Re: [ Extreme] email smtp going slow ONLY to hotma in Rogers

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sat, 03 Dec 2005 02:43:06 EDT

TLS2000 : The reason for problems getting mail to MSN/Sympatico, according to Microsoft.

»msn-cnet.com.com/Sober+worm+stal···ag=mymsn
--
Tom Murdoch »www.tomscomputers.com

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Fri, 02 Dec 2005 04:34:27 EDT

NormanS : Just an update, with a little experiment I tried. Initially, this was intended to test the official Comcast word that other ISPs than they have blocked outbound mail to MSN servers. I was unable to prove that, as every message but one eventually went through; I am having authentication difficulty with gmx.net. However, all but one that went through to my MSN Hotmail account were delayed by anywhere from an hour and a half to 16 hours, or so.
Comcast is telling their customers that MSN has blamed the problem on viruses clogging their (MSN's) mail system. MSN is keeping quiet.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Thu, 01 Dec 2005 08:55:10 EDT

NormanS :

said by scot1976 :

IT'S A HOTMAIL PROBLEM. Do a google search and read about all the complaints from people sending to hotmail. Micrsoft seems to have done little to fix this issue. I have read about it on many sites.

I don't know. Last night I tried to send myself an email through smtp.pacbell.yahoo.com to one of my MSN Hotmail accounts. It took its sweet time getting there:

X-Message-Status: n
X-SID-PRA: Proper Name <%User_ID%@gmail.invalid>
X-SID-Result: Neutral
X-Message-Info: JGTYoYF78jEnAhgmEGrLO6qbiv44IIcrwhxTSGfct6M=
Received: from mr110.mail.sc5.yahoo.com ([216.136.128.66]) by mc10-f34.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211);
 Thu, 1 Dec 2005 01:00:29 -0800
Received: from smtp101.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com (68.142.198.200)
  by mr1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2005 07:28:16 -0000
Received: (qmail 92047 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2005 07:28:16 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO megumi) (nsmill49@pacbell.net@71.131.210.202 with login)
  by smtp101.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Dec 2005 07:28:15 -0000
Message-ID: <000901c5f648$ca0f3680$6466a8c0@aosake.net>

The last Yahoo! MTA to handle it claims it arrived at 11:30 P.M., but the Hotmail MX claims it received the message from a Yahoo! MTA at 1:00 A.M. the next day; 1.5 hours (less a few seconds) by my math. Which MTA was holding it for that hour and a half, and why? Yahoo!'s MTA was holding it; but I don't know why; could be a problem at MSN Hotmail, where the Yahoo! MTA couldn't connect right away. Could just be congestion in the Yahoo! final stage MTA such that it couldn't even try to connect to MSN Hotmail.

I know only two significant problems regarding MSN Hotmail servers; neither affect me. Users are reporting serious trouble logging in to their Hotmail accounts; but MTAs don't log in to MX servers. Comcast users are seeing their SMTP rejecting email from their users with Hotmail recipients; but the Comcast message submission servers are not controlled by MSN Hotmail.

Oddly, I just tried a different Yahoo! MTA (you normally can't pick your path; but look at these headers, and you will see why I knew the path would be different):

X-Message-Status: n
X-SID-PRA: Proper Name 
X-SID-Result: TempError
X-Message-Info: JGTYoYF78jFrvkpq41rbPKn1W6AdiYdVXMqTk262WxA=
Received: from smtp22.mail.bbt.yahoo.co.jp ([202.93.85.137]) by mc9-f37.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211);
 Thu, 1 Dec 2005 05:37:38 -0800
Received: from unknown (HELO megumi) (%User?ID%@71.131.210.202 with login)
  by smtp22.mail.bbt.yahoo.co.jp with SMTP; 1 Dec 2005 13:36:31 -0000
Message-ID:

1 minute, 7 seconds from the last Yahoo! MTA to handle it until the MSN Hotmail MX got it. Different Yahoo! administrative staff, I am sure.

In any case, either the MSN Hotmail MX doesn't like "mr110.mail.sc5.yahoo.com ([216.136.128.66])" , or that Yahoo! server is in distress.

More oddness: I Bcc'd that Yahoo! Japan message to my Netscape Webmail account; it has not arrived at the Netscape account. Yet. I even checked the Netscape "Spam" folder. It just is not there.

BTW, the hot Comcast thread on their troubles with MSN Hotmail:

»[E-mail] Microsoft Hotmail Blocks Comcast Traffic

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Thu, 01 Dec 2005 07:26:20 EDT

anon : IT'S A HOTMAIL PROBLEM. Do a google search and read about all the complaints from people sending to hotmail. Micrsoft seems to have done little to fix this issue. I have read about it on many sites.

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Thu, 01 Dec 2005 02:14:19 EDT

anon : not resolved because port 25 or 587, my messages are either hours late or not arriving at all still.

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Thu, 17 Nov 2005 14:35:26 EDT

sbrook : Well, I got an answer from Rogers ...

Subject: Your Rogers Yahoo Hi Speed Service issue has been resolved.

That's it, that's all ... no message body! So, whether it was resolved or not is anyone's guess!

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sat, 12 Nov 2005 12:20:24 EDT

NormanS :

said by sbrook :

It appears that the Yahoo! servers involved have been removed from Hotmail's blocklist, but not all. I heard a good one yesterday ... Yahoo! had managed to blacklist for spam one of its own servers!

I expect that could happen, given the fact that Yahoo! allows its users to report spam to whatever group maintains SpamGuard. As of last night, or so, they are also "blacklisting" a Comcast SMTP server with a bad ptr record configuration.

Of course, given this sort of fallout from spam, one should never set one's mail service spam filters to automatically delete "spam"...
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sat, 12 Nov 2005 10:01:51 EDT

sbrook : It appears that the Yahoo! servers involved have been removed from Hotmail's blocklist, but not all. I heard a good one yesterday ... Yahoo! had managed to blacklist for spam one of its own servers!

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sat, 12 Nov 2005 01:54:27 EDT

mordin :

said by NormanS :

That is because Hotmail has no way to tell which SMTP port you use to send email. They are looking at something else in the message, or the headers.

It's not the actual port used but the address of the server it goes through. When we 1st noticed this problem anything I sent using port 25 ended in the junk folder at Hotmail. If I switched to port 587 the email went into the Hotmail inbox. The port used goes through a different server which gives it a different originating IP. For some reason Hotmail was 'flagging' email from some Rogers/Yahoo servers as spam.

