[ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright in Rogers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r14323214 en Wed, 09 Dec 2009 10:24:52 EDT Wed, 09 Dec 2009 10:24:52 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15383581 Yatti4209 : Dont reply to that email, I think piedpiper meant 1720.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15383581 Thu, 02 Feb 2006 03:28:19 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14939268 HughR : Warning: I Am Not A Lawyer.
said by root9 See Profile :

...ever since Fishnet [start of Internet as we know it].
What was Fishnet? I don't remember it. Neither does Google nor does wikipedia.
Anyway: To test your claims I installed the thing ...
Experiments are good things. An added dose of facts is useful.
Visual servers verify reg. code and then automatically send email if correct licensed copy is not found.
Rogers gets it and in their infinite wisdom shoot off email to you / me.
As far as I can see, Rogers is not participating in any possible copyright violation, so this is none of Rogers' business. I presume that Rogers' crude mechanism cannot discern this, but it is likely significant.
Visualroute is registered in USA but not in Canada, that I have been able to find.
Registered for what? Copyright registration is not required under the Berne convention. Canada and the US recognize each others copyrights as signatories to Berne.
As a final note: software should be no more than $5 to $15 for OS or major application. All smaller and add-on software should be less. Anything above that is a rip-off.
Surely the vendor gets to set the offer price. The customer gets to accept the offer or not.
Switch to linux, it has all the toys and better for free ;)
That's what I do. But remember that "free" is not just the price. Also: the GPL is using copyright law, not ignoring it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14939268 Sat, 03 Dec 2005 15:07:04 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14903132 sbrook : And that law has just gotten delayed.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14903132 Mon, 28 Nov 2005 21:00:22 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14903077 anon : Perhaps this article will shed some light on this.

»www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/s···NewsAt11

The way I read the warning email, they do not say you are in violation of their EUA. They simply state infringing copyright violates the EUA and what they can do if they find you are in violation.

They also say to contact the original sender of the complaint. Translation. "Don't reply to us how your sharing of whatever was found does not infringe on copyright. Tell the complainant."

This sounds like a notice and notice regime to me. Unless someone has been kicked off for copyright infringment (noone I know) ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14903077 Mon, 28 Nov 2005 20:54:27 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14897963 FishPants : Anyone with time on their hands could stick it to the company doing this. Get the IP Ranges for major ISPs (Bell, Rogers and so on) then set up a packet generator that would include a new IP address on every single packet (since it seems the source IP is actually part of the transmission). Once Rogers/Bell etc receives 60,000 of these messages they will simply deep-six them and ignore visual route.

If only I had more time on my hands!
--
Hail to the Nipple-Titan.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14897963 Mon, 28 Nov 2005 08:51:48 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14889599 root9 : Hello ppl,
First let me tell you that I’m a Network & Systems Analyst and been on Internet ever since Fishnet [start of Internet as we know it]. All this experience must be worth something .. lol.

Anyway: To test your claims I installed the thing and I received same kind of emails from Rogers about Visualroute, all 3 of them.
First of all; Visualroute reports home first to be able to use the software per each start. I checked with packet sniffer.
Visual servers verify reg. code and then automatically send email if correct licensed copy is not found.
Rogers gets it and in their infinite wisdom shoot off email to you / me.
Visualroute is registered in USA but not in Canada, that I have been able to find. [keep this in mind for later].
Rogers thinks now and since it amalgamated with [sold out to] Yahoo, Homestead, Gygablast and others that it can do anything it pleases.
Most of their EUA is bull and most likely illegal. Still fighting them on this one .. lol

Now that we got that out of the way;
Visualroute has been pilfering people for cash in the worst way for last few yrs. Since they don’t hold an International copyright they have no leg to stand on outside the USA! Remember this since it’s very important for other software as well.
Visualroute has no option but to let you / me keep on using it since the cost of stopping you / me is much higher than they can afford to prosecute. Ever try to get blood out of a rock?
Rogers can and will cut your / my services if you / I continue to use Visualroute. Been there done that .. get it? So will Sympatico, Telus, Sprint and others. It’s better to go with a small ISP anyway.
In reality if you can find a way to stop Visualroute from reporting then go nuts, and send me a copy just to piss Visualroute coder off! You have my support because of way owner of Visualroute charges way too much for not so good software and which reports privacy settings to their server.

Just for reference: And if owner of Visual route reads this ,, be my guest ,, I’ll sue your ass for gathering private data in your home state! I started to receive massive Spam from your contact. Check your laws .. I did.

