Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections in Security

said by mers2

I was wondering if Lavasoft and MS didn't attend the same PR School. :)

At least MS has not elected to remove its most valued asset: Feedback in the form of public postings, like a forum or newsgroups. Granted, as big as they are, they may or may not always listen, we can only hope.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13839037 Thu, 07 Jul 2005 23:09:21 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13838883 mers2 :

said by Reverend Ike

said by mers2

said by SUMware

:

From The Register:

quote:
Microsoft declined to shed any light on why it has stopped classifying Claria's software as a threat to user's security that ought to be removed. "As your questions involve a rumoured acquisition, and as Microsoft does not comment on rumours, we will not be able to provide you with any further comment at this point," a spokeswoman for Microsoft UK said.

I was wondering if Lavasoft and MS didn't attend the same PR School. :)
--
God put me on this Earth to accomplish a certain number of things. Right now, I am so far behind I will never die. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13838883 Thu, 07 Jul 2005 22:48:21 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13838786 Reverend Ike :

said by mers2

said by SUMware

:

From The Register:

quote:
Microsoft declined to shed any light on why it has stopped classifying Claria's software as a threat to user's security that ought to be removed. "As your questions involve a rumoured acquisition, and as Microsoft does not comment on rumours, we will not be able to provide you with any further comment at this point," a spokeswoman for Microsoft UK said.

I agree completely - that is one very contorted effort to avoid answering a question. And if you apply their own "logic", MS is forcing people to conclude that there IS a direct link between the acquisition talks and the downgrading. Back to PR School for that spokeswoman ... :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13838786 Thu, 07 Jul 2005 22:38:00 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13838780 Doctor Four : Microsoft, meet Slashdot effect. This bit was posted there
just today in their Yours Rights Online section:
»yro.slashdot.org/yro/05/07/07/12···&tid=201]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13838780 Thu, 07 Jul 2005 22:37:33 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13838494 feverfive : ^^^Yeah, & the "uninitiated" (i.e., those that know less about security even than me) will just assume it is safe to ignore Claria. My sister, who knows next to nothing about spyware uses MSAS b/c she just assumes M$ will protect her. W/out me telling her otherwise, she wouldn't have a clue..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13838494 Thu, 07 Jul 2005 22:05:52 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13838312 jmorlan :

said by Just Bob

:

From the help file:

Recommended Actions .....

But there is still no way to change the recommended action for Claria. It now defaults to "ignore" but if you would like to change the recommendation next time to "quarantine" you can't do that. The next time you encounter Claria it will still recommend "ignore." Yes, the user can over-ride the recommendation, but cannot change the default recommendation except to downgrade it to "always ignore." I think there should be settings for "always quarantine" and "always delete" just as there is a setting for "always ignore."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13838312 Thu, 07 Jul 2005 21:43:53 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13837807 mers2 :

said by SUMware

:

From The Register:

quote:
Spyware researcher Eric Howes has posted screenshots on Broadband Reports showing the latest signature updates of Microsoft AntiSpyware give users a recommended action of ignoring Claria.

Microsoft declined to shed any light on why it has stopped classifying Claria's software as a threat to user's security that ought to be removed. "As your questions involve a rumoured acquisition, and as Microsoft does not comment on rumours, we will not be able to provide you with any further comment at this point," a spokeswoman for Microsoft UK said.

While I understand they may not have wanted to comment on the rumored MS/Claria acquisition, the question was about the definitions change and at the very least they owe their customers an explanation as to why Claria was downgraded. They apparently have picked up Lavasoft's sidestepping of questions. Very disappointing.
--
God put me on this Earth to accomplish a certain number of things. Right now, I am so far behind I will never die. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13837807 Thu, 07 Jul 2005 20:45:42 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13837272 SUMware : From The Register:

quote:
Spyware researcher Eric Howes has posted screenshots on Broadband Reports showing the latest signature updates of Microsoft AntiSpyware give users a recommended action of ignoring Claria.

Microsoft declined to shed any light on why it has stopped classifying Claria's software as a threat to user's security that ought to be removed. "As your questions involve a rumoured acquisition, and as Microsoft does not comment on rumours, we will not be able to provide you with any further comment at this point," a spokeswoman for Microsoft UK said.

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13837272 Thu, 07 Jul 2005 19:43:43 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13836773 boblandy :

said by Just Bob

:

In addition Microsoft AntiSpyware provides you with instructions for dealing with the threat.... Remove. Selecting this action permanently removes the threat from your computer

it's been so long since it found anything, i forgot how it operated! thanks for doing what i should have done.... looking in the help file :)
--
look out kid they keep it all hid]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13836773 Thu, 07 Jul 2005 18:38:12 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13836648 Just Bob :

said by boblandy

said by Just Bob

:

The user can override the recommendation and change the action to remove

great. how? thank you

From the help file:

Recommended Actions

Microsoft AntiSpyware analyzes the threat and makes a recommendation on how you should handle the threat. You can, however, override the recommended action by selecting a new action from the menu of actions displayed within the results. In addition Microsoft AntiSpyware provides you with instructions for dealing with the threat. Below are the possible actions that can be performed on each threat detected.

Ignore. Selecting this action temporarily ignores this threat until the next time you run a spyware scan.

Quarantine. Selecting this action safely removes this threat from your computer and stores it in your spyware quarantine. Any threats in your spyware quarantine do not run on your computer and you can restore these items back to their original state at any time. (Note, some spyware threats cannot be quarantined, only deleted.)

Remove. Selecting this action permanently removes the threat from your computer.

Always Ignore. Selecting this action, much like Ignore, does not quarantine or remove this threat. In addition, the threat is added to your Ignored Threats list and is not marked as a threat again the next time you run a spyware scan. You can manage your Ignored Threats in the spyware settings.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13836648 Thu, 07 Jul 2005 18:23:16 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13836596 boblandy :

said by Just Bob

:

The user can override the recommendation and change the action to remove

great. how? thank you
--
look out kid they keep it all hid]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13836596 Thu, 07 Jul 2005 18:17:16 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13836563 Just Bob :

said by boblandy

:

raises hand... i do... and i will here, as this excerpt seems to imply that the setting can be changed to detect Claria? am i getting that right?

It does and always has reported Claria. In March the recommended action was changed to ignore. The user can override the recommendation and change the action to remove.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13836563 Thu, 07 Jul 2005 18:13:41 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13834650 boblandy :

said by gracie

:

suddenly an updated version of the Microsoft program is programmed to "ignore" those spyware apps by default. And let's face it, who changes the defaults?

raises hand... i do... and i will here, as this excerpt seems to imply that the setting can be changed to detect Claria? am i getting that right?
--
look out kid they keep it all hid]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13834650 Thu, 07 Jul 2005 14:21:05 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13834544 gracie : and another voice (from the most recent ziff-davis what's new now newsletter):

Microsoft's Anti-Spyware Sells Out

A few weeks ago, the nastyware from Claria, called Gator,
was flagged and removed by Microsoft's anti-spyware program.
But now that the two companies are in buyout talks, suddenly
an updated version of the Microsoft program is programmed to
"ignore" those spyware apps by default. And let's face it,
who changes the defaults? It's just another example of
Microsoft selling out. Didn't we learn this lesson long ago?
One company, controlling everything, just isn't good for
users.

Microsoft Spyware Detector Isn't:
»www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1834607,00.asp
--
graciella! "not tonight dear, I have DSL."
Creating SuperOrganizations Worldwide
Creating & Hosting SuperSites Worldwide]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13834544 Thu, 07 Jul 2005 14:10:21 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13832959 anon : Does MS Enduser license agreement allow the use of the Gain suite? If so, msas may not detect it. Even more: other tools may no longer detect it]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13832959 Thu, 07 Jul 2005 10:34:44 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13832344 goalieskates :

said by rahlquist

:

In the end the only thing MS listens to is $$$$.

Pretty much sums it up.

Crippled products are a waste of time and disk. Morally crippled companies are too. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13832344 Thu, 07 Jul 2005 08:51:13 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13832175 rahlquist :

said by wng_z3r0

:

Jane, can't you do something about this? I mean, I know you do so much already :D

but don't you MVP types have a bit more power, say, and connections than us minions? Perhaps if all the MVP's made a stink about this, something might happen?

wng

Dunno about the current system for MVP's but back when I was one we didnt have a lot of clout. Gotta keep in mind while MS appreciates the MVP's they are more of a PR piece and a cost reduction outlet than anything else. The MVP's provide valuable support to the EU, the EU is then happy with someone endorsed by MS and therefore usually MS. Now granted in my day I did fight the good fight and do some serious bashing to get my way while being a MVP. One of my biggest issues was wiuth a certain revison of a popular OS being rolled out and none of the then DTS MVP's getting a copy, kinda hard to support something you dont have.

