER... No, if they inform you as to what it's doing that classifies it more as adware. It's this attitude that I'm talking about, if they inform you of their practices and give you a choice to install or not why do you fisking care, if you don't like the policy you don't install it; if someone else is ok with this method of paying for their software why shouldn't they be allowed to install it. This isn't exactly what I'd call "informing" the user. This excerpt came from deep within their EULA, and not fresh in easily-read print on page 1. Hiding your programs intent deep within the legaleese of the EULA ranks just as higly up there as using stealth installs to propagate your software...they both present the user with little to no choice in the matter.
I personally feel that software generating revenue using Advertisements is all fine-and-dandy...but no company out there wants to be totally honest with the user, and they all engage in these shady tactics. Maybe someday a company will get this message right, but until then, they had better be used to being lumped into the spyware/malware label, and removed as such too. | |
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| | The scary part is, real people actually work for these scumbags. | |
|  volntnThe VolunteerPremium
join:2002-01-05
Cleveland, TN | Anything that install without my permission is Garbage. Spyware-Adware..Popupware..Its all the same shit. I don't want ad's on my PC.Thank God that Microsoft Bought Giant..Lets see them strong arm MS into taking things out of its Def files.
Why do you remind me of a guy that defends sending out SPAM to 100,000 people a day and then bitches when you get sued? Oh maybe because you are making the Ad/Popup companies look like the "poor wittle guys who are getting deweted and tweated unfairwy" .
First of all if they made GOOD honest products,Noone would need a program to delete there garbage. Ad-ware in allot of cases i have seen can and will give error's in Browsers,TCP/IP stacks ,LSP's,auto dial your Modem,Reset your Homepage without permission.Suck up your resources-memory and bandwidth.Not to mention the calls to my house and work asking "How do i get this thing off my web browser,i don't want to hot search anything,Blah Blah"
Spyware and Ad-ware are all the same.. Garbage that noone wants or needs on there systems. | |
| | ttt2525
join:2004-12-10
Beverly Hills, CA | Re: The truth about hotbar Good post. THese things are a nuisance. WOuldn't it be nice if the honking EULA's these came with could be in English? | |
| | Combat ChuckToo Many CannibalsPremium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA | said by volntn: Anything that install without my permission is Garbage. Installing without permission classifies it as spyware.
said by volntn:Thank God that Microsoft Bought Giant..Lets see them strong arm MS into taking things out of its Def files. yes thank god....until they take a stand you don't like
said by volntn: Why do you remind me of a guy that defends sending out SPAM to 100,000 people a day and then bitches when you get sued? because you didn't actually understand my post, and it's easier for the week minded to side with the majority than to actually think for 2 seconds.
--
Dear Hollywood:Shut up and dance monkey! | |
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volntnThe VolunteerPremium
join:2002-01-05
Cleveland, TN | Or does it have a nice uninstaller? | |
| | ThalerPremium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3 Reviews:
·DSL EXTREME
| Re: The truth about hotbar said by volntn: Or does it have a nice uninstaller? Or better yet, does it even ship with one? And does it also come bundled with a stealth re-installer?
Sheesh, even Enron could make a publication and claim that they were the Mother Teresa of honest business practices...that doesn't neccessarily mean that it's worth the ink it's printed on. Kudos to Hotbar for making a page dedicated to "claiming" to be not Spyware. It doesn't mean s*** whatsoever, but it's the thought that counts. | |
| | | | I recently inherited a W98 system that had a curious extra IE tool bar. I quickly found that it was repopulated after visiting certain websites. With just a little poking around I found HotBar. There was an entry in ADD/REMOVE for HotBar, but it didn't do much.
I did find a program on the HotBar site that claims to be able to remove HotBar, but I didn't have enough nerve to run it. Instead, I went through the registry and deleted LOTS of stuff.
Even though HotBar claims not to collect any personal information, many of the registry entries associated with HotBar contained some interesting stuff. I'm glad it wasn't my computer and the former owner should be thankful that I just deleted what I found.
Since I have the original W98 install disks, I will probably blow the thing up and start over -- just to be as safe as possible (Yes, I know very little safety is possible with W98). | |
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volntnThe VolunteerPremium
join:2002-01-05
Cleveland, TN | Speaking of Which..I just found Hotbars Privacy Statement,,ITS SPYWARE......LOL form the horses mouth.