I’m looking for a much better software or will ask friends to code it so it finds Spammer’s / Intruder’s home address, not just ISP and node info. Might just post Visualroute owner’s info on all channels if he doesn’t change his tune.

As a final note: software should be no more than $5 to $15 for OS or major application. All smaller and add-on software should be less. Anything above that is a rip-off. Remind Microsoft of that every chance you get.

Switch to linux, it has all the toys and better for free ;) ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14889599 Sat, 26 Nov 2005 22:26:05 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14852796 darrylr :
quote:
Any advice or thoughts on this would be great.


A couple of choices...

1) Ignore the email since they can't touch you under the current laws in Canada. The only thing that could ever happen is Rogers may cancel your service if you get enough of these but I don't know of anyone who has had this happen to them.

2) Stop sharing copyrighted material and you will not see any more emails like this one.

-Darryl]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14852796 Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:10:17 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14852766 anon : I just received an email similar to this. I was running Shareaza yesturday and one of my shared files was a Microsoft product. This is the program that was mentioned in the email.

There is no chance it was calling home or anything. Here's a copy of the email:
quote:
Dear Mr XXX

Rogers Cable (Rogers) has received a notice stating that activities associated with your IP address are infringing copyright in material(s) owned or exclusively licensed by others.

The relevant portions of the notice are appended to this e-mail.

Under the Rogers Yahoo! Hi-Speed Internet End User Agreement (EUA) and Acceptable Use Policy (AUP), you are prohibited from using the Rogers Yahoo! Hi-Speed Internet service to engage in illegal activities, including activities that infringe copyright. Copies of our EUA and AUP are available at:

»help.yahoo.com/rogers

Where there has been a violation of our EUA and/or AUP, including the unauthorized distribution of copyright-protected material, Rogers has the right to take appropriate action against you.

If you have any questions about the attached copyright notice, please contact the sender of the notice using the contact information provided in the notice. Please do not reply to this e-mail.

We trust you will comply with our policies and all applicable laws in using the Rogers Yahoo! Hi-Speed Internet service.

Sincerely,

EUA Management Team
Rogers Yahoo Hi-Speed Internet

»na.edit.client.yahoo.com/rogers/···rm=terms
00266865

ss Software Alliance (BSA) and The Canadian Alliance Against Soft=
ware Theft (CAAST) has determined that the connection listed below, which a=
ppears to be using an Internet account under your control, is using a Gnute=
lla network to offer unlicensed copies of copyrighted computer programs pub=
lished by the BSA's and CAAST's member companies.

Site Details:
----------------------------------------------
Date Found: 19 Nov 2005 05:51:26 EST (GMT -0500)
Network: Morpheus
IP Address: XX.XX.XX.XX
IP Port: 1720
Protocol: Gnutella
UserName:=20

Content being offered:
----------------------------------------------
Filename: XXX.iso
Filesize: 607,939k


The above computer program(s) is/are being made available for copying, thro=
ugh downloading, at the above location without authorization from the copyr=
ight owner(s). THIS IS A VIOLATION OF CANADIAN COPYRIGHT LAW AND, WE ASSU=
ME, OF YOUR TERMS OF SERVICE.

Based upon BSA's and CAAST's representation of the copyright owners in anti=
-piracy matters, we have a good faith belief that none of the materials or =
activities listed above have been authorized by the rightholders, their age=
nts, or the law. BSA and CAAST represent that the information in this noti=
fication is accurate and states, under penalty of perjury, that it is autho=
rized to act in this matter on behalf of the copyright owners listed above.

We hereby give notice of these activities to you and request that you take =
expeditious appropriate action to prevent the illegal reproduction and dist=
ribution of pirated so


Any advice or thoughts on this would be great.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14852766 Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:04:55 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14789197 PiedPiper1 : hello all for torrent problems try port 720 i work for rogers see if this helps at all.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14789197 Sat, 12 Nov 2005 11:31:42 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14339136 corster : delete it.

besides, if rogers DID hand over your identity (which they didn't), you can sue them for it..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14339136 Sun, 11 Sep 2005 09:23:26 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14337585 anon : dude. perhaps you should ignore and immediately delete such an email. How are they going to confirm that _YOU_ actually got it and read it, except if you reply. I'm not a lawyer so check with one, don't take my word. But I think it's all about plausible deniability. Of course you also want to take steps to ensure that the jackbooted ones won't find anything if they come to visit.

"You sent me an email telling me to cease and desist doing what? Funny, I don't have any recollection of seeing any such email, perhaps it was deleted by my spam filter at the time, assuming of course I actually received it. "]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14337585 Sat, 10 Sep 2005 23:10:03 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14335543 fiberguy : gotchya... duh, I should have read again where it came from abuse@rogers.... thanks]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14335543 Sat, 10 Sep 2005 16:44:13 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14335489 sbrook : Nobody gave Visual his email address.

