| To the Ham radio backers. Try getting over it. Even assuming that the interference issue is real--which I've seen no solid evidence of--BPL technology is simply more valuable than Ham radio.
Sorry, but sooner or later old technologies die out, and you'll no longer be able to drive your horse and buggy on the interstate highway. If your argument is "This is the way it was before," then I'd have to point out that progress doesn't work that way. Show me a real, tangible benefit that Ham radio provides to modern society, on the level of broadband internet.
Yes, BPL may not be practical, yet. But this is first generation technology, and will certainly never be practical if it gets killed for the dubious benefit of a technology that the internet itself rendered largely obsolete years ago. |
|
 koitsuPremium,MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
kudos:14 | Sorry, I consider HAM much more benefitial than BPL.
I am also an advocate of "out with the old, in with the new" mentality -- old technologies should be deprecated and eventually phased out. So don't think for a moment that I'm one of those anti-BPL people.
I simply refuse to accept technologies that emit so much interference that they destroy something we rely on heavily, including for emergency situations.
HAM needs to stay, and BPL needs to go -- or better yet, be re-invented with proper shielding. Oh wait, no can do, since that'd require re-running power lines and yadda yadda... Guess that pretty much sums it up then. 
--
Making life hard for others since 1977. In memory of 2005... |
|
| reply to FightingBlue
Example hurricane Dennis and affected areas.
Power is expected to be out a few weeks.Oh cell phones that's right.IF the towers are still standing.Until all communications are restored.Major relief efforts from the beginning will be conducted by Ham's.Like it or not.There's a working example.And no I do not own ham radio equipment.It's about time i did. |
|
|
|
| Hams use electricity too. Granted, there are models that run on batteries, but there are phones that use satellites.
For every reason you come up with for Hams, someone can come up with just as good a reason to get rid of them. |
|
Reviews:
 ·Charter
| reply to guitarzan
You know the chance of a cell tower going out?? Cell towers are meant to take hurricane strength winds, direct lightning hits, tornado's, etc. Heck one here in St.Louis was hit by a small plane and worked fine after that. All cell towers have backup gens for electric anyways.
Point is this: You don't need HAM radio at ALL in developed countries. It has its place in other places but not in the US, to many other backups to void it out.
Heck even major goverment use sat phones for emergency needs anyways, pretty much puts HAM out of the picture. |
|
N3EVL
join:2004-12-13
Shrewsbury, MA | reply to Its Me Again
Interesting...it used to be the BPL proponents claim that there was no interference then we sidestepped to claims of having somehow magically eliminated the interference and now we've degenerated to making half-baked excuses for "getting rid of" those who would be affected by the interference. Sad, very sad. |
|
| reply to markopoleo
said by markopoleo:Point is this: You don't need HAM radio at ALL in developed countries. It has its place in other places but not in the US, to many other backups to void it out. The death of Ham will not happen and you know it
la la la
I'm buying a Ham right now  |
|
| reply to markopoleo
said by markopoleo:You know the chance of a cell tower going out?? Cell towers are meant to take hurricane strength winds, direct lightning hits, tornado's, etc. Heck one here in St.Louis was hit by a small plane and worked fine after that. All cell towers have backup gens for electric anyways.
Does no good when the rest of the infrastructure is damaged plus the call volume will be SEVERLY reduced. said by markopoleo:Point is this: You don't need HAM radio at ALL in developed countries. It has its place in other places but not in the US, to many other backups to void it out.
Yes, you do since the underdeveloped countries need to talk to a developed country that has communications in place to relay the information needed. said by markopoleo:Heck even major government use sat phones for emergency needs anyways, pretty much puts HAM out of the picture. Not in all cases. Again, cost is a real issue along with call volume. Plus, sat phones have no broadcast capability while radios do. Now go find that proof where Europe uses DC power instead of AC like the US and the rest of the world. |
|
| reply to FightingBlue
said by FightingBlue:
Try getting over it. Even assuming that the interference issue is real--which I've seen no solid evidence of--BPL technology is simply more valuable than Ham radio. Even the FCC acknowledges there is interference in their rule making by banning BPL in certain areas. There is proof and it has been shown here before.
said by FightingBlue:
Sorry, but sooner or later old technologies die out, and you'll no longer be able to drive your horse and buggy on the interstate highway. If your argument is "This is the way it was before," then I'd have to point out that progress doesn't work that way. Show me a real, tangible benefit that Ham radio provides to modern society, on the level of broadband internet. BPL is old tech. It was tried in Europe and Asia before here and failed already. Most systems were shut down due to interference and other issues.
