Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d in Netgear http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r12928929 en Sun, 06 Dec 2009 03:48:20 EDT Sun, 06 Dec 2009 03:48:20 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13582725 Anav : Linksys(owned by CISCO)
So what!, Its real cheap to put a CISCO logo on a box or a router. Third party developers rock compared to linksys firmware. Are you suggesting perhaps third party developers take over CISCO firmware too?? ;-)

Does CISCO have the same outsourcing for support in foreign lands...... I guess your saying they will be moving to that model soon.

Its two separate divisions, without much linkage other than the profit going from one coffer to another CHACHING CHACHING....... They bought linksys due to it being a successfully run profit making venture. Why would they change a working model/process and why would they invest a penny more if people are continuing to buy it........

Ain't nuthin but the blues! "Albert Collins".
Leave your troubles at the door! "Pepe Peregil" De Sevilla. Just Don't Wifi without WPA, "Yul Brenner"

LlamaWorks Equipment]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13582725 Sun, 05 Jun 2005 14:15:55 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13582581 MrMoke :
said by Anav See Profile:

Competition improves quality, hmmm, it lowers the price, not necessarily improves quality. When there is an uneducated mass populace willing to buy based on pretty colour boxes and mass marketing (having been spoon fed on it since childbirth), why would you expect them to change.
Its all about profit and theyre making it in spades. When people stop buying then they will take note.

As for reputation, mercedes, toyota, volvo, honda they have reputations built on quality over time. People don't say Ford or GM, etc... The previously named here, have had product on the shelves, sometimes the only product so its familiarity and exposure NOT quality, NOT reputation. People would more likely say CISCO, IBM, if talking about reputation.....
Anav- Regarding reputation:
Cisco now owns Linksys (enough said)
IBM Deskstar Hd's (enough said)
IBM laptops now made by Levano (enough said)

What we are talking about here is a growing trend of corporations to "Outsource" responsibility for shoddy products, and it is prevalent in the entire supply chain. Many "Manufacturers" are nothing more than shells that "Repackage" someone Else's garbage, and sell it using a different name. These guys don't care if neither the hardware or software work as advertised as long as they can keep the shelves stocked, and either point the finger at someone else or just plain ignore you.

The retailers aren't stupid as some of them (not all of them)will accept returns and see and hear the problems voiced by customers. Neither are they blameless, because they put the products back on the shelves, and ignore pointed questions regarding product quality from future customers.

Governments, all governments, even yours, have their own problems, and the departments who handle consumer complaints usually seem more interested in placating the manufacturers than worrying about quality unless the product crashes and kills someone. Try passing some of the cr*p that passes for consumer electronics through a process like Mil Spec if you want to see a government actually verifying a manufacturer's claims and holding them to their words.

I would be among the first to argue that ten lawyers in a bottomless pit is what you would call a "Good Start", but who else would you use to tackle the lawyers of the guys that you are mad at? My take is that all parties in the supply chain should be included in the lawsuits. There is no incentive whatsoever for Wal-Mart (a.k.a. China's Largest Retail Outlet), Fry's, Best Buy, CompUsa, etc., to change their ways if they have nothing to lose.

Bottom Line:

Not allowing a product to be put on the shelves if it doesn't do exactly what it's marketing materials says it can do is the easiest way to avoid what many consider to be frivolous class-action lawsuits. It does, after all, work for cars, most of the time, in "some" countries. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13582581 Sun, 05 Jun 2005 13:53:19 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13580812 burnetta : Upgraded to Beta 4.2.8 firmware and so far no hangs/drops.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13580812 Sun, 05 Jun 2005 06:12:39 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13540571 Mic : Well, I'm still happy with my MR314, no problems, good old buddy still at work.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13540571 Tue, 31 May 2005 13:54:39 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13539847 BonezX :
said by Anav See Profile:

So you went ahead and got another product from them. Could I interest you in a new and improved WGT6X4 v6. Im sure it will be the cats meow, at least third time lucky ;-) Or is that once bitten twice shy, or is it fool me once shame on me, fool me twice i must be a netgear consumer LOL.
no that's a dlink customer, and it's more like "f*** me once, shame on you, f*** me twice i'm an idiot"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13539847 Tue, 31 May 2005 12:21:20 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13533511 Anav : So you went ahead and got another product from them. Could I interest you in a new and improved WGT6X4 v6. Im sure it will be the cats meow, at least third time lucky ;-) Or is that once bitten twice shy, or is it fool me once shame on me, fool me twice i must be a netgear consumer LOL.
--
Ain't nuthin but the blues! "Albert Collins". Leave your troubles at the door! "Pepe Peregil" De Sevilla. Just Don't Wifi without WPA, "Yul Brenner" LlamaWorks Equipment]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13533511 Mon, 30 May 2005 15:10:19 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13533345 anon : I'm going to try and get in on this. The router was fine...for about a month. Since then, constant drops, crashes, and all kinds of problems. I'm sick of this shit from Netgear - my old MR814 used to do this too. It's about time they paid for all of MY lost time.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13533345 Mon, 30 May 2005 14:47:18 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13524404 WiMStang : Mine is up and running since 3/15/05 with no problems.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13524404 Sun, 29 May 2005 10:25:39 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13524265 anon : Bought a WGT624--router notified that updated firmware was available (4.2.6 beta) and it toasted itself on upgrade.

Called Netgear and they replaced it with a new one although I did have to pay for shipping. New one updated to 4.2.4 is running fine and had no problems whatsoever.

Later saw 4.2.7 or 4.2.8 beta update but have not tried it... don't know why Netgear has the router upgrading to beta firmware.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13524265 Sun, 29 May 2005 09:52:44 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13523098 tentbound : Mine works fine. I did have a problem with rebooting all the time when the wireless was set for 108M. Turning the wireless off or slowing it down to standard "g" mode stopped the problem.

Then I downloaded the latest stable firmware, did a reset, and reconfigured the settings. Works great at all speeds and no reboots. Real strong signal at a pretty good distance.

If it breaks, I'll try another brand. They only cost a little more than a tank of gas.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13523098 Sun, 29 May 2005 01:44:17 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13426547 Anav : Contact netgears lawyers, Im sure they would be glad to have some customer support. ;-)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13426547 Tue, 17 May 2005 07:22:08 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13425365 lso1123 : I purchased the wgt 624 v2 back in october of 2004 and have been up and running every day since not one problem out of this router had a firmware upgrade a few weeks ago and still works just fine. no hang ups or losses ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13425365 Tue, 17 May 2005 00:04:09 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13417896 Anav :
said by erikfl See Profile:

So much for the theory that competition always causes companies to produce better and better products. It seems that it can often cause companies to produce lower and lower quality products to try and compete with lower and lower prices. Since the current attitude of the US government is to let companies pretty much do what they want, the legal system is the only recourse. It may be in some other countries the government is willing to put some limits on opportunistic business practices.

