Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? in Security

Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? in Security http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r13692329 en Wed, 02 Dec 2009 14:48:05 EDT Wed, 02 Dec 2009 14:48:05 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13739219 antiserious :
... B, looks like you were right to be suspicious when a programmer comments about losing his programmers ...

... guess I'm not surprised that someone would try to take advantage of another's work, just sorry I fell for it ... oh well, live and learn ...

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... "Nobody's perfect - well, there was this one guy, but we killed Him" ... Christopher Moore, 'Lamb' ...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13739219 Fri, 24 Jun 2005 19:02:24 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13739079 anon : But is the new program still any good? I mean this new ripoff of DVD Decrypter, is it any good? So what if it's a rip off of a program that is now gone. DVD Decrypter is not coming back so if this new ripoff version works, what's the difference? We still end up with a free program that will copy dvd's...right?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13739079 Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:46:17 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13738352 B :
Thanks, antiserious. Looks like the debunking starts around »DVD Decrypter - Gone Forever

At least someone quotes (what purports to be) the real author there.

-- B
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In a realm outside causality and function]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13738352 Fri, 24 Jun 2005 16:58:19 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13735471 antiserious :
... sorry it took so long to get back to this ... I posted a link earlier in this thread to a site that 'appeared' to be for DVD Decrypter, reborn ... it's a fraud, as Koolman2 pointed out ... my apologies for any confusion ...

... reference this thread for more information, post 60 or so - »DVD Decrypter - Gone Forever ...

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... "Nobody's perfect - well, there was this one guy, but we killed Him" ... Christopher Moore, 'Lamb' ...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13735471 Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:30:59 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13724586 Frosties : erased]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13724586 Wed, 22 Jun 2005 23:39:21 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13722454 Red Dragon : about auto that software that installs to uphold the copy protection; is that now illegal under the new anti spyware bill that states to some degree that the software must present its self to be either installed or not installed with full permission from the user.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13722454 Wed, 22 Jun 2005 18:54:12 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13722104 JamPony9 : I expect this thread is about to get locked because it has gone way beyond the security question. Not that that's bad, it is interesting and informative.

Anyway, on topic, if you get and install the Tweak UI utility, it gives more control over autorun. It is part of Microsoft's "Powertoys" package. XP version is here:

»www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/down···oys.mspx

There's one for each version of Windows.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13722104 Wed, 22 Jun 2005 18:05:12 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13722040 diver196 : For help on this topic:

»club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=46159]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13722040 Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:56:54 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13721544 MorpheusUK :

said by SpannerITWks

:

Making ONE copy of something for backup purposes Only IS legal.

Not in the UK as I stated aleady. Unfortunately as most Americans talk about it being legal to make a copy for backup purposes most Brits assume this is also the case, it is not. In the UK the only legal way to get a copy is to buy another copy in the format you want it.
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Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they are not after you]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13721544 Wed, 22 Jun 2005 16:53:34 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13720922 garys_2k : ALL methods of sound storage (analog or digital, vinyl or as a bitstream) and production/amplification (vibrating a stylus, signaling a D/A converter, using transistors or tubes) introduce distortion. Some types of distortion sound better to more people than others, so they decide that system is "better." Some flavors of IM distortion, some harmonic distortion, some "comfort noise" can add character to sound and is perceived as pleasant. But all of it is only a fair representation of the original sound.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13720922 Wed, 22 Jun 2005 15:33:18 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13720810 TheSpector : This is true. When music becomes too refined it sounds fake. As soon as sound becomes perfect we will need a device to add the hiss and crackle back in.
And I also know what you mean by the "warmth" of the music on analog. Do you suppose that can be mimiced by an audio spectrum analyzer. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13720810 Wed, 22 Jun 2005 15:20:36 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13720750 koolman2 : Don't worry, eventually they'll come out with 16-terabit/192THz sampling, and the human ear will not be able to tell the difference. Too bad that one second's worth of that sample rate would be 249.25YB(YottaByte)!
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A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops. On my desk, I have a work station.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13720750 Wed, 22 Jun 2005 15:13:56 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13720540 John2g :

said by SpannerITWks

:

Even though in theory we cant hear all that's there, it's been suggested many times that those Extra frequencies do actually play some part in the Total Experience of Analog, which are missing from CD's.

I think that is because we can hear the harmonics.
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Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13720540 Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:47:53 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13720488 SpannerITWks : Hi astirusty,

As a lot of people don't handle their CD's carefully, they usually have multiple scatches on them, most will be invisible to the eye. So the error correction is working overtime more than some may think. Haha yeah you're right about shaking a turntable lol.

Actually the AD/DA process is severely manipulated in many ways in order to make it work. Yeah sure we've got higher Bit Rates + Sample Rates than before, and i do understand the Nyquist theorem.

But just one of the differences between A + D is that for eg CD's have to roll off the high frequencys in order to meet the Nyquist theorem, otherwise they would be severely distorted. Records/Cartridges are not limited by the same degree.

One of the reasons given why Records/Analog sound better, is becuase of the extended upper bandwith. Even though in theory we cant hear all that's there, it's been suggested many times that those Extra frequencies do actually play some part in the Total Experience of Analog, which are missing from CD's.

The vast majority of commercial music is subject to Compression in various forms thru the recording chain. So instead of for eg a 130dB Dynamic Range, we end up with between on average 50dB - 70dB in the finished product !

I havn't heard of CD's being recorded with the Inverse RIAA Curve, but in the early days maybe some were in error ! All preamps for playing records have a Phono stage with the RIAA Correction Curve to restore the bass and EQ the treble to make the response perfectly flat again.

I agree a really good HiFi is something worth having, if you love music, and sure it's all down to personal preferences. It's just that in my expereience most people havn't heard a really good system, never mind a Top Class one. So they get used to average sound, and becuase there's no occassional pops n hiss, which has nothing to do with the quality of the Actual music, they think it's as good as it gets !

It never ceases to amaze me just how dissapointed people are when you play their Data Reduced mp3's and WMA's etc on even modest HiFi gear !

And also when they get the chance to hear carefully looked after records played thru even a modest but quality system, it's an eye opener for most of them.

Keep on grooving,literally lol,

Spanner
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I Only Know What I Know But I'm Learning all The Time - Stay Safe - Spanner intheWorks /SpannerITWks]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13720488 Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:43:15 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13719978 TheWickerMan :

said by John2g

:

The Sony-BMG SunnComm system uses a copy manager on a PC which creates a handover to the Windows Media DRM software that works with Windows media player, which then prevents further copying. This used to be easily bypassed, but now Sony-BMG has gone a step further and instead of trying to install the copy manager surreptitiously it tells the consumer it is doing it and if the consumer says no, it ejects the CD.

That sounds easy enough: If the disc gets ejected, hold the shift key in and try again.

said by John2g

:

The Macrovision CDS 300 which EMI has chosen has been available for about a year from Macrovision and it enables new CD’s to be burned, which themselves cannot be copied. What Macrovision has done is take its old, rigid copy protection called CDS 100, which was unpopular because the CDs didn’t work with all players and never allowed any copying, and make those the output of the new CDs when copied. The copies also will not play on a PC, only the original will play on a PC.

This sounds like somewhat of a pain, but like everything else, it will be cracked, possibly before it even hits the shelves.

Funny how they whine about how much money they're losing to piracy, and yet they have all kinds of money to piss away on useless and ineffective copy protection.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13719978 Wed, 22 Jun 2005 13:50:59 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13718997 John2g : From The Register.

By Faultline
Published Tuesday 21st June 2005 16:44 GMT
Both Sony-BMG and EMI have made statements this week that most of their CDs for their major markets will have copy protection placed on them.

Sony BMG is a customer for SunnComm while EMI is using the Macrovision CDS 300 technology.

But Sony-BMG also used the opportunity to seed anti-Apple sentiment among the US press, knocking the company for continuing to keep Fairplay a closed environment and appearing to favor Microsoft software with its copy protection approach.

The Sony-BMG SunnComm system uses a copy manager on a PC which creates a handover to the Windows Media DRM software that works with Windows media player, which then prevents further copying. This used to be easily bypassed, but now Sony-BMG has gone a step further and instead of trying to install the copy manager surreptitiously it tells the consumer it is doing it and if the consumer says no, it ejects the CD.

The Macrovision CDS 300 which EMI has chosen has been available for about a year from Macrovision and it enables new CD’s to be burned, which themselves cannot be copied. What Macrovision has done is take its old, rigid copy protection called CDS 100, which was unpopular because the CDs didn’t work with all players and never allowed any copying, and make those the output of the new CDs when copied. The copies also will not play on a PC, only the original will play on a PC.

When running on a PC, Macrovision will also add a piece of software that will run as a copy manager in virtually the same way as the Sony-BMG SunnComm technology.

There is going to be howl of protest from the anti-DRM community and already there are write ups of how to get around the system and import tracks onto iPods via a CD copy, one track at a time. The two pieces of software that co-operate with Windows Media DRM don’t work at all with Apple’s Fairplay and so Apple owners may find they can’t play the CDs at all or if they can, they are not protected, in the same way raw MP3 files are not protected on iTunes.

Our guess is that iTunes customers will simply shift their entire music acquisition program from CDs to online and save a lot of fuss, slashing CD sales in the process.
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Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13718997 Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:37:46 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13718836 Martinus :

said by dave

:

Tube radios were inevitably described as "warm".

They actually got warm enough after a while being on. Epecially if you happened to touch a bulb.
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From the GSV "Ethics Gradient"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13718836 Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:13:22 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13718605 dave :

said by astirusty

:

Others complained about the "harshness" because digital (CDs) format can store a wider decibel range than records, about 30 more dBs.