All that being said I just sent a test message using both port 25 & 587 and they both end up in the inbox. Looks like they've found & fixed the problem.
--
P4 2.8 800 fsb, Asus P4P800 MoBo w/1Gig PC3200 RAM, 256 Meg GeForce 5600, Sound Blaster Audigy Gamer, DVD-Rom/CD-R Burner & LG Duel layer DVD Burner, 2x 120 Gig Hard Drives

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sat, 12 Nov 2005 00:42:07 EDT

NormanS : That is because Hotmail has no way to tell which SMTP port you use to send email. They are looking at something else in the message, or the headers.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sat, 12 Nov 2005 00:00:54 EDT

drunkgoat : so frustrating, even after I change my port to 587, hotmail is still putting every email i send into the junk folder.

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Fri, 04 Nov 2005 14:26:53 EDT

MacGyver :

said by sbrook :

the support idiot forwarded it to *ROGERS CUSTOMER ABUSE DESK*

;)

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Fri, 04 Nov 2005 13:32:44 EDT

sbrook : Update:

I sent an email to Yahoo! about the problem ... their first response was just like Rogers ... Clearly they didn't read or understand that Rogers Yahoo! was cobranded!

I replied pointing out the relationship in detail and explaining in a "to the point" way what was happening. I got a response indicating that they now understand the issue and have escalated it!

HOORAY!

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sat, 29 Oct 2005 10:13:42 EDT

sbrook : Well, that was profitable ... the support idiot forwarded it to *ROGERS ABUSE DESK* as if they can do anything.

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Fri, 28 Oct 2005 21:44:56 EDT

anon : A problem with Microsoft's Hotmail and MSN email service is preventing users from multiple providers from sending messages to the Microsoft email services.

Users of the mail application in Apple's OS X operating system on Monday started reporting that email messages addressed to Hotmail and MSN addresses weren't being delivered. The problem doesn't occur if a copy of the message is sent to the user's own account. Changing the priority setting from 'normal' to either 'high' or 'low' also provides a workaround, users reported on the forum.

Microsoft was made aware of the issues with Apple users on Tuesday. The company acknowledged the problem and said it has been working on a solution. As of Thursday afternoon there was still no fix and Microsoft couldn't provide any background information on what was causing the problems.
Subscribers of the Comcast broadband internet service reported similar issues last week. The provider started blocking all outgoing email sent to Hotmail and MSN accounts after these messages were queuing up on their servers. The issue was resolved on October 20, as vnunet.com reported earlier this week.

Users of the Canadian broadband providers Rogers and Cogeco have reported similar issues to the ones that face Apple and Comcast clients.

Some user complaints on public fora go back months. Microsoft's refusal to discuss the situation made it impossible to verify those claims and determine if they are related.

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Thu, 27 Oct 2005 18:53:24 EDT

sbrook : Of course a spokesperson for Rogers doesn't know of any issues ... that's because support trash can them before it gets to anyone significant.

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Thu, 27 Oct 2005 18:53:04 EDT

chaos1105 :

said by sbrook :

I received the same stupid response from Rogers email support (different idiot though). My reply follows ...

As usual with problems submitted by email, you DID NOT READ!!!

This is NOTHING to do with the need for an alternate SMTP port. It is about HOTMAIL.COM (and SYMPATICO btw) interpreting mail from *some* of the YAHOO! Mail Transfer Agents (READ SERVERS) as spam. (Which Yahoo! servers our mail goes out from does depend on the port *our* email clients submit mail to the Rogers Yahoo! servers on.)

That is WHY it says that this problem needs to be addressed by Yahoo! (and clearly someone who has passed English Comprehension)

Now, PLEASE refer this problem to Yahoo! and also please forward this to your manager!

lol - nicely said. Those idiots that answer email tech support queries just copy and paste generic answers all day long. I wouldn't be surprised if they just scan through the email quickly looking for keywords and guessing what the problem may potentially be. Their phone tech support is OK if you compare the utter pain of having to deal with the email tech support team.
--
HOW TO MOST EFFECTIVELY COMPLAIN TO ROGERS ABOUT THE BANDWIDTH LIMIT!

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Thu, 27 Oct 2005 18:34:59 EDT

vladnik : It appears that you're not the only one. According to this news story other providers are facing the same issues.

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Wed, 26 Oct 2005 18:00:46 EDT

sbrook : I sent the following to Yahoo!'s customer care ... Cross your fingers ...

I have tried to get this through Rogers Yahoo! support, but the folks at Rogers just don't seem to understand and keep returning irrelevent answers.

Some of the output MTAs used by Yahoo! (particularly those used when mail is submitted from Rogers clients on port 80 as opposed to those used with port 587) are being considered by Hotmail and Sympatico.ca as sources of spam.

Therefore mail from Rogers Yahoo! users to Hotmail.com or Sympatico.ca addresses are either not arriving, arriving extremely delayed, or arriving with a [SPAM] tag in the subject.

Would you please contact the Hotmail.com (who handle mail for Sympatico.ca just as you handle mail for Rogers.com) people and attempt to get all of the MTAs removed from Hotmail's blocklists?

Thank you

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Wed, 26 Oct 2005 17:49:14 EDT

sbrook : I received the same stupid response from Rogers email support (different idiot though). My reply follows ...

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Wed, 26 Oct 2005 15:20:01 EDT

UnrealArcher : Well, this issue has made front page news here now...

And yeah, Rogers Support is full of twits. Whenever I have a problem with them now, I just silently hope it'll go away within a few weeks because trying to deal with their support usually leaves me wanting to crack the phone in my hand. ;)

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Wed, 26 Oct 2005 06:51:09 EDT

sbrook : The email support people are so utterly clueless it's downright sad. And there are a couple of people answering these support questions who probably shouldn't even be touching computers. They pick on keywords in your mail and churn out a canned answer based on that. In this case, beyond a doubt they picked "SMTP" and "port".

I have butted heads so many times with email support that it hurts ... every time I've had to invoke Rogers management to get it fixed.

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Wed, 26 Oct 2005 03:21:07 EDT

mordin :

said by NormanS :

He thinks you are writing about port 25 blocking. He didn't seem to grasp the fact that you are complaining about MSN Hotmail refusing to accept email from the Rogers-Yahoo! output SMTP servers.