Companies use their reputation to get business. Selling a product that doesn't work reliably, has features that clearly don't work, and ignoring the problems is dishonest. It's being dishonest to the customers that buy the products, dishonest to the retailers that sell the products, and dishonest to the shareholders of the company.

US legal system especially when it comes to lawsuits is in serious need of overhaul. I don't even have to live there to know this. Litigation is one of the biggest wastes of times and a drain on peoples lives and resources, whilst lawyers get Phat. The amount of insurance some ppl (ie doctors etc) have to pay is absolutely ridiculous.

Competition improves quality, hmmm, it lowers the price, not necessarily improves quality. When there is an uneducated mass populace willing to buy based on pretty colour boxes and mass marketing (having been spoon fed on it since childbirth), why would you expect them to change.
Its all about profit and theyre making it in spades. When people stop buying then they will take note.

As for reputation, mercedes, toyota, volvo, honda they have reputations built on quality over time. People don't say Ford or GM, etc... The previously named here, have had product on the shelves, sometimes the only product so its familiarity and exposure NOT quality, NOT reputation. People would more likely say CISCO, IBM, if talking about reputation.....
--
Ain't nuthin but the blues! "Albert Collins". Leave your troubles at the door! "Pepe Peregil" De Sevilla. Just Don't Wifi without WPA, "Yul Brenner" ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13417896 Mon, 16 May 2005 06:27:44 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13414952 erikfl : If you don't like the US legal system, change the system, don't criticize people for using the system. I returned my WGT624 when I had a problem, and read about all the other problems on the NetGear forum. If I had kept the router, I would probably be looking into the class action suit.

Saying that D-Link, Linksys, etc. are no worse than Netgear is saying it's OK to sell products that don't work, then not support them, and then not replace them or remedy the problem in some way. I don't know if a law suit will get any of these companies to change their practices, but doing nothing certainly won't. If I want to believe that returning products will make companies improve the products, I can't find much evidence of that.

The attitude of a lot of companies seems to be, "return it if you don't like it", lots of other people out there will buy it. They ignore the fact that you may not be able to return the product, and you may have wasted a lot of your time trying to make the product work. Worse yet it continually establishes a lower and lower standard for the quality of products and support.

So much for the theory that competition always causes companies to produce better and better products. It seems that it can often cause companies to produce lower and lower quality products to try and compete with lower and lower prices. Since the current attitude of the US government is to let companies pretty much do what they want, the legal system is the only recourse. It may be in some other countries the government is willing to put some limits on opportunistic business practices.

Companies use their reputation to get business. Selling a product that doesn't work reliably, has features that clearly don't work, and ignoring the problems is dishonest. It's being dishonest to the customers that buy the products, dishonest to the retailers that sell the products, and dishonest to the shareholders of the company.

It's fine to say "research the product", but the reality is some reatilers don't post "negative" comments about products, and by the time people start posting negative comments, you may already be stuck with the product. I have yet to see a product review that plainly says "This product doesn't work, don't buy it". Most of them seem to be simply a rewording of the sales literature, with the assumption that the information is generally true. Also, how does a product reviewer verify that a product really does everything it says, and is reliable? The reality is they can't.

If Netgear simply offered to refund the money to people who have not been able to get the product to work reliably, that would be reasonable. If Netgear offered to replace the units with another router that does work reliably, that would be reasonable. Instead Netgear forces each and every customer to go through the frustrating process of trying to convince a technical support person that they really have a defect in their product. Of course Netgear knows most people won't be willing to do that. Also, quite a few of them won't or can't return the product. So Netgear makes a nice profit at the expense of some (ignorant?) consumers who didn't check to see if the product they bought actually works before they bought it.

I'm one of the lucky ones, but I have my share of expensive paperweights sold to me by companies with the same (perhaps less extreme) product deficiencies. I have a big problem with companies that keep releasing product after product and never do anything to address the deficiencies in the products they've already sold. It's making your customers pay for your mistakes, and test your products for you. That's great for companies, but bad for consumers.

So I say yes, explore a class action suit, yes, post negative comments if they're appropriate, and yes, try to get Netgear to do something about the problems. If nothing else these things will clearly show what Netgear is willing or not willing to do about the problems, and what is necessary for consumers to be treated fairly. Just because a product defect doesn't cause injuries or fatalties it doesn't excuse knowingly selling a defective product.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13414952 Sun, 15 May 2005 19:30:49 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13356866 netddos :
said by brahman See Profile:

Netgear used to have good products. Now they are crap, because Netgear has become a big corporation operating in all the worst ways that corporations do, in every department.
I agree with brahman on above comment.

I miss Netgear when they had RT314 with blue metal casing...cheap, rock-solid, and works as advertised.

Now...I dropped Netgear from my list ever since they implemented those "too user friendly" design with lousy stability.

I'm surfing now with Buffalo equipment without a single drop...

Netgear...get your act up...or meet your demise.:mad:

"So this will be another 'lawfirm get's rich - customer get's a $5 coupon?'.

I am all for vendors fixing their stuff (I have a WGR614 collecting dust in the basement - I gave up on it a while back) - but Class Action Suits generally don't benefit the consumer much IMHO..."

I don't really care if I get a 5 dollar coupon or not. I just want them to FIX the issue so I can buy their product again.
--
"No one can be perfect, but you shine through your imperfections."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13356866 Sun, 08 May 2005 00:33:16 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13355195 Anav : Norman, how dare you sully this forum with the mere mention of dinky, linkcrap, and ah ah ah SMChew ;-)

Seriously, great advice!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13355195 Sat, 07 May 2005 20:08:29 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13355058 NormanS :
said by brahman See Profile:

Many of the posts under this topic anger me. If you don't have something helpful to say, shut up.
I think this should have been posted in "Rants, Raves, and Praises". It is not technically useful, or helpful for Netgear product owners with problems.

Of course, you are welcome to file a suit any time you want in the U.S.A. But success will require one of two things; proof of damages, if you are suing over the lack of suitability of the equipment itself, or proof of misrepresentation, if you are suing over the marketing lies. Check with any attorney; they will help you determine which kind of suit to file.

If you don't find that useful, well...uh...ok. Speech is still free in the U.S.A. FWIW, the only router I have had which had problems out of the box was a Linksys BEFSR-11. The only WAP I have seen not work out of the box was a Linksys WAP54G. D-Link, Netgear, and SMC have all worked reliably for me. I have also seen tales of woe about D-Link, Netgear, and SMC products.
--
Norman
~A deam, dream, no dream
~Voices of the night go across the forest
~A dream, dream, no dream
~Good night my good child]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13355058 Sat, 07 May 2005 19:46:33 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13355047 Anav : First this is a forum where people can and do post their opinions even if different from yours. If you don't like them, don't read them. If they are illegal or threatening or abusive by all means use the HEY MODS button vice starting a flame war etc...... (Take the high road)

Second your point....... Netgear is an experienced router company is very amusing. Since when did they make routers??? Since when did they make firmwares. They are a marketing company that buys hardware and firmware from third party vendors. If one is lucky they are both the same so there is a decent match-up between hardware and firmware, case in point the RP114, RT311 and RT314, made for Netgear by ZyXEL. Netgear support has never been good in my experience to boot!!

