Industry Forums > Wireless Service Providers > Type of router at AP end?

reply to Airplane777

Re: Type of router at AP end?

Hi cmaenginsb:

What you say about not focusing on equipment at first, but on my needs and wants, sounds pretty reasonable.

I guess my scenarios are going to be pretty much just an AP on a tower or hill, reaching out to hopefully a bunch of clients. I don't expect a big system at first. I don't know that each of my APs will serve a whole bunch of people. Hopefully enough though to make ROI. So maybe a T1 will be all I'll need for a while.

I don't know enough about the WISP operation so as to know what I need in a WISP router. I guess I just know I need some kind of router that I will need to be able to remote into, so as to be able to "reach" the AP and the SMs for remote configuration. I don't know about the extra things that are good for WISPs to do...I guess they might be statistics.

Well come to think of it, you did mention one that there...that is the throttling and BW shaping (or whatever they call that). But at first that might not be so necessary if I don't have a bunch of people on the system. However, maybe if the router that does all this isn't prohibitively expensive, maybe I should at least consider some kind of router that does this stuff.

I would want to offer VoIP. That would be a plus to get clients.

Why would I need VPN? Couldn't I remote into the router without VPN? Or do I need the security VPN provides?

I guess the design of my first WISPs will be pretty simple. The first one I expect will just be an AP connected to a router, which is connected to the Internet. And on the other end, I hope to have a bunch of clients with 9000SMCs...or 2.4 G CPEs if I can get some good line of site shots.

My AP end might have a 2.4 G AP and a 900 MHz AP. I'll use the 900 MHz for NLOS customers. And 2.4G if I can get LOS. I expect to have quickere ROI with 2.4 G. So I guess each AP will need its own router? And the two routers will go to a switch, which goes to the Internet.

That way I can remote into each router, with its own static IP address.

I probably won't even have my office at the AP end. I expect it will be an unmanned site. But I will probably want to remote into both APs and their respective APs from my office or home, etc., to manage them.

I hope that info helps give an idea of what I was thinking of. I hope I'm not "all wet" with my considerations for setting up this system.

Hi nwn:

Thank you.

I ordered the Learn To Subnet CD, so I'm sure that will help.

I don't understand how Mikrotik can at times be just a router, and other times it can be an AP, and other times a CPE.

But from what I gather, most of the time it is a router.

Is it applianced based...in a box? And the Mikrotik APs or CPEs are then just in boxes with transmitters and antennas?

But I'm glad to hear they are easier to configure then Cisco, since I have heard that Ciscos can be fairly complicated.

I know a local company that supplies T1s uses Adtrans. We have an Adtran supplied by this company to our office. Fortunately we don't have anything to do with the configuration of the Adtran. But this company uses them all the time.

Does an Adtran have the necessary features a WISP operation would want? Features similiar to the Mikrotik?

We tend to use the term Mikrotik to mean 2 things:

First, there is RouterOS. This is a Linux-based OS package that will run on any Intel/AMD based PC, and some others. It has all the router, AP, CPE, Backhaul (PTP) functionality in it. You just have to have the right hardware for each function.

Second, there are the RouterBoards. A couple of models with some options on each. The are designed to run RouterOS, but they are capable of running other OS as well.

So, I can configure a machine (PC or RouterBoard) with RouterOS to run as a router, an AP, a routing AP, a CPE, a routing CPE, an AP and CPE together, multiple APs and a Backhaul, etc. You can add multi-port Ethernet cards, radio cards, etc. to get the kind of device you need at a given location.
--
Scott

reply to Airplane777
what we have done is use the router supplied by the upstream provider,,and then added a MikroTik between the the cisco, Adtran,,etc..and the networks.
The MikroTik is installed on a PC in transparent bridge configuration being used to limit customer access, bandwidth control and soon total pipe bandwidth management.

This leaves the complex routing issues with the T-1 provider as we buy the managed router feature for $50/month.