Visual looked at the IP address of the "call home" and did an rDNS lookup and said "Rogers.com" which says report cases of abuse to abuse@rci.rogers.com ... which they did.

Rogers looked at their IP logs and determined who it was ... and basically forwarded Visual's message and added their "don't do illegal stuff per our EUA" to it the poster.

Visual still don't know who it was and never will unless they can get a Canadian court order.

Rogers, on the other hand, may simply terminate him if he goes and does something illegal again.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14335489 Sat, 10 Sep 2005 16:33:23 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14335424 fiberguy :
said by PuZo10 :

I got an e-mail saying my IP has been infringing copyright laws. They said they have the right to take legal action. They said to not reply to the email, but to reply to some guy from »www.visualware.com/

Did anyone else get something like this? Ever since the cap I have slowed down downloading dramatically. Could it be from uploading P2P? They didnt say exactly what it was for, I emailed the guy form the site but he hasnt replied.
Did you ever stop to ask yourself how they would have gotten your email address if it's a hacked version? Did you register it? Did you enter your email address in the program somewhere?? Something's funny here anyway unless Rogers gave out your email address to them. Just my thought.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14335424 Sat, 10 Sep 2005 16:17:11 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14335270 sbrook : No ... that's unlikely ... Rogers have too much on their plates to go looking for problems (their abuse desk is a disaster) ... but they are likely to keep this on your file and may do more than just warn you if they receive another complaint like that.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14335270 Sat, 10 Sep 2005 15:44:16 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14335212 PuZo6 : Okay, I guess my last question is, now that Rogers knows that I was doing somethign wrong. Is there any chance that they wil be monitoring me more carefully or something along the lines of that? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14335212 Sat, 10 Sep 2005 15:32:39 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14335199 Wolfie00 : PuZo, to answer your two questions, No and No :)

There's good advice in this thread. To summarize, the best thing to do is uninstall the stupid thing if you haven't done so already, and then forget the whole thing. Don't use any of their software again unless you buy it.

Do not email them as that is pointless. They don't know who you are, they can't find out who you are because in Canada Rogers cannot release personal information without a court order, and as someone pointed out there is no way it would be worth their while to pursue a court order. That's the end of that part of the story.

As for Rogers "retracting" your status as having been notified of a copyright infringement, look back at sbrook's comment about Rogers being a maze of twisty little passages all alike, which quote also contains the key word "clueless". You will never get anywhere with them. That's the end of the other part of the story. :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14335199 Sat, 10 Sep 2005 15:29:27 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14335107 PuZo6 : IM definetly sure it came from Rogers because I did *use* that program. Would it make any difference If i e-mailed the guy and told him I would buy a license for that program? Maybe even tell him if he coudl retract his statement to my isp or something?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14335107 Sat, 10 Sep 2005 15:12:56 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14334819 jig : don't use their software unless you are doing so legally. if the letter was unregistered, and they have no idea if you've received it or not, then throw it away and quit using their software.

if you must, keep downloading, but don't use their software.

don't use their software.

am i being clear?

in any event, rogers might have you on their radar now. even if you don't get nailed by the riaa or mpaa directly, they might send you another letter saying that you've been downloading things that are against your terms of service, and that might be your second warning, or your final one. your choice on how risky it is to continue.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14334819 Sat, 10 Sep 2005 14:13:00 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14334687 WickedWinter : Here is an example of what they log/send home:

ip address: 128.138.39.XX [strnXX-XX-dhcp.resnet.colorado.edu]
proxy info: for=192.168.2.187|via=1.0 whale:3128 (squid/2.5.STABLE1)
date/time: 2002/10/08 22:27:19 EST
ethernet mac: 00E018190757
user name: Sutha XXXXXuphong
computer name: blueXXXXX
license key: NONE - CRACKED VERSION
product: VisualRoute (build 1819)

found here:
»www.visualware.com/company/cracked.html]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14334687 Sat, 10 Sep 2005 13:50:35 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14334371 sbrook : I agree on the matter of the cracks .. most Visual... Software has a demo/trial version.

Knowing Rogers, it's pointless contacting them. Their organisation is a maze of twistly little passages all alike. So there's no guarantee that any attempt to contact them will end up with someone who has a clue.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14334371 Sat, 10 Sep 2005 13:01:44 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14334296 2kmaro : Some observations/questions:

First, there is a trial version of VisualRoute available for download and a 15-day use. No cost. So why there would even need to be a crack applied is kind of beyond me. You download the trial, you determine if you like it or not, and then you either buy it or you don't and unload it.