Third, many people get their product online, suckered in by SPECIALS etc, without talking to anyone. Or they go to best buy, to a young commissioned salesperson whose training focuses probably on how to 'catch the consumer' while Avoiding discussing the quality of the product, the quality of support, etc..... BUT HEY they got this great rebate, and its better cause its got G! Since these stores wash their hands after a sale (sure theyre quite willing to exchange) but probably hoping you will either sink money in an xtra warranty (so they are forced to exchange longer no biggie volume is good lol) or hold onto it long enough that the refund period runs out and only an exchange is possible.

So don't just look at the vendor. The places selling crap have some responsiblity IMHO. Finally the consumer is the person, OF FREE WILL, that parts with their cash. You get what you pay for.......... in the end. The stores and companies probably have more lawyers than you think discussing many of these issues. I'm sure they have it all covered in their copywright, product box literature, return, exchange and refund policies, technical support etc etc..

I'm not saying that the anger is not geniuine or unwarranted, just saying the only message they will understand is a significant loss in sales!!!!!!!!!!
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Ain't nuthin but the blues! "Albert Collins". Leave your troubles at the door! "Pepe Peregil" De Sevilla. Just Don't Wifi without WPA, "Yul Brenner" - (Llama Works Equipment ) -]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13355047 Sat, 07 May 2005 19:45:10 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13354893 brahman : Netgear used to have good products. Now they are crap, because Netgear has become a big corporation operating in all the worst ways that corporations do, in every department. They fully deserve a class-action lawsuit.

Many Netgear devices simply don't work out of the box, or don't work as advertised. Routers are relatively simple devices that should just sit there with lights blinking and work, and work well. Netgear is an experienced router company. For them to produce crap like this means they are behaving very irresponsibly. The quality of their parts and manufacturing has declined. Their programming dept routinely releases untested, buggy firmware. Their marketing dept is outright lying about product features on every carton. Their tech support is a joke and a complete waste of time. They are dumping crap on consumers, while pretending their products are perfect when they should be recalled.

To think that companies have a right to screw consumers when they don't check the newsgroups before purchasing is ridiculous. To think Netgear shouldn't be sued because other companies have crappy products too doesn't make sense - this is a Netgear forum. To think any of this has anything to do with the national debt is absurd. To think everyone has the money to buy another router, or the time to dance around their router performing voodoo tactics, or the desire to stage a boycott at a retail store is ignorant. And to think this boils down to cases where consumers have abused their equipment is to be a Netgear employee.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13354893 Sat, 07 May 2005 19:19:55 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13345596 TheBigDogz : Has anybody tried the new beta firmware? There has been mixed review about it on Netgear's forum...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13345596 Fri, 06 May 2005 13:35:18 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13148100 sammydad1 : Please REFER to: »Netgear WGT624 losing connection as it has a reference to a HEAT Issue Resolution on the Netgear Forum site.

ALTHO we shouldn't have to contend with faulty designs, sometimes you do. At this point I am VERY optimistic that the Heat Issue is in fact the correct resolution for these routers.

THAT being the case, there is no point for class action lawsuits.

Dave]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13148100 Tue, 12 Apr 2005 01:51:18 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13146737 anon : Forgot to ask... do the other models run at hight temps?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13146737 Mon, 11 Apr 2005 22:21:52 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13146706 anon : My first WGT634U was freezing/dropping and extremely warm, so I exchanged it. My second one runs just as warm... which kinda makes me laugh. Intel's Prescott processors run cooler than whatever they put in this thing... Anyway, I bought a $10 desk fan just to keep the damn thing cool. It works fine too, actually up and running for a steady 9 months and no reboots at the present time.

Netgears tech suport told me the heat problem was normal. They also told me that having SPI on can cause the internet connection to drop. Why on earth whould I not want SPI on? Anyway, I was able to hold a steady connection w/o SPI on the first router, but it still ran like crap. The second router one holds a connection with SPI on and no issues. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13146706 Mon, 11 Apr 2005 22:19:33 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13146325 BonezX : look in the dlink fourm, hundreds of issues, with no solution to them by the dlink techs on the fourm, and not responded to by dlink techs, only by other users that have figured out how to fix it.

and what model linksys were you talking about that had a failure(which was most likely a user error then a hardware error because if it was hardware you can RMA it at no cost)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13146325 Mon, 11 Apr 2005 21:36:28 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13139945 NormanS :
said by Gorn See Profile:

Yeah, but when a LinkSys with a stock adapter shoved under a pile of dirty clothes in a beam of sunlight with a power strip next to the heat register works great, then the apologists for Netgear start looking really bad.

This is about principle, and about training companies to never.do.this.again.
Only two pieces of equipment which gave me grief were both built by Linksys. I won't touch them. Ever. SMC, Netgear, D-Link; I have or know people who have those units. Running forever.

Where's my Linksys lawsuit?
--
Norman
~A deam, dream, no dream
~Voices of the night go across the forest
~A dream, dream, no dream
~Good night my good child]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13139945 Mon, 11 Apr 2005 03:33:18 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13136701 Anav : Nice flowery prose guardius. Your whole judiciary system is based on the free will of the people, but I see that being eroded, perhaps you should look in before criticing out, but I suspect aka GW, its easier to play world copper instead of taking care of your own,,,,,,, 7.7 trillion in debt and growing!

As for the router, as we have heard here, the unit works fine for some and not for others. Considering there is much user error, I suspect that the majority of cases the units work fine. (at least for internet access and creating a LAN) As far as features and getting it all to work, well that can be a dogs breakfast.

I would say that most manufacturers have a return period and a warranty period. I suggest people exercise those rights, and the right to research prior to a purchase. Whining about a poor choice after the fact, may be a legitimate "excuse" for children but not for adults. You know if you buy a Toyota that your buying quality, reliablity etc, and it costs a bit more. When you buy others, and the price is cheaper, well guess what, if your smart you buy an extended warranty LOL.......
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Ain't nuthin but the blues! "Albert Collins". Leave your troubles at the door! "Pepe Peregil" De Sevilla. Just Don't Wifi without WPA, "Yul Brenner" - (Llama Works Equipment ) -]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13136701 Sun, 10 Apr 2005 18:11:48 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13136137 anon : Sarcastic lama I'm not sure you're in the United States, or if you're familiar with the laws therein - but you need to understand that there is such a thing as product liability law. It is a function of the US justice system. It is one of the RIGHTS afforded to US citizens who have purchased a product in the United States.