I heard once that people who were used to listening to classical music on the radio (back in the early days of radio) and who then heard live music would complain that the strings were "harsh" for the same sort of reason - they'd got used to inaccurate reproductions. Tube radios were inevitably described as "warm".]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13718605 Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:42:45 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13718309 astirusty :

said by SpannerITWks

:

Remember Analog is a continuous waveform, but Digital is Not, it's discontinuous and has to be severely manipulated in order to make it work, with lots of error correction going on a lot of the time etc.

The error correction only kicks in when the media has been damaged or the player itself is having problems. Such as a person jogging with a CD player which can cause tracking problems. Of course jogging with a phonograph would cause even more problems.;)
You may call the analog to digital & back to analog process "severely manipulated", I would not. The sampling rates are now high enough and the DACs good enough that the final analog output is more than accurate enough for the human ear. See current sample rates and Nyquist theorem. A reason CDs originally got a bad reputation was do to improper mastering. Using the "RIAA Curve" on CDs that was meant for LPs. LP's are mastered with reduced bass levels and increased treble levels, to compensate for vinyl records limitations.

said by SpannerITWks

:

If someone played you the same album, one a quality LP system and one from CD, side by side with the levels matched and started in synch, and kept switching from one to the other, you might be surprised which one you actually preferred.

This comes down to preference. The purists usually complain about the "harshness" of digital sound and/or the "warmth" of vinyl. Part of that is caused by the fact records (LPs) wear out in their ability to reproduce high frequencies. Repeatedly dragging a needle over the groves tends to "smooth out" the groves. ;) Others complained about the "harshness" because digital (CDs) format can store a wider decibel range than records, about 30 more dBs.

said by SpannerITWks

:

Of course if you don't have a good HiFi system and only have one of these midi setups or listen thru your PC, then you can't expect to hear what you've been missing.

Wouldn't matter if it was a record or a CD, either way the music is going to sound better on a good HiFi over a cheap set of PC speakers with built-in amps.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13718309 Wed, 22 Jun 2005 09:58:34 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13716926 jsouth : Boo hoo If I can't play a cd that I cannot return (You do know that most places will only let you return for the same item) or I cannot make a copy of a cd that I PAID for, why is it wrong with finding out how to make it work. It doesn't mean I'm going to post it on a P2P network. Quit being so sanctimonious. :uhh:
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BTK is Caught!!!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13716926 Wed, 22 Jun 2005 02:11:22 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13716760 koolman2 :

said by dadkins

:

Didn't I say that earlier? :huh:

I believe so, but in less than one tenth of the words. ;)
--
A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops. On my desk, I have a work station.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13716760 Wed, 22 Jun 2005 01:22:52 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13716691 Loker : I dunno if this has been posted because 7 pages of posts is too much at 1 AM but just in case it hasn't try reading this »www.engadget.com/entry/1234000413047159/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13716691 Wed, 22 Jun 2005 01:10:21 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13716439 jap : How come this entire thread reads like a news thread?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13716439 Wed, 22 Jun 2005 00:23:32 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13716405 dadkins : Didn't I say that earlier? :huh:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13716405 Wed, 22 Jun 2005 00:17:18 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13716389 jap : Thank you! How soon people forget.
that being said, i'll keep the high-end digital for recorded materials, of course. Too many handling advantages.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13716389 Wed, 22 Jun 2005 00:15:30 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13716370 SpannerITWks : Copyright belongs to the owner/s of the copyrighted material, of and in whatever form that may take, that's the law !

If the Owner/s of the copyrighted material give Written Proveable permission for a person/s to copy that material, then that's legal.

If an artist/s says a person/s can copy their work/s but does NOT 100% own the rights to the material due a copyright contract with others, and ALL the interested parties in the copyright/s have Not also given their Written Proveable permission, then the artist/s are Totally incorrect and the information given is False and NOT legal.

Just because a person/s has made some Music or whatever does NOT mean they own the rights to it if they have signed a contract with others for ownership, as Most do and have, not all, but most.

Just for eg, the Beatles do NOT own all their music. EMI their previous joint publishing company with theirs, sold the rights to someone else MJ. He now gets the royalties not them. They had the chance to buy them back before the deal went thru, but declined.

Only if someone 100% owns the material can they allow others to copy it, if they Choose to do so.

If others Choose Not to do so then that is also their perogative.

The physical form or otherwise of copyrighted material, eg a legally bought CD/DVD/LP/Cassette/Book etc is owned by the purchaser and or gift recipient, but the ALL subject material contained within it is NOT. In other words you own the plastic and paper etc, but NOT the Music/Pictures/Words etc. If it wasn't obtained legally then just by definition that isn't legal anyway.

Whether people like it or not doesn't make Any difference whatsoever, if it's the law, it's the law, and it IS !

Making ONE copy of something for backup purposes Only IS legal.

So i hope things are a Lot clearer now for those that didn't realise.

Spanner
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I Only Know What I Know But I'm Learning all The Time - Stay Safe - Spanner intheWorks /SpannerITWks]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13716370 Wed, 22 Jun 2005 00:11:13 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13716210 djtim21 : Corrected Again :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13716210 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 23:50:26 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13716169 B :
»www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&···G=Search

»www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&···G=Search

»www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&···G=Search

You puzzle me, because I thought I had read some insightful posts from you since you joined last month. You're just way off base here. Have you read the board before?

A warez site? Because somebody wants to talk about CSS or the latest misbegotten audio CD scheme (or just backing up their own tape for their own use)? You've gotta be kidding me. Ah well, talk about off topic. :) Sorry.

-- B
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In a realm outside causality and function]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13716169 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 23:45:05 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13716098 dantz : The last time I checked this was not a warez site. Discussions about techniques for breaking copy-protection are not appropriate for a reputable site like dslreports. I am merely expressing my opinion, and of course it's up to the mods to do as they see fit. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13716098 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 23:34:52 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13715781 B :

said by dantz

:

This is the security forum, not the hackers forum. We should not be discussing specific techniques that can be used to evade CD copy protection.

It would be more fruitful to discuss ways to change the copyright laws or the licensing agreements so that reasonable copying for personal use would be permitted, rather than encouraging people to become outlaws.

...

In that case you should complain directly to the software manufacturer. I suggest that you threaten to publicize the problems and to boycott their products until they fix it.

That's ridiculous!

1. The mods, not you, will decide what "we should not be discussing" in the forum.

2. Specific techniques to break copy protection are every bit as valuable to discuss as specific techniques to spread malware or infect systems. We discuss these all the time here. What the hell else do you think the Security Forum's for? Please Google on "white hats" and "security through obscurity".

3. Discussing "ways to change the copyright laws or the licensing agreements so that reasonable copying for personal use would be permitted" would seem, to me, to be some of the LAST things that would be appropriate in the Security Forum. They have almost nothing to do with Security, technology, or even personal privacy. They're legalistic and political discussions. Again, though, it's not for you or me to decide.

4. If you wish to discuss those "more fruitful" things, then certainly feel free to start a thread to discuss them.

There are lots of arguments to be made against rampant copyright infringement. But criminalizing people who want to back up their own CDs or DVDs (not to mention forbidding discussion of same) is just silly.

-- B

Edit: djtim21, you're still spelling it wrong. It's "SpongeBob". :)

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In a realm outside causality and function]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13715781 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 22:53:49 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13714077 anon : She's referring to a hair brained copy protection scheme someone tried to introduce a year or two back that relied on Windows "autoplay" feature to install a piece of malware on your computer. That was supposed to prevent you from copying the CD on that computer, but it basically fell apart if you disabled autoplay by holding down shift while loading the CD, or if you used another operating system like Linux. Not to mention that if it relied on someone being stupid enough to click "yes" to installing the "CD-ROM Special features" because installing it "stealthily" would be prosecutable.

Even the pop news guys got into the act of saying how incredibly stupid it was.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13714077 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 19:26:20 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13713605 MorpheusUK : Just one point, if you live in the UK there is no such thing as fair use. In theory at least if you want to copy your own CD or rip tracks for your own use then you legally need to get permission from the copyright holder. For obvious reasons this is completely unenforcable and if it were to be enforced would kill of the British portable audio market.

Recently I actually ended up with AlphaAudio files installed on one of my PCs after forgetting to disable autorun after a reinstall. AFAICT it installs an ASPI layer without any prompting which I obviously deleted but a lot depends on your drive using one of the drives in the machine I was able to rip the tracks in order to use on my Pocket PC, using the other drive I couldn't.

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Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they are not after you]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13713605 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 18:30:44 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13713225 raybrett : Actually you begin to lose the quality with the first conversion to digital.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13713225 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:48:19 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13713207 koolman2 : But it's worth the savings for every disc. :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13713207 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:46:30 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13713135 djtim21 : Ya, I've got a Sony 46" wide screen HD, with a Sony home theater with progressive scan. I believe that I will see a difference, but I doubt she will.
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"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” - Edmund Burke]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13713135 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:34:51 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13713115 koolman2 : On an SDTV you can't tell the difference, although on a 480p or a computer screen you can.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13713115 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:32:08 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13713095 djtim21 :

said by koolman2

said by djtim21

:

I'll never purchase a CD or DVD where there is a "Program" that controls how I play it, and what I can do with it. ;)

... or that you can break (i.e. CSS). ;)

Oh ya - DVD Decrypter, a Dual sided DVD and Nero is my best friend. I haven't tried DVD shrink yet, but I'm sure it will save a bit of $$ cause Dual sided media is expensive.
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"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” - Edmund Burke]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13713095 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:29:38 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13713069 koolman2 :

said by djtim21

:

I'll never purchase a CD or DVD where there is a "Program" that controls how I play it, and what I can do with it. ;)

... or that you can break (i.e. CSS). ;)
--
A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops. On my desk, I have a work station.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13713069 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:26:44 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13713030 djtim21 : I agree 110%, and this is why:

I have a 4 year old niece (her birthday is this Saturday). She loves Shrek, she loves SpongeBob :D. Each DVD is around 10 to 20 bucks. She scratches the hell out of them.