Anyhow MS will listen to the MVP's but keep in mind more than once MS has tried to pull the plug on the program. In the end the only thing MS listens to is $$$$.
--
The difference between foresight and hindsight is only a matter of when you bother to think things through.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13832175 Thu, 07 Jul 2005 08:09:37 EDT Re: Coursey's take on the purchase http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13817580 gracie :

said by antiserious

:

"... this discussion has speculated on schemes-within-schemes and MS's unknown motives in this matter,"

see »mccd.udc.es/orihuela/epic/ols-master.html for one take on that...

and i agree with your sentiments completely...ms is so used to everyone yelling about something and then rolling over and allowing it...
--
graciella! "not tonight dear, I have DSL."
Creating SuperOrganizations Worldwide
Creating & Hosting SuperSites Worldwide]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13817580 Tue, 05 Jul 2005 13:33:40 EDT Re: Coursey's take on the purchase http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13817205 antiserious :
... thanks for the link, Gracie ...

... this discussion has speculated on schemes-within-schemes and MS's unknown motives in this matter, but what it comes down to for me is this: WHATEVER MS's plans are, buying Claria will reward scumbags for acquiring data in the worst possible way - by spyware ... much of their data was simply stolen by programs installed without the pc owner's knowledge, without full (or often ANY) disclosure ... if you value that data above and beyond the means used to acquire it, you're reinforcing this behavior ... how is this different from buying the stolen credit data that was just reported? ... would MS feel good about doing that? ...

... frankly I can't believe MS would be this stupid, and I see a TON of trouble in their future if they do - all of it deserved ...

... f w i w ...

--
... "Nobody's perfect - well, there was this one guy, but we killed Him" ... Christopher Moore, 'Lamb' ...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13817205 Tue, 05 Jul 2005 12:48:41 EDT Re: Coursey's take on the purchase http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13816616 gracie : just read david coursey's take on the acquisition of claria (gator) by ms and found it well-expressed; perhaps you will too:
»www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1833649,00.asp]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13816616 Tue, 05 Jul 2005 11:29:30 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13816103 PalSlammer : I think most of us are overlooking the traditional M.O. for Microsoft's business plan - rather than spend $$$$$$ and years on original technology to support entry into a market (or expansion of market share), buy the technology jump and share required.

The Claria purchase ties 100% into their Google and Yahoo! fronts, and apparently they were willing to take the P.R. hit to do it.

My curiosity extends to this question: Why hasn't the MSFT P.R. engine kicked in to quell the nervousness around 'trustworthy computing' ?

SP]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13816103 Tue, 05 Jul 2005 10:14:18 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13815801 controler : Thank you for removing my posts.

I had too much to drink for the 4th of july.
I need to stick with beer LOL

sorry.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13815801 Tue, 05 Jul 2005 09:14:20 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13812822 Epyon9283 :

said by redxii

:

For alternatives, I mean operating systems.

Many people are quite content using alternative operating systems. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13812822 Mon, 04 Jul 2005 19:23:39 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13809114 hpguru : Just a thought but perhaps Microsoft is planning on creating an ad supported version of Windows to "upgrade" all the pirates to when they visit WU. I'm not saying that's it because I don't know what they have in mind. It would serve the pirates right though. :D Which is better - ads or a prison term?
--
Get hpHOSTS! Member ASAP
Downing St. memo: BUSH LIED, YOUR SON DIED.
REMEMBER 1776! NEVER FORGET!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13809114 Mon, 04 Jul 2005 08:04:35 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13808812 redxii : For alternatives, I mean operating systems. Since everyone is so ready to think that Microsoft is putting clippy or pop-ups in Windows.. they're trying to compete with Linux, you'd think they know that people will start using Linux that has no ads instead of Windows with ads and/or clippy. People thinking of switching to Linux on the basis of what are essentially rumors.

Re-read my post on drive-by installs. BitTorrent isn't exactly an authorized source.

i'm just gonna shut up now. The impatience of a new PR release is making me weary... sorry..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13808812 Mon, 04 Jul 2005 04:24:08 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13808789 Mele20 :

said by redxii

:

. Didn't all our faces turn red after we found out that it had been downgraded much more long ago than we had originally thought? Wow, we thought we were soooooooooooooooooo smart. Think about before ranting: Read that PDF. Read it twice. PCPitStop got sued by Claria already once, and who else do you think doesn't want to get sued that always get sued?

Whatever happens, it doesn't change my decision. The alternatives suck.

Speak for yourself. MY face didn't turn red when I learned that the downgrade took place in the end of March instead of in June. That revelation just made me wonder how much else Microsoft has downgraded on MSAS that we have not yet discovered and may never discover. It also made me wonder how long Microsoft and Claria have secretly been in cahoots.

As for calling people hypocrites for bashing Microsoft for wanting to collect tons of information on people when they use MSN search but these same folks don't mind if Google does this, well I for one mind very much that Google wants to do this when I use their search engine. I don't let Google collect ANY information about me other than that this IP address did such and such a search. That I can't stop. But I filter Google through Proxo and don't even see the site like Google has it set up and I accept no cookies from Google. I would NEVER use their mail nor will I exchange email with anyone who uses Google mail. I will do the same to Microsoft if they try to collect information about me.

As for alternatives, how can you say there are no good ones? CounterSpy runs circles around MSAS and Sunbelt actually gives a damn about its customer's privacy. Gator never made drive by installs? Come on! :( And PCPitstop deserved to be sued for trying to help all the users who came there heavily infected from drive by installs of Gator? A skunk is a skunk is always a skunk. It stinks to high heaven and so does Claria.
--
Around 2005 a sudden spark will catalyze a Crisis mood. The very survival of the nation will seem to be at stake.Sometime before 2025, America will pass through a great gate in history. The risk and promise will be very high. The Fourth Turning Wm. Straus]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13808789 Mon, 04 Jul 2005 04:15:09 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13808421 redxii : Some many, many years ago, I don't believe anyone bitched about free dial-up and DSL that was supported by ads. It was free internet access, that would have otherwise cost $30-$50+ or so by then. Of course there were always people who wanted to really "steal" it by removing the ad server. If someone stole cable, wouldn't you react the same?

That PDF tells me that Claria is doing nothing different. You get free software, and agree to the EULA that you accept advertisements. And why can't any anti-spy program report anything other than "Precision Time"? Who said Microsoft was planning to make Windows adware supported? They'd then have to give Windows away for free, right? Because they could make up for the price tag a few fold. Why are a lot of people being irrational? You and I know very damn well that Microsoft can't get away with annoying their paying customers with ads, and that Bill and Steve are not the stupid people you think them to be. Why am I asking too much questions? Why the f*%k aren't I getting any answers?

I really don't buy into the "it installs itself without user authorization." How many of us actually read EULAs, and how many average Joes read the EULA? I don't read EULAs. Well, I actually read the Windows EULA, in French too. If you can prove that Claria's software had been installing by unauthorized means but came from an authorized source, I am willing to lay it all on the line. No sir, I went to the Butterfly Oasis download, and they told that you can download ad-free or ad-supported, and here's what it said in plain sight:

With or without the advertising support, GAIN Publishing's ad-supported applications always provide the same features and functionality -- the only difference is whether you will receive pop-up ads from the GAIN Network. On average, users of GAIN Publishing's ad-supported applications receive about one GAIN Network pop-up ad a day.

I'm not defending Claria, I just hate to see everyone go "OMFG I hate M$ oneneoneon1111!!!1111!!oneone" There isn't room enough to compete with Slashdot. Didn't all our faces turn red after we found out that it had been downgraded much more long ago than we had originally thought? Wow, we thought we were soooooooooooooooooo smart. Think about before ranting: Read that PDF. Read it twice. PCPitStop got sued by Claria already once, and who else do you think doesn't want to get sued that always get sued?

Whatever happens, it doesn't change my decision. The alternatives suck.
--
"If you like linux then use it otherwise stop preaching about linux we all already know about it and if we like it we'll use it. If you keep pestering people you look like those annoying Jehovah's witnesses... [..] with nothing better to do."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13808421 Mon, 04 Jul 2005 02:13:34 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13807886 NeOmega : »www.claria.com/privacy/fightings···ndex.pdf

this is the 84 page pdf I am talking about....

In it, it put AOL Spyware Protection, Spysweeper, and McAfee Anti Spyware in it's sights.

So with my conspiracy theorist hat on......