Told them in the 1st email that it was my Rogers account, using Rogers SMTP servers. I replied to them repeating the information and added the Hotmail response. Rogers, Yahoo and Hotmail need to get together and fix the problem. Not for us here as we've found a couple work around but for other people not as technically inclined. Most don't even know there's a problem until something important goes missing.
--
P4 2.8 800 fsb, Asus P4P800 MoBo w/1Gig PC3200 RAM, 256 Meg GeForce 5600, Sound Blaster Audigy Gamer, DVD-Rom/CD-R Burner & LG Duel layer DVD Burner, 2x 120 Gig Hard Drives

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Wed, 26 Oct 2005 01:35:19 EDT

NormanS :

said by mordin :

I like the 'Please refer to your email service provider to determine availability of an alternate SMTP port".... you ARE my service provider you dumb twit!!!

Well, I won't debate whether he is dumb, or not; he clearly failed to understand your problem. He thinks you are writing about port 25 blocking. He didn't seem to grasp the fact that you are complaining about MSN Hotmail refusing to accept email from the Rogers-Yahoo! output SMTP servers.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Wed, 26 Oct 2005 00:51:33 EDT

mordin : Just got a reply from Rogers:

Thank-you for your email. We strive to provide you with the highest level of customer support, and hope we can be of assistance in addressing your questions.

We sympathize with your situation. As part of an industry-wide initiative to limit the amount of spam generated within a given Internet Service Provider's network, we have implemented a small security change to the way that e-mail is sent through your cable modem. All customers who exclusively send e-mail through the standard Rogers Yahoo! e-mail servers will enjoy the benefits of this security measure without having their ability to send e-mail impacted.

It appears that your account is one of the few which has been affected. However, we have a number of options which will restore your ability to send e-mail through servers other than those of Rogers Yahoo! Hi-Speed
Internet.

Please refer to the following three options:

1. Use your existing SMTP server on an alternate port

2. Use the authenticated Rogers Yahoo! Email server

3. Use alternate email access services such as Rogers Yahoo! Webmail or other Webmail services.

Because the blocking of port 25 is now common place across many major ISPs, several email service providers and universities now provide support for user's to access their SMTP servers on ports other than 25. Many of these servers can now be accessed using port 465 or port 587.

Some major providers and universities who have indicated that they support alternate ports include:

· .Mac (port 587)

· Google Mail (port 465)

· Yahoo (port 587)

· Carleton University (port 465)

· University of New Brunswick (port 465)

· University of Waterloo (port 465)

· University of Western Ontario (port 465)

Please refer to your email service provider to determine availability of an alternate SMTP port.

Specific configuration instructions can be found at
»www.rogershelp.com/smtp

If you have any further questions or comments regarding our service, please fill out the online form on our Customer Support page listed below or contact us by phone at 1-888-288-4663.

Sincerely,
Chris V.
Rogers Yahoo! Hi-Speed Internet
Electronic Support Group

I like the 'Please refer to your email service provider to determine availability of an alternate SMTP port".... you ARE my service provider you dumb twit!!!
--
P4 2.8 800 fsb, Asus P4P800 MoBo w/1Gig PC3200 RAM, 256 Meg GeForce 5600, Sound Blaster Audigy Gamer, DVD-Rom/CD-R Burner & LG Duel layer DVD Burner, 2x 120 Gig Hard Drives

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Tue, 25 Oct 2005 22:15:47 EDT

sbrook : That's a standard answer for Hotmail ... They're like Rogers and don't have a clue. This takes Yahoo! to contact Hotmail.

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Tue, 25 Oct 2005 22:12:20 EDT

mordin : Got a rely from Hotmail. It sounds like they think Rogers is some small unknown ISP.

"Thank you for writing to MSN Hotmail Technical Support.

Before anything else, I would like to apologize for the delay in responding to your e-mail. Every message that Hotmail receives is very important. We recently received an extremely high volume of e-mail messages and are working diligently to catch up.

My name is Alex and I understand that you are having an issue on receiving e-mail from broadband.rogers.com. You mentioned that when e-mail sent to your account used port 25, the e-mail is received as junk e-mail while port 587 is used, the e-mail is received in your Inbox. I understand the importance of this matter to you.

For us to further investigate this issue, please advise the administrator of rogers.com to contact Hotmail's Domain Delivery Support team by filling out the information in »advertising.msn.com/adproducts/E···Dupe.asp and send your their answers to: nocmail@microsoft.com

You are valuable to MSN and we look forward to providing you with consistent and effective service. If you have any inquiries, please do not hesitate to write back.

Have a nice day.

Sincerely,

Alex A.
MSN Hotmail Technical Support"
--
P4 2.8 800 fsb, Asus P4P800 MoBo w/1Gig PC3200 RAM, 256 Meg GeForce 5600, Sound Blaster Audigy Gamer, DVD-Rom/CD-R Burner & LG Duel layer DVD Burner, 2x 120 Gig Hard Drives

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sun, 23 Oct 2005 22:52:03 EDT

mordin :

said by niagarak :

Perhaps it would be worth it to also send a message to Hotmail support? Here's the url: »support.msn.com/contactus.aspx?p···=hotmail

Just sent one to them. Maybe between both Rogers & Hotmail the issue will be fixed.
--
P4 2.8 800 fsb, Asus P4P800 MoBo w/1Gig PC3200 RAM, 256 Meg GeForce 5600, Sound Blaster Audigy Gamer, DVD-Rom/CD-R Burner & LG Duel layer DVD Burner, 2x 120 Gig Hard Drives

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sun, 23 Oct 2005 22:25:04 EDT

niagarak : Perhaps it would be worth it to also send a message to Hotmail support? Here's the url: »support.msn.com/contactus.aspx?p···=hotmail

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sun, 23 Oct 2005 22:12:07 EDT

UnrealArcher : sbrook et al, I wish you guys luck with getting this resolved (I rarely, if ever have to send email from Rogers to a Hotmail). Glad that someone was able to figure it out, and at least now we know what the issue is.

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sun, 23 Oct 2005 21:47:02 EDT

NormanS : Actually, I am surprised that MSN Hotmail unilaterally decided to set the accounts to "Immediate delete". I have two MSN Hotmail accounts, but only one was set to "Exclusive" and "Immediate delete"; by my choice. I will have to remember to bring that up when people are having issues with email to an MSN Hotmail account.