I make a copy of each disk and let her play the copies - I am breaking the DMCA - but fair use comes into play.

I am NEVER going to pay for a new copy that I legally purchased in the first place. She can go through at least 1 DVD a month. I would consider this "Rental" - I'm not renting this - I own it.

To make this clear also - I am not distributing the disks to friends, or sharing them via P2P or any other means. I am also not downloading it, all media is purchased somewhere (Best Buy, Used disks at Blockbuster).

This is my legally paid for copy of the movies. I archive them, and when she destroys the copies, I still have the main disk, and she is happy when she can play them over and over.

Am I a bad guy - In the eyes of the DMCA Yes - I should be fined and put into jail.

Like everyone else is stating in here, as long as it's a "Backup" or "Fair Use" and not shared then it's going to continue.

I'll never purchase a CD or DVD where there is a "Program" that controls how I play it, and what I can do with it. ;)

Edit - Spelled "Sponge Bob" wrong LOL :p

Second Edit - Deleted the space for "SpongeBob" :p:p:p
--
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” - Edmund Burke]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13713030 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:22:24 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13712920 anon : I fully agree with those comments Dadkins. We should have every right to make a backup copy for our own uses, and like you said, IT'S GONNA HAPPEN. :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13712920 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:11:05 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13712681 dadkins : One thing alot of people in this thread are blurring, copying AS A BACKUP to keep the original I/we purchased in pristine shape is not infringing on enyone's right to sell their work.
If you use the original to the point that it is so scratched it will not play, and you wish to listen to it further... go buy a new one? :huh: I'll pass on that scheme(scam).

I can and will continue to backup any disc as I see fit. This is in no way depriving anyone of their due monies.

Sorry guys, it will happen. ;) ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13712681 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 16:43:56 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13712008 dave :

said by performancemattersmo:

People are so confused about the meaning of 'copyright.' Copyrighting is intended to prevent others from making money off of my intellectual property.

You are so confused about the meaning of 'copyright'. Copyrighting is intended to preserve your right to make money off your intellectual property -- that is, it reserves to you the right to make copies.

(You are of course under no obligation to either make copies, or make money from those copies).

You can easily look this up. »www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#wci

When no one is charging for it, why are they violating a copyright?

If you chose to sell copies of your work for $99.95 (plus shipping and handling), and some guy starts giving away identical copies for free, then you could no longer profit from your own work.

The violation lies not in whether the other guy is or is not making money, it lies in the prevention of your right to do what you want with your own work.

(You of course are under no obligation to make copies, make money from those copies, or to prevent others from making copies. The law merely gives you the control over your work, if you want it.)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13712008 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:22:35 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13711886 anon : I'm a musician. I don't consider canned pieces of data "my work." Art is inherently different from other forms of "work." I think I can say most artists, genuine artists, I know don't make art to make a living, they make it to propose a philosophical expression or, less theoretically, because they enjoy working with the materials they use to make their art, whatever medium it be in. I think that musicians, in particular, should not become rich off of the digital replications of a series of sounds recorded in a contained and isolated studio bit by bit until the appearance of "music" exists. I like that musicians, should be forced to make their money off of performance, like musicians did for the past dozen centuries before the second half of the one that recently concluded. I love the fact that digital media is making my, and other true artists', works available in their recorded formats. All this distribution does is make audiences that much more receptive to what I am putting forward when I come to their city to perform. Then those audience members see the real think, they get to hear music, organic and real, made by human beings, in that moment. Notes that will never be heard exactly the same again.

Recordings are essentially promotional material that somehow duped people into paying for the equivalent of a copy of an oven that doesn't work.

People are so confused about the meaning of 'copyright.' Copyrighting is intended to prevent others from making money off of my intellectual property. When no one is charging for it, why are they violating a copyright? No one is stealing my work and pretending its theirs. Rather, they're simply enjoying something I, or any musician, did some time earlier and probably getting excited about the prospect of witnessing the real thing in a live venue.

The reason the big, rich majors and "artists" (read: talentless media tools) are so scared is because they know free file sharing forces them to actually give people a performance theyre will to pay for. They'll have to live on their performance skills, which are pretty much all studio smoke and mirrors. Small-scale recording and performance can only be the victor when people start demanding quality over tricks.

If you can't survive file-trading as an artist, you weren't an artist to begin with, you were a salesman. People not coming to your movies because they can just download it? Then change the nature of the movie experience into something communal and the audience will want to come and pay you for it. Imagine if you could meet and ask questions of the director of a film at his movie premiere. I'd pay for that rather than just download the movie.

File sharing is bad for big business, and that is good for art and the intellect of the general populace.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13711886 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:09:10 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13711701 froggy58 : The question at hand that "Started" this thread was:

"Can't somebody play the CD in the stereo, record it to cassette, then rip the songs from the cassette to the computer. Then maybe use software to clean up the sound then upload?"

Regardless of what forum this thread this is, the above was the question.

I simply said why bother when you can do it without issue, using existing programs out there, and yes an example was given.

Because I lost a few CD's related to scratches on the "Label" side, I create MP3's to keep from scratching my CD's due to regular use.

Personal use is simply just that, personal! Who's going to bother you when using it for such purpose? No one. Realizing this, why should I bother with a complaint campaign about copyright laws?

IMHO: The only ones that need to be burned are the ones that make cd copies and send them out to friends or trade MP3's on-line.

K]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13711701 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:50:31 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13711495 dantz :

said by dadkins

:

What about Copy Protection schemes/drivers that hose your computer? *cough* StarForce *cough* No warnings, just a thrashed system.

In that case you should complain directly to the software manufacturer. I suggest that you threaten to publicize the problems and to boycott their products until they fix it. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13711495 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:28:38 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13711328 dadkins :

said by dantz

What about Copy Protection schemes/drivers that hose your computer? *cough* StarForce *cough* No warnings, just a thrashed system.

Borderline Malware. A special removal tool is required to get that s*** off your computer. Oh yeah, that's ok, huh?

Having a CD(audio or game) that isn't playable because of some BS protection is just wrong.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13711328 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:10:43 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13711282 dantz : This is the security forum, not the hackers forum. We should not be discussing specific techniques that can be used to evade CD copy protection.

It would be more fruitful to discuss ways to change the copyright laws or the licensing agreements so that reasonable copying for personal use would be permitted, rather than encouraging people to become outlaws. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13711282 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:06:32 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13709117 froggy58 : For music CD's I use CDex. It ignores the copy protection(cp) employed and rips the music to mp3's like nothing was there. Even the newest release (June 14th) of music with cp employed it was done in a matter of minutes.

I like Cdex because it is not an "Installed" program, and has no crapware on it. All you do is DL it, unzip it into a directory of your choice, set an icon on the desktop and set up the preferences and start ripping.

»cdexos.sourceforge.net/

If you use the Lame Engine for ripping, you might want to find the newest version of Lame's DLL and unzip the file(usually has many) and copy the "lame_enc.dll" into the Cdex directory.

I currently use "version 1.32, engine 3.96 mmx" because I've not checked to see if there is another newer "gold" version.

For all the folks crying about this copying, sorry, I only create MP3's to keep me from having to swap cd's in and out when I want to listen to music.....nuff said.

K]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13709117 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 09:06:58 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13708956 Maggs : My brother is an independent musician, and he doesn't mind copies of his CDs being made. Its more publicity for him. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13708956 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 08:34:49 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13708809 innoman : Actually, all one would need to do is download the track on iTunes and use jHymn to remove the protection.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13708809 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 07:59:48 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13708537 t3freak : Wow! This thread started with an innocent question and quickly evolved into a churn of criminal minds...:o]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13708537 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 06:20:00 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13708370 fluoro : Recently found this site while troubleshooting audio problems. Seems like audio software, firmware and hardware related issues can now be joined by 'buyer beware' considerations. There is a page showing copy protection logos and warnings, assembled by a Dutch 'contact', and a page with a list of known 'bad' CDs. The road to the personal backup is getting rockier.

»ukcdr.org/issues/cd/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13708370 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 04:13:06 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13708277 ctceo : If they wanted to, it is allegedly illegal to play music so loud that others can hear it.

Even though it's old, it's still valid.

---LEGAL---
Copyright 2001 John Gilmore
This document is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or (at your option) any later version.

This document is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License for more details.

You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License along with this document; if not, write to the Free Software Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA.

-----

What's Wrong With Copy Protection
John Gilmore, 16 February 2001

»www.toad.com/gnu/whatswrong.html
Translations: English, Portuguese, Deutsch, Español, Italiano, Frances, Russian, Hebrew
What's wrong?
Ron Rivest asked me, "I think it would be illuminating to hear your views on the differences between the Intel/IBM content-protection proposals and existing practices for content protection in the TV scrambling domain. The devil's advocate position against your position would be: if the customer is willing to buy extra, or special, hardware to allow him to view protected content, what is wrong with that?"
First, I call it copy protection rather than content protection, because "content" is such a meaningless word. What the technology actually does is to deter copying. Such technologies have a long history in computing, starting with the first microcomputers, minicomputers, and workstations. Except in very small niches, all such systems ultimately failed. Many failed because of active opposition from their buyers, who purchased alternative products that did not restrict copying.

