WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km range in Wireless Service Providers

WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km range in Wireless Service Providers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r14046475 en Mon, 30 Nov 2009 01:42:30 EDT Mon, 30 Nov 2009 01:42:30 EDT Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km rang http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14103261 ike20004 : If you can shell-out the dough, then Navini and like proprietary systems can do it. $300,000.00 for a start!

»www.navini.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14103261 Wed, 10 Aug 2005 13:59:05 EDT Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km rang http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14101776 superdog :

said by DejanCDN

:

OK..let me try a stab at this. Physics of radio propagation don't change for ANY manufacturer. 2.4GHz signal will not go through trees. What Wi-Fi Plus claims is that they can boost what little signal does come through trees and make use of it. Reality is (do a Search on this board), that people's experience with their antennas does not back up their claims.

My point exactly!. Over the years, I have been BS'ed by so many sales reps., and have bought and then promptly sold on ebay, way to many pieces of gear. The long and short of this is just what DejanCDN

said, "Physics of radio propagation don't change for ANY manufacturer". Unless they have God on their engineering staff, nothing new is going to happen in this dept.:D
--
»www.wavecrazy.net Join WISPA today! »www.wispa.org/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14101776 Wed, 10 Aug 2005 10:44:51 EDT Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km rang http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14101715 Seaboogers :

said by superdog

said by bsamarah

:

Agreed.. I realized what a stupid question it was after the post, but I figured it does not hurt to hear another opinion.
Thanks

Basem.

There is no such thing as as a stupid question:D

Actually there is such thing as a "stupid" question it's called:

The UNASKED question!!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14101715 Wed, 10 Aug 2005 10:34:48 EDT Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km rang http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14101348 superdog :

said by bsamarah

:

Agreed.. I realized what a stupid question it was after the post, but I figured it does not hurt to hear another opinion.
Thanks

Basem.

There is no such thing as as a stupid question:D
--
»www.wavecrazy.net Join WISPA today! »www.wispa.org/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14101348 Wed, 10 Aug 2005 09:33:30 EDT Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km rang http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14101300 bsamarah : Agreed.. I realized what a stupid question it was after the post, but I figured it does not hurt to hear another opinion. Thanks for clarification, it is a great idea to think of these as boxes with ethernet ports... Many thanks to all who participated.

Thanks

Basem.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14101300 Wed, 10 Aug 2005 09:21:47 EDT Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km rang http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14100652 DejanCDN : OK..let me try a stab at this. Physics of radio propagation don't change for ANY manufacturer. 2.4GHz signal will not go through trees. What Wi-Fi Plus claims is that they can boost what little signal does come through trees and make use of it. Reality is (do a Search on this board), that people's experience with their antennas does not back up their claims. Considering the physics, it is unlikely that someone will be able to come up with something that does work.

Antennas do not penetrate anything by the way - they pick up signals (if any are present) and amplify them.

Re. how you make use of 900MHz, 2.l4Ghz, 5.8GHz etc in the same network and how you interconnect them, well, that is easy if you draw it. Each device has an Ethernet Port. How do you connect multiple devices with Ethernet ports? With an Ethernet Switch or a Hub. This has nothing to do with which frequency they operate at. On local area network level, all this equipment is a bunch of boxes with Ethernet ports, so treat them that way.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14100652 Wed, 10 Aug 2005 05:46:34 EDT Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km range http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14100175 jlrubia : but wi-fi plus claimed that thier antenna will penetrate trees and concrete walls. what they have claimed are untrue? please give me proof if you have experienced this wi-fi plus antenna and fialed to accomplish your goal.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14100175 Wed, 10 Aug 2005 01:50:59 EDT Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km rang http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14098307 superdog :

said by jlrubia

:

i think i already have the answer to this problem. there is already an obstruction penetrating antenna in the market. kindly please ckeck this link and please give comment if this will solve the trees and concrete walls penetration problem with in 1 to 2 km range. »www.wifi-plus.com/pages/2/index.htm and also read the forum link. »www.wifi-plus.shoppingcartsplus.···7784.htm

Those antennas are worthless, and some have gotten better performance out of good old cheap Superpass antenna.:)
--
»www.wavecrazy.net Join WISPA today! »www.wispa.org/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14098307 Tue, 09 Aug 2005 21:18:16 EDT Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km rang http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14098244 jober :

said by jlrubia

It's sickening the price they charge for those antennas. And if you buy them and then open them up you will see what I mean.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14098244 Tue, 09 Aug 2005 21:10:54 EDT Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km rang http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14098099 DaDogs :

