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Time Keeper
Premium Member
join:2004-01-07
Little Rock, AR

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Re: Wiring to the NID

So if there isn't a ground that is "close" enough for Qwest, will the tech still hook up dial tone without one, or will the customer have to wait until a ground is available then call back to have dial tone brought to their home? And do Qwest techs not drive ground rods? It seems odd to me that would be the case, because Qwest should install the NID to begin with, so therefore is responsible for grounding their equipment. But then I work for an independent, and not a bell, and I have seen several differences as far as "specs" go.

christcorp
Premium Member
join:2001-05-21
Cheyenne, WY

christcorp

Premium Member

I'm positive that when that older style protector was put in, it was grounded properly to the available ground. Cold water pipes were an acceptable method. Matter of fact they still are, albeit not the preferred 1st choice.

If over the years however that ground got disconnected from it's bonding; i.e. cold water pipe, main electrical ground, etc... That is Qwest's fault, or responsibility. Installing protectors inside the house was a very common and acceptable practice. Current practice states that the customer needs to have access to the NI for testing purposes, and Qwest personnel need to have access. Any new NI's that are put up will 99% of the time be on the outside of the house. They can with certain permissions and conditions go insdie, but that is rare.

To get yours replaced, all you have to do is call Qwest and tell them that you want to test your line and hook up some more jack wiring but aren't able to because the existing NI is too old and doesn't allow for that. They will replace it. And NO IT DOESN'T COST YOU ANYTHING. It may not be a priority and be something that might take a couple of days, but just get the job number when you call it in and if it hasn't been taken care of call back.

If it is a new installation and/or a replacement of the NI and Qwest can't get to the power ground because the electricians used all PVC conduit or their's no actual outside ground, they will try for a cold water pipe or tell you to have an electrician provide a ground. Have Qwest techs driven ground rods? Yes! Do they have to, or should they, NO!. The cold water pipe is generally electrically bonded to the power ground near where the water heater is and such, so that is a good ground. A ground stake, while legal in MOST states, is not neccessarily the SAME ground as power and such if the tech doesn't feel comfortable driving a ground stake for that reason, or because of unknown underground conditions, he or she does not have to do that. They can request you call them back when you have a proper ground available.

There is of course exceptions to every rule. One rule is techs who don't KNOW the rules and do it anyway. The other exception is the MANY Older techs that have been around since Alexander first said "Can You Hear Me Now?" Their attitude is; "That's the way we always did it". A good tech will move the NI to where the same electrical ground is available, or use cold water if neccessary, or have you get an electrician. If you fight that, they SHOULD tell you to take it up with their supervisor. Either way, except for having an electrician provide a ground because your house is so old that a good ground can't be found, there is NO COST for you to have Qwest put in a NEW NI. Later... Mike....

UHF
All static, all day, Forever
MVM
join:2002-05-24

UHF

MVM

Several comments..

First, Qwest already told me I will probably have to pay to have the NI installed. They didn't care that one wasn't there. If there is not a "problem" affecting service they will not dispatch a tech without charging the minimum $85 charge. I got bounced among several people at Qwest in my attempt to get this fixed.

Two, cold water pipe grounding is a violation of NEC, unless you run the ground wire to the STREET side of the water meter. A jumper across the meter is no longer acceptable, even though it was at one time.

Three, driving their own stake wouldn't really help since all wiring entering the home (power, cable tv, phone, etc) must be bonded together, so they end up running a ground wire to the power companies ground anyway.

Four, I have certainly seen the "thats the way we always did it" techs! I don't care how they used to do it, I want it done right, and that means a single point ground.

I'm just going to say to heck with it and install my own lightning protector inside the house where it can bond to the electrical ground, and reroute their ground wire to the street side of the water meter since there isn't very far to go to get there. If I ever do have an issue then Qwest is going to get an earful from me for not being able to test the line myself.

ewth8tr
Premium Member
join:2005-04-03
Salt Lake City, UT

ewth8tr to Icon

Premium Member

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said by Icon:

So if there isn't a ground that is "close" enough for Qwest, will the tech still hook up dial tone without one, or will the customer have to wait until a ground is available then call back to have dial tone brought to their home? And do Qwest techs not drive ground rods? It seems odd to me that would be the case, because Qwest should install the NID to begin with, so therefore is responsible for grounding their equipment. But then I work for an independent, and not a bell, and I have seen several differences as far as "specs" go.
I have never been a tech and am not privy to the exact rules given to the techs, but I have seen on countless occasions where techs have gone out to install new service and a NID and then put the order on hold while the customer provided somewhere to ground the NI.

christcorp
Premium Member
join:2001-05-21
Cheyenne, WY

christcorp to UHF

Premium Member

to UHF
I understand your frustratation, but they can't charge you for replacing an NI that you CAN'T test yourself. That was part of the 1984 and 1996 rulings. YOU are ALLOWED to work on ALL PHONE WIRING in your house, or hier anyone else you want, (State licensing rules apply, except for yourself). Qwest has to provide you a means to separate and test their lines from yours. I'm sorry that you are getting the run around from some dildos at Qwest.

The grounding issue with the water pipe, I meant on the outside of the house side. Qwest installs their NI's outside only now, (Some rare exceptions). I didn't mean to the hose faucet or running it into your basement unless it's like mine and the meter is down their also. You are correct about BEFORE THE METER.

The $85 charge they speak of is their trouble isolation charge they throw at everyone to say; "If the problem is on YOUR side of OUR protector you will be charged $85". Even if their was a charge for replacing the NI, which their isn't, it wouldn't be $85. The charge wouldn't be a flat rate. It's what is called T&M. Time and Materials. It's a By the hour charge. i.e. I'm residing my house and I need you to move the box and then come back in a week and return it where it was;;;; I'm remodeling the house and cutting down trees, can you disconnect the line from the pole and lay a temp on the ground until next week.

All I can say is you are being given wrong information from whomever you called. If by chance you live in the same state as me, drop me an email and I'll have you talk to the right person. If you are out of state, maybe one of the other people can help you find the right person. Later... Mike....

ArgMeMatey
join:2001-08-09
Milwaukee, WI

ArgMeMatey to UHF

Member

to UHF
said by UHF:

Two, cold water pipe grounding is a violation of NEC, unless you run the ground wire to the STREET side of the water meter. A jumper across the meter is no longer acceptable, even though it was at one time.

There are lots of things that violate the NEC, but state and local codes often specify that certain articles of the NEC do not apply, or that only certain articles apply. Have you checked your local codes for exclusions?

Where I live, low voltage wiring such as telephone and CATV are not regulated by state and local authorities so codes do not apply. According to my local electrical inspector, code also does not apply to the electrical service wiring until it gets to the service head or pedestal, which are their demarcations. Telephone, CATV and electrical service standards are all determined by the respective companies that install and maintain them. And for that matter, natural gas piping is completely unregulated inside and outside the house. So much for the "safety" argument.

Red_Menace
poking around since 1978
join:2001-11-03
Fruita, CO

Red_Menace

Member

The NFPA 70 doesn't apply to the utility side, so the local inspector is correct there (although most utilities have some kind of installation practice). If the state or local jurisdiction has accepted the NEC (and most do), then it doesn't really matter if is is "regulated" or not, since there are sections in there dealing with low voltage wiring such as telephone and CATV. And remember, it isn't so much about "safety" as it is determining liability - most companies will do what is needed to protect themselves.