As for Ham radio being a benefit, do a search, I have presented article after article on the benefits.
said by FightingBlue:
Yes, BPL may not be practical, yet. But this is first generation technology, and will certainly never be practical if it gets killed for the dubious benefit of a technology that the internet itself rendered largely obsolete years ago.
Again, this is not first gen tech. This is beyond that. It is crap shined up and presented on a silver platter. |
|
| reply to N3EVL
You are just whining because you have sunk so much money into your hobby & it is going to be taken away from you. I couldn’t care less if we have HAMS or not. I live where I can get broadband, so this is not going to affect me.
If you really want to whine, you should focus your attention towards the Supreme Court. Their recent ruling on the power of eminent domain will probably doom you Hammys. If enough tests are deemed successes, the FCC will take steps to re-aquire the bandwidth from you, if you havent already abandoned it from the interference you say will result. |
|
| reply to markopoleo
said by markopoleo:You know the chance of a cell tower going out?? Cell towers are meant to take hurricane strength winds, direct lightning hits, tornado's, etc. Heck one here in St.Louis was hit by a small plane and worked fine after that. All cell towers have backup gens for electric anyways. LOL
Most cell sites run on telco facilities for backhaul these days. A Yugo can take down a cellsite by hitting the right pole. And once again you confuse infrastructureless worldwide wireless communications with what cellphones and satellites provide. |
|
| reply to moonpuppy
MoonPuppy why dont you goto Potomac Maryland and find some interference complaints from that trial. I dont believe there are any. And I personally installed two hams in that network. Its only 20 miles away EC. |
|
N3EVL
join:2004-12-13
Shrewsbury, MA | reply to Its Me Again
Wrong. As a USER of the HF spectrum (as opposed to an incidental polluter) I have a better appreciation of the benefit this unique resource provides to the community as a whole. While the amateur frequency allocations are of direct import to me, I also embrace the big picture which includes the other ~90% of the spectrum affected by HF BPL and the services that would be affected and which you so readily dismiss in your greed for bandwidth at any price. |
|
| reply to bplboy
There isn't any because they notched the HAM bands.
»www.remote.arrl.org/announce/reg···it-e.pdf
Though some was measured, it is below allowable Part 15 rules.
But, if you read the last line of the above report, you would have seen this:
quote:
Since the amateur radio are notched, the interference is lower there than outside the notched frequency bands. The BPL interference observed in testing outside the notches could be troublesome for reception of international shortwave broadcasting and other HF signals.
Translation:
There is interference and we are masking it right now. You can only notch so much.
However, this is going to cause a problem. Maryland State Police still use frequencies in the 39Mhz area which is affected by BPL. Hope those are notched out. Hopefully, they won't also affect military communications which could be close by too. |
|
| reply to FightingBlue
said by FightingBlue:
Try getting over it. Even assuming that the interference issue is real--which I've seen no solid evidence of--BPL technology is simply more valuable than Ham radio. You won't find evidence unless you bother to look. A good place to start is the ARRL pages on the topic. The video and audio recordings found here are particularly informative, since they document the interference generated by several of the "successful" BPL trials, such as Manassas VA and Briarcliff Manor NY.
Sorry, but sooner or later old technologies die out, and you'll no longer be able to drive your horse and buggy on the interstate highway. If your argument is "This is the way it was before," then I'd have to point out that progress doesn't work that way. Show me a real, tangible benefit that Ham radio provides to modern society, on the level of broadband internet. Did the Emergency Services operations of the counties in the paths of Cindy and Dennis activate their local Internet users, or did they call the Amateur Radio Emergency Services (ARES)?