You speak about 'research' and knowing whether or not a product should be good and so forth, and that's fine if YOU want to do that. However not all consumers will know where or how to investigate Netgear products, the WGT624 in particular, nor what problems to even investigate. Product litigation law is designed to protect consumers from corporations producing half-assed products and pushing them off on the public.

Your arguments are poorly reasoned, not backed by facts, and clearly lack an understanding of the US judicial system. What I WOULD suggest to those considering legal action is that the goal of the action should be for Netgear to issue a recall of the products so that they can be replaced with ones that work. You can tell your attorneys that this is what you're interested in, and that you're not interested in a monetary settlement. This is within your rights and if you tell your attorneys that this is what you want, they will have to follow through with this or risk being dis-bar'd.

Anyways, llama I think you need to either learn more about the system that you seem to suggest should not be used. Especially given that it is one of the consumers rights. If you don't want to use that right - that's up to you. If others do, that is their right. Just because you choose not to use things at your disposal doesn't mean that others shouldn't.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13136137 Sun, 10 Apr 2005 16:36:37 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13134249 jsmiddleton4 : I've put up a WGT624 for friend in their home and its been running now for months. Not one problem. Updated firmware as directed. Thing has been rock solid.

Jim]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13134249 Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:34:30 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13133025 bobmitch : First off...I had great success with my old Netgear MR314...three years...bulletproof service. So when it was time to upgrade to G / Super G...I went with the WRT624. Not only did I expect the same results as the past three years...but I got a great deal where the router was $39 on sale...figured..."Time to upgrade"...what a BIG mistake. First router just plain died...brought it back within three days...store apologized and gave me another to try. This time...I had read where there was a potential problem with the power supply...so I used the PS from my old MR314...the 624 ran GREAT for a week...so I figured...rather than burn the thing out...I put the PS that came with it on. Within two days...the router began to drop wireless...and I had a reboot episode that was so bad...where the router got stuck rebooting non stop...that I had to pull the power from the unit and plug it back in. Brought that one back and replaced it with a Linksys with Speedbooster. Nice router...but after a week it began to drop wireless connection more and more frequently. At this point...I brought the whole thing back and re-hooked my my MR314. Running slow as mollases due to the fact that it was choking my comcast connecton by at least 25%. In addition...I called Netgear tech support once and had a time understanding the conversation....the only thing I could understand is when they asked me for a credit card number because the router wasn't yet registered....what bologna.

Long and short of it...I kept reading all the forums from Linksys, Belkin, and so on...until I came across Buffalo Technologies. Every one had minor problems to Linksys, Netgear and D-Link especially. Very few problems...but lots of questions and lots of informed answers. So I posted questions about rebooting and dropping wireless...NONE! Asked how performance was with the 125mpps router...Almost exactly the same as the Linksys...Speedbooster unit and slightly slower than the Netgear. In mixed mode...the Buffalo WBR2-G54S was definately one of the better ones...only been beaten by the Belkin Pre-N. So I figured I had nothing to lose...and all to gain...purchased the BR2G54S...wow...10 days non stop, no rebooting...except when I made some adjustments to the router settings. Liked the router so much I went out and got the USB2 card for my second desktop and the PCMCIA card for my laptop. Signal range is about the same as the Netgear and Linksys. Wired and wireless speeds are excellent. No wireless drops...I am so happy I am looking for something to break...so I can fix it or purchase a new one of something. You can sue Netgear if you like...or just STOP buying their products. I called Buffalo Tech support with some questions, BTW, and talked to a guy in Austin, Tx...very polite...extremely knowledgable. I am a happy Buffalo Tech customer. Think about it...How much have I spent with new Buffalo Afterburner products...Netgear doesn't see a penny of it. They can run deals and sales all they want...I have kept numerous people in stores from making my mistakes. Posts like this one help a great deal. There are others out there looking to be informed...and this is one of the finest places to get an education.

Keep up the good work in every facet.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13133025 Sun, 10 Apr 2005 02:04:00 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13126721 Anav : Cheap often means scrimping on other aspects SUCH as SUPPORT. Both ZyXEL and Buffalo have IN THE USA support.
Buffalo, has reasonable tech support. ZyXEL has very good tech support backed up by an engineering division on site.
--
Ain't nuthin but the blues! "Albert Collins". Leave your troubles at the door! "Pepe Peregil" De Sevilla. Just Don't Wifi without WPA, "Yul Brenner" - (Llama Works Equipment ) -]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13126721 Sat, 09 Apr 2005 08:02:32 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13126056 fung : Buy cheap, get cheap.

I like Netgear's pcmcia cards, they don't *always* mess those up. But I know the WG511T had some driver issues. I love my WG511, and the MA501 was one of the best cards around, IMO.

Alternatively, Zyxel is an excellent product. So is Buffallo.

From my experience what makes a good product is how long and crowded the pipeline from support to DEV/Engineering is. How long do you think a pipeline is to India? Even with VOIP! Electrons still only move so fast. If it is long, then the support as well as the product generally sucks. And keeps sucking, because there isn't communication to lead to any type of fix. Or maybe because the support sucks in the first place, the company never cared about fixing anything after the initial release. Depends on how you look at it.

But nobody wants to pay the money for good support, the company or the consumer. So the 20-60 dollar routers continue to get pumped out and you get what you pay for. ( unless you nuts and buy the router when it first releases at 130 dollars, then you get raped )]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13126056 Sat, 09 Apr 2005 02:40:36 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13125911 sammydad1 : I think an Alternative method would be to coodinate weekly pickets at your local BestBuy (etc) around the country. I think THEY are the folks who can put heat on a manufacturer.

Imagine if we were able to get people out front of every one of the Best Buy store around the country....get some local TV stations with consumer support reporters...

What i want is a router that works all the time...not here and there...and I AM using a UPS....I still get daily resets or more often...

I don't need no stinkin $5 coupon...I want it to work !! When it does, it works great !!

Dave]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13125911 Sat, 09 Apr 2005 02:00:06 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13108028 anon : The one thing that really ticks me off is that customer support dismisses my problems as normal and refuse to do anything further.

I purchased a WGT624 about six months ago, and I was quite happy with it. A few while ago, I went to upgrade the firmware so that it would be XBox certified. The router stopped responding after the upgrade (I assume corrupt data in the firmware). The router did not have any back-up mechanism to fix the firmware, so I had to call up support and they said they would replace it.

I recieved my device, which was a slightly newer model of the WGT624. This one exhibited connection drops frequently, and an incredibly poor wireless range (I can only get a 5.5mbps connection with my G card from 10 feet away). I talked to support again, and they refused to help.

There is no way for me to return or replace the product. I would like to purchase a new router, but my financial situation doesn't allow me to.