..HOTBAR COLLECTS AND STORES AGGREGATED INFORMATION ABOUT THE WEB SITES ITS USERS VIEW AND THE DATA THEY ENTER IN SEARCH ENGINE SEARCH FIELDS WHILE USING THE SOFTWARE. HOTBAR USES THIS INFORMATION TO DETERMINE WHICH ADS AND BUTTONS TO DISPLAY ON YOUR HOTBAR TOOLBARS AND WHICH ADS TO SHOW YOUR BROWSER...
From there website..How stupid anyone would be to defend this stuff and try to make posts to the contrary. | |
| | Combat ChuckToo Many CannibalsPremium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA | Re: The truth about hotbar said by volntn:..HOTBAR COLLECTS AND STORES AGGREGATED INFORMATION ABOUT THE WEB SITES ITS USERS VIEW AND THE DATA THEY ENTER IN SEARCH ENGINE SEARCH FIELDS WHILE USING THE SOFTWARE. HOTBAR USES THIS INFORMATION TO DETERMINE WHICH ADS AND BUTTONS TO DISPLAY ON YOUR HOTBAR TOOLBARS AND WHICH ADS TO SHOW YOUR BROWSER... No, if they inform you as to what it's doing that classifies it more as adware. It's this attitude that I'm talking about, if they inform you of their practices and give you a choice to install or not why do you fisking care, if you don't like the policy you don't install it; if someone else is ok with this method of paying for their software why shouldn't they be allowed to install it.
There is nothing wrong with a piece of software collecting user information and using it to display targeted ads or to use as marketing data as long as the software is up front about it and gives you the choice to install or not
--
Dear Hollywood:Shut up and dance monkey! | |
| | | volntnThe VolunteerPremium
join:2002-01-05
Cleveland, TN
1 edit | Re: The truth about hotbar said by Combat Chuck:said by volntn:..HOTBAR COLLECTS AND STORES AGGREGATED INFORMATION ABOUT THE WEB SITES ITS USERS VIEW AND THE DATA THEY ENTER IN SEARCH ENGINE SEARCH FIELDS WHILE USING THE SOFTWARE. HOTBAR USES THIS INFORMATION TO DETERMINE WHICH ADS AND BUTTONS TO DISPLAY ON YOUR HOTBAR TOOLBARS AND WHICH ADS TO SHOW YOUR BROWSER... No, if they inform you as to what it's doing that classifies it more as adware. It's this attitude that I'm talking about, if they inform you of their practices and give you a choice to install or not why do you fisking care, if you don't like the policy you don't install it; if someone else is ok with this method of paying for their software why shouldn't they be allowed to install it. There is nothing wrong with a piece of software collecting user information and using it to display targeted ads or to use as marketing data as long as the software is up front about it and gives you the choice to install or not Nothing wrong with collecting information??? What gives anyone the dam right to collect anything about me ,The EULA they provide is misleading..Its starts out saying they collect nothing,till you dig down into it,then they contradict themselves. You must live on a different planet or work for a spyware company. It is a last attempt ploy by a dying form of scamware. If the people don't want the product,it wont survive..why is that so hard to understand? Welcome to a free market society. | |
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1 edit | said by Combat Chuck 
Now as for the lawsuits:
you guys are the ones that decided to vilify adware; you decided to equate it to spyware (aka: adware that is not clear about what it transmits and/or attempts to install secretly) when there is a clear difference; you guys are the ones who decided for everyone else that we should not be given the choice of installing software that is subsidised by advertising or marketing data.
In this instance you guys overreacted more than Steve Gibson (which is quite a feat in and of it self) and now we're all going to pay for it, you have little to complain about, you're living in the reality you created. You could have attempted to get the adware companies on your side which could have brought on a lot more money and power to your side, but choose to push them away, good job. Oh, and thanks for dragging me along into your little hell.
Uh yeah sure Chuck. Have you visited Hotbar's page to see all the great software that they make you pay for in blood?
From Intermute's page:
Distribution
Bundled with older releases of iMesh and other free software; more recently, advertised through junk e-mail purporting to be a Microsoft upgrade to Outlook. Source:
»www.intermute.com/spysubtract/re···r/h.html
You just trolling or are you that far away from reality.