I don't know why they chose SpySweeper. But Norton is out the door and dying. Symantec is now just a big bumbling fool getting it's cash blood sucked by dozens of smaller companies, While McAfee continues to remain competitive. And AOL Spyware Protection... well the Microsoft and AOL rivalry goes waaay back.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13807886 Mon, 04 Jul 2005 00:08:41 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13807810 NeOmega :

This just letting my imagination run wild with me. What if at some time in the future, after having been seduced by the dark side, Microsoft begins threatening legal action against security software vendors who's products detect the software of Microsoft's subsidiary, Claria, as malware?

This is my thoughts exactly. It came to me too, especially after reading a nice glossy write up by Claria about how programs were destroying their software illegally, and encouraging their "customers" to break their EULA's without thier "customer"'s knowledge.

With an extra $500M in cash, Claria can really start to take Microsoft's competition to court. In their 71 page document, (mostly pictures of their butterfly screensaver working after the adware had been removed, I mean the same picture over and over again, like their beautiful butterfly screensaver was worth clogging up people's computers and bandwidth... but I digress). Pretty much, Claria had it's axis of evil pinned out. 3 companies, allthough I do not remember who they were at the moment.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13807810 Sun, 03 Jul 2005 23:56:40 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13807171 boblandy :

said by dave

:

Or like if a computer security company hired a former black-hat hacker

excellent point
--
look out kid they keep it all hid]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13807171 Sun, 03 Jul 2005 21:50:38 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13806557 dave :

said by boblandy

:

like if the police discovered a sophisticated auto theft ring (...)

Or like if a computer security company hired a former black-hat hacker? ;-)

(P.S. I think it was I who raised the 'buy Claria to shut it down' idea in the other thread, but even I didn't believe it).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13806557 Sun, 03 Jul 2005 20:11:58 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13806408 Mele20 : Well said! That sums it up beautifully.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13806408 Sun, 03 Jul 2005 19:45:47 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13805118 Wildcatboy :
I really don't care who's buying Claria. In my view any company (Microsoft or otherwise) that attempts to buy a known spyware producer like Claria

a) Has no understanding of what ethical behavior is.

b) Is no longer trustworthy.

c) Is promoting criminal behavior by making it even more profitable than it already is.

Who they are, how much good they've done before and what their motives are behind this move are all absolutely irrelevant. The end result is all that counts and nothing good can come out of this, neither for the buyer nor for the consumer.
--
You can catch the Devil, but you can't hold him long.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13805118 Sun, 03 Jul 2005 15:23:49 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13805049 dantz :

said by winky

:

I like Microsoft, I really do. I've been using it since 3.0 and have always thought it the best thing since sliced bread. Let's remember that it was Windows that brought computing to the masses in a form that was understandable to the average person. Now, maybe that's because I've been able to bend it to my will all these years and make it behave as I want it to and use other software to do what it can't. I think it's just the idea of MS teaming with a known spyware company that makes everyone jumpy, the actual damage to MS is going to hinge on what MS actually does with it; which has yet to be seen.

I'm a Microsoft fan myself. I make my living using Microsoft products and I generally tend to support the home team as long as they deserve it. I don't expect any software product or company to be perfect at all times (it's impossible) and I see no reason to descend into Microsoft-bashing every time something goes wrong. There's always a solution, and my job is to figure out the best way to make things right.

However, I expect the company to hold up its end. Behaving with an obvious and willfull lack of integrity would be the quickest way for Microsoft to lose my vote. I'm willing to cut them some slack while we see how this thing plays out, but it had better be good. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13805049 Sun, 03 Jul 2005 15:09:11 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13804958 Just Bob : While I wouldn't want it on my computer, Claria/Gator/Gain is generally no longer considered spyware.

»www.spywareguide.com/product_show.php?id=10]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13804958 Sun, 03 Jul 2005 14:55:43 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13804818 rogue_ : If this doesnt convince people that their money invested in MS and their products is used against them I wonder what will?
--
Bozone (n.): The substance surrounding stupid people that stops bright ideas from penetrating.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13804818 Sun, 03 Jul 2005 14:30:01 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13804628 winky : I like Microsoft, I really do. I've been using it since 3.0 and have always thought it the best thing since sliced bread. Let's remember that it was Windows that brought computing to the masses in a form that was understandable to the average person. Now, maybe that's because I've been able to bend it to my will all these years and make it behave as I want it to and use other software to do what it can't. I think it's just the idea of MS teaming with a known spyware company that makes everyone jumpy, the actual damage to MS is going to hinge on what MS actually does with it; which has yet to be seen. In any case, so far, it's turning out to be a bad thing. Seeing as the average user takes all the default settings and the trend is to opt-out as opposed to opt-in it would seem that the "average" user will be the only "at risk" category per usual.
--
If you can break it, I can fix it. Of course, It'll cost ya']]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13804628 Sun, 03 Jul 2005 13:49:41 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13804014 Corrine : I certainly cannot envision MS spending $500M to shut down Claria. Anyone who believes that needs to take off their rose-colored glasses. I agree with the view that MS wants Claria's database in order to better compete with Google. The question remains, however, how would they use it???
--
Corrine, Administrator Freedomlist; Proud Charter Member ASAP Since 2004 (Alliance of Security Analysis Professionals)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13804014 Sun, 03 Jul 2005 11:57:04 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13803970 boblandy :

said by DaMaGeINC

:

I dont see how that could be bad

"buying the company to shut it down" sets a bad precedent because it rewards bad behavior.

like if the police discovered a sophisticated auto theft ring with dozens of stolen luxury cars in a warehouse awaiting shipment to foreign countries, and they identified the leader and said to him, tell you what, we'll give you 3 million dollars for the whole operation... there would soon be lots of fledging car theft rings forming everywhere with dreams of being bought out.
--
look out kid they keep it all hid]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13803970 Sun, 03 Jul 2005 11:47:49 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13802968 redxii : Unfortunately we're down to "Defcon Slashdot" at the moment.

Pun intended :huh:

EDIT: typo]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13802968 Sun, 03 Jul 2005 04:30:32 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13802961 DaMaGeINC : I dont see how that could be bad. Buy out all the adware companys and rip them to shit and fire everyone. If you cant beat them, buy them and destroy them. They have ALL the money. So they can do it. They could buy me if they wanted.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13802961 Sun, 03 Jul 2005 04:28:56 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13802477 Link Logger :

said by wng_z3r0

:

but don't you MVP types have a bit more power, say, and connections than us minions? Perhaps if all the MVP's made a stink about this, something might happen?

Trust me the emails started flying over this one a while ago and there is a private MVP news group which has a number of threads about this and the Claria rumors. I have been trying to avoid comment on this in public until I get some information back from Microsoft, but I indicated to them that I questioned their direction on this matter, but I've also been one to argue for a legal definition of adware/spyware/malware so AV and AS companies could remove malware without fear of legal action from said malware companies. Claria and others have survived this long on legalities, and those need to be closed. Other malware vendors simply need to be shot as their tactics are no where near anything legal.

Blake
--
Vendor: Firewall Logging Software »www.SonicLogger.com - SonicWall and 3Com »www.LinkLogger.com - Linksys, Netgear and Zyxel]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13802477 Sun, 03 Jul 2005 01:44:45 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13802474 TK421 : Just a FYI...

quote:
From Clickz.Com: Claria Drops Kazaa Distribution, Acquisition Rumors Swirl

Behavioral targeting adware firm Claria has quietly dropped one of its most visible and controversial distribution partners, file sharing software player Kazaa.

The decision to drop Kazaa likely wasn't taken lightly. In April 2004, when Claria filed for an initial public offering, which was later withdrawn, the company described its relationship with Kazaa publisher Sharman Networks as "significant."

"We currently acquire a substantial portion of our new users through downloads of the Kazaa Media Desktop," Claria said in its filing. "We expect that our relationship with Sharman Networks will continue to be responsible for a substantial portion of the new installations of our GAIN AdServer software in the future."

Claria dumps their most lucrative partner while MS-AntiSpyware tells users to ignore Claria adware... smells like a done-deal to me. Now we have to wait and see what Microsoft really intends to gain?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13802474 Sun, 03 Jul 2005 01:44:26 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13802435 wng_z3r0 : make a stink everyone:
Please make a stink and file a report...
The only way I know is by phone. If you know a better way, please tell me...

Call
1-866-pcsafety
which is:
1-866-727-23389

then press:
2
then
1

and talk to the guy there...
wng]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13802435 Sun, 03 Jul 2005 01:31:46 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13802358 wng_z3r0 : Jane, can't you do something about this? I mean, I know you do so much already :D

but don't you MVP types have a bit more power, say, and connections than us minions? Perhaps if all the MVP's made a stink about this, something might happen?

wng]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13802358 Sun, 03 Jul 2005 01:12:23 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13802012 mers2 :

said by jmorlan

:

Hmm. Maybe this wasn't satire after all.