Now, I'm not completely sure if a lawsuit is the right way to go (I live in the US by the way), but I would like to see NetGear take responcibility for a faulty product. They have been fairly silent on the issue, and refuse to reply to emails regarding the problem. I think to be a respectable company, Netgear should be more aware of their consumers.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13108028 Thu, 07 Apr 2005 00:13:28 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13024893 fps12 : I have a wgt634u and it runs great, It runs a lot better than the linksys I had before it .. All this is is just a sue them because we can jibber jabber .. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13024893 Mon, 28 Mar 2005 12:58:03 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13024641 egou :
said by Anav See Profile:

Take responsibility for your decisions and actions and move on.
Think I'll take your advise and do just that.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13024641 Mon, 28 Mar 2005 12:23:15 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13024613 egou :
said by dslnutter See Profile:

Egou let's say lawsuit drives them out of business have consider what will happen to those who have not had problems with their products.
Nothing really, they'll go on living, marrying, having kids, cheating on their tax returns, and dying eventually, I am afraid.
said by dslnutter See Profile:

Whatever is decided someone other then those of who have had issues with their products will suffer.
On the contrary, they'll be spared suffering by not having to speak with Netgear's tech support.
said by dslnutter See Profile:

Those who are serious about truly wanting a solutions should make them selves heard by joining forces and making the company understand in united voice what their beef's are and best of all you do not need a lawyer for that.
Good luck.
This has been fun, I think I'll buy more Netgear products so I can have more discussions like this one.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13024613 Mon, 28 Mar 2005 12:20:16 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13024425 Anav : Egou, simply refuse to buy their products, and tell your friends and the people at the store who sold you the goods.
There are forums like this to research before you buy, as well as return policies. Take responsibility for your decisions and actions and move on. If all of you are serious then I would expect to see you in every netgear thread cautioning people about the quality of the product or the lack of support from your own experience. Funny, that doesnt seem to happen, either walk the walk, or move on.
--
Ain't nuthin but the blues! "Albert Collins". Leave your troubles at the door! "Pepe Peregil" De Sevilla. Just Don't Wifi without WPA, "Yul Brenner" - (Llama Works Equipment ) -]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13024425 Mon, 28 Mar 2005 11:57:58 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13024234 dslnutter : Egou let's say lawsuit drives them out of business have consider what will happen to those who have not had problems with their products.
Whatever is decided someone other then those of who have had issues with their products will suffer.
Those who are serious about truly wanting a solutions should make them selves heard by joining forces and making the company understand in united voice what their beef's are and best of all you do not need a lawyer for that.

Dslnutter :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13024234 Mon, 28 Mar 2005 11:32:13 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13024135 egou :
said by dslnutter See Profile:

I have being following this thread and must agree with many others that class action against netgear about dumbest thing one can consider.
I have have used many of netgear equipment over years with minor issues.
This does not mean that everybody is as lucky.
Egou and others thinking about class action have you considered you may force them to close does not enter into the equation does and you will have paperweight with no hope of a solutions.
You must take into consideration lawyers a greedy they do nothing for your own good they fill their pockets and give nothing but penny in change.
Now you could get some people togther and try to work things out with Netgear providing complete precise report of all your woes.
Do not tell me their no one on these forums that as contacts for executives or somebody high up on latter at NetGear.

Dslnutter :)
This is the first product that I bought from Netgear. As with any other product I buy, I expect it to work as advertised. It does not. My attempts to return/exchange this product failed so far. I can not afford to have my connection dropped, nor do I have time or desire to establish a "Netgear please fix my router or I will dedicate the rest of my life to boycotting your products" organization.
This discussion became more about lawyers then about Netgear products. I am not particularly blood hungry, but a lawyer may be the last friend one has when something goes wrong with a product they buy. With no other resolution in sight, I see a lawsuit as a viable option. And if it drives Netgear out of business, I will not miss their products very much.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13024135 Mon, 28 Mar 2005 11:16:35 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13024056 dslnutter : I have being following this thread and must agree with many others that class action against netgear about dumbest thing one can consider.
I have have used many of netgear equipment over years with minor issues.
This does not mean that everybody is as lucky.
Egou and others thinking about class action have you considered you may force them to close does not enter into the equation does and you will have paperweight with no hope of a solutions.
You must take into consideration lawyers a greedy they do nothing for your own good they fill their pockets and give nothing but penny in change.
Now you could get some people togther and try to work things out with Netgear providing complete precise report of all your woes.
Do not tell me their no one on these forums that as contacts for executives or somebody high up on latter at NetGear.

Dslnutter :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13024056 Mon, 28 Mar 2005 11:02:04 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13023127 egou :
said by Anav See Profile:

Suing in most instances is done as a cowardly act by those not willing to take responsibility for their own actions.
Yes, there are cases where this is not the case and is a necessary action. Whining due to poor choices and no research as if listening to the kid at circuit city counts LMAO.. paleease. No wonder insurance costs are out of whack down south....
Man, you are annoying.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13023127 Mon, 28 Mar 2005 07:29:20 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13020019 Anav : Suing in most instances is done as a cowardly act by those not willing to take responsibility for their own actions.
Yes, there are cases where this is not the case and is a necessary action. Whining due to poor choices and no research as if listening to the kid at circuit city counts LMAO.. paleease. No wonder insurance costs are out of whack down south....
--
Ain't nuthin but the blues! "Albert Collins". Leave your troubles at the door! "Pepe Peregil" De Sevilla. Just Don't Wifi without WPA, "Yul Brenner" - (Llama Works Equipment ) -]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13020019 Sun, 27 Mar 2005 19:08:00 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13019938 maartena : Rest of world: This product sucks! I'ma gonna trade it in for a different brand. Okay lose $60 maybe, but at least I will have something that works.

United States of America: This product sucks! Lets sue everyone slightly connected to it and force them to fix the product I paid a full $60 for!!
--
And i'm right. I'm always right, but this time I'm a little more right then I usually am.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13019938 Sun, 27 Mar 2005 18:58:39 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13019073 anon : For your guys info..

These routers fall apart AFTER about a month or 2 of operation. It is totally related to the wireless functions and the routers continue to work fine with wireless disabled.

Also, it only affects the v1 and v2 generation, v3 generation changed chipsets.

So, get your fact straight, and 7 days of fine operation is NORMAL. tell us after MONTHS of operation how its going.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13019073 Sun, 27 Mar 2005 16:30:14 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13017446 Anav : Sales is what drives these companies, mass productions and volume. If the numbers go down they get squeezed fast. Thus do not buy and discourage others from buying. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13017446 Sun, 27 Mar 2005 12:20:50 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13014659 mackerm : Just out of curiosity, what do you believe is the appropriate response to a company which continues to sell flaky products? Bad-mouth them in internet forums and then lick your wounds? So far, that hasn't done much to discourage them.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13014659 Sat, 26 Mar 2005 23:30:38 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13013745 anon : Aren't you all big and strong and empowered. "The lawyers" with whom you "cooperate fully" are not at all interested in helping you. They will get a nice chunk of money one way or another, and screw you. You'll get a "$5 off next NetGear purchase" coupon, as you deserve. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13013745 Sat, 26 Mar 2005 21:11:10 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13009479 Seaboogers : That's funny....I got mine at Staples on Black Friday of 2004....the router I got has been running fine since then....no lock ups...no reboots....zilch....

