 JTRockvilleData HoPremium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD | reply to pnh102
Re: Put Up or Shut Up Maybe Michael Dell will back some revenue bonds to finance muni deployments. Remember, most muni deployments aren't backed by tax revenue. |
|
 pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | said by JTRockville:Maybe Michael Dell will back some revenue bonds to finance muni deployments. Remember, most muni deployments aren't backed by tax revenue. I don't think the government should get into the broadband business at all, but a more practical approach might be for interested citizens to form local non-profit organizations which could focus entirely on providing broadband in under-served areas. This approach allows for all money used to be focused 100% on broadband deployment, keeps the government's meddling out of the picture and assures that all money used stays in the community served.
--
Hey Fast Eddie... you're next! |
|
JTRockvilleData HoPremium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD | That's pretty much how muni systems are deployed now. If you consider that "the government" is made up of "the people", or representatives of "the people", then that's exactly how muni systems are deployed now. |
|
 Combat ChuckToo Many CannibalsPremium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA | said by JTRockville:If you consider that "the government" is made up of "the people", or representatives of "the people", then that's exactly how muni systems are deployed now. There's a subtle difference tho. In Pittsburgh "The People" voted down government funding of 2 new stadiums and a convention center in a referendum. A couple months later "The People" in the form of a government representative and a rider on a bill decided to do just the opposite.
Keeping government reps. as far away as possible from broadband non-profits seems like a really good idea to me.
--
Beagles really should come in convienent 10 packs. |
|
 Titus PulloI came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26
kudos:1
 ·Embarq Now Centu..
| reply to pnh102
I think we can do one better: there should be three Internets.
One for educational purposes only, paid for by the sweat equity profit of pre-teens stringing fiber for nothing but water and bread for group number two.
Group two is for individuals earning over 50K, which is anything the BB company wants to charge because the CEOs have to keep earning 400 times what the average American worker earns (check the link for yourself).
And lastly, for everyone else, a system consisting of paper cups and twine running at about 1kbps, because since we're poor (and therefore worthless sloth-like vermin) don't deserve the vast information available via HSI that might enhance our ability to join either of the other groups. 
--
"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppose." -- Frederick Douglass |
|
JTRockvilleData HoPremium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD | reply to Combat Chuck
If your representatives refuse to represent you, vote 'em out. If private ventures don't serve your needs, you have no recourse. |
|
| reply to Titus Pullo
How about you stop the moronic comments and think, instead?
We're a 2 man ISP, and if some public entity decides to deploy broadband to cover where I do, theyre' going to use 10X the amount I will, take my money from me, and then use that money to put me out of business.
Then they'll find they operate at a loss, can't afford to continue operations, shut it down, liquidate assets to some corporation at a huge loss, and then we're back where we started... No broadband, and I just lost everything I put into it.
But then again, isn't that the dream of socialists everywhere? Everyone dependent upon handouts and nobody making a profit? |
|
JTRockvilleData HoPremium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD Reviews:
 ·Verizon FiOS
| As it is now, you have no guarantee a private venture won't compete with you. I hope your business model isn't based on having no competition.
Competitors will distinguish themselves on many levels aside from price:
• reliability
• speed
• customer service
• "extras" (email, webspace, newsgroups, premium content)
Since you are operating with a profit, certainly you can excel in one or more of those areas. |
|
|
|
Titus PulloI came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Embarq Now Centu..
| reply to neofast
said by neofast:How about you stop the moronic comments and think, instead? ((snipped)) But then again, isn't that the dream of socialists everywhere? Everyone dependent upon handouts and nobody making a profit? My, my. How did I know the socialist tag would come flying? BTW, I'm not a socialist; neither am I a dupe for cronyism.
And I don't think you need to worry about what I *think* with guys on your side telling us that "mom and pop" companies are a thing of the past.
I also don't *think* your 2 man business has anything to worry about from a municipal BB coming around to put you out of business.
If I were you, I'd *think* a lot more about a commercial enterprise (larger than 2 man, I assure you) burying you without a second thought and laughing like Enron and 'Aunt Millie' while they do it. If a Muni-bb DID threaten your livelihood, I *think* you'd at least get a word in edgewise and sympathy from your small-business brethren; good luck crying for salvation when a commercial outfit gobbles up your revenue customer by customer.