There is nothing wrong with allowing people to optionally choose to buy copy-protection products that they like. What is wrong is when:

Competing products are driven off the market
What is wrong is when people who would like products that simply record bits, or audio, or video, without any copy protection, can't find any, because they have been driven off the market. By restrictive laws like the Audio Home Recording Act, which killed the DAT market. By "anti-circumvention" laws like the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, which EFF is now litigating. By Federal agency actions, like the FCC deciding a month ago that it will be illegal to offer citizens the capability to record HDTV programs, even if the citizens have the legal right to. By private agreements among major companies, such as SDMI and CPRM (that later end up being "submitted" as fait accompli to accredited standards committees, requiring an effort by the affected public to derail them). By private agreements behind the laws and standards, such as the unwritten agreement that DAT and MiniDisc recorders will treat analog inputs as if they contained copyrighted materials which the user has no rights in. (My recording of my brother's wedding is uncopyable, because my MiniDisc decks act as if I and my brother don't own the copyright on it.)
Pioneer New Media Technologies, who builds the recently announced recordable DVD drive for Apple, says "The major consumer applications for recordable DVD will be home movie editing and storage and digital photo storage". They carefully don't say "time-shifting TV programs, or recording streaming Internet videos", because the manufacturers and the distribution companies are in cahoots to make sure that that capability never reaches the market. Even though it's 100% legal to do so, under the Supreme Court's Betamax decision. Streambox built software that let people record RealVideo streams on their hard disks; they were sued by Real under the DMCA, and took it off the market. According to Nomura Securities, DVD Recorder sales will exceed VCR sales in 2004 or 2005, and also exceed DVD Player-only sales by 2005. (»www.kipinet.com/tdb/1000/10tdb04.htm) So by 2010 or so, few consumers will have access to a recorder that will let them save a copy of a TV program, or time-shift one, or let the kids watch it in the back of the car. Is anyone commenting on that social paradigm shift? Do we think it's good or bad? Do we get any say about it at all?

Instead, consumers will have to pay movie/TV companies over and over for the privilege of time-shifting or space-shifting. Even if they have purchased the movie, and it's stored at home on their own equipment, and they have high bandwidth access to it from wherever they are. This concept is called "pay per use". It can't compete with "You have the right to record a copy of what you have the right to see". These companies can't eliminate that right legally, because it would violate too many of the fundamentals of our society, so they are restricting the technology so you can't exercise that right. In the process they are violating the fundamentals on which a stable and just society is based. But as long as society survives until after they're dead, they don't seem to care about its long-term stability.

Companies don't disclose copy-protection restrictions
What is wrong is when companies who make copy-protecting products don't disclose the restrictions to the consumers. Like Apple's recent happy-happy web pages on their new DVD-writing drive, announced this month (»www.apple.com/idvd/). It's full of glowing info about how you can write DVDs based on your own DV movie recordings, etc. What it quietly neglects to say is that you can't use it to copy or time-shift or record any audio or video copyrighted by major companies. Even if you have the legal right to do so, the technology will prevent you. They don't say that you can't use it to mix and match video tracks from various artists, the way your CD burner will. It doesn't say that you can't copy-protect your own disks that it burns; that's a right the big manufacturers have reserved to themselves. They're not selling you a DVD-Authoring drive, which is for "professional use only". They're selling you a DVD-General drive, which cannot record the key-blocks needed to copy-protect your own recordings, nor can a DVD-General disc be used as a master to press your own DVDs in quantity. These distinctions are not even glossed over; they are simply ignored, not mentioned, invisible until after you buy the product.
It isn't just Apple who is misleading the consumer; it's epidemic. Sony portable mini-disc recorders only come with digital input jacks, never digital outputs. Sound checks in -- but only checks out in low-quality analog formats. Intel touts the wonders of their TCPA (Trusted Computing Platform Architecture). You have to read between the lines to discover that it exists solely to spy on how you use your PC, so that any random third party across the Internet can decide whether to "trust" you -- the owner. TCPA isn't about reporting to you whether you can trust your own PC (e.g. whether it has a virus), it doesn't include that function. It exists to report to record companies about whether you have installed any software that lets you make copies of MP3s, or any free software to circumvent whatever feeble copy-protection system the record company uses. Intel is pushing HDCP (High Definition Content Protection) which is high speed hardware encryption that runs only on the cable between the computer and its CRT or LCD monitor. The only signal being encrypted is the one that the user is sitting there watching, so why is it encrypted? So that the user can't record what they can view! If the cable is tampered with, the video chip degrades the signal to "analog VCR quality".

Intel is also pushing SDMI and CPRM (Content Protection for Recordable Media) which would turn your own storage media (disk drives, flash ram, zip disks, etc) into co-conspirators with movie and record companies, to deny you (the owner of the computer and the media) the ability to store things on those media and get them back later. Instead some of the stored items would only come back with restrictions wired into the extraction software -- restrictions that are not under the control of the equipment owner, or of the law, but are matters of contract between the movie/record companies and the equipment/software makers. Such as, "you can't record copyrighted music on unencrypted media". If you try to record a song off the FM radio onto a CPRM audio recorder, it will refuse to record or play it, because it's watermarked but not encrypted. Even when recording your own brand-new original audio, the default settings for analog recordings are that they can never be copied, nor ever copied in higher fidelity than CD's, and that only one copy can be made even if copying is ever authorized (if the other restrictions are somehow bypassed). Intel and IBM don't tell you these things; you have to get to Page 11 of Exhibit B-1, "CPPM Compliance Rules for DVD-Audio" on page 45 of the 70-page "Interim CPRM/CPPM Adopters Agreement", available only after you fill out intrusive personal questions after following the link from »www.dvdcca.org/4centity/. All Intel tells you that CPPM will "give consumers access to more music" »www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/···2300.htm). Lying to your customers to mislead them into buying your products is wrong.

Scientific research is unpublishable
What is wrong is when scientific researchers are unable to study the field or to publish their findings. Professor Ed Felten of Princeton studied the SDMI "watermarking" systems in some detail, as part of a public study deliberately permitted by the secretive SDMI committee, so they could determine whether the public could crack their chosen schemes. (SDMI would not allow EFF to join its deliberations, saying that we had no legitimate interest in the proceedings because we weren't a music company or a manufacturer. There are no consumer or civil rights representatives in the SDMI consortium.) Prof. Felten was in the New York Times last week, saying the SDMI people and Princeton's lawyers are now telling him that he can't release his promised details on what was wrong with these watermarking systems, because of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. It's OK to tell the SDMI companies how easy it is to break their scheme, but it isn't OK to tell the public or other scientific researchers.

Competition is prevented
What is wrong is when competitors are unable to build competing devices or software, vying for the favor of the consumers in the free market. Instead those devices are banned or threatened, and that software is censored and driven underground. Such as the open-source DeCSS and LiViD DVD player programs. Such as DVD players worldwide that can play American "Region 1" DVDs. EFF spent more than a million dollars last year in defending the publisher of a security magazine, and a Norwegian teenager, from movie industry attempts to have them censored and jailed, respectively, for publishing and writing competing software that lets DVDs be played or copied but does not follow the restrictive contracts that the movie studios imposed on most players. The movie studios spent $4 million on prosecuting the New York case alone. Few or no manufacturers are willing to put ordinary digital audio recorders on the market -- you see lots of MP3 players but where are the stereo MP3 recorders? They've been chilled into nonexistence by the threat of lawsuits. The ones that claim to record, record only "voice quality monaural".

Abuse of "copyright protection" rewards monopolies
What is wrong is when the controls that are enacted to protect the rights reserved under copyright are used for other purposes. Not to protect the existing rights, but to create new rights at the whim of the copyright holder. Movie companies insisted on a "region coding" system for DVDs, because they would make less money if DVD movies were actually tradeable worldwide under existing free-trade laws. (They couldn't charge high theatre ticket prices if the same movie was simultaneously available on DVDs, and they couldn't combine the ad campaigns of the theatres and the DVDs if they waited a long time between releasing it to theatres and releasing it to DVDs.) This system results in the situation where a consumer can buy a DVD player legally, buy a DVD legally, and put the two together, and the movie won't play. The user has every legal right to view the movie, but it won't play, because if it did, movie companies might make less money. Similar controls exist in DVDs to prevent people from fast-forwarding past the ads or those nonsensical "FBI Warnings".
Microsoft built some deliberately incompatible protocols into Windows 2000 so that competing Unix machines could not be used as DNS servers in some circumstances. Microsoft released a specification but only under an encrypted file format that claimed to require that readers agree not to use the information to compete with them. When someone decrypted the trivial encryption without agreeing to the terms, Microsoft threatened to use the DMCA to sue Slashdot, the popular free-software news web site, who published the results. (Luckily for us, Slashdot has a backbone and said "go ahead, we'll defend that suit" and Microsoft chickened out.) Copyright doesn't grant the right to prevent competition, or to restrict global trade -- but somehow the legislation that was enacted to protect copyrights is being used to do just those things.

Social policy is created without public input
What is wrong is when social policy is created in smoke-filled back rooms, between movie/record company executives and computer company executives, not by open public discussion, by legislatures, and by courts. The CPRM specification, for example, allows a distributor of a bag of bits (who has access to software with this capability) to decide that future recipients will not be permitted to make copies of that bag of bits. Or that two copies are permitted, but not three. This policy is not legally enforceable, it was not created by law. The law says something different. But the policy will be enforced by equipment built by all the major manufacturers, because they will be sued by the movie/record companies if they dare to build interoperating equipment that lets consumers make three copies, or copies limited only by their legal rights. Is it unexpected that such back-room policies end up favoring the parties who were in the room, at the expense of consumers and the public?

