| or public service? Why do people keep comparing it to a utility? Wouldn't comparing it to a paved road be more reasonable? Broadband has the same impact on development and housing prices as a paved road. And neither are `necessary', luxuries or utilities. |
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 shimonmorPremium
join:2000-12-30
Sedro Woolley, WA | said by Pictor Guy:Why do people keep comparing it to a utility? Wouldn't comparing it to a paved road be more reasonable? Broadband has the same impact on development and housing prices as a paved road. And neither are `necessary', luxuries or utilities. