Ed is a genius! in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r15368838 en Fri, 27 Nov 2009 14:33:42 EDT Fri, 27 Nov 2009 14:33:42 EDT Re: Ed is a genius! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15375739 jtorre69 : Tell me about it! I live in an area served by Bellsouth with IFITL(fiber to the curb) that they put in about 5 years ago. They don't want to spend money to upgrade some part until they get a return on it, and I'm stuck at 1.5mpsx256k. WTF!!!! We have comcast already offering 8mbps. Don't they understand that people will leave???????]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15375739 Wed, 01 Feb 2006 06:01:20 EDT Re: Key Words http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15373231 insomniac84 : They are just jealous of the oil industry and how they can just charge more and get away with it. Unfortunately bandwidth isn't traded on the stock market with an arbitrary meaningless price that can be exploited to charge more money for pure profit.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15373231 Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:42:10 EDT Re: Key Words http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15370320 anon : I call shenanigans.

None of the apologists have yet explained why there is this belligerent rhetoric about freeloaders like google?
Is google riding on this mythical "private turnpike"? Are they demanding that att give them special privilege on the internet? Are people not content with the best effort delivery of google content? Google runs on the "best effort" network right now. How is that freeloading if what you claim is true? Either whitacre considers google running on the best effort network to be freeloading or there is no rational basis for his claiming freeloading because google is NOT running on this "private turnpike". He makes it very clear that the present level of service that google receives is TOO HIGH. Whatever his rhetoric, this means he intends to reduce it.

If this is about creating the mythic private network why doesn't whitacre shut his blowhole, build this mythical network and then see if people are willing to pay the premium for it?

Because there is no mythical private turnpike. What he intends to do is take the present network and impose a more extensive traffic prioritization scheme upon it. The prioritization of certain traffic implies the deprioritizing of other traffic. There is no separate network where traffic is sent without affecting the "best effort" network. That is a lie being spouted to suggest that the water level for some boats can be lifted without lowering the water level for the other boats.

"But we have 2 classes of users - those who will use these new bandwidth intensive apps and those who won't."

You can't equate this with the notion of a public and private network. You start out talking about 2 networks, but it again clear that this is not what we are talking about. Apps are content. The behavior of the app is limited by the size of the pipe that the customer has paid for. If you want to sell different service levels for different users requirements you simply sell different size pipes at different price points. There is no justification for an additional levy, on any particular pipe size, based on the "type of app" unless a company is trying to stifle particular apps to protect its revenue generation on its own apps.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15370320 Tue, 31 Jan 2006 18:43:42 EDT Re: Key Words http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15371284 techjoe : All I keep hearing is 'Blah blah blah more money blah blah blah'. If you can't handle transfering data to and from your PAYING customers, you're in the wrong fscking business buddy!!!

I wonder if he makes this request with a straight face..I sure wouldn't be able to. :uhh:
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www.clanc.cc]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15371284 Tue, 31 Jan 2006 16:29:39 EDT Re: Key Words http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15370510 calvoiper :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

...
But we have 2 classes of users - those who will use these new bandwidth intensive apps and those who won't. Under the content providers pay model, only the intensive users will pay. Under the network providers pay model, everyone pays - even those who only do email and regular browsing. The content providers pay model is fairer to the majority of the users. Though the biggest heaviest users will complain when they have to carry more of the costs they are causing.

Maybe the network providers(ISPs) will have to move to a bytes/mo model instead of flat rates. That way the content providers won't pay extra and the end users will pay based upon how much bandwidth they consume.
And your second example ("per byte" pricing) is how it SHOULD work. This most closely matches the "cost causer" with the "cost bearer" and doesn't send the mixed economic signals that running the charge through a third party (the content provider) does.

calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15370510 Tue, 31 Jan 2006 14:49:08 EDT Re: Ed is a genius! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15369440 dentman42 :
said by King P See Profile :

I wish he would just shut up, or else become struck dumb. These content providers are already paying for their internet access just like we are...
Umm...I'd say his comments are proof that he's ALREADY been struck dumb (or maybe struck outright stupid).

Hey Ed...I'm trying your 14.99/month DSL right now. You start playing this tiering bullcrap and you know what? I won't even use your service for FREE, I'll go to another provider that doesn't pull that crap. So will your other subs. Then you won't have to worry about those nasty content providers clogging up your network - because you won't have anybody pulling content through your network. We'll all be using your competitors' services!