Microsoft Purchases Evil from Satan

»bbspot.com/News/2000/4/MS_Buys_Evil.html

LOL. I forgot about that one. :)
--
God put me on this Earth to accomplish a certain number of things. Right now, I am so far behind I will never die. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13802012 Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:09:34 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13801989 jmorlan : Hmm. Maybe this wasn't satire after all.

Microsoft Purchases Evil from Satan

»bbspot.com/News/2000/4/MS_Buys_Evil.html]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13801989 Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:07:31 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13801433 Shriyash : i think now we really should be asking the types of questions that dantz has put forward.

just seeing the screenshot, and reading the words "Adaware" & " Software Bundler" that eburger68 posted set off alarm-bells in my head.

it reminded me of a time that i'd rather forget, a time when my pc was invaded by malware described along the very same lines as it is now described my M$A$.

and to think that they are recommending that their trusting millions of users 'ignore' it? grr, it makes me angry.

so, my question is, how many varieties are there of Claria a.k.a. Gator?
when this deal goes thru many more will spring up right?{there cant be just the 4 shown in the screenshot.}

and will they possibly hijack our home-pages?
will they create entries in out 'favourites' folders?
and just how many popups are acceptable?{none, in my book}

sure, right now we havent gone overboard with our concerns, because we are assuming{and praying} that microsoft stick with just the popups and textadverts like google.
we are keeping our fingers crossed and saying
"nothing further. thats it. no crossing this line."

do we really trust M$ now, to keep it that way?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13801433 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 22:40:25 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13801373 Allyn_P : Probably everyone here has briefly entertained the thought. But that does not mean the Claria threat assessment downgrade is proper.

Given the flat stock performance of Microsoft, and the nature of Steve Balmer, whom I believe is most interested in enhancing share value, acquiring online advertising technology might be a part of overall strategy for a Google-like service. Such technology would not necessarily be used in an ill manner.

The real issue is Microsoft's downgrade of Claria products. Given that no one here has any sympathy for Claria (and rightfully so), the downgrade simply looks bad.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13801373 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 22:30:29 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13801353 redxii : Plot thickens.

»weblog.infoworld.com/foster/2005/01/07.html
»netrn.net/spywareblog/archives/2···crosoft/

Digged up some old articles, which make mention of Claria.

BBR posts that mentions these URLs:
»Re: Free Microsoft AntiSpyware beta
--
"If you like linux then use it otherwise stop preaching about linux we all already know about it and if we like it we'll use it. If you keep pestering people you look like those annoying Jehovah's witnesses... [..] with nothing better to do."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13801353 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 22:26:28 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13801349 boblandy :

said by DaMaGeINC

:

Did anyone ever think that they are buying the company to shut it down?

that would set a bad precedent for sure
--
look out kid they keep it all hid]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13801349 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 22:26:04 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13801297 mers2 :

said by DaMaGeINC

:

Did anyone ever think that they are buying the company to shut it down?

That possibility was mentioned in the other thread: »Is Microsoft about to buy Claria/Gator ???. What got this thread going was to downgrading of the Claria definitions, which bad enough to begin with, came on the heels of that report.
--
God put me on this Earth to accomplish a certain number of things. Right now, I am so far behind I will never die. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13801297 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 22:16:27 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13801264 DaMaGeINC : Did anyone ever think that they are buying the company to shut it down?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13801264 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 22:11:26 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13801060 Grethor :

said by John2g

:

To play the Devil's Advocate, how many more definitions in MSAS have been downgraded, or even deleted?

No one knows I suspect and it must be impossible, or exceedingly time consuming, to check.

I just write as a bystander: I've never installed MSAS and don't envisage that I will ever need to.

All the more reason to have more than one anti spyware solution.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13801060 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 21:37:09 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13800938 eburger68 : redwolfe_98:

My chart reports what Pest Patrol actually detected, not what Pest Patrol reports on its web site.

In my quickie test, Pest Patrol 5 reported detecting Dashbar, PrecisionTime, and Weatherscope. When I looked at the actual detections, though, all Pest Patrol had detected was a few Registy keys, not the files or folders associated with those applications. I even double-checked the other programs detected just to make sure Pest Patrol hadn't mistakenly categorized the files and folders for those apps under other detections.

In other words, Pest Patrol left the bulk of Dashbar, PrecisionTime, and Weatherscope undetected.

Best,

Eric L. Howes]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13800938 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 21:19:22 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13800814 redwolfe_98 :

said by eburger68

:

To summarize my findings, I've put together a simple table:

»www.spywarewarrior.com/elh/clari···ions.htm

Eric L. Howes

eric, in your chart, you show that "pestpatrol" does not detect "dashbar", "precisiontime", or "weatherscope"..

according to information at the ca website, pestpatrol does (or should) detect all three of those:

»www3.ca.com/securityadvisor/pest···53094083

»www3.ca.com/securityadvisor/pest···53094080

»www3.ca.com/securityadvisor/pest···53094088

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13800814 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 20:57:33 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13800390 SnowyOne :

said by dantz

:

OK, we've had our gut-level reaction. Now we need to get some more facts so we can look at this thing from an informed point of view. I would like to know what the criteria are that Microsoft uses to assign spyware to a particular threat level, and whether or not Claria meets the criteria for the category that it has been placed in.

The benefit of a criteria check list such as lavasofts
»www.lavasoftresearch.com/tac_main.php
are pretty useless considering even things such as a
Lavasoft TAC are themselves left up to interpretation as
shown in this memorable thread.
»ASW Vendors in La-La Land]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13800390 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 19:45:45 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13800248 SnowyOne : CounterSpy just had one of it's uphills battles become history thanks to Microsoft & MSAS. The argument of why pay for CounterSpy when the same basic program can be had for free in the form of MSAS has been neutered.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13800248 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 19:17:05 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13800210 anon : Microsoft provide an operating system that is grew up with and besides the obvious security issues it is pretty good. If microsoft build crap into their OS all that will do is create a Cracking community dedicated to removing the crap IE. Forcing legitamit people underground to protect their own privacy and that of everyone else. Instead of everyone here working WITH the Microsoft to create security, their is a risk that people will be forced to "Break the law" to protect their privacy. I do not approve of breaking the law, or cracking but what other choices will their be if you cannot remove or disable the crap on your own computer????

I personally , will not break the law and simply move to linux (NOT MAC OS) for my own computer, to protect my privacy.

Microsoft are lacking a long-term view of future possble major ethical problems and wars that can be very easily avoided, and will the war in the long term cost more then the packet of money they will get in the short term.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13800210 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 19:11:16 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13800141 Spy : I dumped MSAS. It hasn't found anything ever since I've downloaded it anyway. See ya later, Gator.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13800141 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 18:56:47 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13800076 dantz : OK, we've had our gut-level reaction. Now we need to get some more facts so we can look at this thing from an informed point of view. I would like to know what the criteria are that Microsoft uses to assign spyware to a particular threat level, and whether or not Claria meets the criteria for the category that it has been placed in.

It would be nice to hear from somebody on the inside, but lacking that we can start out by making some educated guesses. Here's my criteria list:

1) Is the installation done openly and without deception?

2) Are users clearly informed about the nature of the software they are about to install?

3) Does the software have any harmful effects, aside from its clearly stated functions?

4) Can the software be easily and completely uninstalled by the user if desired?

Obviously, the threat level could be reduced for software that met most or all of the above criteria. This is just an example, of course. Does anybody know what criteria Microsoft actually uses to categorize threat levels? Or is this information even knowable? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13800076 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 18:44:15 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13799576 John2g : In your dreams :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13799576 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 17:13:58 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13799533 mers2 :

said by John2g

:

To play the Devil's Advocate, how many more definitions in MSAS have been downgraded, or even deleted?

No one knows I suspect and it must be impossible, or exceedingly time consuming, to check.

I just write as a bystander: I've never installed MSAS and don't envisage that I will ever need to.

You raise an excellent question that was raised during the Lavasoft debacle. AFAIK, Spybot is the only AS whose definitions are easily accessed by the user and even then one has to work to compare definitions bases between updates. It would be nice if each update by every vendor contained detailed information on the update, including any definitions that were dropped or changed and the reason for the change.
--
God put me on this Earth to accomplish a certain number of things. Right now, I am so far behind I will never die. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13799533 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 17:04:20 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13799451 John2g : To play the Devil's Advocate, how many more definitions in MSAS have been downgraded, or even deleted?

No one knows I suspect and it must be impossible, or exceedingly time consuming, to check.

I just write as a bystander: I've never installed MSAS and don't envisage that I will ever need to.
--
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13799451 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 16:45:59 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13799423 mers2 :

said by John2g

said by mers2

:

More hearsay.

It is ALL hearsay and speculation.