Second, I'd just send Rogers an email directly (not in reply to original) asking "Did you send this to me?" - actually, forwarding it would be better and see what the say?

Third - as someone else mentioned, the built-in Windows XP firewall will not stop any call home type activity by any program on your computer, including outright viruses and worms. It only guards against stuff gaining unauthorized entrance. But if a program starts a comm session from inside your computer, that firewall does not alert you to it and it then allows all replies to that session in through the firewall. There are any number of firewalls that will prevent that type of thing such as ZoneAlarm, Norton Personal Firewall, Kerio, Tiny, etc. I know that ZoneAlarm has a free for personal use version available simply for the asking.
--
...then THINK! again!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14334296 Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:48:41 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14334125 sbrook : Without seeing the full headers, it's impossible to say.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14334125 Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:15:37 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14334123 jrsmooth : If you can post the full email header, I can tell you if it is fake or not.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14334123 Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:15:24 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14333964 ottawa_guy : One thing. All rogers corporate e-mail comes from XXX@rci.rogers.com. Rogers corporate does not use rogers.com e-mail addresses. It sounds like a spam e-mail. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14333964 Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:46:49 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14333889 sbrook : Thank you Keith for that rationalization ...

We do indeed tend to work on the "spirit of the law" as opposed to the "letter of the law" which is what permits the Americans to be so litigious. The spirit of the law is basically the concept of "What the law is trying to achieve"

In this case, were Canadian copyright law applied, then the spirit of the law is as Keith indicates is to recover actual damages. The only place that punishment may be involved would be for the software vendor to seek Criminal charges (in this case for petty theft). That's unlikely to happen since the courts have bigger fish to fry. The cost of such a case is ridiculously high for the damages.

There are two options ... purchase the product to be a legal user, or totally uninstall the product (even remove the download crack and original distribution).

It seems likely that the "installer" probably called home if he didn't run it.

It is also possible that the crack was a trap (which would make for an interesting argument were it ever to arrive in court!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14333889 Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:30:49 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14333638 keith2468 : On the technical end of things, I wonder if the cracked copy of software came with something else, perhaps some malware that is causing the packets. Or maybe it didn't uninstall properly?

On the legal end of things, I'm not a lawyer, but I have taken a couple of courses in Canadian civil law for the common law provinces (i.e. not Quebec).

Up here in Canada, things like the Digital Millenium Copyright Act don't apply, the DMCR being a US law, and Canada being a different country.

In Canada, we pretty much rely on the politeness, morals and ethics of our citizens and visitors to limit petty crime. It works okay for us.

Looking at the post of the email notice, this is what he is being asked to do:
quote:
We trust you will comply with our policies and all
applicable laws in
using the Rogers Yahoo! Hi-Speed Internet service.


In other words his ISP is politely telling him, if you want to remain our customer don't do that again.

If he gets the proper notice of a lawsuit being filed in a court (as opposed a cautionary letter like this or a threat Visualware to launch a lawsuit), then he should certainly contact a lawyer.

Canadian law isn't big on punitive damages, so while you can sue for any amount you can imagine, the damages a court is likely to award are pretty much limited to the damages he actually caused the plaintiff, plus court costs. If he didn't distribute the cracked software, the damages are the cost of one copy of the software. Pursuing a suit like this would likely incur other costs to Visualware that couldn't be recovered, so they would loose money on the suit.

So long as the pirated software is uninstalled, I think this is case closed.
--
(Virus&Hijacking FAQ + Submit suspected malware + Backups FAQ + Security FAQ TOC)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14333638 Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:34:46 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14333551 sbrook : tyukc ... Visualware is a US company. The recipient is in Canada. There is not enough info in the letter to "follow instructions" ...

Contacting the EFF is pretty pointless at this stage.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14333551 Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:14:03 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14333334 shans001 : These posts could be subpoenaed so careful what you admit to or reveal here.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14333334 Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:24:53 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14332521 pulp39 : This is weird. When I was a *key* man for a ++ Hub years ago, I used VisualRoute with a cracked pass for seeing where certain IP's came from. I liked seeing the path in 2 D on the map, LOL. Anyways, Ted never bothered to email me. Maybe because it was a loooong time ago and the software didn't call home back then? Or perhaps... Ted has a laundry list of crap on me and is just itching to thrown down the gauntlet once all the evidence is compiled!

