[ALL] Digital Phone Update in Cox HSI http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r12993461 en Fri, 04 Dec 2009 10:10:48 EDT Fri, 04 Dec 2009 10:10:48 EDT Re: [ALL] Digital Phone Update http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13031681 NoVA_CoxUser :
said by cob_ See Profile:

... what I'm asking is why Vonage cannot provide E911 service if KMC has the trunks ...
To expand on BillRoland See Profile's informative post above: »[ALL] Digital Phone Update ...

... I suspect the answer is that they probably could, but it involves a lot more than just routing the voice call.

The basic requirement is to make the voice call and the location data all come together simultaneously at the E911 dispatcher's workstation -- and be fully integrated into the PSAP's data system.

Making this happen with high reliably -- and fast enough -- takes quite a bit of engineering, hardware/software, testing, and of course $$$. Making it happen by a company who doesn't have a physical presence in the local area is likely even harder (and more expensive).

See page 11 of following online document (PowerPoint presentation) for a high-level E911 architecture.

Most 3rd party VoIP providers have made a business decision to not provide this level of service and pass-on the cost savings to their customers as less-expensive service. MSOs -- being regulated telcos -- don't have a choice, they have to provide the service. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13031681 Tue, 29 Mar 2005 05:44:06 EDT Re: [ALL] Digital Phone Update http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13030738 cob_ : NoVA_CoxUser, what I'm asking is why Vonage cannot provide E911 service if KMC has the trunks.

digiblur, I've been following that conversation and it seems kind of sparse, hard to tell without all of us test calling 911.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13030738 Tue, 29 Mar 2005 01:15:02 EDT Re: [ALL] Digital Phone Update http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13028163 digiblur : Vonage is not currently one of the providers that will "transmit" your data to the PSAP. There are only a few that will at this time.... there have been several 911 discussions in the VoIP forum.

I use the free solution.... BellSouth provides a 911-only line in my home free of charge.
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FWD#64466 - »[Sipura] Make your Sipura Speak! - Step by Step]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13028163 Mon, 28 Mar 2005 19:33:46 EDT Re: [ALL] Digital Phone Update http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13025549 NoVA_CoxUser :
said by cob_ See Profile:

... here in Tulsa, Vonage uses the CLEC KMC Telecom, and one would think they've established E-911 trunks with the ILECs in the area ...
On first blush, one might tend to agree with you, but Vonage's 911 Info Page still reads:

Your Call Will Go To A General Access Line at the Public Safety Answering Point (PSAP). This is different from the 911 Emergency Response Center where traditional 911 calls go.
This means your call goes to a different phone number than traditional 911 calls. Also, you will need to state the nature of your emergency promptly and clearly, including your location and telephone number, as Public Safety Answering Point (PSAP) personnel will NOT have this information on hand.


It's also much more technically involved to provide integrated E911 location data to the PSAP than it is to simply forward a voice call to a particular phone #.

So ... does Vonage maybe have different 911 setups in areas where they have established local rate center phone numbers (and potential local access to E911 trunks) so as to be able to provide FULL E911 functionality ...

... or are all Vonage's 911 calls simply routed to the appropriate "PSAP general #" for their geographic area -- w/o the amplifying location data -- as the web site states ... ?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13025549 Mon, 28 Mar 2005 14:20:01 EDT Re: [ALL] Digital Phone Update http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13025329 cob_ : Well, I can tell you that here in Tulsa, Vonage uses the CLEC KMC Telecom, and one would think they've established E-911 trunks with the ILECs in the area.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13025329 Mon, 28 Mar 2005 13:52:15 EDT Re: [ALL] Digital Phone Update http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13019623 BillRoland :
said by schweb See Profile:

The problem is that if it's a VoIP service, they're way over priced. $49.99 for VoIP is ridiculous, especially with the lack of VoIP features that other companies have.