Which is why I said we'll have to see what the final outcome is. My opinion on the definitions issue will not change however, which is the topic of this thread. As I've said I apply the same standards to any company and have been vocal in the past.
--
God put me on this Earth to accomplish a certain number of things. Right now, I am so far behind I will never die. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13799423 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 16:38:54 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13799396 John2g :

said by mers2

:

More hearsay.

It is ALL hearsay and speculation.
--
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13799396 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 16:34:01 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13799388 mers2 : More hearsay. We'll have to see what the final outcome is. I still disagree with MS's decision to lower the definitions on Claria. It does go the heart of their credibility as an anti-spyware vendor. I've been vocal when other vendors have caved and I'll be vocal even it's MS.
--
God put me on this Earth to accomplish a certain number of things. Right now, I am so far behind I will never die. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13799388 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 16:32:15 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13799362 John2g : »www.siliconbeat.com/entries/2005···ost.html

Quote:

We were checking out a rumor that Microsoft was interested in buying Claria, the Redwood City adware/spyware company. We were incredulous that Microsoft would make such a controversial move, but we put in a few calls nevertheless. Magdalena Yesil, a partner at US Venture Partners, and board member at Claria, got back to us. She said she'd asked Claria CEO Jeff McFadden about it for us, and that he told her there is no substance to the rumor.
--
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13799362 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 16:27:35 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13799334 mers2 :

said by John2g

said by mers2

:

Not to mention the fact that MS is touting it's anti-spyware while doing negotiations with a spyware company and lowering it's detections in the process.

Talk about non sequitors. Did you read this, posted by Eric earlier?

"Sunbelt is now reporting that the Claria detections appear to have been "downgraded" as far back as March 31."

Yes, but it is unknown how long MS has been in negotiations with Claria. Also, I've been vocal about other anti-spyware vendors lowering or removing definitions without a proven change of behavior. MS was wrong in either event.
--
God put me on this Earth to accomplish a certain number of things. Right now, I am so far behind I will never die. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13799334 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 16:22:37 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13799318 John2g :

said by mers2

:

Not to mention the fact that MS is touting it's anti-spyware while doing negotiations with a spyware company and lowering it's detections in the process.

Talk about non sequitors. Did you read this, posted by Eric earlier?

"Sunbelt is now reporting that the Claria detections appear to have been "downgraded" as far back as March 31."
--
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13799318 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 16:19:40 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13799310 SnowyOne :

said by redxii

:

At this point in time we're also quick to assume that MS is embedding spyware into Windows, when it looks like they want to compete with Google with their MSN search.

re these 2 different points of view, one opinion doesn't have to be wrong to prove the other correct. I believe both of these opinions will prove out to be true in some form or another.

said by redxii

:

I guess i'm just pointing out this broad inconsistency with human behavior.

Actually I think you are pointing out the consistencies of human behavior...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13799310 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 16:18:38 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13799277 mers2 :

said by redxii

:

I guess i'm just pointing out this broad inconsistency with human behavior. Since NYT is such an honored source:

"Ballmer, according to the person briefed on the talks, has been pushing Yusuf Mehdi, the senior vice president in charge of MSN and Microsoft's search business, to be more aggressive to try to catch up with Google, with acquisitions as one possibility. Ballmer, this person said, gave approval to begin talks with Claria two weeks ago."

If it were just competition with no unethical behavior involved I'd be all for it. You seem to be missing the point - Claria is a known malware company known for drive by downloads on unsuspecting users, collecting detailed information on individual users, forcing intrusive ads of users all while using software that degrades or damages the users computer. Google has done none of these. The disappointment and anger in this thread comes from the fact that Microsoft is apparently negotiating a deal with the very company that has caused damage to their users. Not to mention the fact that MS is touting it's anti-spyware while doing negotiations with a spyware company and lowering it's detections in th process. There is the hypocrisy. The problem with the MS bashing crowd being so vocal is that when there is a genuine problem those that have spent a lot of time defending it can't see when real problems emerge.
--
God put me on this Earth to accomplish a certain number of things. Right now, I am so far behind I will never die. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13799277 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 16:12:40 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13799252 SweetDelight : I just ran it, purposly infesting myself, and it told to " IGNORE" WhenU.SaveNow

Gah, Why does microsoft need to go their shallowness, they make billions a year. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13799252 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 16:07:17 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13799193 catseyenu : All I'm assuming is MS has sent the wrong message to the security community, users and worst of all to the bastards that exploit all of us.
--
Need A Software Solution? List of Lists]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13799193 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 15:58:08 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13799180 redxii :

said by SnowyOne

:

at this point in time.

At this point in time we're also quick to assume that MS is embedding spyware into Windows, when it looks like they want to compete with Google with their MSN search. People will still pound on Microsoft for their search engine for collecting information using patents obtained through this Claria purchase (even if it stays on their site) yet they won't pound on other search engines for collecting information.

I guess i'm just pointing out this broad inconsistency with human behavior. Since NYT is such an honored source:

"Ballmer, according to the person briefed on the talks, has been pushing Yusuf Mehdi, the senior vice president in charge of MSN and Microsoft's search business, to be more aggressive to try to catch up with Google, with acquisitions as one possibility. Ballmer, this person said, gave approval to begin talks with Claria two weeks ago."
--
"If you like linux then use it otherwise stop preaching about linux we all already know about it and if we like it we'll use it. If you keep pestering people you look like those annoying Jehovah's witnesses... [..] with nothing better to do."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13799180 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 15:55:39 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13799105 SnowyOne :

said by redxii

:

Exactly! So why haven't we boycotted Google then?!?! It's the default search engine for Firefox. Talk about hypocrisy.

Let's not forget that Google ads only appear on either Goggles property or property that has given Google explicit rights to display Google ads.If you're going to boycott Google because of Google ads why not also boycott the properties that have partnered with Google to display Google ads, this site included? There is no fair comparison between Google ads & Claria at this point in time.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13799105 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 15:41:41 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13798958 antiserious :

said by redxii

:

Exactly! So why haven't we boycotted Google then?!?! It's the default search engine for Firefox. Talk about hypocrisy.

... has Google ever been identified as spyware by any product, as Gator has? ... I know of no instance where Google tried to install anything on a user's computer without their consent ...

--
... "Nobody's perfect - well, there was this one guy, but we killed Him" ... Christopher Moore, 'Lamb' ...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13798958 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 15:22:09 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13798956 mers2 :

said by redxii

:

Exactly! So why haven't we boycotted Google then?!?! It's the default search engine for Firefox. Talk about hypocrisy.

As far as I know Google hasn't resorted to "drive by" downloads like Claria to get tracking software on people's computers. Google doesn't continually place pop ups on your desktop, nor does it do the extensive individual tracking that Claria does. You're kind of reaching there.
--
God put me on this Earth to accomplish a certain number of things. Right now, I am so far behind I will never die.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13798956 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 15:21:57 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13798904 salzan :

said by jhh

:

My question is, what if the worst case scenerio comes true, and MS begins releasing products with gator built in?

I think if MS really wanted to go this route, they wouldn't need to buy Claria. They could just push an update that included any nefarious code they wanted.

IMO it's not the code they're after, they can figure that out. What they want are any patents or copyrights.

The search engine upgrade theory seems plausible to me.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13798904 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 15:14:30 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13798780 redxii : Exactly! So why haven't we boycotted Google then?!?! It's the default search engine for Firefox. Talk about hypocrisy.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13798780 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 14:56:24 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13798427 John2g : From "The Register" 01 July 2005

In practice, Claria's software performs exactly the same role with data as Yahoo! and Google's advertising programs which identify the contents of a page before injecting text ads. Unlike Claria, Google's CEO Eric Schmidt has vowed to develop "a Google that knows more about you." Unlike Microsoft, no one seems to mind about the text ads: for none dare call it spyware.
--
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13798427 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 13:51:29 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13798400 anon : I understand everyones dismay over this situation but; What if Microsoft is buying Claria to make a better anti spyware app, to see what its code is etc., or to take this company out of the spyware business. Possibility??????????]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13798400 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 13:45:11 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13798254 jhh : My question is, what if the worst case scenerio comes true, and MS begins releasing products with gator built in?

Will this finally be the death of MS, after years of complaining about their practices, or will we continue buying this crap?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13798254 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 13:14:06 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13798023 eburger68 : Hi All:

Sunbelt has updated its blog entry:

»sunbeltblog.blogspot.com/2005/07···ore.html

Sunbelt is now reporting that the Claria detections appear to have been "downgraded" as far back as March 31.

Best,

Eric L. Howes]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13798023 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 12:28:39 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13797712 antiserious :
... wow, talk about shooting yourself in the foot ...