I wish you success with Rogers email administrators. This is also an issue for we SBC Yahoo! DSL Service customers; from time to time the SBC output mail servers get caught in blocks, and we have to rattle our administrators' chains. As nearly as I can determine, it is for "backscatter", and email to spam trap email addresses. Although SBC normally rejects email to "unknown" users, it will "bounce" email to forged sender email addresses if the recipient is a known, but disabled SBC email account. It is this bouncing to forged senders which is the source of the problem of getting output servers into blocks.

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:55:27 EDT

mordin : I also forwarded the header from the email that ended in the spam folder to Rogers email tech support referring to the original email I sent them.

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:46:15 EDT

sbrook : I just forwarded this message to Rogers internet support ... cross your fingers ...

This problem needs to be addressed by Yahoo!

Mail being sent to hotmail.com addresses was failing to be delievered. It was discovered that after turning off spam protection, that the mail was being detected as spam.

Mail sent to Rogers-Yahoo!'s Mail Submission Agent (MSA) using port 25 gets forwarded out through Mail Transmission Agent (MTA) mr112 hotmail is treating as instant spam

The *same* mail sent to the same Rogers-Yahoo! MTA using port 587 gets forwarded out through a different MTA (mr119 or others) which hotmail accepts fine.

Here's the relevent header for the port 25 submission.

Received: from mr112.mail.sc5.yahoo.com ([216.136.128.68]) by mc5-f5.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sun, 23 Oct 2005 16:57:32 -0700

It would appear that Yahoo! needs to talk with Hotmail to get the IP address of mr112 removed from their spam blacklist.

Thank you

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:09:37 EDT

sbrook : Well well well ... thank you Mordin ... that explains what's happening.

I hadn't noticed that Hotmail had implemented that change ... I have to admit I wondered why the spam to that account stopped ... I wishfully hoped the spammers had got tired!

Now it appears in moments and goes to the junk mailbox.

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sun, 23 Oct 2005 19:26:12 EDT

mordin :

said by NormanS :

said by UnrealArcher :
I just did a test using both port 25 and port 587... funnily enough, Hotmail routed my port 25 email to my Junk Mail, and my port 587 was delivered straight to my Inbox.

Ah, now there's the clue!

SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM (sung in my best Monty Python immitation)

sbrook log into your Hotmail account, click 'Options' on the top right, then click 'Junk E-Mail Protection' in the list. The 2nd option should be 'Delete junk e-mail' - select it and see if yours is set to 'Delete junk e-mail immediately'. Mine was and after changing it to 'Deliver to Junk E-Mail folder and delete later' and guess what... email now sent from port 25 goes to the junk folder. I then checked the level of the spam filters and they were set to 'Enhanced'. By dropping it to 'Low' the emails show up in the inbox.

It shows that for some reason email sent on port 587 has no problems but on port 25 they are seen as spam. Could be because of the same reasons some ISPs are blocking outgoing email on port 25 for 3rd party servers. Either way it needs to be fixed.

Now what pisses me off is I know Hotmail upgraded their spam filters not too long ago. I have never changed them as I never thought I had any problems but by default they were set to delete any email they deemed as spam. What prompted me to look is I had signed up for a site and the conformation email came through but a couple others since then haven't. Now I wonder how many emails I have missed/lost because MSN Hotmail decided they knew better than I what I wanted labeled as spam and were over aggressive with their filters.
--
P4 2.8 800 fsb, Asus P4P800 MoBo w/1Gig PC3200 RAM, 256 Meg GeForce 5600, Sound Blaster Audigy Gamer, DVD-Rom/CD-R Burner & LG Duel layer DVD Burner, 2x 120 Gig Hard Drives

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sun, 23 Oct 2005 16:54:13 EDT

sbrook : That makes SOME sense, but still, for some of us, sending to hotmail is sending mail to a black hole, while for others, it's getting through ... albeit either ... straight away, or straight away with a SPAM tag.

And what is odd is that it is CONSISTENT. I have now sent about 6 mails to hotmail via port 25 over the last 34 hours, and they're all in that black hole. (Sent via port 587 gets there in no time).

And yet for niagarak and unrealarcher mail is going straight away on port 25 ... albeit for unreal with the spam tag.

So, obviously hotmail is handling the different Mail Transfer Agents very differently but what is it that Rogers Yahoo! Mail Submission Agents is keying on to make the decision which MTA to route mail with other than input port. Clearly when sent on 587 it departs Yahoo! on an MTA not blocked by Hotmail

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:24:26 EDT

NormanS :

said by sbrook :

niagarak, can you tell us which email client you used and how you specified the sending port?

I am not he, but...

Both messages show this:

User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716)

Slightly out of date version of Mozilla Thunderbird. In Thunderbird, you would go to Tools > Account Settings, and click on the "Advanced" tab; as shown in Figure 1.

OTOH, you would no more be able to tell which message went through which port than with any other email client.

said by UnrealArcher :

I just did a test using both port 25 and port 587... funnily enough, Hotmail routed my port 25 email to my Junk Mail, and my port 587 was delivered straight to my Inbox.

Ah, now there's the clue!

Port 25 message was delivered to MSN Hotmail thus:

Received: from mr116.mail.sc5.yahoo.com ([216.136.129.77])
  by mc2-f39.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211);
  Sun, 23 Oct 2005 10:40:17 -0700

Port 587 message was delivered to MSN Hotmail thus:

Received: from mr119.mail.sc5.yahoo.com ([216.136.129.80])
  by mc5-f28.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211);
  Sun, 23 Oct 2005 10:41:15 -0700

Apparently, MSN Hotmail thinks that Yahoo! Mail output server "mr116.mail.sc5.yahoo.com" is a spam source, but that Yahoo! Mail output server "mr119.mail.sc5.yahoo.com" is okay.

Yahoo! mail administrators need to take this up with MSN Hotmail.

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Figure 1.

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sun, 23 Oct 2005 13:48:25 EDT

UnrealArcher : I just did a test using both port 25 and port 587... funnily enough, Hotmail routed my port 25 email to my Junk Mail, and my port 587 was delivered straight to my Inbox.