For example I used AT&T CallVantage for $29.99/month I get all that and more features. And AT&T is on the high side for VoIP companies. I guess I just don't understand why cable operated VoIP needs to be so expensive.
Because its not a "best effort" service like CallVantage is. Again, NoVA_CoxUser See Profile has summed it up very nicely; VoIP is only a transport medium from your house to your cable headend. That that point, the VoIP equation is over. Cable operators can control this portion of their network with ease, and with QoS built into the PacketCable standard, the VoIP traffic is always going to arrive. Also please remember that this service is billed as a replacement to your POTS line, and is subject to some regulation (they have to have backup generators in the cable plant, the 5 nines of POTS reliability, E911, all those goodies). The reason Cox can offer it cheaper than a telco is because, if I recall, they are not subject to some of the taxes and overhead that telco's are.
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"Don't steal. The government hates competition."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13019623 Sun, 27 Mar 2005 18:01:07 EDT Re: [ALL] Digital Phone Update http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13019587 BillRoland :
said by NoVA_CoxUser See Profile:

Bill:

Please re-read my post ...

I know Cox is a CLEC and that they DO provide full E911 functionality ...

... my point was that I think Vonage and other VoIP providers could "technically" provide this same E911 service if they wanted to (at least in areas where they have local phone #s) ... albeit with an increased operating cost ...

... couldn't they?
The answer to this is fairly easy. For E911 to work, you have to have access to the dedicated E911 trunks. The problem with many VoIP carriers is that they are a third party using a third party, that is to say, Vonage buys numbers from Focal, which buys them from the ILEC. The VoIP carriers themselves are not CLECs, they are renting services from CLECs. Therefore Vonage and everyone else are at the mercy of their CLEC. To date, it seems only Level3 is providing VoIP carriers the ability to get to the E911 trunks (that's who Packet8, who offers E911 in some but not all markets, uses). Cox's Digital Telephone product is limited to your home; they always know where you are. Not so with the VoIP carriers, you could pack up your ATA and move across America. That is probably the single biggest challenge facing their E911 plans: how do you know where the ATA is? Cox never has to contend with this. So I guess the long answer to your question is that indeed E911 with the "other" VoIP carriers is possible, indeed it is being done by at least Packet8 and probably others that I'm not familiar with. The main problems they have are that they have to get it thru a third party to begin with, and secondly, they have no earthly idea where you might be at any given moment. Cox doesn't have to deal with any of these problems.
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"Don't steal. The government hates competition."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13019587 Sun, 27 Mar 2005 17:55:49 EDT Re: [ALL] Digital Phone Update http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13019568 schweb : The problem is that if it's a VoIP service, they're way over priced. $49.99 for VoIP is ridiculous, especially with the lack of VoIP features that other companies have.

For example I used AT&T CallVantage for $29.99/month I get all that and more features. And AT&T is on the high side for VoIP companies. I guess I just don't understand why cable operated VoIP needs to be so expensive.
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bryan | website]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13019568 Sun, 27 Mar 2005 17:53:14 EDT Re: [ALL] Digital Phone Update http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13018806 NoVA_CoxUser : Don't have any info on future roll-out plans (Cox is always pretty tight-lipped about future plans) but here is the rate info for my area: »www.cox.com/Fairfax/Telephone/rates.asp

Don't know how those rates compare with other Cox areas, but compared to Verizon in this area it's VERY cost/feature competitive.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13018806 Sun, 27 Mar 2005 15:43:41 EDT Re: [ALL] Digital Phone Update http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13018667 schweb : I guess my question is, where is the information on Cox VoIP? How much does it cost, what are its features?

I already use VoIP and would be interested in how Cox compares. If it's like the other cable players VoIP products, it'll be way overpriced and under featured compared to the other VoIP players. I hope that's not the case...
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bryan | website]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13018667 Sun, 27 Mar 2005 15:17:49 EDT Re: [ALL] Digital Phone Update http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13017870 NoVA_CoxUser : Bill:

Please re-read my post ...

I know Cox is a CLEC and that they DO provide full E911 functionality ...

... my point was that I think Vonage and other VoIP providers could "technically" provide this same E911 service if they wanted to (at least in areas where they have local phone #s) ... albeit with an increased operating cost ...