Copyright's balance of benefits is lost
What is wrong is when the balance between the rights of creators and the rights of freedom of speech and the press is lost. Any increase in the rights of creators is a decrease in the public's right of free speech and publication. Whenever copyrights are extended, the public domain shrinks. The right of criticism, the right to dispute someone else's rendition of the truth, is damaged. The First Amendment gives an almost absolute right to publish; the Copyright clause gives a limited right to prevent publication by others. Any expansion of the right to prevent publication diminishes the right to publish. For example, few works created after 1910 have entered the public domain, if their owners did not abandon their copyright, because as the years went by, the term of copyright kept getting extended. But the copy-rights created by technological restrictions are not even designed to end. There is nothing in the SDMI or CPRM spec that says, "After 2100 you will be permitted to copy the movies from 1910".

Beneficiaries are a tiny fraction of society
What is wrong is that a tiny tail of "copyright protection" is wagging the big dog of communications among humans. As Andy Odlyzko pointed out, »www.research.att.com/~amo/doc/eworld.html, see "Content is not king" and "The history of communications and its implications for the Internet"), "The annual movie theater ticket sales in the U.S. are well under $10 billion. The telephone industry collects that much money every two weeks!" Distorting the law and the technology of human communication and computing, in order to protect the interests of copyright holders, makes the world poorer overall. Even if it didn't violate fundamental policies for the long-term stability of societies, it would be the wrong economic decision.

Society can truly eliminate scarcity, but not this way!
What is wrong is that we have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from scarcity. We now have the means to duplicate any kind of information that can be compactly represented in digital media. We can replicate it worldwide, to billions of people, for very low costs, affordable by individuals. We are working hard on technologies that will permit other sorts of resources to be duplicated this easily, including arbitrary physical objects ("nanotechnology"; see »www.foresight.org). The progress of science, technology, and free markets have produced an end to many kinds of scarcity. A hundred years ago, more than 99% of Americans were still using outhouses, and one out of every ten children died in infancy. Now even the poorest Americans have cars, television, telephones, heat, clean water, sanitary sewers -- things that the richest millionaires of 1900 could not buy. These technologies promise an end to physical want in the near future.
We should be rejoicing in mutually creating a heaven on earth! Instead, those crabbed souls who make their living from perpetuating scarcity are sneaking around, convincing co-conspirators to chain our cheap duplication technology so that it won't make copies -- at least not of the kind of goods they want to sell us. This is the worst sort of economic protectionism -- beggaring your own society for the benefit of an inefficient local industry. The record and movie distribution companies are careful not to point this out to us, but that is what is happening.

If by 2030 we have invented a matter duplicator that's as cheap as copying a CD today, will we outlaw it and drive it underground? So that farmers can make a living keeping food expensive, so that furniture makers can make a living preventing people from having beds and chairs that would cost a dollar to duplicate, so that builders won't be reduced to poverty because a comfortable house can be duplicated for a few hundred dollars? Yes, such developments would cause economic dislocations for sure. But should we drive them underground and keep the world impoverished to save these peoples' jobs? And would they really stay underground, or would the natural advantages of the technology cause the "underground" to rapidly overtake the rest of society?

I think we should embrace the era of plenty and work out how to mutually live in it. I think we should work on understanding how people can make a living by creating new things and providing services, rather than by restricting the duplication of existing things. That's what I've personally spent ten years doing, founding a successful free software support company. That company, Cygnus Solutions, annually invests more than $10 million into writing software, giving it away freely, and letting anyone modify or duplicate it. It funds that by collecting more than $25 million from customers, who benefit from having that software exist and be reliable and widespread. The company is now part of Red Hat, Inc -- which also makes its living by empowering its customers without restricting the duplication of its work. It's no coincidence that the open source, free software, and Linux communities are among the first to become alarmed at copy protection. They are actively making their livings or hobbies out of eliminating scarcity and increasing freedom in the operating system and application software markets. They see the real improvement in the world that results -- and the ugly reactions of the monopolistic and oligopolistic forces that such efforts obsolete.

Converting the whole world to operate without scarcity is a huge task. Such a large economic shift would take decades to spread through the entire world economy, making billions of new winners and new losers. We will be extremely lucky if by 2030 we are prepared to end scarcity without massive social turmoil, including riots, civil unrest, and world war. If we are to find a peaceful path to an era of plenty, we should be starting HERE AND NOW, transforming the industries we have already eliminated scarcity in -- text, audio, and video. Companies that can't adjust should disappear and be replaced by those who can. As these whole industries learn how to exist and thrive without creating artificial scarcity, they will provide models and expertise for other industries, which will need to change when their own inefficient production is replaced by efficient duplication ten or fifteen years from now. Relying on copy-protection now would send us in exactly the wrong direction! Copy protection pretends that the law and some fancy footwork with industrial cartels can maintain our current economic structures, in the face of a hurricane of positive technological change that is picking them up and sending them whirling like so many autumn leaves.

Summary
This may be a longer discussion than you wanted, Ron, but as you can see, I think there are a lot of things wrong with how copy protection techologies are being foisted on an unsuspecting public. I'd like to hear from you a similar discussion. Being devil's advocate for a moment, why should self-interested companies be permitted to shift the balance of fundamental liberties, risking free expression, free markets, scientific progress, consumer rights, societal stability, and the end of physical and informational want? Because somebody might be able to steal a song? That seems a rather flimsy excuse. I await your response.

John Gilmore
Electronic Frontier Foundation ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13708277 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 03:23:41 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13708061 hypercooljak : Take your DVD player that has a digital coax or optical output, get a sound card with a digital coax or optical input, connect the two together, play the protected cd in the DVD player while capturing it on your computer. It stays digital, no analog there.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13708061 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 02:20:00 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13707935 Cyaneyes : Write to the record company. Call. Fax. Email. Complain. Raise hell about how your fair use rights are being trampled. 9 times out of 10, they will send you a non copy-protected disc in exchange to quiet you.

The purpose of copy protection on CDs is NOT to prevent any copies at all from spreading via P2P. That's an unattainable goal, since anything is crackable one way or another. The purpose of copy protection is to discourage casual copying and burning among friends and acquaintances. 99% of people won't know how to defeat the newer schemes (which are much more difficult to defeat than holding down the shift key), and 99% of people won't care enough to go about learning how to defeat them.

Meanwhile no one can put the songs on their DAPs. As I said, raise hell to the record company and INSIST they replace your disc.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13707935 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 01:46:17 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13707894 anon : SIMA makes cool stuff.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13707894 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 01:35:39 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13707617 CPM : I agree Cheez Whiz ROCKS.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13707617 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 00:33:33 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13707529 hobie1027 : From the reuters article:
The copy-protection technology is also far from ironclad. Apple Macintosh users currently face no restrictions at all. What's more, if users go to a Web site to complain about the lack of iPod compatibility, Sony BMG will send them an email with a "back door" measure on how to work around the copy protection.

Sounds like the crack is built in.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13707529 Tue, 21 Jun 2005 00:15:01 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13705988 dadkins : Cool! I bet I can copy it... whether it's mastered in analog or digital. :)

Take care friends!
David

P.S. I love my VAIO! ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13705988 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 20:53:16 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13705848 B :

said by SpannerITWks

:

Becker: We went forward to analog!

Fagen: Analog is the medium of the future!

Becker: We ended up using analog because we started working at Sear Sound and we loved the studio so much and they only had analog machines there.

Fagen: Walter Sear, the studio owner, is deeply into gear you might call retro, but since it never really went out, how could it be retro?

Uh, honest, but not exactly the most compelling technical conversion story, you know? :)

-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13705848 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 20:38:42 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13705669 froggy58 : CDex does just fine.

K]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13705669 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 20:17:32 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13705526 SpannerITWks : I do actually know more than just a little about making music and recording and electronics !

I'm fully aware of Analog to Digital conversion for making Cd's/Mastering etc etc. I wasn't talking about that, but rather the front end Analog recording equipment a lot of artistes, i Never said ALL, Choose to use over Digital to achieve the best sound possible BEFORE conversion.

This includes Analog electric pianos/organs/synths etc and of course guitars etc etc. Also the use of Analog mixing desks and tons of processing/effects gear. Then it's recorded direct to 24/48 etc track Analog tape.

Also you can still buy LP's that have no digital gear in the chain that are made today, ( along ) with CD versions of them.

-

B, why do you just cast it off as baloney without having tried it, like i said if you get the chance try it.

Quote B - ( Modern digital equipment as an intermediary storage medium has no effect, at all, on the quality of the analog waveforms produced ) -

It does actually ! Digital has Finite resolution, Analog is Far less restricted in resolution.

-

koolman, yes ( some ) recordings are made in whatever Bit Rate with whatever Sample Rate, but please check the following. -

Here's a quick on the fly google sample of just one studios Analog setup, and also some well known artistes who have gone back to Analog.

-

Sabella Studios New York -

Our NEVE 8068 console with "Flying Fader Automation" is supported with a Studer A80 24-Track Tape machine, 9 Pultec tube EQs and the list goes on. Oh yeah, and we also have 32 tracks of Pro Tools all in the same room. Check out our equipment list and equipment pics for more info on our gear. - »www.sabellastudios.com/home.php -

Now that more and more musicians have access to home recording equipment they have become less reliant on major recording studios for basic tracking. Digital multi track recording has revolutionized the way music is recorded today but it does have some serious drawbacks that cannot be fixed with a few plugins.