Anyways, the headers for both:

Port 25:

MIME-Version: 1.0 
Received: from mr116.mail.sc5.yahoo.com ([216.136.129.77]) by mc2-f39.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sun, 23 Oct 2005 10:40:17 -0700 
Received: from smtp100.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com (206.190.36.78) by mr1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Oct 2005 17:40:17 -0000 
Received: (qmail 8553 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2005 17:40:16 -0000 
Received: from unknown (HELO archer) ([REMOVED] @70.XXX.XXX.79 with login) by smtp100.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Oct 2005 17:40:16 -0000 
X-Message-Info: 6sSXyD95QpU/CiUvb830C5P7v82X6mvuT4qh3RGoOpo= 
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal 
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 
Return-Path: [REMOVED] 
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Oct 2005 17:40:17.0500 (UTC) FILETIME=[D4FAE1C0:01C5D7F8]

Port 587:

MIME-Version: 1.0 
Received: from mr119.mail.sc5.yahoo.com ([216.136.129.80]) by mc5-f28.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sun, 23 Oct 2005 10:41:15 -0700 
Received: from smtp105.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com (206.190.36.83) by mr1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Oct 2005 17:41:15 -0000 
Received: (qmail 32427 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2005 17:41:14 -0000 
Received: from unknown (HELO archer) ([REMOVED]@70.XXX.XXX.79 with login) by smtp105.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Oct 2005 17:41:14 -0000 
X-Message-Info: 6sSXyD95QpWa4GoAPnb0q5cuBjIYLnnEaT08vvZdzJM= 
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal 
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 
Return-Path: [REMOVED]
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Oct 2005 17:41:15.0399 (UTC) FILETIME=[F77D9170:01C5D7F8]

Both showed up instantaneously, and were sent out over smtp.broadband.rogers.com

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sun, 23 Oct 2005 13:36:57 EDT

sbrook : 30 hours later and I'm still waiting for the mail sent via port 25.

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sun, 23 Oct 2005 13:35:41 EDT

sbrook : niagarak, can you tell us which email client you used and how you specified the sending port?

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sun, 23 Oct 2005 13:10:40 EDT

niagarak : Here are the 2 full headers, firt for port 587, then port 25:

From : 	Nameremoved 
Sent : 	October 23, 2005 5:01:27 PM
To : 	nameremoved 
Subject : 	Port 587
 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from mr100.mail.sc5.yahoo.com ([216.136.128.55]) by mc5-f9.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sun, 23 Oct 2005 10:01:33 -0700
Received: from smtp104.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com (206.190.36.82) by mr1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Oct 2005 17:01:33 -0000
Received: (qmail 9618 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2005 17:01:32 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO ?69.XXX.XX.232?) (nameremoved@rogers.com@69.XXX.XX.232 with plain) by smtp104.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Oct 2005 17:01:32 -0000
X-Message-Info: 6sSXyD95QpUYtyjyajg/yTMUe+iomMtjCTh3X2NDpZg=
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:X-Accept-Language:MIME-Version:To:Subject:Content-Type; b=ieKvlnKoFvGYfHJQYeRvsEvbGbISIpSXge+oBL22KkpDiC9PQodxT6xs4EvBH8D8p9j01ZyaWglKXscp9COEplkr+z/FAZlODoa92ftdA3yK+6C0bdtnno+b2rOtfWvGhh210fDo6o02b6D1fap9I/AC9s7FxPHBy31pL/btxBc= ;
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
Return-Path: nameremoved@rogers.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Oct 2005 17:01:33.0849 (UTC) FILETIME=[6BF9E090:01C5D7F3]

----------

From : 	Nameremoved 
Sent : 	October 23, 2005 5:01:56 PM
To : 	nameremoved 
Subject : 	Port 25
	
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: from mr111.mail.sc5.yahoo.com ([216.136.128.67]) by mc3-f32.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sun, 23 Oct 2005 10:01:59 -0700
Received: from smtp104.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com (206.190.36.82) by mr1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Oct 2005 17:01:58 -0000
Received: (qmail 10684 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2005 17:01:58 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO ?69.XXX.XX.232?) (nameremoved@rogers.com@69.XXX.XX.232 with plain) by smtp104.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Oct 2005 17:01:58 -0000
X-Message-Info: 6sSXyD95QpUlir6Y6Y/9qHZkXS85DpK0oRXWSqf2vDM=
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:X-Accept-Language:MIME-Version:To:Subject:Content-Type; b=uNs8p/SJpH6VXpw1Oy3N/PJ614BU8+Z3TZc9YFvQF1NwZ/Q4BO11xfZNQygmcfyVhufrwMqrJh4krCf8aP6vO/bDJbvdJWdQe16HdnyzA/FuNJ0xt98l+XTUiy8jcAQIuCTwQRPAscWb2zltdWIpD4SHHT0I/ue2c1kFuJynJT4= ;
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
Return-Path: nameremoved@rogers.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Oct 2005 17:01:59.0242 (UTC) FILETIME=[7B1C8AA0:01C5D7F3]

I hope this helps to figure out what is going on.

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:18:38 EDT

sbrook : niagarak ... please post the full headers (editing out your identifying info please ... of a mail that goes straight through for you on port 25 and one that goes straight through on port 587.

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sun, 23 Oct 2005 04:55:09 EDT

NormanS :

said by mordin :

That being said I don't think the problem is actually with the port number used but with the server the email is router through.

Exactly.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sun, 23 Oct 2005 02:11:10 EDT

mordin :

said by niagarak :

That may be true for some people, but it isn't for me -- in both cases the messages sent through smtp.broadband.rogers.com get to Hotmail right away.

As stated in an earlier post not all people are having any problems. In an earlier post you were having problems while using port 587 that have been fixed. In the case of sbrook and I the problem is with port 25.

That being said I don't think the problem is actually with the port number used but with the server the email is router through. Which servers used would vary depending on where you are and/or what ports you are using.
--
P4 2.8 800 fsb, Asus P4P800 MoBo w/1Gig PC3200 RAM, 256 Meg GeForce 5600, Sound Blaster Audigy Gamer, DVD-Rom/CD-R Burner & LG Duel layer DVD Burner, 2x 120 Gig Hard Drives

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sun, 23 Oct 2005 01:58:06 EDT

NormanS :

said by mordin :

The 2 servers you show are mr110 & mr114. Of my 2 emails that got to Hotmail they show mr107 & mr204 so there goes your 'two different Yahoo! output servers'. Most likely they have dozens of servers. Which ones used depend on where & through who the email was sent.