... in the protection business, credibility and integrity are everything ... your customers have to believe you're looking out for their best interests, not some agenda of your own ... this maneuver has shaken the faith of some well-respected, level-headed people - THAT should concern MS (MS-haters will, of course, jump all over this as we've seen) ... I agree that it's not QUITE as bad as removing the detection completely, but as has been said before, many people will blindly follow the recommendations without another thought ...

... from a company that many people love to hate, whose motives are often suspect, it's a glaring misstep and a bad, BAD move ... and isn't it ironic that a product using a bulls-eye as it's icon has now placed one squarely on its' owner's credibility ...

... thanks once again, Eric and company, for all that you do to keep us informed ...

--
... "Nobody's perfect - well, there was this one guy, but we killed Him" ... Christopher Moore, 'Lamb' ...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13797712 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 11:31:27 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13797412 hayc59 : Thank You Eric,Donna,Suzi and Ben!! ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13797412 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 10:50:06 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13797356 Bobby_Peru : Hi Eric:

Perhaps it's time to add a prominent category to anti-crapware application evaluations, along the lines of the following (pre-morning legal liquid beverages):

"Provides an easily accessible clear, concise listing of what crapware is detected and each respective 'recommendation', along with any {-insert reasonable disclosure of 'appearance of influences' language} both 1) prior to installation, and also 2) from _with-in_ the application, once installed.

Both of these notifications include an accurate, up-to-date time/date stamped change-log, noting any and all modifications to the detection and/or notice and/or recommendations.

This application also provides express notification of modifications, in clear and concise form to the user, at each 1) "update", 2) "upgrade" or 3) any other modification to either the application itself, and/or it's detection and/or notification functions, any and all detection and/or notice additions, deletions, and/or 'threat' notice and/or recommendations, categorizations, labellings".

Most of this information is obviously known to the vendor, and it wouldn't take much effort on their part to provide it, if they wanted to.

Perhaps all applications will fail this "test" now, but, _maybe_ it will move those very few that are actually reputable, honest, trustworthy and ethical towards compliance.

There are more than a few folks who seem to believe that anything and everything one does is fair game, no, their Deity/Constitutional right, for them to monitor, track, aggregate, analyze and somehow profit from; that we are nothing but "consumers", and no-matter whether 'chicken-little" is squawking, or not, they will do this, just as quickly, deeply and completely, as people permit them.

The advent of wide-spread home computer usage, combined with the Web, is a wet dream to these folks, but one they are tirelessly working at consummating. To them, your computer is simply something to be mined as a tool for their better, more effective and efficient overt and covert exploitation of you.

While it may be true that some applications that would/will fail such a reasonable disclosure test, still are of some value as tools for some combination of prevention, detection and/or removal, putting trust in them once one has knowledge of the sad history in this area, seems misplaced, very risky, and even negligent, and reckless.

Those that fail (free or not), can, and should, be safely tossed into the similar category of "crapware" that they are, or will become.

[edit: This is of course mostly to help those that do not track these issues on a daily basis; the vast super-majority of users; the very ones who most need the protection that they think they are getting when they rely on these anti-crapware applications. It is time to put the burden on the vendors to provide meaningful express notice of their own detection / recommendation changes.]

OT: Informed GMailers, and GDesktop Search users will have _no_ _one_ (mostly) but themselves to blame, should (when?) the temptation to exploit these two incredible detailed, deep and wide resources of the totality of current "consumer" digital "life", likewise prove too great for holy Google.

--
**~~Infected/Hijacked? FAQ~~~Protect/Secure Your Box/Data FAQ~~~Security Forum FAQs~~**]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13797356 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 10:37:47 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13797271 jbob : Well after reading this whole thread perhaps many are jumping the gun, so to speak. Do not consider this MS support but we have seen similar stuff from other anti spyware vendors as well. Look at how Spybot handles it's default detections of CDilla, New.net and a few others. They are excluded by default but all it takes is to uncheck a block to include them. Boclean even changed it's default settings for detection of Netbus because of a lawsuit. The recent change of Ad-Aware's handling of Hotbar(or was it When-U) was more of a problem because they simply dropped detection all together. Good thing they added it back. At least MS still has the option for the user to decide and it still detects Claria products.

Is this a wave of things to come? Perhaps. I've just read where new versions of CWShredder now come with some interesting changes too.

Basically all the major players seem to have some issues in the way they handle questionable spyware/adware. I will agree MS is the big boy on the block though and it would be bad to see them become subverted by business practices. Ooops did I say that? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13797271 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 10:23:16 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13796848 Allyn_P : This is indeed a troubling development.

Microsoft's de-rating of Claria's software is hard to grasp. Privacy issues aside, Gator/Claria caused much harm to Microsoft's products over the years. My estimate is that near the turn of the century, thirty percent of all computer service calls were related to Claria's ubiquitous software, which was significantly slowing Windows 9x systems worldwide.

Only with the arrivals of Ad-Aware and Spybot Search and Destroy was hope restored. To the best of my knowledge, they were the only applications of the time that could successfully remove all traces of Gator from infected systems.

In my repeated tests of Claria's bundle several months ago, Windows 98 SE was permanently damaged to the point of requiring re-imaging to restore reliable operation. This occurred with and without other malware installed and uninstalled. I have not evaluated the bundle on Windows XP.

For Microsoft to consider using Claria technology to "pursue Google" suggests there is real trouble in Redmond. And at this point, I wonder just how well Gates and Balmer are getting along.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13796848 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 08:47:57 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13796703 Coxsupport : Gee, MS Anti-spy isn't the only game in town.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13796703 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 08:04:02 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13796623 GercekSeytan :

said by Defcon888

said by CalamityJane

:

Microsoft, this is just bad! :(

Another disappointed MVP. We're into fighting spyware, not joining it

Bad move :thumbsdown:

I bet the public will lose their trust in Microsoft Antispyware before it even comes out of beta :D:p

I am going to give MS the benefit of the doubt same as I did with AdAware. On the other hand, I will be following every thread I can about this subject. MS now has to prove itself, the same as AdAware did, as far as I am concerned.
--
"It is the black heart of Islam, not the black face, to which millions object." Will Cummins: »www.sport.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13796623 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 07:46:14 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13796530 NYR11 : This is just ponderous.
We are all doomed:huh:
--
"It's a nice day if you wake up in Disneyland"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13796530 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 07:01:08 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13796518 haroldo : While the other scanners still detect Claria, couldn't Microsoft build the technology into their system (like IE is built in) rendering it unremovable?
What about the legal consequences? Will Microsoft sit by and allow a scanner to remove their software from their operating system?
On the positive side, wont Microsoft adjust the product to make it consumer friendly by including clear instructions to install or remove it or opt out provisions.
I can't imagine the, as a responsible corporate citizen, wont change the product to make it more consumer oriented, in the same way as the new Napster has become a responsible product.
Just my opinions (which usually are wrong!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13796518 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 06:50:35 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13795956 Mowergun : This just letting my imagination run wild with me. What if at some time in the future, after having been seduced by the dark side, Microsoft begins threatening legal action against security software vendors who's products detect the software of Microsoft's subsidiary, Claria, as malware?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13795956 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 02:37:00 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13795945 eburger68 : Hi All:

Having down some testing with archived copies of earlier Microsoft AntiSpywre definitions, I can confirm that the Claria detections were downgraded at the latest by June 2 (#5723).

I can also say that the major commercial anti-spyware applications all detect Claria's applications at this time.

To summarize my findings, I've put together a simple table:

»www.spywarewarrior.com/elh/clari···ions.htm

Best,

Eric L. Howes]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13795945 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 02:33:24 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13795719 redxii :

said by SanJoseNerd

:

But if the Claria deal goes through, I'm gone to Linux.

Show me, wise one, where any article states that they are putting spyware into Windows if the deal goes through.

How do you know they aren't using it for their search engine? By the [many] articles it seems as if they are very eager to compete with Google.

Oh sure I can switch to Linux too, but that's too bad it won't play all my games and other applications. That means I will be dual booting Linux and Windows, if anything.
--
"If you like linux then use it otherwise stop preaching about linux we all already know about it and if we like it we'll use it. If you keep pestering people you look like those annoying Jehovah's witnesses... [..] with nothing better to do."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13795719 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 01:31:11 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13795693 CrzyCrakr : The future looks bright for Mac and Linux]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13795693 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 01:25:29 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13795641 SanJoseNerd : Microsoft has spent the last ten years loudly proclaiming its right to bundle anything they want into Windows. If Microsoft buys Claria, doesn't it follow that soon Gator will be bundled right into the guts of Windows where it can't be removed? Turning Windows into a great big adware/spyware platform? I don't see how any other conclusion is possible, given Microsoft's own statements.