... couldn't they?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13017870 Sun, 27 Mar 2005 13:25:51 EDT Re: [ALL] Digital Phone Update http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13017790 BillRoland : Think of Cox as just a CLEC. When you call 911 from your VoIP based Digital Telephone, it will be routed to your PSAP's 911 trunks, complete with location information. No different than using any other CLEC.
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"Don't steal. The government hates competition."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13017790 Sun, 27 Mar 2005 13:13:34 EDT Re: [ALL] Digital Phone Update http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13016303 NoVA_CoxUser :
said by cob_ See Profile:

... I would be interested in reading the differences between, say, Vonage, and Cox's VoIP service.
The biggest difference is that Cox's VoIP is "VoIP" only while it's on Cox's network ... which Cox controls. Once the VoIP call gets to the point where it has to be routed off Cox's own IP network, it's converted back to "regular" POTS and routed via the PSTN. What this means is that Cox has the ability to give their own VoIP packets priority on their network to ensure voice quality. Effectively, their VoIP network can be thought of as a 2nd "private IP" network running in parallel to their "public" HSI network.

Vonage (and other 3rd party VoIP) user's packets on the other hand, travel across the relatively loosely controlled public internet and "take a number" along with all the other packets streaming across the internet ... sometimes with mixed results.

Cox's three public whitepapers on VoIP give a good explanation in more detail. »www.cox.com/about/NewsRoom/reports.asp

I don't know enough about the 911 architecture to answer your question as to why Vonage's 911 is different from that provided by the Telco's and Cox; although I suspect that while they (Vonage) technically could provide the same 911 service, they aren't required to do so and it would undoubtedly add to their operating costs.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13016303 Sun, 27 Mar 2005 09:00:01 EDT Re: [ALL] Digital Phone Update http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13007997 cob_ : The tech that came to my house Wed. said that my CMTS was in the process of being upgraded right now actually. 31st/Garnett]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13007997 Sat, 26 Mar 2005 02:10:28 EDT Re: [ALL] Digital Phone Update http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13007534 illek : For the record, Cox has NOT rolled out their phone service in Tulsa yet. They were making promises that it would be on by the first of this year but now they are not promising anything anymore. Wonder what the problem was?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13007534 Sat, 26 Mar 2005 00:29:37 EDT Re: [ALL] Digital Phone Update http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13004553 Smokey : 911 is covered by Cox's VoIP service. The VoIP is just a transport for Cox Digital Telephone, so it is held to the same slandered as a CSV system.
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Plvres crapvlas qvam gladivs]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13004553 Fri, 25 Mar 2005 17:14:17 EDT Re: [ALL] Digital Phone Update http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13004243 cob_ : I would be interested in reading the differences between, say, Vonage, and Cox's VoIP service. I don't understand why Vonage doesn't support E-911 or alarm systems. Is Cox E-911 and alarm system support limited to CSV areas, or is it working over traditional VoIP too?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13004243 Fri, 25 Mar 2005 16:30:45 EDT Re: [ALL] Digital Phone Update http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13001285 Fubar : Yes it can do alarm systems, It can do anything any conventional POTS line can]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13001285 Fri, 25 Mar 2005 10:06:00 EDT Re: [ALL] Digital Phone Update http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12999479 digiblur :
said by Smokey See Profile:

Would the VoIP solution be able of handling alarm systems? What about providing a line with no dial tone?
I can't see them offering a "dry pair".
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FWD#64466 - »[Sipura] Make your Sipura Speak! - Step by Step]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12999479 Fri, 25 Mar 2005 01:15:43 EDT Re: [ALL] Digital Phone Update http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12999275 Smokey : Would the VoIP solution be able of handling alarm systems? What about providing a line with no dial tone?
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Plvres crapvlas qvam gladivs]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12999275 Fri, 25 Mar 2005 00:41:00 EDT Re: [ALL] Digital Phone Update http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12999256 Fubar :
said by Smokey See Profile:

Wouldn't CBS just want to run fiber to such a business anyway?
It would have to be a major phone circuit to run fiber to it.