PS: I trust they'll use stronger words than "moron" while they're staking you out for slaughter. *Think* about that.
--
"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppose." -- Frederick Douglass |
|
| reply to neofast
We're a 2 man ISP, and if some public entity decides to deploy broadband to cover where I do, theyre' going to use 10X the amount I will, take my money from me, and then use that money to put me out of business.
I would like an example of any 2 man Broadband provider that is not just reselling a large corporations network. |
|
pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | reply to JTRockville
said by JTRockville:If private ventures don't serve your needs, you have no recourse. Sure you do. You can invest in a competing venture or start your own. At the very least if you don't like the service provided by a private company you don't have to buy their services.
--
Hey Fast Eddie... you're next! |
|
Combat ChuckToo Many CannibalsPremium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
1 edit | reply to JTRockville
If private ventures don't serve the customers needs they run out of money, and if truly private it has little effect on me if they rot and die. In the case of governments, screwups are ultimately borne by the citizenry. Promises of private backing in theory should protect the citizenry, but they don't because it's all too easy for local politicians to change the terms in order to offer up political cookies to the highest bidder, and if the backer goes bankrupt then all bets are off.
--
Beagles really should come in convienent 10 packs. |
|
Combat ChuckToo Many CannibalsPremium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA | reply to Titus Pullo
Whether you want to admit it or not, your ideas are socialist. A look at your post history is all that's needed. You constantly say the government should help this or that person or suggest intervention(punishment) when someone turns an excellent profit.
Then anytime anyone uses strong words to refer to your ideas you go the "smart people don't use such words" route and ignore any other content. You did it to me the other day because I referred to your "stupid idea" (stupid because you had to ignore certain facts in order for it to make sense)
--
Beagles really should come in convienent 10 packs. |
|
| reply to pnh102
ah yes. everyone has access to millions of dollars of investment capital to fund such ventures. riiiiiiiiiiight.
hey straw man, have you ever seen "it's a wonderful life?" george bailey doesn't go crawling to Mr. Potter because he wants to...Potter just has enough money to dispense thousands at a clip. who in the world is going to be the Mr. Potter here? non-existent venture capitalists?
if YOU don't like your local gov't helping you out, so be it. there just isn't any good reason you can give to stop others from believing locals have the $$ and the answers to this problem. as you say, if you don't lke the service, don't use it! |
|
Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA | reply to neofast
Actually perfect competition, the ideal of capitalism, is based on ZERO economic profit for all competitors. Government is there to fill the inefficiencies in the free markets. I DON'T think there should be muni broadband in areas where private enterprise is already providing service though. |
|
| reply to Combat Chuck
quote:
You constantly say the government should help this or that person
So, you live on an island? Gov't doesn't help you at all? Are you your own police force, fire department, garbage collection...national defense? EPA? FTC? You've never used a student loan? Attended a public university? Driven on an interstate highway? Eaten food that's been inspected?
Somehow I doubt all of the above. Those who would question government's role in these matters hasn't really pondered what government does (and quite well) on a daily basis. I bet you're part of that "the government sucks" crowd that has it's collective head up its ASS in regards to facets of life we as Americans take for granted. |
|
Titus PulloI came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Embarq Now Centu..
| reply to Combat Chuck
said by Combat Chuck:Whether you want to admit it or not, your ideas are socialist. A look at your post history is all that's needed. You constantly say the government should help this or that person or suggest intervention(punishment) when someone turns an excellent profit. Then anytime anyone uses strong words to refer to your ideas you go the "smart people don't use such words" route and ignore any other content. You did it to me the other day because I referred to your "stupid idea" (stupid because you had to ignore certain facts in order for it to make sense) Feel free to use my post history to bolster your points; I've nothing to hide (I wouldn't post here if I did!).
I wish you'd back up SOMETHING you say with a fact or linked citation rather than with empty rhetoric. Feel free to do so on these points for practice. I'll be glad to reply to your accusations (what you put in quotes):
** You quote me with "smart people don't use such words"
Do I write that somewhere? Please provide a link to a post where I do.
** You write (as a quote) that, "[I] constantly say the government should help this or that person or suggest intervention(punishment) when someone turns an excellent profit."
Please provide examples of where I do just what you state.
The post / exchange you allude to is here:
Where YOU call my ideas stupid!