When we want a nice warm fat kick drum and a sizzling hi-hat we go right to our Studer tape deck. Drums are recorded to tape and then, depending on the circumstances, we dump right to Pro Tools and edit and mix with ease there. - »www.sabellastudios.com/protools_01.php -

Above page links to Everything Must Go -

After years of working in digital, Everything Must Go marks your return back to analog.

Becker: We went forward to analog!

Fagen: Analog is the medium of the future!

Becker: We ended up using analog because we started working at Sear Sound and we loved the studio so much and they only had analog machines there.

Fagen: Walter Sear, the studio owner, is deeply into gear you might call retro, but since it never really went out, how could it be retro? - »mixonline.com/ar/audio_steely_da···rything/ -
--
I Only Know What I Know But I'm Learning all The Time -

Stay Safe -

Spanner intheWorks
/SpannerITWks]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13705526 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 20:00:21 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13705088 koolman2 : Wrong. Albums now are recorded in 24-bit/96KHz or 24-bit/192KHz digital PCM encoding.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13705088 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:03:38 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13704681 B : I'm the furthest thing from an audiophile, but that sounds like baloney to me. Of course the source AND the resulting output to your ears are ALWAYS both both analog (digital instruments notwithstanding).

The use of modern digital equipment as an intermediary storage medium has no effect, at all, on the quality of the analog waveforms produced, as far as I understand. (The whole point of the "lots of error correction" is to ensure that the analog waveforms are stored and reproduced EXACTLY.)

-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13704681 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 18:12:40 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13704644 SpannerITWks : Just outa interest, the vast majority of music available right now, was recorded using Analog equipment, including Tape !

Even today artists/producers etc are using, even Insisting on using Analog recording gear to try and get that Sound that ONLY those methods can achieve.

Think of ALL those classic albums that were recorded before Digital, and how much pleasure they Still bring to Millions of us.

A bit of hiss maybe here n there, big deal, it's the quality of the music and THAT sound that Really count.

Remember Analog is a continuous waveform, but Digital is Not, it's discontinuous and has to be severely manipulated in order to make it work, with lots of error correction going on a lot of the time etc.

If someone played you the same album, one a quality LP system and one from CD, side by side with the levels matched and started in synch, and kept switching from one to the other, you might be surprised which one you actually preferred.

Of course if you don't have a good HiFi system and only have one of these midi setups or listen thru your PC, then you can't expect to hear what you've been missing.

If you get the chance to do it, Do it n see/hear !

Spanner
--
I Only Know What I Know But I'm Learning all The Time - Stay Safe - Spanner intheWorks /SpannerITWks]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13704644 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 18:07:14 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13704532 koolman2 : Nope, that's a fake site by someone trying to get donations. DVD Decrypter is gone, sorry.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13704532 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 17:54:50 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13704520 antiserious :

... all I know is what I read, sorry ... seems he's battered but not beaten ...
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13704520 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 17:52:27 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13704501 B : Is that really Lightning UK? He lost "his programmers"? He's not a programmer?

-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13704501 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 17:50:05 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13704471 antiserious :

said by koolman2

said by badboy54166

:

DVD Decrypter works lovely ;)

Yes, it does. Too bad it's been shut down... :(

... the reports of DVD Decrypter's demise have been greatly exxagerated ... »www.dvddecrypter.r8.org/ ...

--
... "Nobody's perfect - well, there was this one guy, but we killed Him" ... Christopher Moore, 'Lamb' ...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13704471 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 17:44:36 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13704210 anon : yes they can without recording to a tape, i used musicmatch 10 on the new foo fighters cd (in your honor) ripped them once to my harddrive and burned 10 or so copys of the cd one for each of my friends ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13704210 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 17:13:46 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13703997 koolman2 : Good job. :uhh:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13703997 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:41:43 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13703987 BIGHUSKER :

said by dantz

said by TheWickerMan

said by dantz

:

This whole thread sounds like a den of thieves trying to figure out how they can continue to shoplift their groceries now that the grocer is planning to put their favorite items into a locked cabinet.

More like the grocer locking up our items after we've bought and paid for them.

I'll bet you'd quickly change your tune if the tables were turned.

Imagine that you are a musician who writes and performs music and makes a living by selling albums. Or that you are an artist, or an author, or a programmer, or a web page designer, or that you are involved in any other creative endeavor that can be easily copied by today's technology.

You would quickly realize that all of those people who make illegal copies of your work are stealing from you.

I just downloaded 20 mp3s and dedicated it to you.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13703987 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:40:56 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13703960 dadkins : I have this "problem", the only CD/DVD players I own are built in my laptops. These drives do not support 1x playback. 4x is the slowest speed they support(bummer).

The "player" softwares I choose to use have this awful habit of caching the played items. They also have the "option" of COPYING whatever I "play". They achieve this at faster speeds than I can watch/listen to said items.

I guess I should stop purchasing digital media all together, since my CD/DVD players do this. Oh wait... they don't want that, do they? Hmmm.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13703960 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:37:38 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13703880 koolman2 : Making a copy to go on YOUR OWN DIGITAL PLAYER is NOT illegal!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13703880 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:25:31 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13703836 dantz :

said by TheWickerMan

said by dantz

More like the grocer locking up our items after we've bought and paid for them.

said by badboy54166

:

DVD Decrypter works lovely ;)

Yes, it does. Too bad it's been shut down... :(
--
A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops. On my desk, I have a work station.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13703803 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:16:55 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13703737 andyb : an application called AnyDVD also does audio cd's now. works like a charm ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13703737 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:06:26 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13703695 TheWickerMan :

said by dadkins

:

Maybe because Fair Use isn't illegal... ;)

...yet. It's not like they haven't been trying to make it so.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13703695 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:00:52 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13703679 dadkins : Maybe because Fair Use isn't illegal... ;)

Legal, sorry.

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13703679 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 15:59:35 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13703229 SpannerITWks : major marco, how do you know my mothers not dead thank you very much !!!

Also your post did nothing to further the thread in ANY way whatsoever, so i'm at a loss to even try and fathom why you did ?

I've noticed others posting OT comments on almost a daily basis on these forums to many people, Why ?

I thought posting ways on here to encorourage others to commit illegal acts was a No No ? Maybe it's not after all as i havn't seen Any intervention as of yet !

Spanner
--
I Only Know What I Know But I'm Learning all The Time - Stay Safe - Spanner intheWorks /SpannerITWks]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13703229 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 15:06:39 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13703024 TheWickerMan :

said by dantz

More like the grocer locking up our items after we've bought and paid for them.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13703024 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:43:48 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13703003 badboy54166 : DVD Decrypter works lovely ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13703003 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:41:15 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13702361 dadkins : It isn't theivery if I were to make a backup of a CD/DVD that I paid for, especially if it were a Sony CD/DVD being copied on a Sony laptop using Sony Factory installed software. Fair use is fair use.

Even if it wasn't a Sony CD/DVD, if I paid for it, I will do as I see fit. If they want to try and bust me for some BS... Bring It!
DRM is easily defeated, sorry. :p Copy Protection is a joke.
I have LEGAL software that allows me to copy ANYTHING that is inserted into my optical drive. Be it stripped of protection or a bit for bit copy, I can and will make a copy. ;)

YMMV.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13702361 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 13:23:34 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13702229 dantz : This whole thread sounds like a den of thieves trying to figure out how they can continue to shoplift their groceries now that the grocer is planning to put their favorite items into a locked cabinet. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13702229 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 13:09:43 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13702143 dave :

said by john262

:

This idea that only digital sounds good is not true. A well made analog track can sound very good.

However, what we're really talking about here is starting with a digital recording encoded with stuido-quality equipment, decoding it into analogue, transferring it as analogue, recoding it into digital, and expecting that to be 'as good as' the original.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13702143 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:56:05 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13702036 john262 : You wouldn't need to copy the tracks to a cassette tape. Just connect your preamplifier's line out jack (the one that you would normally have connected to your tape deck) to your sound card's line in jack. Then use freeware Audiograbber's line in sampling feature (or any number of other software titles) to rip the track. If you are careful to make sure that your sound card's record level is set properly so that it doesn't go into clipping you can get a good high quality file.

Yes, this method is a bit time consuming because you have to record the tracks the old fashioned way in real time, but that doesn't mean that if you are willing to take the time you won't get a high quality file out of the process.

This idea that only digital sounds good is not true. A well made analog track can sound very good. I prefer vinyl records to CD's any day all things being equal. Vinyl has the problem of surface noise but other than that it has a warmer and fuller sound than digital has IMO.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13702036 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:41:09 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13701858 AT1 : Sure but....... The issue is sound quality. Anything that can be sent to speakers can be recorded in one form or another. It's the quality of the resulting song that is the issue. Ever record a "record"? It's full of pops and hisses. A digital track right from the CD is clean and no loss of sound quality. So what would you rather record from??]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13701858 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:21:05 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13701748 Oleg : Well I will just burn tracks on CD than rip it to wav this will be much better and will save lots of time,but thanks for the advice.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13701748 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:05:32 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13701693 Anonymous_ : then i could use WINRIP and copy from my Digital OUT (SPDIF)
--
You are currently using 2252 MB (98%) of your 2302 MB.---- 76607 emails]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13701693 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 11:57:13 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13701552 anon : they have protection built in, they need "music discs" (can't use the cheap data ones) and you can't make a second generation copy (unless you use a computer)

console cd burners are also slow (a computer can burn a whole disc in a minute, consoles are usually 4x max)

there are lots of ways to make copies, but some are much better than others--not leaving the digital domain is a huge time saver]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13701552 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 11:36:51 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13701326 Cozworth : Them old Audio CD recorders are just lurking, ready to copy anything with some nasty protection on it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13701326 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:58:25 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13701236 Oleg : Well I think I have the right to play music I have paid for without any limits and RIAA can go to hell :mad:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13701236 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:41:06 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13701225 anon : totalrecorder or some other "live ripper"

the program poses as a soundcard, thus defeating any detriments to it being prevented from recording a stream

there are infinite ways around problems

be creative]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13701225 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:38:17 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13701213 kw : Probably. But you won't find it here...since you post is going to get deleted. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13701213 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:36:20 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13701203 Oleg : I know it's off topic,but Is there anyway to crack Real Player DRM files without burning it to CD and than covering it to wav?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13701203 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:33:28 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13701148 kw : Then you'd have two copies of a DRM'd disc. The best way to get around DRM is probably to disable Autoplay, and leave it at that. If the disc doesn't run when it's put into the computer, then it defeats anything they might try and put on there. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13701148 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:24:31 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13701123 Oleg : Why not just to make a copy to CDR :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13701123 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:19:48 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13701117 anon : 'some guy' just closed this topic - a stand-alone CD-copier, or CD-player linked with CD-recorder always do the job.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13701117 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:17:46 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13701034 anon : cds play on regular cd players because an audio cd player has no idea how to deal with the executable file that installs the "protection"

simple ways to become protected from copy protection

1)disable autorun on all drives on windows boxes--there are many ways to do this, here is one »features.engadget.com/entry/3239···8279892/