I previously had a DLink DWL-614+...the only reason I replaced it was to go from B to G. (Not to mention the fact the router was on sale for $20 after rebates AND included a wireless pc card too)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13009479 Sat, 26 Mar 2005 10:27:58 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12998531 Anav : Ur power supply issues have nothing to do with router vendors.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12998531 Thu, 24 Mar 2005 23:07:03 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12998031 anon : America is the land of dirty power! Netgear should have designed this into the product. Mine drops either in Thunderstorms or high winds. If the weather is good the router is great. As soon as something is happening that effects the stable power supply it drops (not power outage or even spikes). I suggest we all go out a get a UPS to keep our routers stable. Hey now wait lets let netgear supply us the cash to buy one.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12998031 Thu, 24 Mar 2005 22:12:42 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12997260 Anav : Another example of the US going down the litigation toilet.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12997260 Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:46:46 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12995044 mackerm : I sent in the complaint to the lawyers, and I'm going to cooperate fully. I paid almost $50 for my WGR614 last July, and I think Netgear ripped me off with an inherently defective product.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12995044 Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:34:42 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12992057 Anav : Actually, you would be surprised, they support ISP providers to grandma's. They are very patient, and what convinced me to gravitate in their direction was when I needed RT314 support and it quickly became apparent that the netgear phone support was useless. I pretended to have the Prestige P314 and got my issues resolved via ZyXEL phone support, of course I knew didly squat then, and just a teeny bit more now! Reading between the lines, most issues are RTFM or users knowing the square root of eff all.
Granted they are not open weekends or holidays, it works great for me. I understand your point but counter also by pointing out that I see many integrators here in the forums (begging for nasty replies ;-) ) buying dlink, netgear and linksys etc for clients. I think its arrogant and foolish to assume that one is going to be around all the time, (sickness, vacation, getting out of business) and to leave no credible support entity in place is irresponsible. My two cents.......
--
Ain't nuthin but the blues! "Albert Collins". Leave your troubles at the door! "Pepe Peregil" De Sevilla. Just Don't Wifi without WPA, "Yul Brenner" - (Llama Works Equipment ) -]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12992057 Thu, 24 Mar 2005 10:11:01 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12991521 Shad0wlore : Agreed on that point, Joe... I've seen some really funky issues disappear on alot of products once you plug them into a clean power source.

Shadowlore]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12991521 Thu, 24 Mar 2005 08:53:23 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12991493 Shad0wlore : True, but you have to admit, Anav, that ZyXEL products aren't exactly low level consumer products. The tech support offered by a company is only as good as the level of technical knowlege of the user.

If my mother-in-law called into ZyXEL's tech support.. I'd put $$$ on the fact they'd get frustrated ;)

Don't get me wrong... I love their tech support, what little interaction I've had with them. But they, honestly, are dealing with a whole other level of user. ;)

Shadowlore]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12991493 Thu, 24 Mar 2005 08:48:43 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12991307 Anav : Yes, but your toaster works fine, so you would lose! ;-)
ZyXEL tech support is very good.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12991307 Thu, 24 Mar 2005 08:11:30 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12991294 JoeARein : Yes Netgear has produced and marketed a less than perfect product. So have half the manufactures in the world. Yes NetGear support is poor. Few companies have good support on consumer products it they have any at all. I own a Netgear router and had all the reboot/disconnect problems. One day I installed a UPS and all my problems went away. It appears Netgear wireless routers are sensitive to power issues. We all know that the electric company supplies less that a perfect poser source to our homes. Maybe we should seek a class action against the electric company for a faulty power source that they know is faulty.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12991294 Thu, 24 Mar 2005 08:07:34 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12978871 WiMStang : I think I must be the lucky one...mine has been up and running for 7 days without a problem. I have added two wired and 3 wireless machines running everything from Windows 98 to XP to the mix. Nothing but great speeds and easy installs. I have nothing bad to say at this point and would expect this router to continue as is. I have mine set up high on a shelf and have no wireless phone in the office. I upgraded before adding machines and am running ver 3. Great buy at staples for about 50 bucks. Good luck everyone and I hope mine continues.
--
Life is a treasure hunt...you just have to know where to look.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12978871 Tue, 22 Mar 2005 21:14:32 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12969246 egou :
said by suprleg See Profile:

I just purchased a Netgear WGT624 and yes I've had a few problems as well. The drivers that shipped with the unit refused to work on a 98SE box and once I ferreted out drivers that would work the router constantly looses sync and the signal is very weak at approximately 40'.
My question is this: has anyone had a good experience with this router? I'd like to hear something good or I probably will return it before the magic 15 days are up. Thanks
See for yourself »forum1.netgear.com/support/viewforum.php?f=6]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12969246 Mon, 21 Mar 2005 20:48:44 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12968944 suprleg : I just purchased a Netgear WGT624 and yes I've had a few problems as well. The drivers that shipped with the unit refused to work on a 98SE box and once I ferreted out drivers that would work the router constantly looses sync and the signal is very weak at approximately 40'.
My question is this: has anyone had a good experience with this router? I'd like to hear something good or I probably will return it before the magic 15 days are up. Thanks]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12968944 Mon, 21 Mar 2005 20:15:14 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12964984 ImpetusEra : Without solid numbers I don't think you can claim it to be a significant problem. For all anyone knows the percentage of affected units could be less than 10%. When it comes to product reviews your much more likely to see someone post a gripe about it than how happy they are with it. As an example take a look at a Ford forum. The number of posts regarding spark plug blowout would make you think every Ford with the V8-V10 is affected by this. I can tell you mine isn't though. But what stands out to people is all these posts of people saying how it happened to them and suddenly it's some huge problem. Manufacturers aren't entirely stupid. They investigate feedback regarding their product. Likely the case is this problem isn't widespread enough for it to be considered a problem. I highly doubt they'd continue to manufacturer the product if it was going to damage their reputation amongst a vast amount of their consumers. How many people have 100 viruses on their computer and tons of spyware then call it and Windows junk cause it locks up and crashes every 3 minutes? There's a lot of outside factors that can affect the operation of the router, but it's easier to assume the problem is the router rather than look at the whole picture and investigate if it's actually something causing a problem for the router. Lots of companies have their tech support based out of another country, these days it's hard to find one that isn't. The whole router was probably made there too. There isn't a company that doesn't start you off with the bottom of the pyramid level tech support. It only makes sense to follow a solution tree when it comes to tech support rather than a hit and miss approach at arriving to the solution of a problem.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12964984 Mon, 21 Mar 2005 11:58:01 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12961257 Anav : No argument on the poor quality and response. The way to counter that is to stop buying their products. Just reading through the netgear forum and posts will quickly paint an ugly picture. True it represents those not happy way more than those content but its still of value and should cause anyone to pause before buying. But Just look at the people frothing at the mouth to get the FVS318 version 3 LOL. Looks like it aint (boycott) going to happen anytime soon though. Anything that gives business to lawyers should be avoided, just like bad routers!!!
--
Ain't nuthin but the blues! "Albert Collins". Leave your troubles at the door! "Pepe Peregil" De Sevilla. Just Don't Wifi without WPA, "Yul Brenner" - (Llama Works Equipment ) -]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12961257 Sun, 20 Mar 2005 21:38:10 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12961036 egou :
said by Anav See Profile:

Sounds like you made many mistakes for someone of such lofty position.