The only thing I see positive about "Hijack my browser and slow system performance-ware" is I charge $75 to clean infected systems. I have cleaned quite a few of them.
I wonder if these "Hijack my browser and slow system performance-ware" vendors were forced to explain in plain details what the get in return for their ad-supported software the downloading consumers would walk away in a New York minute. | |
| | Combat ChuckToo Many CannibalsPremium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA | Re: The truth about hotbar Reread my post, I sited links and one from symantech, one from the rant, that based on the info provided made the software not spyware.
Honestly I don't know or care if it really is or not. I've managed to avoid "spyware", and have long since stopped caring about what software does what since the antispyware community has abandoned the mantra of "software should inform the enduser of it's methods and let them decide" in favor of "we decide for the enduser what info it is acceptable to collect", which is strikingly close to the MO of spyware companies.
In short the antispyware people are no longer about informed consent or keeping the software companies honest, but instead are about controlling what you and I can install on our PC's and how we pay for it.
BTW:
My reference to Gibson and "this instance" is poorly worded, By this instance I mean the spyware/adware situation in general, not just Hotbar.
--
Dear Hollywood:Shut up and dance monkey! | |
| | |
approval from:
volntn
|  Re: The truth about hotbar
Symantec:1 - Hotbar:0
Has anyone actually even visited the Hotbar website? It's got all cheesy marks and style (and missing links and puffed up 'exec' bios') of a chicken boner operation. The question is: what does a trailer park operation in Tel Aviv look like, and what's their favorite greasy food? | |
| | | | | said by Combat Chuck:In short the antispyware people are no longer about informed consent or keeping the software companies honest, but instead are about controlling what you and I can install on our PC's and how we pay for it.BTW: My reference to Gibson and "this instance" is poorly worded, By this instance I mean the spyware/adware situation in general, not just Hotbar. Then read your sig please.
Replace Hollywood with Combat Chuck.
Unless you have witnessed what this poopware can do to a system I submit you are coming from nowhere.
BTW I just secured a new managerial position overseeing employees removing this garbage from customers' systems as well as other operations.
It pays well so I guess I should just be quiet. | |
| | | | | [blockquote]That's why everyone thinks I now support spyware, because you guys muddied the definitions and have thus made it almost impossible for anyone to argue any point with regard to spyware, adware and the differences; so the popular opinion wins by default.[/blockquote]
Actually, YOU are the one muddling definitions by pretending there's a difference when there isn't. "Adware", in the strict sense you are defining it in this thread, is by and large fine with most users. I've used early versions of Opera, Flashget, etc. that are useful utilities and make VERY CLEAR that you will be served banner ads and whatnot in lieu of paying for the product. I have never heard anyone complain about these types of "Adware", as you call it. Then again, they have to seek out and make "an informed decision" to download the product, unlike Hotbar.
Hotbar intentionally creates confusion and preys on the unknowledgable and (especially) the technologically ignorant, and even though you claim they "always give the option to install or uninstall the product", no one I have ever met could tell you how it got installed on their computer. Furthermore, they provide no way of uninstalling the application without a lot of research and effort or an anti-spyware program. This is BAD FAITH business. They intentionally engineer their software to find any manner or loophole possible to get onto a system, then program the application in as much as they are capable to remove a user's ability to uninstall the program in the manner which ALL other legit software works: by including a LEGITIMATE uninstaller. Then they claim, using the flimsiest of logic, that the user "agreed" the the use of their software (which one would think would make the less-than-courteous behavior of their software unnecessary, but I digress), and then they sit back and enjoy while apologists like yourself excuse their actions.
[blockquote]In short the anti-spyware people are no longer about informed consent or keeping the software companies honest, but instead are about controlling what you and I can install on our PCs and how we pay for it.[blockquote]
Last I checked, in fact, every time I scan a system using anti-spyware or anti-virus programs, at the completion of the scan I am presented with a list of spyware or viruses that I can then choose to uninstall or leave on my system. I am given complete freedom by the program to make that choice, often times being provided with extra information about the specific infection by the scanning program. So your claims that they are "controlling" what people can install on their systems is little more than apologist hyperbole.