You are also sending from smtp.pacbell.yahoo.com, port 587. It has already been said the problem we are talking about is when sending from smtp.broadband.rogers.com. Use port 25 and the email is lost. Use port 587 and it goes through right away.

Actually, my theory was not predicated on there only being two Yahoo! output servers. There are several dozen, at least; MSN Hotmail may only have had issues with two, or three. That would make the results of any testing turn out to be as spotty as is actually the case. When I set up SpamCop with "Mailhosts", and configured my Yahoo! accounts, I came up with an arm's length list of Yahoo! output SMTP servers. See Figure 1. And note that the list is for my SBC-Y account, does not include a free Yahoo! Mail account, and a free Yahoo! Japan mail account; the list of servers shown is, by no means, exhaustive.

Which server I am sending through is only material if the pickup servers don't eventually go to the same output servers. Neither you, nor I, have the competence, the knowledge of the Yahoo! SMTP server farm, to say if Yahoo! will never map from two different pickup servers to the same output server. In any case, my illustration was intended to show that there will be different output servers; and I did not mean to convey the idea that only two are involved. If I repeated my test two minutes, two hours, or even two days later, I would show different Yahoo! output servers.

Yahoo! has enough output servers that some can wind up in blocks, while most don't.

Again, which port you use is of no consequence. Probably not even which server; with the possible exception that there could be a difference between national locations. That is, the output servers may be differentiated more by region than by ISP. I expect only the pickup servers are segegrated by ISP.

What it all comes down to is that it is likely a Yahoo! problem. It may be related to blocks by MSN Hotmail, it may be related to configuration errors in the server farm, such that email from a given pickup server is not progressing to an output server in a timely fashion. Changing ports won't help becuase it is the actual pickup server, intermediary transfer server, or output server which has the problem.

Figure 1.

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sun, 23 Oct 2005 00:45:51 EDT

niagarak : "Use port 25 and the email is lost. Use port 587 and it goes through right away."

That may be true for some people, but it isn't for me -- in both cases the messages sent through smtp.broadband.rogers.com get to Hotmail right away.

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sun, 23 Oct 2005 00:24:30 EDT

mordin :

said by NormanS :

Using smtp.pacbell.yahoo.com, port 587: Yahoo! output server: mr110.mail.sc5.yahoo.com

Using smtp.pacbell.yahoo.com, port 25: Yahoo! output server: mr114.mail.sc5.yahoo.com
Transit time: 2 seconds

The 2 servers you show are mr110 & mr114. Of my 2 emails that got to Hotmail they show mr107 & mr204 so there goes your 'two different Yahoo! output servers'. Most likely they have dozens of servers. Which ones used depend on where & through who the email was sent.

You are also sending from smtp.pacbell.yahoo.com, port 587. It has already been said the problem we are talking about is when sending from smtp.broadband.rogers.com. Use port 25 and the email is lost. Use port 587 and it goes through right away.
--
P4 2.8 800 fsb, Asus P4P800 MoBo w/1Gig PC3200 RAM, 256 Meg GeForce 5600, Sound Blaster Audigy Gamer, DVD-Rom/CD-R Burner & LG Duel layer DVD Burner, 2x 120 Gig Hard Drives

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sat, 22 Oct 2005 18:18:50 EDT

sbrook : Port 587 ...

Received: from mr113.mail.sc5.yahoo.com ([216.136.128.69]) by MC6-F37.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sat, 22 Oct 2005 08:41:43 -0700

Still waiting for port 25 mail.

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sat, 22 Oct 2005 18:01:31 EDT

NormanS : Using smtp.pacbell.yahoo.com, port 587:

X-Message-Status: n
X-SID-PRA: My Name <%User_ID%@gmail.com>
X-SID-Result: Neutral
X-Message-Info: JGTYoYF78jHTKYy6EEj2VZ1iw3ze6FwLPQ6etipuMdY=
Received: from mr110.mail.sc5.yahoo.com ([216.136.128.66]) by mc3-f16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211);
 Sat, 22 Oct 2005 14:46:45 -0700
Received: from smtp109.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com (68.142.198.208)
  by mr1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Oct 2005 21:46:44 -0000
Received: (qmail 22454 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2005 21:46:44 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO megumi) (%User_ID%@pacbell.net@71.132.8.90 with login)
  by smtp109.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Oct 2005 21:46:43 -0000
Message-ID: <001501c5d752$16723240$6466a8c0@aosake.net>
Reply-To: "My Name" 
From: "My Name" <%User_ID%@gmail.com>
To: "My Name" <%User_ID%@hotmail.com>
Subject: Port 587 email submission.
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 14:46:34 -0700

Yahoo! output server: mr110.mail.sc5.yahoo.com
Transit time: 3 seconds

Using smtp.pacbell.yahoo.com, port 25:

X-Message-Status: n
X-SID-PRA: My Name <%User_ID%@gmail.com>
X-SID-Result: Neutral
X-Message-Info: JGTYoYF78jFrouEnkTJfNhRfuA9Rs84l7rrdEIMhiQA=
Received: from mr114.mail.sc5.yahoo.com ([216.136.128.70]) by MC6-F8.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211);
 Sat, 22 Oct 2005 14:45:15 -0700
Received: from smtp113.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com (68.142.198.212)
  by mr1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Oct 2005 21:45:14 -0000
Received: (qmail 52357 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2005 21:45:14 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO megumi) (%User_ID%@pacbell.net@71.132.8.90 with login)
  by smtp113.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Oct 2005 21:45:13 -0000
Message-ID: <000901c5d751$e0965ac0$6466a8c0@aosake.net>
Reply-To: "My Name" 
From: "My Name" <%User_ID%@gmail.com>
To: "My Name" <%User_ID%@hotmail.com>
Subject: Port 25 email submission
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 14:39:13 -0700

Yahoo! output server: mr114.mail.sc5.yahoo.com
Transit time: 2 seconds

There are two different Yahoo! output servers. There are two different Yahoo! message submission servers. There are two different Yahoo! intermediary servers. Without looking at my Subject line (which I added to keep track of which port I used), there is no way to tell which message was sent through which port.