2)use a nonstandard os--big labels will never bother to create a linux version of their protection

3)don't buy cds--they can't put nasties on your computer if you just download the cd preripped from somewhere else

if you bought a cd, you have the right to rip it. a DMCA challenge is unavoidable in the near future, but media companies will lose it, since encryption is not built into a cd player (like it is in a dvd player), but in the media--think of it as "optional software", you can't be compelled to install it]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13701034 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:00:08 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13700866 novaflare : heh dave at the rate riaas going their gona start sueing people for playing their music to loud and putting on a public performance. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13700866 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 09:27:35 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13700832 dave :

said by Primis1

:

To everyone stupidly harping on the "perfect digital copy" thing... you do realize file formats like MP3 are lossy formats and the RIAA still doesn't want you to have those right?

Your "perfect digital copy" argument is stupid and irrelevant. They don't want you to have copies, period. They could care less what the quality is.

Now everyone move along, nothing to see here...

Of course. And I don't use MP3 either :-)

But your argument is incorrect. MP3 and other lossy formats are supposed to change the signal only in ways that "you might not notice".

By comparison, the imperfections introduced by analogue tape are mere freaks of nature, and don't take your feelings about the sound into account. (OK, maybe noise-elimination techniques such as dbx and Dolby take your feelings into account).

I would agree that, in principle, the RIAA and their ilk don't want you to have copies, period (even those copies you are legally entitled to have). However, I contend that the higher fidelity, the more worried they are about it, and that analogue copies are their least concern.

(Look at it this way: if you're selling pirate copies, you sell fewer copies if they're crappy copies. Thus simple risk analysis should tell 'em to go after the better copies first.)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13700832 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 09:19:25 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13700554 Primis1 : To everyone stupidly harping on the "perfect digital copy" thing... you do realize file formats like MP3 are lossy formats and the RIAA still doesn't want you to have those right?

Your "perfect digital copy" argument is stupid and irrelevant. They don't want you to have copies, period. They could care less what the quality is.

Now everyone move along, nothing to see here...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13700554 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 08:07:46 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13700451 novaflare :

said by Anonymous_

:

there is a better way to do this

buy for 19.99$

"Microsoft Plus! Digital Media Edition "

Connect the audio out (3.5mm jack) to your line in(3.5mm jack) and recored it from there

they can not put copy Protection because there would be no way for the headphones to decode it

Most copy protection doesnt change what you here. Even the meathods that use digital tones use ones that are out of the normal human hearing range. So it not so much that it has to be decoded its that it triggers your computer and software to refuse to record it. Saddly sonic foundry and many other comercial programs wont let you record it at all any more. Ad for dit in dit out that wont work its digital.
--
DSLR security chat at us.ausirc.net chanel #dslr_sec lets pack this channel open source dns server for *nix and windows »powerdns.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13700451 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 07:25:23 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13700429 anon : " "Microsoft Plus! Digital Media Edition "

Connect the audio out (3.5mm jack) to your line in(3.5mm jack) and recored it from there

they can not put copy Protection because there would be no way for the headphones to decode it"

And what you have is no longer a perfect digital copy.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13700429 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 07:19:00 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13700114 Frosties : Hm, used to be that if Philips cd logo was on the cover then it was safe to buy, when in doubt put it back. Are you saying that this doesn't apply anymore?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13700114 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 04:15:42 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13699992 koolman2 : Post the CD names and we can find out for you.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13699992 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 03:10:23 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13699663 Libra : I have a question. I know all CDs, etc. are copyrighted, but do they disclose this new technology on the Cd? And do they disclose that they will install a driver on your computer?

If you just wanted to play a CD on the computer and used the shift key so it wouldn't auto-run, when you clicked on the D Drive to play it, does that prevent it from installing that driver? Or are you doomed to get this driver installed by playing it?

I just looked at 4 new CDs of my daughter's and the only thing I see is FBI warnings about copying.

Sincerely, Libra]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13699663 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 01:46:14 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13699606 foxsteve : How about free Audiograbber from »www.audiograbber.com-us.net/? :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13699606 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 01:37:45 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13699568 Anonymous_ : there is a better way to do this

buy for 19.99$

"Microsoft Plus! Digital Media Edition "

Connect the audio out (3.5mm jack) to your line in(3.5mm jack) and recored it from there

they can not put copy Protection because there would be no way for the headphones to decode it

--
You are currently using 2310 MB (100%) of your 2313 MB.---- 77651 emails]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13699568 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 01:30:36 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13699476 clowny :

said by SpannerITWks

:

I'm all for copy protection, whether it's Music/Films/Software whatever. And so would you be i imagine if you produced similar work.

I'm not for copy protection. I buy my software, but people with cracked games, dowloading lossless format music, and software that doesn't have activation have it easier than paying customers. What's the point of copy protection then?

Copy protection will always be cracked, & the paying consumer will have the hassles with the crap, like Starforce.

»Irritation-Ware

Why is this in the Security forum anyway?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13699476 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 01:10:04 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13699388 steelyken : I don't know, but I think a recording of me eating Cheez Whiz topped crackers would probably sound as good as mikedurrbeck's uncompressed>compressed>decompressed>recompressed idea. :p]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13699388 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 00:54:20 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13699168 steelyken : Use common sense

1. Don't buy copy-protected cds
2. Take the money you saved and buy some Cheez Whiz
3. Enjoy Cheez Whiz. Good on crackers.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13699168 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 00:16:15 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13699155 mikedurrbeck : How about ripping the cd to Media Player as .wma files, then burning a new disc using the create music cd option on Media Player. Then take that cd and rip the tracks as .mp3 with Winamp. I doubt there copy protection can survive multiple format changing. Its more over copy limiting rather than protection anyway.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13699155 Mon, 20 Jun 2005 00:14:12 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13698713 anon : use linux. This isn't an easy fix i know but it does wonders at copying data.

1. boot damnsmalllinux CD toram
2. put in other music CD See if it plays.
3. copy files. or make iso and mount iso then copy files inside.
4. put files on USB Flash drive
5. put flash drive in Windows box.

Lots of steps left out.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13698713 Sun, 19 Jun 2005 22:59:32 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13698694 simpletrick : On reflection I do not wish to post... (duplicate post)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13698694 Sun, 19 Jun 2005 22:55:22 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13698351 peggypwr1 : But, when played in a regular stereo, the unrestriced tracks are accessed. So, they would not be encrypted. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13698351 Sun, 19 Jun 2005 22:07:53 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13698300 anon : cant some cd's be disabled with just a simple black marker? then the cd's hologram cant be read by the laster, because it is masked by the black opaque ink of the marker.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13698300 Sun, 19 Jun 2005 22:00:04 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13698070 novaflare :

said by peggypwr1

:

How about playing the CD through a player with digital out.
Record the results on a soundcard with digital in?

Likly wnt help. The digital the part most love so much is also how the copy protection works in many cases.
--
DSLR security chat at us.ausirc.net chanel #dslr_sec lets pack this channel open source dns server for *nix and windows »powerdns.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13698070 Sun, 19 Jun 2005 21:24:09 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13698050 peggypwr1 : How about playing the CD through a player with digital out.
Record the results on a soundcard with digital in?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13698050 Sun, 19 Jun 2005 21:21:42 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13697893 novaflare : lol dave. I dont know i think those old disks were better than todays cds. Sure there was some light background hissing but you know i sort of miss that little hiss. It added a warmth to the music not matter what your tastes that todays cds and dats just dont have. How ever some record lables are now produceing digital recordings of those old records with out filtering out the background hiss. Nothing like listening to styxx the way it was ment to be heard :)

Damn i think i just gave away my age with that one ;)
--
DSLR security chat at us.ausirc.net chanel #dslr_sec lets pack this channel open source dns server for *nix and windows »powerdns.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13697893 Sun, 19 Jun 2005 20:51:12 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13697861 dave :

said by kw

:

so just about any music made before 1985ish you wont come close to? because back then...they didnt have anything but cassettes...which arent digital.

Speaking as one who was there, I can definitely disagree with that.

We had these strange plastic pancakes with a scratchy groove. They were capable of holding 20 minutes (per side) of pretty high-fidelity audio, though there was no easy way to reproduce them.