:D
--
"Rogers needs to buy the CN Tower and call it Rogers Tower. This way, TED can shoot laser beams out his ass to our modems when we go over 100 Gigs." - MoeB -
LMFFAO!!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14332521 Sat, 10 Sep 2005 01:41:26 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14332478 joekuz : I had received the same email as you about a year and a half ago when I had Dsl. Visualware are sticklers, instead of just giving a invalid serial # error like most programs do, they go the extra step and file complaint to your isp. My advice, just uninstall the software and never use it again!..and u shouldn't have any problems. :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14332478 Sat, 10 Sep 2005 01:28:57 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14332253 Angelo_ : if he contacts a lawyer now and does nothing on on record and won't be used against him...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14332253 Sat, 10 Sep 2005 00:37:24 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14332190 jagged : do not take the opinion of armchair lawyers as a fact or you'll end up regretting it.

Go the EFF site and ask for a referral to an attorney in your area, most of the time you'll get reduced-fee consultation.

You tell him/her everything including how you cracked the software and why, and the lawyer will tell you in just how much shit you've gotten yourself into.

Ignoring the letter and not following instructions as requested could land you in court and be proof-positive you did not care to remedy the situation even though you were given a chance!

Go to a lawyer]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14332190 Sat, 10 Sep 2005 00:26:34 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14332041 w1zard : Call me paranoid, but you have to be out of your mind, Puzo. You honestly have to ask if you should stop dling warez for a while? Chances are you will never hear anything else about that email, but is it a chance you are willing to take? I do believe I would at the very least make sure my pc and home was clean of any warez for a couple of months, and see what, if anything, develops from that email. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14332041 Sat, 10 Sep 2005 00:05:21 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14331422 KyeU : PuZo, I've read the email over, and here's my findings:

-it is certainly a valid email
-does not provide extensive proof that YOU violated the copyright law
-does not give you a definite action to take, just tells you to contact the person at the visualware.com address...

It's not serious, but at the same time, it's not just a warning :huh:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14331422 Fri, 09 Sep 2005 22:32:34 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14331257 PuZo6 : lol dont worry, im quite active in teh scene. There are 100's of programs that call home to yoru isp if you use a blacklisted serial/crack. My onyl worry is If i continue downloading regular stuff, ie movies, games, coudl I get into more trouble. I know rogers wont be involved, but does this put me more at stake? Right now, im not downlaidng anything because I dont knwo what to think of the situation, If Rogers jsut simply chked for that IP, and it belonged to me, so they forward me to e-mail, if it as simpel as that I shoudl be okay. Once agian the onyl worry I have is, if I start to download of torrents(no applications) will I be prone to more e-mails like this>?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14331257 Fri, 09 Sep 2005 22:06:46 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14330380 Wolfie00 :
said by Angelo_ See Profile :

his prob is they know he stole the software... and they have proof... he is in a bad situation where i'd contact a lawyer.. and ask for advice
On this kind of issue, you contact a lawyer if and when you receive a summons.

An email like this is very, very common -- happens all the time. The guy is already worried, please don't make those kinds of statements without knowing what you're talking about.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14330380 Fri, 09 Sep 2005 20:02:58 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14330309 Wolfie00 :
said by Angelo_ See Profile :

its actually any 3 warnings and your out in your lifetime after a years suspection it gets reset
That's the stated policy for going over the bandwidth cap. Are you sure this is how it works with copyright notices? I've never seen any statement on this from Rogers.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14330309 Fri, 09 Sep 2005 19:54:06 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14330299 Angelo_ : his prob is they know he stole the software... and they have proof... he is in a bad situation where i'd contact a lawyer.. and ask for advice]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14330299 Fri, 09 Sep 2005 19:53:07 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14330273 Wolfie00 : Rogers wouldn't be "part" of any lawsuit, they're just the ISP -- a third party.

To the best of my knowledge no one in Canada has yet been sued for simple downloading of music, movies, or software, but that could always change. Rogers is not involved in any way except that they have liability if they don't respond to these kinds of notices, hence the possibility that with further infringements they could cut you off.

Bottom line: as things stand, I wouldn't worry about it. To be safe I just wouldn't press my luck any further :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14330273 Fri, 09 Sep 2005 19:50:08 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14330247 Angelo_ : its actually any 3 warnings and your out in your lifetime after a years suspection it gets reset]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14330247 Fri, 09 Sep 2005 19:47:19 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14330139 PuZo6 : I Honestly couldnt care less if they cut me off. Just as long as I dont get a lawsuit. Has anyone ever heard of ROgers beign part of a lawsuit due to downlaidng in anyway?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14330139 Fri, 09 Sep 2005 19:33:19 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14330023 Wolfie00 : Thanks for posting the complete email.