said by jlrubia

No it will not solve the problem. If there was a magic bullet, we would already be using it.
--
Improve your wireless signal!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14098099 Tue, 09 Aug 2005 20:54:45 EDT Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km range http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14098029 jlrubia : i think i already have the answer to this problem. there is already an obstruction penetrating antenna in the market. kindly please ckeck this link and please give comment if this will solve the trees and concrete walls penetration problem with in 1 to 2 km range. »www.wifi-plus.com/pages/2/index.htm and also read the forum link. »www.wifi-plus.shoppingcartsplus.···7784.htm]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14098029 Tue, 09 Aug 2005 20:45:52 EDT Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km range http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14096297 anoclon : in 2.4Ghz, even with a 2 watt amplifier added to a 15dB omni you won't penetrate trees or walls in a radio bigger than a couple of blocks. But with line of sight on both ends, 2 kilometers it's really easy. That's my experience.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14096297 Tue, 09 Aug 2005 17:06:49 EDT Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km rang http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14096157 sbeasley : I'm believe that you would need a couple ethernet cables and a bridge of some sort. I've personally not done this, so don't take my word for it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14096157 Tue, 09 Aug 2005 16:47:30 EDT Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km rang http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14095926 bsamarah : Dude..

This is great information, I am really thakfull. So how can you connect all these frequencies togather? Do you need a specific device of some sort ? I mean if, I use a 900MHz signal to connect a sight but my backhaul is 5.8Ghz or 2.4Ghz then I would need a mediume in between right ? If so what is it? Where can I find it?

Later..

Basem.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14095926 Tue, 09 Aug 2005 16:19:39 EDT Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km rang http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14095652 sbeasley : 1. When he says work together I assume that he meant that they can work at the same time without interfering with one another.

2. Low power AP's don't mean less frequency, you can adjust the power to effectively change the range that an AP has.

3. I explained this in another post so this is a copy, and the answer is: It depends on your location.

The 900 MHz spectrum has a larger fresnel zone than 2.4 GHz, and 2.4 GHz has a larger fresnel zone than 5.8 GHz, meaning that to go a greater distance 2.4 GHz would go farther than 900 MHz, and 5.8 GHz would go farther than 2.4 GHz. All this is given the ground is flat and there are no obstructions, and the CPE and AP's are exactly the same height. A large fresnel zone will contact the ground and other obstructions. A lower frequency will contact these obstructions before the higher frequencies will. Now having said that. If there are trees and obstructions, then 900 MHz can "pass" through this type of interference better than 2.4 GHz, and 2.4 GHz can "pass through this type of interference better than 2.4 GHz. So to answer your question. It depends, but I hope this gives you a better understanding of what spectrum you will want to use. Typically 2.4 GHz and 5.8 GHz are you LOS solutions, and 900 MHz is your NLOS solution.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14095652 Tue, 09 Aug 2005 15:42:56 EDT Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km range http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14095607 bsamarah : Appreciate the reply...

Forgive the ignorance, how can these dfferent frequencies work togather.. Can you suggest any equipement types that are needed?

Second low poer APs I am assuming you mean lower frequency, like 900MHz?
Does the lower frequency => less distance ?

I am assuming that a wireless ISP should probably use a 5.8Ghz backhaul. The transmission to a house with line of sigh can be 2.4Ghz but to a building or a covered area would need to be something for the 900MHz range ?

Hope it is not too much and thanks in advance.

Later

bsamarah]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14095607 Tue, 09 Aug 2005 15:36:41 EDT Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km range http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14094550 GuyS25 :

said by John Galt

:

These are used in the U.S. to penetrate trees and concrete walls...

:D:D:D
You just couldn't resist that, could you?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14094550 Tue, 09 Aug 2005 13:18:59 EDT Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km range http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14094005 John Galt :

said by bsamarah

:

How come there is no solution that can penetrate walls.

Penetration is frequency dependent. The higher the frequency, the less the penetration. Conversely, the lower the frequency, the greater the penetration.

It is better to install more low power AP's in buildings than fewer high power AP's.

One more question.. Can all these different frequencies work together 5.8Ghz with 2.4Ghz with 900MHz?

The short answer is yes.
--
A is A]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14094005 Tue, 09 Aug 2005 12:07:33 EDT Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km range http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14093089 bsamarah : Hello all..

I am a little confused. How come there is no solution that can penetrate walls. How do you connect conference rooms or an entire building? If the building has 2 apt per floor it is going to extremely difficult to connect the entire building to a line of sight. Is the Lucent ORENCO product not a solution? How about 5.8 GHz can those be used to extend the range?

One more question.. Can all these different frequencies work togather 5.8Ghz with 2.4Ghz with 900MHz? Appreciate all your help in advance.