For reproducing audio, we used this other device called a 'tape recorder'. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13697861 Sun, 19 Jun 2005 20:45:34 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13697780 Oleg :

said by kw

:

so just about any music made before 1985ish you wont come close to? because back then...they didnt have anything but cassettes...which arent digital. and like others have said...you cant get a digital copy out of an analog one...

Well time has changed now and I have all my music on CDs that I have had on tapes a long time a go :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13697780 Sun, 19 Jun 2005 20:30:25 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13697757 kw : so just about any music made before 1985ish you wont come close to? because back then...they didnt have anything but cassettes...which arent digital. and like others have said...you cant get a digital copy out of an analog one...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13697757 Sun, 19 Jun 2005 20:26:19 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13697296 Oleg : I would not even come close to analog made copy :p]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13697296 Sun, 19 Jun 2005 19:01:22 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13697106 koolman2 : Sure....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13697106 Sun, 19 Jun 2005 18:28:02 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13695279 caffeinator : Aww, reminds me of the old days of Locksmith on the Apple II..;-)

Anything can be cracked given the time, skills and motivation to do so.

Using an analog device to 'copy' a digital source is just silly imho.
--
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - A. Einstein]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13695279 Sun, 19 Jun 2005 13:26:32 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13695206 major marco :

said by SpannerITWks

:

Yes they can, And in the Digital domain too, but i'm not saying how to do it !

Gee, how nice for you. Your mother must be very proud.
--
»bushflash.com/ma.html]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13695206 Sun, 19 Jun 2005 13:17:07 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13695027 dadkins :

said by koolman2

said by dadkins

:

*Disclaimer: Only for Legal Backup purposes.

Oh, I'm pretty sure that you could illegally copy a CD or DVD if you felt like it... ;)

Not me... ;)

I have more than what is shown here...

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13695027 Sun, 19 Jun 2005 12:50:15 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13694948 koolman2 :

said by dadkins

:

*Disclaimer: Only for Legal Backup purposes.

Oh, I'm pretty sure that you could illegally copy a CD or DVD if you felt like it... ;)
--
A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops. On my desk, I have a work station.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13694948 Sun, 19 Jun 2005 12:37:12 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13694572 norwegian : crikey spanner, no wonder you get the attention you do, fancy stirring the pot with a bl$%^y big wooden spoon,
good to see....only because if we don't see our own short falls, how can we get better

sorry mods, it is off topic, so ill get back to the question

the technology is only young, like most of what we play with, sure digital does give more control, for big brother, can i hear anyone crying over where did analog go...

but realistically looking at this question...

someone will break the security for anything that is produced to secure the CD, the problem still remains, that while we use technology at the rate we do...it is inevitable someone will pay to break its code, its human nature]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13694572 Sun, 19 Jun 2005 11:40:26 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13694278 dadkins : "DRM and all forms of copy protection are snake oil. There
hasn't been one that hasn't gotten cracked yet. If it can
be heard or seen, it can be copied."

So true! ;) Lets just say, I can copy any CD or DVD made*. I might have to copy the "Copy Protection" along with it... but I will have a copy of the original. :)

*Disclaimer: Only for Legal Backup purposes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13694278 Sun, 19 Jun 2005 10:50:43 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13694098 Doctor Four :

said by whizkid3

quote:
Copy-Protection on cd's has been a lost cause so far...such as holding shift when you insert the cd.

???

That is SunnComm's Mediamax copy protection scheme. That
was cracked by a Princeton University student, IIRC, and
SunnComm fired off a C&D notice at him, claiming the loss
of $10 million over it. They backed down from their legal
threat after an overwhelming amount of negative publicity.

The latest scheme relies on autoplay being turned on to
install a hidden DRM driver that supposedly interferes
with CD ripping software. But it, like the previous ones,
won't load (and programs like CDex can just ignore the
data track) if it is turned off.

DRM and all forms of copy protection are snake oil. There
hasn't been one that hasn't gotten cracked yet. If it can
be heard or seen, it can be copied.
--
"Kayura or Badamon, whichever you are, you should know that I will never give up this battle. By the will of the Ancient, I shall succeed!" - Shuten (Anubis) from the Ronin Warriors. To RIAA/MPAA - You can sue but you can't catch everyone!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13694098 Sun, 19 Jun 2005 10:19:08 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13693968 kw :

said by whizkid3

quote:
Copy-Protection on cd's has been a lost cause so far...such as holding shift when you insert the cd.

???

Like a previous poster said, you have to reply on the Windows Autorun feature to work in order to execute the copy protection. Holding shift while inserting the cd tells Windows not to autorun. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13693968 Sun, 19 Jun 2005 09:49:42 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13693663 SpannerITWks : Yes they can, And in the Digital domain too, but i'm not saying how to do it !

I'm all for copy protection, whether it's Music/Films/Software whatever. And so would you be i imagine if you produced similar work.

Everybody likes to get paid for their work, and eat etc etc don't they ?
--
I Only Know What I Know But I'm Learning all The Time - Stay Safe - Spanner intheWorks /SpannerITWks]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13693663 Sun, 19 Jun 2005 08:11:33 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13693433 koolman2 : That doesn't help if you want to make compressed versions for your portable player, such as an iPod or a Dell DJ.
--
A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops. On my desk, I have a work station.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13693433 Sun, 19 Jun 2005 05:23:52 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13693336 anon : To get around any copy protection I thought you just need to create a ISO image of the original cd, and then burn the ISO image to a cd-r/rw. ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13693336 Sun, 19 Jun 2005 04:28:17 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13693082 JamPony9 : Original poster seems to be referring to the new tech BMG is using, as reported here, for example : »www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtm···=8814566

It seems to be another variation of the trick where you're supposed to get the CD-audio on a standalone player, but only the Microsoft-format tracks on a computer-type drive.

In the past this type of scheme has relied on two things: the Windows autorun feature, and some sort of monkeying with the data structures on the disk to confuse the ripping software so it sees the compressed tracks and misses the CD-audio.

Auto-run is worse than a design defect; it is an anti-feature that constitutes a gaping security hole. At least one previous scheme of this kind actually installed a driver, without warning the user, and even if the user opted out of a subsequent prompt. The driver then would always ran silently in the background and disabled ripping if it detected a disk with a certain digital marker.

That's a perfect illustration of malware installation by the autorun exploit. Every Windows user should turn off autorun and be careful never to execute any software from what purports to be an audio CD. This is the only reason this thread qualifies for the security forum.

The other trick usually involves a falsified table of contents or some other violation of the CD specifications to make the CD-audio harder for the user to access. It can be overcome by ripping with suitable software (also optical drives differ in their behavior). Try Nero or EAC on Windows; isobuster on Windows; Grip on Linux. Reportedly the BMG tricks don't work on Mac.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13693082 Sun, 19 Jun 2005 02:39:40 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13692816 captnhook : Just speculating here as I haven't encountered a Copy Protected Cd as of yet.. but I wouldn't think you'd need to do the analog cassette route. Musicmatch (free recorder/player) offers a record in analog mode, I would think that this would defeat the digital copy protection with a minimal loss of quality. I'm certain that other ways to defeat this so called "protection" will become available soon if they aren't available already.

If they can create it simple logic tells you that it can be circumvented.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13692816 Sun, 19 Jun 2005 01:22:33 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13692587 INHCNN :

said by dave

:

if you don't mind listening to lower-quality sound...

Ahem… “Inferior” ;)

I don’t think CD>Tape>PC will be a neccisary step by any stretch. This will not be then end of consumer converted media.

Why? Well – one of my favorites: If it can be engineered, it can be un-engineered. Some crafty hack will find a way to beat it, publish the findings, and we’re back at square one. Simply more money spent by the RIAA/MPAA in a useless fight.

Sorry for taking it OT.
--
"Pressure makes diamonds."
--General George S. Patton]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13692587 Sun, 19 Jun 2005 00:33:09 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13692522 whizkid3 :

quote:
Copy-Protection on cd's has been a lost cause so far...such as holding shift when you insert the cd.

???]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13692522 Sun, 19 Jun 2005 00:22:33 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13692495 kw : I wouldn't worry about that problem just yet. I'm pretty sure there will be a way to copy music for a long time. Copy-Protection on cd's has been a lost cause so far...such as holding shift when you insert the cd. :p]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13692495 Sun, 19 Jun 2005 00:19:23 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13692429 dave :

said by peggypwr1

:

Can't somebody play the CD in the stereo, record it to cassette, then rip the songs from the casette to the computer. Then maybe use software to clean up the sound then upload?

Sure, at loss of fidelity, but if you don't mind listening to lower-quality sound, go ahead.

It's always been possible to duplicate analogue recordings, but it hasn't been too big a deal for the industry, because the duplicates are always worse than the original, and people tended to actually buy things they liked. However, with digital recordings, you can make bit-perfect copies, and that's where the problem lies, in the eyes of the copyright holder.

Any time you pass digital audio through an analogue step, you reduce the quality. Especially cassette tape! "Cleaning up" can never restore the information you lost - the laws of physics are against you.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13692429 Sun, 19 Jun 2005 00:10:54 EDT Re: Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13692333 peggypwr1 : oops i meant to sday, when played on a computer the restrictive tracks will be active.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13692333 Sat, 18 Jun 2005 23:55:32 EDT Can't Copy Protected CDs still be cracked? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13692329 peggypwr1 : You guys have probably heard about the new cipy protection for music now. When played in regular home stereo, the unrestricted tracks will be active. But, when played on a CD, the copy protected restrictive traks will be activated limiting the # of copies you can make.

Can't somebody play the CD in the stereo, record it to cassette, then rip the songs from the casette to the computer. Then maybe use software to clean up the sound then upload? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13692329 Sat, 18 Jun 2005 23:54:42 EDT