Crappy research of both product and support available BEFORE the purchase. (did you listen to some pimply faced expert at circuit city??)
Failed to return/switch faulty router in a timely manner, for a refund. Sounds like you can still get an RMA replacment and others seem to have reasonable results.
Heck you wouldn't cut it as the photocopy guy in some places, except if you used FedEx ;-)

I suggest you RMA it, when you get one that works, give it as a gift to an employee and then do your homework properly.
Has it ever occur to you that one may not notice problems right away, but only after a while, but by then the store would not take the product back?
As for research, I know I did do mine, did not find any negatives at the time.
But more importantly, I think you are missing the point. Netgear did and continues to sell a faulty product, for which they do not want to take responsibility. How do you deal with such a manufacturer? I think taking them to a court, just like you'd do if someone sold you a faulty item and would not replace it, is the right thing to do.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12961036 Sun, 20 Mar 2005 21:14:51 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12960573 BonezX :
said by DaveNJ See Profile:

i would not buy another Netgear product after my experience with support, netgear creates products that have faults and doesnt support them.
look at dlink and say that netgear does not support anything.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12960573 Sun, 20 Mar 2005 20:29:21 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12959712 Anav : Sounds like you made many mistakes for someone of such lofty position.

Crappy research of both product and support available BEFORE the purchase. (did you listen to some pimply faced expert at circuit city??)
Failed to return/switch faulty router in a timely manner, for a refund. Sounds like you can still get an RMA replacment and others seem to have reasonable results.
Heck you wouldn't cut it as the photocopy guy in some places, except if you used FedEx ;-)

I suggest you RMA it, when you get one that works, give it as a gift to an employee and then do your homework properly.
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Ain't nuthin but the blues! "Albert Collins". Leave your troubles at the door! "Pepe Peregil" De Sevilla. Just Don't Wifi without WPA, "Yul Brenner" - (Llama Works Equipment ) -]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12959712 Sun, 20 Mar 2005 18:47:18 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12957992 ramf42 : As the original poster, I was asked to comment on some of the anti-class-actions comments. I don’t like the dogmatic tone of some of the comments - I prefer fact based, rationale concrete discussions and would be glad to continue to participate if that is what we will have.

First - about myself - I am a software executive in the mobile space. I know first hand what it takes - business and engineering wise - to develop and launch mass market embedded devices. The schedule pressures, the testing and QA process and the compromises made along the way. I make those decisions when it comes to my product line and I know what it means to think about liability. And just to verify – I am in the mobile space (Cellular) – not competing with Netgear in any way.

I have dealt with faulty products in the past - and have NEVER even got clause to the point that I thought I needed to sue to the manufacturer. Returned them. Found a workaround. Buried them in the basement.

This time, with Netgear, it was different. Three reasons:

1. The router problem is significant and many people experience it.
After two months of struggling with the unit and researching online forums, it became evident that this was a serious, recurring problem. And that Netgear must know about it. If you follow the discussions in the Netgear webs site (»forum1.netgear.com/support/viewt···tart=390) you will see the details. This is not a glitch that only I experienced, but a consistent problem that a significant portion (yes, not all – a few lucky fellows) of the customers are experiencing. It also seems to be related to either power supply or heating problem. I.e. not only software glitch, but bad hardware design.

2. Netgear fails to support the product properly
I have talked to Netgear support a few times total of a few hours. Customer support was in India, and they were useless. The discussions forums had much more info. A responsible company would have informed their support staff, and offered to replace the routers or refund the money. Instead, they wasted my time with the standard questions 'did you upgrade the firmware?' (Yes, I have and have also switched back to try the older version just in case it is bug you introduced in the latest version). Wouldn’t it be nice to have a notice on the website that they are aware of the problem and working on a fix? Special number to call if you have experienced the specific disconnect problems and need a new unit? No. Netgear has done nothing.

3. Netgear continues to sell the failing product. Netgear continues to sell the product as if it is perfect. They never acknowledge the problem and just continue to sell the product as if it is working great. This is dishonest.

So these three reasons led me to decide that in this case, investigating a class action against Netgear is justifiable. An irresponsible company that refuses to be accountable to a product they put out in the market - and for which me and many of you paid for and didn’t get the any value out of.

Hope this helps people understand why I took the step of starting a complaint. And just like somebody else said – all I am looking for is to get my money back. If enough of us insist on this, Netgear will learn the lesson.

R]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12957992 Sun, 20 Mar 2005 14:56:19 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12955429 jrollo : Personally, I would be happy to see Netgear pay a large sum for producing this router, even if I don't see a dime.

How is it OK to produce a defective router, and then not revise the hardware and issue replacement equipment? I have the WGT634U, and it has been sitting collecting dust for months. I had to finally give up on using it.

And if this does make it to court, and we end up getting a winning verdict, it seems to me like the appropriate compensation would be a replacement router. That would be fine by me.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12955429 Sun, 20 Mar 2005 05:50:14 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12945509 WiMStang : I just bought the WGT624 from my local Staples and it has been up and running flawlessly for the last 3 days. I upgraded immediately and it now says Ver. 3. Had been running a Belkin Pre-N and this unit is every bit as strong in range. Returned the Belkin as it constantly reset itself and lost all settings. I hope I don't have to go through that BS again. So far, so good. Anyway a law suit is not the way to gain improved products as it sucks the life out of good companies. No, the best way is to return the product and register your complaint with the company so they can resolve the issue.
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Life is a treasure hunt...you just have to know where to look.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12945509 Fri, 18 Mar 2005 20:17:28 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12945026 codydog : I use a 614 v1 and it has been rock-solid for at least 12-15 months or so. All I ever did was upgrade the firmware since I bought it for $20 after rebate.