I have spent almost my entire career developing software for Microsoft operating systems, from MS-DOS 1.1 to Windows XP. But if the Claria deal goes through, I'm gone to Linux. Microsoft will be just another scummy adware/spyware company. I can't tell you how sick this makes me.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13795641 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 01:15:25 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13795382 eburger68 : Hi All:

Sunbelt is reporting that a quick check of its database updates from Microsoft (which it receives because of an existing agreement between Sunbelt and GIANT before MS purchased GIANT in Dec. 2004) reveals that the Claria detections have been downgraded since at least early June:

»sunbeltblog.blogspot.com/2005/07···ore.html

Best,

Eric L. Howes]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13795382 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 00:28:57 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13795325 David :

said by redxii

said by David

:

I wonder if they are backing off due to legal pressure, but I would think microsoft could squash them.

Glad you brought that up. That's most probable.

»Don't Call Gator 'Spyware'

Companies tend to try to squeeze money out of MS through lawsuits, frivolous or otherwise.

It made sense, I cannot see them backing off for any other reason. after all if claria has sued PCpitstop, why not microsoft? more money for operating capital.
--
If you have a topic in the direct forum please reply to it or a post of mine, I get a notification when you do this. Koetting Ford, Granite City, illinois... YOU'RE FIRED!! ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13795325 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 00:20:20 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13795214 Shriyash :

said by Epyon9283

said by Shriyash

:

i thought that showed that MS did care about its users, and its own reputation.

uhoh. Missed a possible use of $ :P

lol, yeh, didnt notice it, being disgusted and all.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13795214 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 00:05:14 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13795205 catseyenu : Color it gone here. :mad:
PC Linux OS has been running great and I'm about to dump XP.
See ya, Billy boy.
--
Need A Software Solution? List of Lists

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13795205 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 00:04:13 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13795196 redxii :

said by David

:

I wonder if they are backing off due to legal pressure, but I would think microsoft could squash them.

Glad you brought that up. That's most probable.

»Don't Call Gator 'Spyware'

Companies tend to try to squeeze money out of MS through lawsuits, frivolous or otherwise.
--
"If you like linux then use it otherwise stop preaching about linux we all already know about it and if we like it we'll use it. If you keep pestering people you look like those annoying Jehovah's witnesses... [..] with nothing better to do."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13795196 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 00:02:32 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13795184 dandelion : I wonder what the next step will be, not to detect at all?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13795184 Sat, 02 Jul 2005 00:00:49 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13795165 David : I wonder if they are backing off due to legal pressure, but I would think microsoft could squash them. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13795165 Fri, 01 Jul 2005 23:58:41 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13795155 Epyon9283 :

said by Shriyash

:

i thought that showed that MS did care about its users, and its own reputation.

uhoh. Missed a possible use of $ :P]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13795155 Fri, 01 Jul 2005 23:57:38 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13795118 CalamityJane :

said by eburger68

:

Hi All:

We're still looking into Microsoft's detections for Claria. It now appears that the Claria detections may have been downgraded some time ago -- perhaps as long as a month ago.

The dates doesn't matter to me. There is no way to clarify how long they have been in "talks". It's been downgraded - period! Not good!

I'm feeling sick about this!
--
It takes a disaster to make a woman out of a female
Gladiator Security Forum
Proud Member of ASAP (Alliance of Security Analysis Professionals)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13795118 Fri, 01 Jul 2005 23:52:15 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13795091 Shriyash : thanks for making us aware eburger68.
that first screenshot speaks for itself....and i cant believe my eyes.

its the principle of the thing.

i assume M$ did put some programming effort into M$A$, and it worked very well, in my book, was superior in detection rates than Spysweeper.
i liked the fact that M$ kept{and still does} M$A$ free for its users. i thought that showed that MS did care about its users, and its own reputation.
i thought M$ was now on the users side, and that we could finally begin to trust them.

and now, when things were going great,after all these steps forward, they take this 'Giant' step backwards.

didnt they reflect for one second in their boardrooms, how the world would percieve this deal with Gator/Claria?

and what this would do to the trust that was beginning to build back up in them, thanks to the success of M$A$?

but they went ahead anyway.

guess it is all about the money after all.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13795091 Fri, 01 Jul 2005 23:47:45 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13794969 eburger68 : Hi All:

We're still looking into Microsoft's detections for Claria. It now appears that the Claria detections may have been downgraded some time ago -- perhaps as long as a month ago.

The timing is significant, obviously, because of the news regarding the reported talks between Claria and Microsoft. If this change to the default Recommended Action for the Claria detections occurred much earlier than we had initially assumed, then that would put the decision to downgrade in a somewhat different light.

Once I have more information, I'll be back to update you on what we know.

Best,

Eric L. Howes]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13794969 Fri, 01 Jul 2005 23:30:26 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13794927 dantz :

said by salzan

:

Most irritating is that these decisions to remove/downgrade definitions are politically motivated. It has nothing to do with the adware/software in question cleaning up their act or suddenly turning over a new leaf.

I agree, and I am also very disappointed with Microsoft for doing such a thing. The whole situation is just another Hotbar as far as I'm concerned.

The purpose of an antispyware application is to root out deceptive software, but when it the program itself starts to behave in a deceptive manner it becomes a part of the problem.

This whole business of antispyware software giving free passes to "favored/feared" spyware is getting ridiculous. Microsoft, snap out of it! ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13794927 Fri, 01 Jul 2005 23:24:28 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13794904 Defcon888 :

said by CalamityJane

:

Microsoft, this is just bad! :(

Another disappointed MVP. We're into fighting spyware, not joining it

Bad move :thumbsdown:

I bet the public will lose their trust in Microsoft Antispyware before it even comes out of beta :D:p
--
defcon888@gmail.com
.proud user of sbc services
.ppl who call ie a pos are usually too dumb to know how to lock it down =)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13794904 Fri, 01 Jul 2005 23:21:05 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13794853 CalamityJane : Microsoft, this is just bad! :(

Another disappointed MVP. We're into fighting spyware, not joining it

Bad move :thumbsdown:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13794853 Fri, 01 Jul 2005 23:12:56 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13794655 salzan : Most irritating is that these decisions to remove/downgrade definitions are politically motivated. It has nothing to do with the adware/software in question cleaning up their act or suddenly turning over a new leaf. I may not be able to control many of the political annoyances in my day to day life but I can certainly control what's installed on my computer. If I get uncomfortable (as in the case of Lavasoft) the software just goes away.

It is too bad that the anti-spyware sector is increasingly infected with this disease. :(]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13794655 Fri, 01 Jul 2005 22:41:43 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13794638 Defcon888 : Do I smell lava[soft]?

As long as MSAS still detects it.. and gives me the option to remove it.. then it should be fine.. if Microsoft decides to NOT detect it.. then this is a little different...

I can't believe Microsoft is having such deals with such a shady company as Gator.
--
defcon888@gmail.com
.proud user of sbc services
.ppl who call ie a pos are usually too dumb to know how to lock it down =)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13794638 Fri, 01 Jul 2005 22:40:13 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13794618 mers2 :

said by redxii

said by Chris 313

:

I only HOPE that CS doesn't weaken because of a Spyware company offering money, or a spyware company buyout like MS is probably doing.

EDIT: I see where you're going.

At least they didn't silently remove Claria detections

This is true and they are definitely above Lavasoft on that count. But you have Microsoft, a trusted entity, telling it's users that Claria/Gator is not a threat. Most of those users are uninformed and will allow it to stay on their machines because MS says it's ok. All because MS is in a potential business deal with a known malware company.
--
God put me on this Earth to accomplish a certain number of things. Right now, I am so far behind I will never die. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13794618 Fri, 01 Jul 2005 22:37:31 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13794584 Chris 313 :

said by redxii

said by Chris 313

:

I only HOPE that CS doesn't weaken because of a Spyware company offering money, or a spyware company buyout like MS is probably doing.

EDIT: I see where you're going.

At least they didn't silently remove Claria detections

:) They didn't remove Claria detection, they "downgraded" it.

If I used MSAS and came upon Claria and know about this site and it's info, I'd immediately switch Ignore to REMOVE.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13794584 Fri, 01 Jul 2005 22:32:52 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13794530 redxii :

said by Chris 313

:

I only HOPE that CS doesn't weaken because of a Spyware company offering money, or a spyware company buyout like MS is probably doing.

EDIT: I see where you're going.

At least they didn't silently remove Claria detections--
"If you like linux then use it otherwise stop preaching about linux we all already know about it and if we like it we'll use it. If you keep pestering people you look like those annoying Jehovah's witnesses... [..] with nothing better to do."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13794530 Fri, 01 Jul 2005 22:25:59 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13794506 mers2 :

said by Chris 313

said by mers2

said by Chris 313

:

Hearing this news makes me glad I can't use MSAS and instead am using Counter Spy. Even though MSAS is free, I still like the better detection CS gives me, even if I got to pay yearly for it.