Yes, BPL may not be practical, yet. But this is first generation technology, and will certainly never be practical if it gets killed for the dubious benefit of a technology that the internet itself rendered largely obsolete years ago.
By the time BPL systems "notch" all the HF/VHF frequencies in use not only by amateur radio, but military, aeronautical, commercial, maritime, and broadcast users, they'll be lucky to be able to provide even 200kbps service. Better the investment be spent developing WiMax and similar technologies for serving rural areas.
KQ3T |
|
| reply to FightingBlue
ham radio is my life/hobby
tell me what tangible benefit that football/baseball provides to modern society ??? |
|
 FLECOMBay Networks FreakPremium
join:2003-03-03
Miami, FL
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| reply to markopoleo
said by markopoleo:You know the chance of a cell tower going out?? Cell towers are meant to take hurricane strength winds, direct lightning hits, tornado's, etc. Heck one here in St.Louis was hit by a small plane and worked fine after that. All cell towers have backup gens for electric anyways. Point is this: You don't need HAM radio at ALL in developed countries. It has its place in other places but not in the US, to many other backups to void it out. Heck even major goverment use sat phones for emergency needs anyways, pretty much puts HAM out of the picture. no, trust me, towers go down... last year during the hurricanes in florida cellular coverage was pretty much nil... after hurricane andrew here there were very few radio towers left standing to even think of putting anything on... even the 2000 ft ch6 tower broke about 100ft up from the base and was completely demolished... they go down
--
BellSouth sucks |
|
| reply to snorpus
quote:
You won't find evidence unless you bother to look. A good place to start is the ARRL pages on the topic. The video and audio recordings found here are particularly informative, since they document the interference generated by several of the "successful" BPL trials, such as Manassas VA and Briarcliff Manor NY.
So let's see, your recommendation for unbiased evidence is the ARRL's propaganda site? No offense intended, but their information is anything but unbiased--to hear them tell it, amateur radio singlehandedly saved the entire Gulf coast from Hurricane Dennis by telling the NHC where the storm was going to go.
I also notice that they're running their tenth annual fundraiser to bring in cash for the "Spectrum Defense Fund."
Of course, an organization would NEVER overhype a threat to bring in monetary donations.
quote:
Did the Emergency Services operations of the counties in the paths of Cindy and Dennis activate their local Internet users, or did they call the Amateur Radio Emergency Services (ARES)?
I don't know, since I'm not dumb enough to live in Mother Nature's weapons testing corridor. But I am willing to bet that they relied far more heavily on long-range mobile radios and cell phones than they ever did on Hams.
quote:
By the time BPL systems "notch" all the HF/VHF frequencies in use not only by amateur radio, but military, aeronautical, commercial, maritime, and broadcast users, they'll be lucky to be able to provide even 200kbps service. Better the investment be spent developing WiMax and similar technologies for serving rural areas.
I'm all for developing WiMax. In fact, I would greatly prefer a wireless solution be available. But it may not work out the way it's claimed to, and even if it does there are still going to be areas that don't get covered. We have every reason to continue developing BPL, in the hopes that one day it will shake the current limitations. My goal is simple: the most connectivity for the most people. Ham doesn't do that.
And for the record, to the people who aren't spoiled by 3, 4, 5 megabit promises by DSL and cable providers, 200 Kbits is a lot. |
|
| reply to rf_engineer
"Infrastructureless" except for little requirements like electricity, plus the problems with 1) almost no one using it, and 2) being able to successfully communicate with who you intended to.
Out of curiousity, do you think that a Yugo is going to hit a LEO comm satellite? True or false--satellite phones are more common than Ham radio equipment; they provide for targeted communications rather than blindly hoping someone hears you; they're more autonomous because they're small, mobile, and battery powered; and they don't require a license and special knowledge to use.
Here's an idea: if you want to exchange banal banter with unknown people represented by cryptic combinations of letters and numbers, use a chat room. |
|
| reply to N3EVL
Answer the question that IMA asked you. How do you justify the idea of Ham radio as an emergency communication conduit when it needs electricity to run? In that respect, cell phones are more reliable, since they're battery powered.
Exactly what "benefits" does the "unique resource" of Ham radio provide? List them, please. |
|