Thanks]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14093089 Tue, 09 Aug 2005 09:36:56 EDT Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km rang http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14057252 bito : What if you used a high-powered indoor client (cb3, ez1100, etc) inside each customers house to connect back to the AP? No outdoor installs, radio install is easy, and you have a better chance of making your plan happen. Although you are going to be dealing with a RF nightmare.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14057252 Thu, 04 Aug 2005 13:35:53 EDT Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km rang http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14056750 DaDogs : Depends upon the area actually. You know they have auctioned most of it off. One would have to lease the use of the spectrum from the company that holds the lease.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14056750 Thu, 04 Aug 2005 12:34:44 EDT Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km range http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14055044 Semaphore : In addition to what Robbin said - there _are_ companies that _claim_ to be able to do this.... so far I have yet to hear from someone (that wasn't on the sales team) that can actually says that they have used one of these magic antennas to do that. Let alone SHOW me that same thing in action... but I know of alot that CLAIM they can ;)
--
www.gozoom.ca]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14055044 Thu, 04 Aug 2005 07:37:14 EDT Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km range http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14054543 robbin : It really doesn't have anything to do with the antenna. It is the physics behind the propagation of the radio frequency. 2.4 does not penetrate very well at a distance. It's great inside a house to go through the walls from room to room, but you can't send it a half mile through a tree or two and then through a wood wall (much less a concrete one).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14054543 Thu, 04 Aug 2005 02:51:07 EDT Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km range http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14054525 John Galt :

said by jlrubia

:

are there any trees and walls penetrating antenna in the market today?

Not in the 2.4 band, generally speaking. If you can get outside of the walls, you have a chance. If not, well, the game is over.

You must mount outside...with clear line-of-sight. There are some OFDM products that handle the trees better, but they are more expensive than standard 802.11a/b/g gear.
--
A is A]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14054525 Thu, 04 Aug 2005 02:44:07 EDT Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km range http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14054449 jlrubia : are there any trees and walls penetrating antenna in the market today?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14054449 Thu, 04 Aug 2005 02:27:12 EDT Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km range http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14054312 John Galt :

said by robbin

:

I really doubt that you will penetrate the trees in the Philipines. I know you won't be penetrating many concrete walls. You really need a good line of site and mounting your equipment outside to eliminate the walls.

What Robbin said...
--
A is A]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14054312 Thu, 04 Aug 2005 01:56:47 EDT Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km range http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14054308 John Galt : These are used in the U.S. to penetrate trees and concrete walls...
--
A is A

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14054308 Thu, 04 Aug 2005 01:56:04 EDT Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km range http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14054239 robbin : I really doubt that you will penetrate the trees in the Philipines. I know you won't be penetrating many concrete walls. You really need a good line of site and mounting your equipment outside to eliminate the walls.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14054239 Thu, 04 Aug 2005 01:42:36 EDT Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km range http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14054221 jlrubia : i already make a survey. there about 40 to 60 house who would like to subscribe due to no broadband internet connection available in the area. im planning to put up WISP in that area. all of the houses are in concrete type of walls and about 20 house are behind trees but the rest are at line-of-sight. what are the equipment used to penetrate trees and concrete walls?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14054221 Thu, 04 Aug 2005 01:38:35 EDT Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km rang http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14054177 John Galt :

said by DaDogs

:

Commercial 700 MHz gear.

I wonder what the license would cost...?
--
A is A]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14054177 Thu, 04 Aug 2005 01:27:48 EDT Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km range http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14054173 robbin : I haven't had the opportunity to visit the Philipines. I understand that the tree / foliage is pretty thick with it being a tropical country. Without knowing more, I can't offer advice. How thick is the tree cover. What are the houses built of there (wood, concrete, etc)?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14054173 Thu, 04 Aug 2005 01:27:31 EDT Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km rang http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14054163 DaDogs : Commercial 700 MHz gear.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14054163 Thu, 04 Aug 2005 01:25:26 EDT Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km range http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14054146 John Galt : Using 2.4 is going to be tough, since it doesn't want to penetrate walls and trees to well. You will do very much better if you use an outside antenna, and have a good line-of-sight to your transmitter location.

An integrated solution such as this is the best way to go. You do not have feed line losses such as those associated with coax cables, and this device can be placed in the optimum location for reception with a long cable to the computer.

Many people on this list use this device and are well-satisfied with its performance and the support that the company gives.

In all fairness, there are other companies out there, but their equipment costs more, and usually cost is consideration. If it is not, then there are other options.
--
A is A]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14054146 Thu, 04 Aug 2005 01:20:53 EDT Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km range http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14053742 jlrubia : i am from the philppines, asia, 2.4 ghz frequency is an unlicensed bandwidth in our country. so what are the necessary equipment (AP, antenna, amplifier, etc.) to use to penetrate walls and trees of houses. please help.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14053742 Thu, 04 Aug 2005 00:10:45 EDT Re: WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km rang http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14047267 sbeasley : Since you are using km, I would assume that you are not from the US or England, and I am not familiar with your nations regulations, but here in the states the unlicenced bandwidth is 900 MHz. It will do exactly what you want, since 2 km is about 1.24 mi. It's what you would want to use. So find out what is unlicenced in your area, and use whatever spectrum is under 1 GHz, and you should be okay.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14047267 Wed, 03 Aug 2005 09:28:33 EDT WISP equipment to penetrate houses in 2km range http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14046475 jlrubia : i am planning to put up a new WISP in our subdivision. what are the necessary equipment that i will use in a 2km range from the source and can penetrate walls of houses and trees. please help i need some suggestions. thanks]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14046475 Wed, 03 Aug 2005 04:01:52 EDT