It looks like this was not related to tracing any download or upload activity, but indeed a "call-home" scenario. I base this on the fact that there is no download information given which is always the case when a trace has been done -- filename, date, time, download facility, etc.

In other words Visualware has no idea how you got their product, only that the thing called home and it looked like you appeared to be trying to run it illegally.

With the important caveat that I am not a lawyer and am just offering my opinion, the notice from Visualware carries the same legal weight as the contents of your cat's litterbox. There is no date, time, product info, nothing. Basically they sent Rogers an email saying you have been very bad and you should contact them :p

Unfortunately what you need to worry about is the relationship with Rogers. As sbrook says we don't know how many of these infrigement notices they tolerate before they cut you off, but eventually they do. And the fact that the "evidence" is all B.S. is irrelevant, they can still cut you off and you really have no recourse.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14330023 Fri, 09 Sep 2005 19:14:53 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14329966 PuZo6 : So if I do continue, download muhc less and stay away from visualware(liek I already am) I should be okay

And just out of curiosuity, if they do give my naem for teh court order, what would happen? Would i be sued?*this is just a big if]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14329966 Fri, 09 Sep 2005 19:04:41 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14329870 sbrook : Again, it's almost nothing to do with Rogers.

Visualware sent a complaint to Rogers based on your downloading something from somewhere with your IP address. Rogers looked in their logs and saw the user with that IP address at the time was you. So, they forwarded the complaint to you.

All Rogers does is forward the message. BUT if you persist in downloading stuff that you aren't entitled to, then you risk another warning. I don't know how many warnings Rogers will forward until they disconnect you ... but it's probably a 3 strike and you're gone. Rogers won't take part in any lawsuit from Visualware for example, other than give over your name on a court order.

It really is up to you whether you want to carry on.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14329870 Fri, 09 Sep 2005 18:52:29 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14329726 PuZo6 : So say I do keep downloading, would I get another warnign say from Rogers? Or would they, if they would just send me a lawsuit out of the blue?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14329726 Fri, 09 Sep 2005 18:31:32 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14328979 Angelo_ : i'd ignore it aand avoid their crappy software they been doing this for 5 years now]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14328979 Fri, 09 Sep 2005 16:49:33 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14328734 Tyreman : Maybe e-mail a mistake and meant for "someone" else.:D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14328734 Fri, 09 Sep 2005 16:15:50 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14328630 sbrook : Well, he said he didn't use the program at all so we have to take him at his word.

Since visual distribute their programs far and wide, and going from demo to real is a matter of the key, then they must have seeded the crack.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14328630 Fri, 09 Sep 2005 16:02:23 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14328382 pulp39 : LOL sbrook, there are cracks for every known program in the universe over the web, torrents, Sharaza, Usenet, Mirc, etc...
He, obviously needed the crack after the free trial or wanted the greater functionality...
--
"Rogers needs to buy the CN Tower and call it Rogers Tower. This way, TED can shoot laser beams out his ass to our modems when we go over 100 Gigs." - MoeB - LMFFAO!!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14328382 Fri, 09 Sep 2005 15:33:11 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14328222 sbrook : I doubt that Rogers will be "watching you" in as much as they won't be checking your activities themselves, but they might do something if they get another.

Since the notice is such junk, I'd do nothing. Hold onto the mail and leave it at that. If they come after you again, then ask them what you were supposed to do with that.

Where did you download that Visual product from? Since they have demos on their own site, it's kind of strange, unless they are holding cracks on their own site and nabbing people who go after the cracks. Which one might call entrapment.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14328222 Fri, 09 Sep 2005 15:13:44 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14328200 PuZo6 : I dont use the program, so like I said it was onyl installed for 5 minutes. My problem is how do I treat the situation? Can I keep downloading normla stuff, Ie torrents, like games and movies, or does this mean they are watching me adn watchign what I am downloading.

This is my full e-mail that I got:

Dear (My name)

Rogers Cable (Rogers) has received a notice stating
that activities
associated with your IP address are infringing
copyright in material(s)
owned or exclusively licensed by others.

The relevant portions of the notice are appended to
this e-mail.

Under the Rogers Yahoo! Hi-Speed Internet End User
Agreement (EUA) and
Acceptable Use Policy (AUP), you are prohibited from
using the Rogers
Yahoo! Hi-Speed Internet service to engage in illegal
activities,
including activities that infringe copyright. Copies
of our EUA and AUP are
available at:

»help.yahoo.com/rogers

Where there has been a violation of our EUA and/or
AUP, including the
unauthorized distribution of copyright-protected
material, Rogers has
the right to take appropriate action against you.