I've read all the endless trashing of netgear and honestly dont see it. I'm thinking of buying the 538 now cause this 614 has worked so well. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12945026 Fri, 18 Mar 2005 19:16:47 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12944962 egou : For all of you sceptical about this law suit - what a consumer like myself to do when a product - in this case Netgear 614v4 - locks up every other day and its manufacturer is totally ignorant to it?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12944962 Fri, 18 Mar 2005 19:10:05 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12943488 codydog : It sounds more like a "green mail" lawsuit - where the plaintiff sues the defendant for some large sum, gets headlines and then agrees to settle for some other number.
It ends up being cheaper for the defendant to settle than to pay lawyer fees, lose worktime etc.

I'm just curious, as a question to the original poster, why not sue every router maker / pc builder as they all have had problems from time to time. In fact, based on your premise, why not sue every company alphabetically in the phonebook? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12943488 Fri, 18 Mar 2005 16:20:08 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12941306 Shad0wlore : Ok.. I'm a bit miffed about this whole deal. Let me get this straight.. something doesn't operate the way *YOU* feel it does... and as such, you are now looking into legal action... welcome to the good ole USA... The place where you can spill hot coffee on your crotch and sue for it.

As someone who has a number of contacts at Netgear, (and who has helped quite a number of people here fix their glitches from time to time) I'm really offended.

I can safely say that 75-90% of all the 'complaints' I've seen are nothing more than misinformed individuals, trying to use a product improperly.

The other thing to keep in mind, is the people here on BBR are the miniority of individuals using the products. For every 1 person here, there are probably 100 that aren't here.

Please don't waste the court system, the taxpayers, and these attorney's time.

Shadowlore]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12941306 Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:48:27 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12936736 Anav : Another example of NA eagerness to absolve oneself of any responsibility. Who did what research before buying. Which store sold you the product. Lots of ppl to look at before the marketer (and they dont really design and make their own to begin with ' perhaps you should look at the parts vendors!!) Suggest the answer is clear, better research before buying, if you want to boycott their products and tell your friends likewise, also viable. Sueing.....thats a cowardly act.
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Ain't nuthin but the blues! "Albert Collins". Leave your troubles at the door! "Pepe Peregil" De Sevilla. Just Don't Wifi without WPA, "Yul Brenner" - (Llama Works Equipment ) -]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12936736 Thu, 17 Mar 2005 20:05:58 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12935872 Stoofa : Oh look - a call to sue from the US.
Please shoot me if we ever get as bad as this in the UK.

What ever happened to simply returning an item if it doesn't work.
Then, vowing never to buy anything by that company again?
But no....there must be some suing going on which will make the end customer no money at all.
*Sigh*]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12935872 Thu, 17 Mar 2005 18:18:00 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12934544 Gorn : Yeah, but when a LinkSys with a stock adapter shoved under a pile of dirty clothes in a beam of sunlight with a power strip next to the heat register works great, then the apologists for Netgear start looking really bad.

This is about principle, and about training companies to never.do.this.again.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12934544 Thu, 17 Mar 2005 15:23:45 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12933805 ImpetusEra : $1.66 x the amount of affected units. When it comes to electronics there's two things to do. First look for reviews on it before you buy. Second thing is make sure to use it a lot after you buy it. If it doesn't suit your needs return it and exchange for a different product. Try a generic power adapter to see if it's power supply related. I haven't had any problems with any of my equipment. Lots of problems arise from what the user does and the environment it's on. I'm sure plenty of people have these units sitting in a direct beam of sunlight for half the day plugged into a power strip shoved up next to the heat register. Plenty of people probably have routers sitting on the dusty floor in their room with 3 days worth of dirty clothes piled on top of it then call it junk cause it overheats and locks up. Maybe they got their 2.4GHz cordless phone next to the wireless router on their desk. Or the microwave is 5 feet away from it. There's lots of factors in what can make equipment seem like junk, every product and all the vendors have consumer complaints so go ahead and run, but you can't hide.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12933805 Thu, 17 Mar 2005 13:15:03 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12933343 DaveNJ : i would not buy another Netgear product after my experience with support, netgear creates products that have faults and doesnt support them. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12933343 Thu, 17 Mar 2005 11:54:48 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12928929 codydog : Since you feel so good about these lawyers, whats their hourly rate?

Personally, I would write to the judge and implore him/her to not include me in this lawsuit.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12928929 Wed, 16 Mar 2005 20:33:27 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12928702 ramf42 : I run software development for a company that develops embedded products. Mobile - cellular space - not competing with Netgear - but I know what it means to deliver software products on difficult environment. If my company ever released a product with the defects that Netgear has (Check out the Netgear BBS for details – it seems to be defective power supply and heating in those units, and Netgear completely ignores the consumer complaints here) we would have to recalled it instantly. We know we would have gotten sued for much less then the mistakes Netgear have done. And this mechanism holds us accountable.

"Lawyers get rich on, consumer get nothing"
What are you basing your statement on?

Lawyers typically get 1/3 of what you get as consumer. At the most. So if you get $5, they get $1.66 for doing all the work and research upfront without any guarntees.

So if you like letting companies take advantage of you - which Netgear has done and continues to do with these models - go ahead and stay quite. If you want to get your money back - which is probably what is going to happen – and verify that it does not happen with the next product you buy, speak up.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12928702 Wed, 16 Mar 2005 20:11:21 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /d http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12928376 hansmuff : I fully agree with blohner. What do you hope to achieve? Get $5 back? And make Lawyers rich?
You won't get a better firmware or product from such a lawsuit. You will help drive Netgear into financial ruin. Great news for consumers, I guess.
You won't get my support.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12928376 Wed, 16 Mar 2005 19:38:53 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12923385 blohner : So this will be another 'lawfirm get's rich - customer get's a $5 coupon?'.

I am all for vendors fixing their stuff (I have a WGR614 collecting dust in the basement - I gave up on it a while back) - but Class Action Suits generally don't benefit the consumer much IMHO...
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I am addicted to speed --- OOL speed that is ---
~Help find a cure for cancer~Proud Member Team Discovery]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12923385 Wed, 16 Mar 2005 09:31:19 EDT Re: Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12923188 codydog : How do you prove financial damages if a wireless router drops you? Just curious.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12923188 Wed, 16 Mar 2005 09:01:43 EDT Class action against Netgear - WGT624 hangs /drops http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12918191 ramf42 : If anybody has been experiencing serious reboots or hangs with their Netgear WGR614 WGT624 or WGT634. The problems seems to be hardware related (heating or power supply or both).

I had the problem and gave up on Netgear - bought a Linksys instead and it has been great.

The national law firm of Lieff Cabraser Heimann & Bernstein, LLP, is investigating consumer complaints concerning Netgear wireless routers. The complaints include allegations that the routers frequently drop connections, operate intermittently, and require frequent resetting and/or power cycling.

If you think this is happening to you, please go to »www.lieffcabraser.com/router-complaint.htm and provide more information.

You can get more information about the problems on Netgear support site at »forum1.netgear.com/support/viewt···tart=390]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12918191 Tue, 15 Mar 2005 17:54:00 EDT