CBS can do 48 phone lines to one business with 2 NIU's over coax, A hell of a lot cheaper than running fiber...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12999256 Fri, 25 Mar 2005 00:37:51 EDT Re: [ALL] Digital Phone Update http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12998864 Smokey : Wouldn't CBS just want to run fiber to such a business anyway?
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Plvres crapvlas qvam gladivs]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12998864 Thu, 24 Mar 2005 23:46:02 EDT Re: [ALL] Digital Phone Update http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12995428 Fubar : The only problem I see is CSV is going to have to stay around until a Voip solution can be made for businesses that have more than 4 phone lines.... I don;t see multiple Voip modems as a practical solution especialy with a 24 port NIU available to use...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12995428 Thu, 24 Mar 2005 17:12:16 EDT Re: [ALL] Digital Phone Update http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12995360 NoVA_CoxUser :
said by Fubar See Profile:

Also markets are going to be switched to Voip before the Ciruit switches reach capacity. It is all a cost issue.
Good points.

And the next logical step somewhere down the road would be to retire the existing CSV system and replace it with VoIP ... once the cost of VoIP gets low enough vs the cost of continued operation the CSV system.

In the end, it's ALL about the Benjamins.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12995360 Thu, 24 Mar 2005 17:04:36 EDT Re: [ALL] Digital Phone Update http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12995283 Fubar :
said by NoVA_CoxUser See Profile:

The "2nd" modem is for "Cox Use Only" and carries only your voice traffic. It doesn't even have an ethernet or USB port for the user to plug-in to. It only connects to the analog phone lines in your house ... and of course the coax.
Just want to say there are Voip modems that Cox is going to use that have the ability to also be a HSI modem. Cox isn't going to implement the Ethernet port to begin with but has that option.

»www.arrisi.com/products_solution···dems.asp

Also markets are going to be switched to Voip before the Ciruit switches reach capacity. It is a ll a cost issue.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12995283 Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:56:33 EDT Re: [ALL] Digital Phone Update http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12995077 NoVA_CoxUser :
said by Rob850 See Profile:

... If were going to be VOIP will this count against our transfer limit that's set on our acct? ...
You're confusing this with 3rd party VoIP systems (e.g. Vonage, Packet 8, etc.) which do run thru your HSI cable modem.

In Cox's VoIP digital phone setup, it's "VoIP" only to Cox and invisible to the customer. It's completely separate from your HSI account.

Think of the Cox-provided VoIP modem as effectively two cable modems in the same box:

One modem is for your HSI account; you connect your computer or router to it's port and it works just like any other cable modem.

The "2nd" modem is for "Cox Use Only" and carries only your voice traffic. It doesn't even have an ethernet or USB port for the user to plug-in to. It only connects to the analog phone lines in your house ... and of course the coax.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12995077 Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:37:53 EDT Re: [ALL] Digital Phone Update http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12995024 Fubar :
said by Rob850 See Profile:



If were going to be VOIP will this count against our transfer limit that's set on our accounts?
Nope, Unlike Vonage etc, it is a seperate product not relying on your HSI connection. So, You don't have to have HSI to get Voip.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12995024 Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:32:48 EDT Re: [ALL] Digital Phone Update http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12994772 Rob850 : I wonder if Fort Walton/Pensacola will ever see telephone. This would help since I can drop your basic cable product (your digital cable does nothing for me + it's overpriced)

If were going to be VOIP will this count against our transfer limit that's set on our accounts?

Rob
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»www.robfwb.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12994772 Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:07:54 EDT [ALL] Digital Phone Update http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12993461 NoVA_CoxUser : Up 'til now, Cox's Digital Phone has "existed" in one of two forms depending on the market in which you were located.

Circuit Switched Voice (CSV) in:
•Orange County, CA
•San Diego, CA
•Phoenix, AZ
•Tucson, AZ
•Omaha, NE
•Central CT
•Rhode Island
•Hampton Roads, VA
•Northern VA
•New Orleans, LA
•OK City, OK
•Wichita, KS

VoIP in:
•Roanoke, VA
•Tulsa, OK
•Baton Rouge, LA
•West TX
•Lafayette / SW LA
•All other new roll-out markets

Now, Cox is in the process of hybridizing their headend CSV hardware to enable it to simultaneously support VoIP in previously CSV-only areas.

The plan is that once an area's existing CSV capacity is reached, additional customers will receive VoIP service.

In other words, even if you have a CSV interface (NIU) on the side of your house, your new next-door neighbor might well receive a VoIP cable modem if he signs up for Cox's phone service.

For more info, see Whitepaper: Circuit Switch to VoIP Evolution Plan]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12993461 Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:24:33 EDT