If you have any questions about the attached copyright
notice, please
contact the sender of the notice using the contact
information provided
in the notice. Please do not reply to this e-mail.

We trust you will comply with our policies and all
applicable laws in
using the Rogers Yahoo! Hi-Speed Internet service.

Sincerely,

EUA Management Team
Rogers Yahoo Hi-Speed Internet

»na.edit.client.yahoo.com/rogers/···rm=terms
00233572

pect a reply, send a plain text email to
*****.*****@visualware.com]

-=-=--=-=-

Thats it, no IP, nothing. My greatest fear is, is Rogers gonna be watching me now? Or how serious is this. SHoudl I email the guy and what shoudl I say?

This is what I had in mind:

Hello. I would just like to understand clearly so there wont be anymore interuptions in the future. Could you explain to me the problem, and I would gladly do my best to fix this issue. Thank you for your time in reading my e-mail.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14328200 Fri, 09 Sep 2005 15:09:42 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14327721 sbrook : Puzzled ... Most of the visual products do access the net , but they do so on standard ports. What you need to block is the Non-standard ports which are usually used for "call home".]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14327721 Fri, 09 Sep 2005 14:04:14 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14327003 puzz1ed : VisualRoute intrinsically needs to access the Internet so blocking Net access would be problematic. Also, it's a Java app so unless you want to block all Java apps from accessing the Net it'll be even harder.

I agree with you on this "call home" stuff. Who know what info is being sent.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14327003 Fri, 09 Sep 2005 12:25:14 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14326757 Wolfie00 : The "call home" mechanism is definitely used more than people might suspect (I should have thought of that earlier :)) It lets a company track where and when their software is installed and can be used for various purposes, anti-piracy being just one.

I must say that this practice bothers me. I don't condone piracy, but software designed to do this calls home whether it's legit or not, and you have no idea or control over what information is being sent back. For instance it could send back anything from your registry, which contains loads of information about your software, computer usage, and even personal identifying information in many cases.

IMO, it's the software equivalent of buying a toaster that turns out to have a hidden microphone and transmitter in it. It violates the spirit of our privacy laws and IMHO should not be legal!

P.S.- Darryl is right - a properly configured firewall can put a stop to this! I didn't think the XP standard firewall could block outgoing connections in either SP1 or SP2, though -- you would need something like Zone Alarm or Sygate PF.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14326757 Fri, 09 Sep 2005 11:42:38 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14326214 darrylr : If you are worried about software "calling home" just setup the Windows XP2 firewall or use Zone Alarm. You would be suprised which programs do this and at which times.

-Darryl]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14326214 Fri, 09 Sep 2005 10:15:47 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14326147 sbrook : They aren't "working with Rogers". Visualware are simply protecting their rights albeit apparently with a "call home" mechanism.

It's not as if the visualware products are particularly expensive either - but why use cracks when they have demos.

So, they identify Rogers and Rogers notify you they received a complaint about your unauthorized use of software. That's it ... That's Rogers involvement. That's why Rogers tell you to contact visualware and not them. They just acted as a relay.

Now, you have a choice .... you can ignore it (which if you've stopped using the product you may get away with) or you can contact visualware and face the music. Your choice. Of course visualware are an American company so it's difficult to sue you. BUT they can sue you in a US court, which can get a default judgement if you don't appear ... and then depending on the terms you may find yourself with an arrest warrant against you which if you're ever pulled by the cops in the US could get interesting.

So the choice is your.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14326147 Fri, 09 Sep 2005 10:02:51 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14326093 primal98 : Yes, it must be calling home. Many not as popular companies(first time I heard of these guys) use call home functions.... usually it is a scare tactic, but if they work with rogers than I am not surprised..... though this is a first, I mean you aren't downloading/uploading anything so WTF :P Probably was a bad crack, and didnt stop the call home. General rule of thumb is to block the prog from accessing the net(firewall and such)... but if, like here, it needs the net for email or sumtin.... then stay clear of it :P Let us know how it goes :) I wouldnt sweat it too much.... maybe call rogers? I mean a typo... and they want u to contact those guys... strange.

~prime]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14326093 Fri, 09 Sep 2005 09:54:18 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14325671 magnus2 : I got the same email a few weeks ago after having tried Visualware's VisualRoute with a crack to get it to run.