ATT/SBC investors - want your company to survive? Band together and oust Ed Whitacre!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15369440 Tue, 31 Jan 2006 12:30:11 EDT Re: Ed is a genius! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15369401 deepblackmag : ...And while the greedy asses in charge continue to stuff their pockets the USA falls farther behind in any sort of real internet connectivity. Africa is putting in a hundred million dollar IPv6 backbone running up both coasts, to europe and asia. We have to listen to retards complain they arent rich enough yet. Neatherland universities get 40gbps hookups. We get higher prices and slower service. Third world countries are leaving us in the dust. WTF does that make us then? A 4th world country? This place sucks, if anybody wants to talk to me, i'll be in south korea.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15369401 Tue, 31 Jan 2006 12:24:12 EDT Re: Key Words http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15369024 en102 : The other terms you have to check would be the fine print, along with that quote. Someone may state that it does not appear to be 'high quality content' and therefore the guarantee is null and void. Also, the TOS would most likely state that there are conditions to be met - i.e. certified AT&T installation, running AT&T equipment with your PC having AT&T software installed (spyware?), no 900MHz/2.4 GHz phones in the house, and that would still not guarantee outage due to line cut, power outage, upstream provider issue, etc.

quote:
they argue that content providers seeking guaranteed delivery of high quality content should be willing to pay.


I had 2 business T1's go out for more than a day (fiber cut) - and that was paying for high availability.
On a frame relay circuit into Northern California, it went down for more than a week, as 2 telcos + external had to be involved. MCI was the service provider, SBC was the local end in So. Cal., Frontier (ugh!) was the telco in Northern Ca which had a failure on a channel bank, and had to do a rebuild. Since Frontier was literally 'frontier' - SBC couldn't put in a local call through their automated system, but had to send a letter to Frontier, as it was so antiquated.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15369024 Tue, 31 Jan 2006 11:23:34 EDT Re: Key Words http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15368854 TKJunkMail :
they argue that content providers seeking guaranteed delivery of high quality content should be willing to pay.

“If someone wants to transmit a high quality service with no interruptions and ‘guaranteed this, guaranteed that’, they should be willing to pay for that,” the AT&T chief said.
You mention Key Words, and I think the above highlighted words are also key. AT&T isn't saying they won't deliver content. All they are saying is that if you want to make sure it gets there on time and real time, then you may have to pay extra to get in the proprietary high speed lane instead of going thru the regular shared internet.

All the main ISP companies have built their own fiber nets(not the ones shared with all others(Level3, Cogent, UUnet, etc). And they built those to deliver their own content at high QOS standards for VOIP, videos, etc. All they are asking is that if others want to ride on the limited access private turnpike instead of the public highway that they kick in a fee.

And if a law prevents that, then the costs to their users are going to rise. So the end user is going to pay more no matter what. Either to the content providers or to the network providers.

But we have 2 classes of users - those who will use these new bandwidth intensive apps and those who won't. Under the content providers pay model, only the intensive users will pay. Under the network providers pay model, everyone pays - even those who only do email and regular browsing. The content providers pay model is fairer to the majority of the users. Though the biggest heaviest users will complain when they have to carry more of the costs they are causing.

Maybe the network providers(ISPs) will have to move to a bytes/mo model instead of flat rates. That way the content providers won't pay extra and the end users will pay based upon how much bandwidth they consume.
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What happens if ALL content providers were to pay this stupid tariff to Mr. Ed? How can he say which service will get better QoS, if they are all supposedly getting the "best" QoS. The only thing I can think of would be that they all get mediocre QoS and then Ed gets more money, for the same crappy service.

I wish he would just shut up, or else become struck dumb. These content providers are already paying for their internet access just like we are...
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Forget 'em, Support the Indies. »www.ind-music.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15368838 Tue, 31 Jan 2006 10:54:45 EDT Key Words http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15368294 packetscan : "Tariff"

I got Your Tariff right here ED!

"They shouldn’t get on [the network] and expect a free ride."

What Turnip Truck did you fall off of? We all pay, Not one person is getting a free ride!

(My last post before i blow a blood-vessel in my head!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,15368294 Tue, 31 Jan 2006 09:11:52 EDT