Counterspy is everything MSAS should have been.

I only HOPE that CS doesn't weaken because of a Spyware company offering money, or a spyware company buyout like MS is probably doing.

Considering the people who run Sunbelt software and those who consult for them (including our own Eric Howes) I'd say that possibility is slim to none.
--
God put me on this Earth to accomplish a certain number of things. Right now, I am so far behind I will never die. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13794506 Fri, 01 Jul 2005 22:23:05 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13794453 Chris 313 :

said by mers2

said by Chris 313

:

Hearing this news makes me glad I can't use MSAS and instead am using Counter Spy. Even though MSAS is free, I still like the better detection CS gives me, even if I got to pay yearly for it.

Counterspy is everything MSAS should have been.

I only HOPE that CS doesn't weaken because of a Spyware company offering money, or a spyware company buyout like MS is probably doing.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13794453 Fri, 01 Jul 2005 22:16:47 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13794428 mers2 :

said by Chris 313

:

Hearing this news makes me glad I can't use MSAS and instead am using Counter Spy. Even though MSAS is free, I still like the better detection CS gives me, even if I got to pay yearly for it.

Counterspy is everything MSAS should have been.
--
God put me on this Earth to accomplish a certain number of things. Right now, I am so far behind I will never die. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13794428 Fri, 01 Jul 2005 22:14:16 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13794361 Chris 313 :

said by Mele20

:

This is sad news. I don't think MS will back off. I suggest everyone using MSAS strongly consider getting rid of it and using CounterSpy instead. It is very reasonably priced and PCWorld August 2005 edition says the new beta engine is their product of choice for antispyware applications.

Plus, CounterSpy says this of Claria:

Advice: Remove This is a very high risk threat and should be removed immediately as to prevent harm to your computer or your privacy.
»research.sunbelt-software.com/th···h=Claria

Hearing this news makes me glad I can't use MSAS and instead am using Counter Spy. Even though MSAS is free, I still like the better detection CS gives me, even if I got to pay yearly for it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13794361 Fri, 01 Jul 2005 22:07:22 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13794346 BillRoland : While I agree with the majority that this is a disappointment, I think it bears remembering that Ad-Aware simply quit detecting WhenU, MSAS still detects Claria, just assigns is a lower threat score. Still not good, but not quite apples to apples.
--
"Don't steal. The government hates competition."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13794346 Fri, 01 Jul 2005 22:05:29 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13794329 Doctor Four : When the Lavasoft/WhenU debacle was the hot topic in this
forum, I uninstalled my copy of AdAware and removed all
installers permanently.

I am about to do the same with Microsoft Anti Spyware. And
I (and many others) thought they could be trusted.

Edit: having read one of the above posts, I am strongly
considering purchasing Sunbelt Counter Spy now.
--
"Kayura or Badamon, whichever you are, you should know that I will never give up this battle. By the will of the Ancient, I shall succeed!" - Shuten (Anubis) from the Ronin Warriors.
To RIAA/MPAA - You can sue but you can't catch everyone!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13794329 Fri, 01 Jul 2005 22:03:24 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13793941 mers2 :

said by redxii

said by mers2

:

It looks like the suspicions of many are being confirmed.

Ad-Aware caught heck for quietly dropping WhenU. Microsoft appears to be dropping Claria/Gator from being quarentined/deleted for the money, not that the threat has changed. I hold the same standard to Microsoft that I do to other companies. I was vocal about Lavasoft's actions previously and if MS continues to go down an ethically challenged path I will also be vocal. It's not just pop ups or ads that bother me - it's the tracking technology and the existing database of information that may be put into use by MS. While I was going to give them the benefit of the doubt, this certainly tips the odds that they aren't going to do the right thing.
--
God put me on this Earth to accomplish a certain number of things. Right now, I am so far behind I will never die. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13793941 Fri, 01 Jul 2005 21:18:23 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13793714 redxii :

said by mers2

:

It looks like the suspicions of many are being confirmed.

Embedding ads and pop-ups into Windows? That is the suspicision of "many". We all know that Microsoft can't get away with that, if not for long.

I think the problem is overstated, fanboys looking for a rush.

»www.siliconbeat.com/
»www.perfected.org/archives/2005/···azy-but/

»www.benedelman.org/news/063005-1.html
"The Times says Microsoft's Ballmer wants to be "more aggressive" in pursuing Google."
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"If you like linux then use it otherwise stop preaching about linux we all already know about it and if we like it we'll use it. If you keep pestering people you look like those annoying Jehovah's witnesses... [..] with nothing better to do."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13793714 Fri, 01 Jul 2005 20:45:13 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13793604 Mele20 : This is sad news. I don't think MS will back off. I suggest everyone using MSAS strongly consider getting rid of it and using CounterSpy instead. It is very reasonably priced and PCWorld August 2005 edition says the new beta engine is their product of choice for antispyware applications.

Plus, CounterSpy says this of Claria:

Advice: Remove This is a very high risk threat and should be removed immediately as to prevent harm to your computer or your privacy.
»research.sunbelt-software.com/th···h=Claria
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Around 2005 a sudden spark will catalyze a Crisis mood. The very survival of the nation will seem to be at stake.Sometime before 2025, America will pass through a great gate in history. The risk and promise will be very high. The Fourth Turning Wm. Straus]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13793604 Fri, 01 Jul 2005 20:29:29 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13793547 MapleLeaf :

said by B

:

1. The eternal vigilance of people like Eric, along with the trusty sensationalism of the media and the blogs, will cause MS to retreat from its current course.

2. The Claria deal will never take place.

I am afraid there is too much money at stake here for them to back off...
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Remember, I'm pulling for you - we are all in this together...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13793547 Fri, 01 Jul 2005 20:20:37 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13793506 B : I guess this has the nice silver lining of keeping the other antispyware companies in business after all.

My predictions:

1. The eternal vigilance of people like Eric, along with the trusty sensationalism of the media and the blogs, will cause MS to retreat from its current course.

2. The Claria deal will never take place.

3. In a year or so MS AntiSpyware will fall into the same dustbin where they left MS AntiVirus in the 80s, with no real updates and disillusioned users.

4. The pollyannish MS supporters will somehow claim it's all for our own good.

5. TCPA will render some of this nonsense moot (for better and for worse).

6. The AV companies will finally get off their fat asses and start handling the spyware problem properly.

I'm going out on a limb on that last one.

The time frame here is approximately 2 years.

-- B
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In a realm outside causality and function]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13793506 Fri, 01 Jul 2005 20:14:15 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13793488 richter35 : I guess we're one step closer making purchase official. Yes, you can still change it, but having MSAS highly recommended on most security forums could have vast impact on Claria not being removed with MSAS for users who are not aware this change. However, since this has just happened today, we can hope more users become aware of how MSAS handles Claria/Gator by default.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13793488 Fri, 01 Jul 2005 20:09:13 EDT Re: MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13793461 mers2 : It looks like the suspicions of many are being confirmed. This is a sad day for users of Microsoft. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13793461 Fri, 01 Jul 2005 20:04:48 EDT MS Downgrades Claria Detections http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13793423 eburger68 : Hi All:

Several sources have now confirmed that Microsoft downgraded its detections of Claria's adware products in the latest update (#5731) to Microsoft AntiSpyware released today. Where Microsoft AntiSpyware used to detect Claria's products and present users with a "Recommended Action" of "Quarantine," following today's update Microsoft AntiSpyware now presents users with a "Recommended Action" of "Ignore" (see attached screenshot). Users can still change the action to "Quarantine" or "Remove."

While Claria's products have not been removed from the Microsoft AntiSpyware definitions, this change is troubling, coming so close on the heels of the revelation that Microsoft has been in talks with Claria to acquire the company:

»Is Microsoft about to buy Claria/Gator ???

Credit goes to Donna of "Calendar of Updates" ( »www.dozleng.com/updates/index.ph···pic=5570 ), Ben Edelman ( »www.benedelman.org/news/063005-1.html ), and Suzi of Spyware Warrior for testing and confirming this find.

Best,

Eric L. Howes

Note: as discussed later in this thread, it now appears that the Claria detections were "downgraded" much earlier than the 7/1 update (#5731) -- at the very least by 6/2 (#5723).

Edit: Full Disclosure - since Nov. of 2004 I have performed consulting work for Sunbelt Software, the makers of the CounterSpy anti-spyware application. In Jan. 2004 I was awarded the Microsoft Most Valued Professional Award (MVP) for my work on privacy and security issues.

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13793423 Fri, 01 Jul 2005 19:58:13 EDT