You see, I'll debate freely -- anytime, anywhere -- and if I'm incorrect with facts or wrong-headed in viewpoint I'll be the first to admit it. You haven't written anything to refute what I've said. Your idea of proving a point is to simply say someone else is wrong. I'm sorry, but it takes a bit more work than that 
Now, do I think that Muni broadband should simply be implemented because someone thinks it's the best course? No, I do not. However, I also think that rational discussion on the subject is warranted because the BB industry in this country is getting very rich while people pay higher prices and the country as a whole falls behind other countries in per capita BB usage. There are various reasons for the fall in rank, I admit, but I don't think my other charges are that far off the mark. Look at the current situation with oil/gas. Crude futures went skyward and pump prices went up. We were told prices were due to supply & demand problems. Yet ALL the major oil companies just posted HUGE profits for the 1st quarter. You may think this is fine, but there are many that do not. Moreover, calling people socialists or stupid doesn't further intelligent debate.
** Note: on the linked thread above, I provided a reply with 33 citations on wages and worker rights. I notice you never replied to that. I also notice that when facts or links to proof of a position are included in a reply to your views, you either don't address that portion of the post or you attack the messenger. If you do that often enough, people will put you on their ignore list and you'll be arguing with yourself. I'd think on that for a bit. It's just a discussion, no one HAS to win or lose, and various points of view are healthy. If you don't agree with what you think are "socialist [ideas]," then point out exactly why that particular idea is socialist and why it's not good in your opinion. Ad hominem or shallow 'what you did or said' arguing is a waste of time.
--
"The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppose." -- Frederick Douglass |
|
| reply to Titus Pullo
said by Titus Pullo:said by neofast:How about you stop the moronic comments and think, instead? ((snipped)) But then again, isn't that the dream of socialists everywhere? Everyone dependent upon handouts and nobody making a profit? My, my. How did I know the socialist tag would come flying? BTW, I'm not a socialist; neither am I a dupe for cronyism. And I don't think you need to worry about what I *think* with guys on your side telling us that "mom and pop" companies are a thing of the past. I also don't *think* your 2 man business has anything to worry about from a municipal BB coming around to put you out of business. If I were you, I'd *think* a lot more about a commercial enterprise (larger than 2 man, I assure you) burying you without a second thought and laughing like Enron and 'Aunt Millie' while they do it. If a Muni-bb DID threaten your livelihood, I *think* you'd at least get a word in edgewise and sympathy from your small-business brethren; good luck crying for salvation when a commercial outfit gobbles up your revenue customer by customer. PS: I trust they'll use stronger words than "moron" while they're staking you out for slaughter. *Think* about that. Well, first off, I'd agree that YOU DON'T THINK, but beyond that, you haven't said much that's intelligent.
First, we're a new wireless operation, with a statistically extrapolated 5000 possible customers... and over 1000 square miles of area coverage. Statistically, given today's "take" rates of around 10%, we expect our short term customer base to be around 500 broadband customers, and long term around 800. And my business model is NOT built on there being no competition. I have DSL, Cable, and 2 other wireless providers - both well funded, and I'm the small guy. The "David" against the "Goliaths", and I have no doubt we'll win... PRECISELY because we're small.
Our prices beat DSL, Cable, and the wireless providers, and our service beats them all, as well.
But that's because they lease thousands of square feet of the most expensive office space around, we use a home office. They hire ALL productive work done, and all the management does is collect paychecks. We do it all.
You see, grasshopper, size is not everything... efficiency is. Sizing your operation to the market is wisdom... You're spouting tripe. In your world, it's not real until it has massive overhead and fails in spectacularly large bankruptices that make the regional or national news.
We'll just keep smiling and loving life... because there's simply no way they can keep up with us... |
|
| reply to Orwell1984
said by Orwell1984:
We're a 2 man ISP, and if some public entity decides to deploy broadband to cover where I do, theyre' going to use 10X the amount I will, take my money from me, and then use that money to put me out of business.
I would like an example of any 2 man Broadband provider that is not just reselling a large corporations network.
Fixed wireless.
Enough said. No need for a telco, millions of dollars, or spectacular bankruptcies in the news... |
|
| reply to Ahrenl
The problem with your idea, is that munis freeze out private enterprise, to the detriment of all. |
|