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sat, 22 Oct 2005 16:59:13 EDT

niagarak : Just sent 2 test emails to Hotmail as well, one through port 25, one through port 587. Both showed up right away.

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sat, 22 Oct 2005 16:30:19 EDT

sbrook : Yup ... me too. I'm waiting for a port 25 sent message to compare headers.

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sat, 22 Oct 2005 15:17:18 EDT

mordin : Just sent 2 new test emails. The 1st using port 587 shows up right away. The 2nd using port 25 didn't show up. None of the 5 emails I've sent over the past 4 days using port 25 have shown up. So there is still problems somewhere.
--
P4 2.8 800 fsb, Asus P4P800 MoBo w/1Gig PC3200 RAM, 256 Meg GeForce 5600, Sound Blaster Audigy Gamer, DVD-Rom/CD-R Burner & LG Duel layer DVD Burner, 2x 120 Gig Hard Drives

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sat, 22 Oct 2005 13:13:16 EDT

niagarak : As I mentioned in a previous post, I've been using port 587 for a few months and still my messages to Hotmail were delayed or most often did not show up in my account there. So, it does seem that the problem wasn't in all cases the use or non-use of port 25 or 587. In any case, in the last few days, the problem with Hotmail has been fixed. Here is what Hotmail support wrote to me today regarding my complaint I had sent them a few days ago: "Your e-mail provider, rogers.com, has merged its e-mail services with Yahoo.com. We have received feedbacks from our members that they are experiencing issues receiving messages from Yahoo. In this regards, our engineers have made some fix to resolve this issue. You should now be able to receive messages from into your account properly."

And indeed, my messages to Hotmail now show up in my account there within a few seconds. Hotmail, a free service, answered me and apparently fixed the problem. Now if only Rogers, a service for which I pay, could do the same for my problem sending messages to Sympatico.

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sat, 22 Oct 2005 11:37:34 EDT

NormanS :

said by mordin :

Did you read all the posts?? I have sent 4 emails from my PC using Rogers servers & port 25. 2 on the 17th and 2 on the 18th - none of them have shown up in the inbox or the spam folder. Change the smtp.broadband.rogers.com default port 25 to 587 and an email shows up right away. Hotmail doesn't seem to be 'blocking one server', as you say, because not everyone is having the problem.

Whatever is going on, port 587 is not detectable by MSN Hotmail. Period. Once the Rogers SMTP servers have picked up the email, there is no way to tell which message submission servers were used to accept the email. Period.

said by sbrook :

There definitely IS a difference and it's occuring in the Yahoo! system ... mail submitted on port 587 is being delivered promptly. Mail submitted on port 25 is being delayed at the point of delivery to hotmail. Why the difference? Not sure ... they appear to use the same outbound server to hotmail. (I'm going to check that one out again)

The Yahoo! mail system uses several different output servers. At least that is my experience with both a free Yahoo! Mail account, and the SBC Yahoo! DSL Service mail accounts.

You can tell from the headers of the messages which go through the Yahoo! mail system. Look for the line "Received: from (Yahoo!_output_server_name [IP_Address]) by (MSN_Hotmail_MX_server_name)".

There is no way for MSN Hotmail to tell what port was used to submit a message. They can only check the rDNS name/IP address of the MTA transferring the message from the Rogers-Yahoo! mail system. It is the output server name, not the port used, which will make the difference in how the receiving SMTP system handles the email.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sat, 22 Oct 2005 10:38:18 EDT

sbrook : Normans

There definitely IS a difference and it's occuring in the Yahoo! system ... mail submitted on port 587 is being delivered promptly. Mail submitted on port 25 is being delayed at the point of delivery to hotmail. Why the difference? Not sure ... they appear to use the same outbound server to hotmail. (I'm going to check that one out again)

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sat, 22 Oct 2005 04:19:43 EDT

mordin :

said by NormanS :

Of course, Rogers may be using different output servers to handle port 25 message submission and port 587 message submission; and MSN Hotmail be be selective blocking one server, but not the other server. Changing the email submission port will not change the blockage on the output SMTP server.

Did you read all the posts?? I have sent 4 emails from my PC using Rogers servers & port 25. 2 on the 17th and 2 on the 18th - none of them have shown up in the inbox or the spam folder. Change the smtp.broadband.rogers.com default port 25 to 587 and an email shows up right away. Hotmail doesn't seem to be 'blocking one server', as you say, because not everyone is having the problem.
--
P4 2.8 800 fsb, Asus P4P800 MoBo w/1Gig PC3200 RAM, 256 Meg GeForce 5600, Sound Blaster Audigy Gamer, DVD-Rom/CD-R Burner & LG Duel layer DVD Burner, 2x 120 Gig Hard Drives

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Sat, 22 Oct 2005 03:54:59 EDT

NormanS :

said by suffocated_dave :

i think its best to lodge a complaint at rogers to possibly open/use another port since its clear 587 is having problems with spam filtering to hotmail. the tech support even said that im one of the first to complain about the issue and that she doubted theyd do anything major about it on their end without further proof of problems.

The MSN Hotmail servers have no idea which port you are using for email submission. Once the Rogers SMTP service has the email, the submission port is no longer part of the equation.

Of course, Rogers may be using different output servers to handle port 25 message submission and port 587 message submission; and MSN Hotmail be be selective blocking one server, but not the other server. Changing the email submission port will not change the blockage on the output SMTP server.

It may also be a configuration error within the Rogers SMTP system, where message hand off is having problems. Again, changing the email submission port will not fix things.

Whether it is selective blocking by MSN Hotmail, or internal Rogers delays, Rogers administrators need to sort it out.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:19:52 EDT

sbrook : It's port 25 (the standard port) that's having mega problems.

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Fri, 21 Oct 2005 07:21:27 EDT

anon : i think its best to lodge a complaint at rogers to possibly open/use another port since its clear 587 is having problems with spam filtering to hotmail. the tech support even said that im one of the first to complain about the issue and that she doubted theyd do anything major about it on their end without further proof of problems.

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Fri, 21 Oct 2005 02:23:45 EDT

niagarak : It seems that my messages to sympatico are being held on the yahoo/rogers server as indicated in the following excerpt from the email my friend received from me (in this case a message sent at 19:53 on October 17 was received by the Bell server a few minutes past midnight on October 19):

Received: from mr116.mail.sc5.yahoo.com ([216.136.129.77])
by toip6.bellnexxia.net with SMTP; 19 Oct 2005 00:09:21 -0400
Received: from smtp103.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com (206.190.36.81)
by mr1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Oct 2005 23:53:42 -0000

Rogers still has not replied to my complaint regarding this problem

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:44:44 EDT

mordin : Tested port 587 and the email shows up right away. Guess the problem is related to using port 25 as the other 4 email still haven't shown up.