It dropped in less than 2 hrs after me running it, so it doesn't seem like a conincidence to me, rather that the program is actually calling home.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14325671 Fri, 09 Sep 2005 08:13:58 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14325574 Cableguy4116 : Just another thought...Instead of a file sharing issue, the program may have "called home" to their servers and logged your IP address along with the "cracked" serial number etc., indicating a copyright infringement. The intern contacted Rogers to advise of your improper use of the program.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14325574 Fri, 09 Sep 2005 07:34:12 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14324486 Wolfie00 : Hard to say if this is legit without seeing it -- why don't you check the full email header and see if the originating IP tells you anything. But if this is a scam I can't see what the point of it was.

Rogers is in fact sending emails like this, so this may (or may not) be legit. There was a long and active discussion about this issue in this thread

Assuming this is legit: Rogers cannot give your subscriber info to anyone without a court order, so they use this type of notification to alert you that a copyright infringement notice has been sent to them. Under new legislation that I don't think has been passed yet, an ISP will be legally required to forward such notices. There is nothing you need to do except possibly stop downloading pirated material. It's a bad idea to contact the copyright holder as all you achieve is revealing your identity to them, but if you've already done so don't sweat it. Read the above thread for lots more information.

Edit: It occurs to me that legit emails like this will always include your IP address, what you downloaded, and the date and time and network facility that you downloaded it from. This would be a pretty good indicator that it's legit.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14324486 Fri, 09 Sep 2005 00:01:00 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14324165 cc86 :
said by PuZo10 :

Yes, it came form abuse@rogers.com

But it says not to reply there, it says to reply to someone with the e-mail ending with @visualware.com
Looks fishy to me. Rogers email addy for abuse is abuse@rci.rogers.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14324165 Thu, 08 Sep 2005 23:18:26 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14323862 PuZo6 : eMailTrackerPro

thats the only thing I tried, Jun 22 2005. I used a crack for it just to test it. So how should I approach rogers with this? I mean I want to keep downlaidng if I can, but since they said they haev teh right to take legal action, I dont knwo what to do.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14323862 Thu, 08 Sep 2005 22:37:44 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14323550 sbrook : The usual recommendation is to make sure you steer clear of nay products that visualware might sell.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14323550 Thu, 08 Sep 2005 22:02:56 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14323540 Marshal : look the header, and look the ip where does it come from ?
--
Vidéotron - Download @ 6.5mbits - Upload @ 900 kbits]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14323540 Thu, 08 Sep 2005 22:02:06 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14323527 puzz1ed : VisualWare is a software vendor. Among other things, they make the "myspeed.rogers.com" speedtest.

Apparently, they have contacted Rogers because they found your IP address "sharing" their software. Since they don't know who you are, their first recourse is to notify the ISP (Rogers) that owns your IP address. Rogers, to my knowledge, doesn't generally forward customer details when they receive such notices but will in general notify the customer in question.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14323527 Thu, 08 Sep 2005 22:00:23 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14323473 PuZo6 : same person(remembered pass)

I dont think it is. They tell me about the EUA and AUP. I highly doubt it would be fake.

But this whole thing is confusing

this is how it ends off:

Sincerely,

EUA Management Team
Rogers Yahoo Hi-Speed Internet

»na.edit.client.yahoo.com/rogers/···rm=terms
00233572

pect a reply, send a plain text email to *******@visualware.com]

thats word for word, dont knwo what the "pect" came from. It seems legit and I dont want to risk it]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14323473 Thu, 08 Sep 2005 21:54:27 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14323360 anon : well I checked the site out. It seems like it coudl be a company helping rogers? I dont know, if i dotn hear a response from him, then ill just have to e-mail rogers and ask if it was sent from them]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14323360 Thu, 08 Sep 2005 21:41:04 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14323339 Angelo_ : sounds fishy]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14323339 Thu, 08 Sep 2005 21:39:09 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14323330 anon : Yes, it came form abuse@rogers.com

But it says not to reply there, it says to reply to someone with the e-mail ending with @visualware.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14323330 Thu, 08 Sep 2005 21:38:24 EDT Re: [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14323292 alexpb1 : so did the email come from an @rogers.com address or what?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14323292 Thu, 08 Sep 2005 21:34:16 EDT [ Extreme] Rogers e-mail, infringing copyright http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14323214 anon : I got an e-mail saying my IP has been infringing copyright laws. They said they have the right to take legal action. They said to not reply to the email, but to reply to some guy from »www.visualware.com/

Did anyone else get something like this? Ever since the cap I have slowed down downloading dramatically. Could it be from uploading P2P? They didnt say exactly what it was for, I emailed the guy form the site but he hasnt replied.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14323214 Thu, 08 Sep 2005 21:25:52 EDT