The irony here is that, while you're claiming anti-virus and anti-spyware programs somehow diminish a user's capability to "make an informed choice" about what software they put on their computers, it is almost always the consumer themselves making an "informed choice" to seek out anti-virus and spyware programs to help get rid of this stuff. Which, I'm guessing, they probably wouldn't be doing had they really made an "informed choice" to install the crapware in the first place, as you claim. | |
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| | Hotbar's home page clearly states they are neither adware or spyware. That is deception. Hotbar not only installs Hotbar, it installs other programs, some not clearly defined in either their TOU/License or Privacy Policy (TOU/License is 4568 words, Privacy Policy over 3800 words).
Your argument is not based on facts. WowPapers, installed without your knowledge or permission when you install Hotbar, puts an icon on your desktop for WowPapers chats. This "cute" icon, when clicked, takes you directly to Hotbar's WowPapers chatroom(s). Now, any child could innocently click that icon and go to that chatroom where
the content is sexually-explicit. The nicknames being use there are sexual in nature - for example "BIGDICK4U". There is no content warning at all for these chatrooms. Additionally, a Hotbar WowPaper bot frequently appears while you in the chatroom and constantly asks for your REAL name and your email address. Isn't that nice? Wouldn't you love to have your 12 or 13 year old child in there with BIGDICK4U and a Hotbar WowPaper's bot asking your child for his/her REAL name and email address.
Hotbar's uninstaller does not completely uninstall the product and you're immediately transported to Hotbar's site the moment you try to uninstall Hotbar -they want to know why you're uninstalling it. Some of the other programs Hotbar installs like WowPapers does not have an uninstaller - you must return to Hotbar's site and download an uninstaller.
You're defense of Hotbar is unfathomable. This company is deceitful and its activities border on criminal In their TOU/License you MUST agree to allow them to install "updates, fixes" whenever they like - in other words they can install software on your computer at any time without asking your permission and without your knowledge. Why? Because you agreed to it. Just because they explicitly tell you what their going to do to you in their EULA, does not make it right.
Hotbar is deceptive. Why do you think they have the Microsoft Certified Partner logo displayed so boldly on their home page? There is only one reason: To deceive people into believing that Hotbar is endorsed by Microsoft. While the more savvy among us know better, most people have no idea what a Microsoft Certified Partner is or what it means. It has nothing to do with Hotbar's products - yet the logo is displayed solely as another deception - to lull the unsuspecting into thinking Hotbar is safe and endorsed by Microsoft.
So, you can defend any criminal or any unsavory character you want - that is your right. But when you post such uninformed drivel as you have and then call other's comments "week" (sic), you make yourself appear to stand with the unsavory companies like Hotbar - who would do anything, spend any amount of money, to be allowed to rape people's computers with their scumware.
Please do your homework and test Hotbar and find out for yourself what it does and what it does not do before you ramble on about things you know nothing about.
I have proof of every claim I made in this post. I've seen the tests and I have screen shots. | |
| | KB2PSM
join:2002-08-06
Long Beach, NY | Re: The truth about hotbar- Uninstalling??? So, now that my brother-in-law used the computer last night and now I have to swim through annoying and unwanted pop-ups, how does one uninstall this "legitimate" -yeah right) program? I ran the latest version of Ad-Aware, Spy-Bot and just paid for a Norton upgrade. I combed the Add/Remove Programs, but after hours of work, I still get a lovely adopt.hotbar.com browser window as well as another one that loads and changes too quickly for me to block.
So, what am I missing here (other than forbidding my brother-in-law from using the computer again)? He is not the most-internet adept person I know, but he knows not to accept/load any programs or toolbars. He cannot recall being asked/informed about loading anything.
So, for even those who LOVE to support and argue for hotbar, let's say that I REALLY, REALLY wanted it, but for some reason no longer want/need it at this time...how can I seamlessly remove this program and its components? Being "legitimate", I can surely expect that like every other legitimate program I own, there is a clear uninstaller...no?
Waiting for some guidance...
Rob | |
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volntnThe VolunteerPremium
join:2002-01-05
Cleveland, TN | Try Microsoft Anti-SPyware you can download it from majorgeeks.com or look for it in google . | |
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