A One Cable Company Town > Show me where :urban: America has it different

Show me where :urban: America has it different

I agree. This was selected because the pro-muni people (author included) think it proves somehow that a government run cable/telco would be so much better. And isn't it common sense to begin with? If you roll out billion a dollar network in an urban area and have two-million subscribers, versus a billion dollar network in a rural area with twenty-thousand subscribers, where do you get a better return on investment? Where can you afford to pass down a lower cost for the same or better services? Not to mention these same costs and investment apply to a muni just as they do a private company. But with a muni the local government can use taxes, fees, etc., to cover the shortcomings, and ultimately the people who didn't want the service(s) to begin with also pay.

reply to RadioDoc
There is in fact a section of Chicago Suburbs that have WOW(Previously Americast) in competition with the incumbant.
There is also a section of Ohio(Columbus and Clevelend(If I recall) that has direct competition with the incumbant cable company.

Also, there is a small corner of IN that has both WOW and Comcast too.

reply to RadioDoc

reply to chesney09
Yeah I'm quite aware of the WOW nee Americast overbuild areas. Around here except for ~120K folks in Naperville they don't amount to much, and even that is a drop in the bucket. What about the other six million who are stuck with Comcast? Re-read my first sentence above. And just for your information, Naperville is hardly "rural".

I would venture a guess that the 2% referenced in the GAO study is about right. No sane private or public company would overbuild an incumbent cable operator at this point in the game, and a muni overbuild isn't any less crazy.

reply to JTRockville

reply to RadioDoc
Doc, Why are you always so negative... I don't htink anyone was attacking your post or your point.
I, personally, was commenting on the difference in pricing when there IS competition from personal experience, as well as my thoughts as to why there isn't more.

As I stated above, the major challenge with over building is not being able to get enough penetration to get a solid base of revenue coming in to sustain business. I don't think WOW has been profitable but in a select FEW areas around Detroit. What consumer wouldn't switch back when Comcast would do "Win-Backs" offering 3-6 months of service for free or greatly reduced rates.

Add in the politics and it is even more difficult. WOW is very much liked around here and their customer service is bragged about by it's customers. There was a rescent Detroit Free Press Article on them. It asked if they plan to expand and they pretty much flat out say that their only plans of expansion are to gain more customers in te markets they are currently in.
Before WOW bought Americast, they had been working to move in Redford, MI, Dearborn MI, and some slightly more distant plans for Detroit itself. WOW nixed it due to the politics and costs vs penetration in the current markets.

reply to RadioDoc

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Rural America has the same choice the rest of the country has

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reply to RadioDoc
Isn't that what governments are for? To provide services where the market has failed?

Or to at least regulate services where the market cannot bear more than one provider (in which case, it can hardly be considered a "market")?

reply to RadioDoc
Had to give you a thumbs up for saving me the time responding to it. I doubt the "Data Ho" cares though because all the other taxpayers around her will help her pay for her broadband and her community's poor investment. And that may actually in the short-term keep her broadband costs lower.

So, when will they start? I could use a price break!

reply to chesney09
In short, overbuilding never made any sense in the first place. That's what I posted. Back in the 90's there were lots of fools willing to invest their money in speculative endeavors like this. Reality kicked them in the eyes, and now companies have to actually make money. I'm glad you like WOW. I have nothing against them and wish them well. But, basically, they are doomed. Deregulation will make sure of that. Nobody will buy their overbuild systems because they do not make economic sense now, so they don't even have that escape route.

What's there to be positive about?

reply to JTRockville

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the market did not fail

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It is not up the government to provide services such as these which are not life-safety or sustenance related.

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reply to RadioDoc
I only like WOW because they do keep prices in check. I think overbuilding could be a good thing and profitable if there is something that sets them dratically different from the competition... Be it the product or Cust. Service.
But I agree with you whole heartedly that the current situations of overbuilding did crap out. I mentioned, i think there were only 2 or 3 cities around Detroit that actually became profitable because Time Warner was SO BAD and over priced.

The same overly applies with Dial tone.. SBC got to pick up the copper that had been wired half a century ago... MUCH of that copper is still in place. YES! they have done a lot with technology advances, but much of it is still over the same old copper. There isn't a company in the world that would try and overbuild that. Perfect example... Look at Global Crossing, MCI, Level 3, QWEST, Etc etc etc

There has to be something that defines the difference. You can get nearly every service from a variety of companies.. All within a small range of prices, same crappy customer service, so what makes one better than the other... Those are the companies that will survive.

reply to RadioDoc
The broadband "market" is not competitive. The US continues to fall behind in the global marketplace, while the providers with monopoly power get fat.

For any market to thrive, there needs to be either competition or regulation. Having neither isn't beneficial to anyone except the monopoly owner. A cable provider, a telco provider, and a muni. Sounds like a good rule of threes - in otherwords, a competitive market. But the US doesn't look like that.

Incidentally, the g'ment regulates/investigates many industries that are not essential to sustaining life, like software for example. Did anyone ever lose their life because of Microsoft's practices.

reply to Minister
He has a point. There are many government organizations that look at broadband as becoming a necessity as the internet does open the ability to speed up learning, provide faster comunication, etc etc. Many local governments look at broadband access/coverage as incentive for companies to open businesses there. Would you build a building for your company that didn't have access to High Speed Internet? Probably not. There are many studies that look at education of kids in areas that schools/homes have internet access vs without. There is a big difference.
Sad but true... But both sides have valid points.. It's a catch 22.

Communications, while perhaps not life-sustaining, are a crucial part of any civilized society. Networks are how the modern world communicates.

US should not be trailing the rest of the world. We should be leading.

reply to Minister
Man, talk about irrelevant. We're discussing federal regulation and you're talking about...what the hell are you talking about?

If your aunt lives in a broadband backwater, who cares? If I move to the middle of the mountains and can't get cable, or even electricity, is that the government's fault?

Nobody is entitled to broadband or even cable TV in any particular spot. If you don't like the spot you're in, move. I'm really tired of the whining. If you can't get what you want, band together with your neighbors and start a co-op.

As for muni whatever, hey if you want to pay for it fine. Just keep your hands out of my wallet. My nose will get nowhere near the aroma of your burning desire.

JTRockville , I don't completely disagree with you. I think it is beneficial to have these services available. I don't think it's beneficial to have these services available no matter what the cost to provide them.

There is a reason we all used to be clustered in cities.