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:53:35 EDT

niagarak : As I've posted by mistake in a new thread, I also have been having problems with my Rogers email recently (I'm in the Riverdale area of Toronto). Messages to Hotmail sometimes get there in a few minutes, but most often never do (even though I use smtp.broadband.rogers.com. port 587 as my outgoing server). I've already asked Hotmail to look into it but haven't got a reply yet. Also, a friend on sympatico.ca has started receiving my messages hours or even days later, if they even make it to his account. I am trying to figure out where the problem lies by looking at the full headers of my messages (which my friend can forward back to me). I hope to figure out if my messages are being held up within Rogers' servers or Sympatico's before I call tech "support".

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:02:49 EDT

sbrook : Using the Alternate port 587 does work. I tried it today myself and the mail moved to hotmail instantaneous.

Check with your mail client outgoing server settings on how to include a port number. For many it's smtp.broadband.rogers.com:587

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:02:06 EDT

anon : Strange i just tried sending to Hotmail via Rogers smtp and it arrived in about 7 mins. I wonder if the problem depends on the hotmail server your account resides on?

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:12:37 EDT

mordin : Mine to my Hotmail account still haven't shown up after 48 hr. There's 4 lost email out there now. :(

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:01:17 EDT

mepadre : I sent an email to a hotmail user on Monday morning. They replied this morning and said they just received my message. Seems like this happens quite a bit. Other than hotmail, Rogers mail servers suit my needs quite well.

Re: [ Extreme] email smtp going slow ONLY to hotma

Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:55:40 EDT

GI Suck : Anyone checked with SpamCop or SpamHaus or something like that to see if we have been blacklisted?

Re: [ Extreme] email smtp going slow ONLY to hotma

Wed, 19 Oct 2005 02:28:00 EDT

mordin : 30 hrs later and the email tests (have now sent 4) have NOT shown up in my Hotmail account. Emailed Tech support basically saying:

I think there's a problem with the email sending between Rogers & Hotmail. I send an email out from my PC to a Hotmail address using smtp.broadband.rogers.com, the email goes out but after 30 hrs it hasn't shown up at Hotmail. If I send from the webmail page or using smtp.mail.yahoo.ca:587 the email shows up right away. Email sent from the Hotmail account does show up at the Rogers account so the problem is only 1 way.
--
P4 2.8 800 fsb, Asus P4P800 MoBo w/1Gig PC3200 RAM, 256 Meg GeForce 5600, Sound Blaster Audigy Gamer, DVD-Rom/CD-R Burner & LG Duel layer DVD Burner, 2x 120 Gig Hard Drives

Re: [ Extreme] email smtp going slow ONLY to hotma

Tue, 18 Oct 2005 03:33:55 EDT

mordin : 10 hrs later and 2 email sent from my Rogers account to Hotmail still haven't shown up. Found an earlier thread by sbrook about using smtp.mail.yahoo.ca:587 as the outgoing server, so I changed to that and sent a 3rd test and it shows up in minutes. :o
--
P4 2.8 800 fsb, Asus P4P800 MoBo w/1Gig PC3200 RAM, 256 Meg GeForce 5600, Sound Blaster Audigy Gamer, DVD-Rom/CD-R Burner & LG Duel layer DVD Burner, 2x 120 Gig Hard Drives

Re: [ Extreme] email smtp going slow ONLY to hotma

Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:32:06 EDT

pulp39 : Holy carp! I just received an email, with no sender, dated Dec. 31 1969, with an attached pic I had sent to someone else days ago, including the same file name!

High weirdness!!!

Edit***

Forgot to mention the pic was the only thing in the email. No headers, no sender and no text.

--
"Rogers needs to buy the CN Tower and call it Rogers Tower. This way, TED can shoot laser beams out his ass to our modems when we go over 100 Gigs." - MoeB -
LMFFAO!!!

Re: [ Extreme] email smtp going slow ONLY to hotma

Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:16:50 EDT

anon : sbrook, i actually found one of your older posts on this issue and have since switched to one of yahoos SMTP's that you told someone else to try. now people with @hotmail domains get my emails 1-2 hours after i send them.

Re: [ Extreme] email smtp going slow ONLY to hotma

Mon, 17 Oct 2005 20:24:28 EDT

sbrook : This isn't the first time this issue has been raised ... I remember seeing it a while back. It was one of those "oops it's fixed" issues.

Try sending a message with full headers to Rogers support ... but considering it's a problem outside Rogers control, they'll probably shrug their shoulders.

Re: email smtp going slow ONLY to hotma

Mon, 17 Oct 2005 18:55:44 EDT

mordin : There is a lot of people on Sympatico's enhanced MSN email that are seeing delays in email. I sent a message from my Rogers account to my Hotmail account and after an hour it's still not there but one sent to my Gmail account shows up right away. Email sent from both my Yahoo & Gmail accounts show up right away at Hotmail. Looks like there's a problem with email going between Rogers & Hotmail - who's server is causing the problem is another question. :D
--
P4 2.8 800 fsb, Asus P4P800 MoBo w/1Gig PC3200 RAM, 256 Meg GeForce 5600, Sound Blaster Audigy Gamer, DVD-Rom/CD-R Burner & LG Duel layer DVD Burner, 2x 120 Gig Hard Drives

email smtp going slow ONLY to hotmail?

Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:17:53 EDT

anon : hi everyone.
just to let everyone know, im using outlook 2003. i have a third party email address at another domain. im using smtp.broadband.rogers.com and port 587.

im having this problem where if i send email to ANY domain other than hotmail (ie @yorku, @whatever), it arrives nearly instantaneously. but whenever i try send an email to @hotmail, it takes 5 hours and 45 minutes to get there! (yes, i timed it). and its been like that ever since i set it up. ive gone through past threads and i cant seem to see this problem occuring with anyone else. what possible problems are there? i looked in the FAQ regarding this and tried all the SMTP settings given there and STILL the hours of delay in getting mail to @hotmail.

thanks in advance!