The T-1 provider has been great and notifies us of any problems on the network.
--
Success is getting what you want; Happiness is wanting what you get.

reply to nwn
Ni nwn:

Wow. Seems like thats for computer geniuses.

There has to be an easier way for common people like me...LOL.

Are there courses taught on how to do what all you were just saying about Mikrotik?

So it seems like if I want a router from Mikrotik, I could do it two ways:

1. Buy the RouterOS package and put it on a PC. And run the PC to act as a router, at the AP location?

2. Or I could buy a Mikrotik RouterBoard and load RouterOS
onto the RouterBoard. It seems the RouterBoard is the closest thing to getting an appliance-based router from Mikrotik. I guess the RouterBoard has the Wan port and the Local port?

But with the PC, I will need WAN port and Local port connections. From what you were saying at the end of your previous posting, I guess I just add multi-port Ethernet cards to get these two connections?

Regarding running RouterOS to have an AP and CPE, I guess I would have to buy what I have heard you guys call "wrap boards". Seems like thats for computer genius people there...LOL. I'll just stick with Canopy for the AP and CPE part. I'm doing good if I can just figure out how to do the router part...LOL.

So now I guess I have to figure out if I can buy a cost-effective appliance based device to do all the WISP requirements. Or if I can figure out how to do RouterOS on a RouterBoard. Seems that the RouterBoard is the closest thing to an appliance based device from Mikrotik. And is probably much smaller and takes less power then a pc based device.

Thank you for all your input. I'm sure as I hear your further comments from you and others, routers for WISP operations will become more clear...I hope...LOL.

See »wisp-router.com for some MT bundles ready to go, RotuerBoard, RouterOS on flash.

reply to shamanfk
Hi shamanfk:

Regarding the router provided by the upstream provider, would that be an Adtran device (as an example) as is supplied by my local ISP provider? We have one in our office providing fractional T1 services. 4 phone lines and the rest broadband. We also have a business cable service for additioinal broadband for our servers.

Our networking people take care of the server stuff.

I'll try to "draw" what I think your hookup is:

Internet > Adtran router > MikroTik router > AP

That look right?

What are you referring to when you say "complex routing issues"? Why is it more advantageous to use the upstream provider's router to do the routing as opposed to letting the Mikrotik do all the routing? I'm sure there are advantages. I just don't know enough about routers to know what those advantages are...yet. So it must be worth the extra $50 a month to let the upstream provider do the routing.

When you say you are letting the upstream provider do the routing, do you mean NAT and DHCP? But if I'm only going to have one or two APs, wouldn't I just need a public static IP address for each AP, and therefore wouldn't need NAT or DHCP?

"The T-1 provider has been great and notifies us of any problems on the network."

By your previous quote, do you mean your provider pings their router constantly to make sure it is up and working properly?

Thank you so much. I appreciate your help and from you all.

That is my setup as well, though I do not have a managed router.

Internet (T1) -> Cisco 2611 -> Firewall -> Switch -> MT -> APs
                                   | DMZ
                               Mail&Web servers

reply to Airplane777
Your drawing is correct..
We only concern ourselves from the MT-AP-CPE.
We do not NAT or use DHCP..

The provider pings their router constantly, but also monitors traffic,,,once they Identify internet outage, they call us and tell us a restore time..

Personally, I think it is $50/month well spent..

Also, If you have a customer with virus etc..using bandwidth, they will ID the IP for you and give you a chance to get the customer to clean the machine, which in our case generates revenue as we are a repair shop as well.
--
Success is getting what you want; Happiness is wanting what you get.

Hi shamanfk:

Thanks much.

I like the way you have your provider monitoring things for you. Thats a pretty good price for monitoring. It lets you do what you do best and lets your broadband provider do what they do best...and is cost-effective for you too.

Thanks for confirming my drawing. That makes me feel a little more knowledgeable. Although I do need to learn about TCP/IP, etc.

I bought the CD called Learn To Subnet. It looks pretty good. I just need to find more time to listen to more of it. I'll get through it.

Good luck in your WISP operation.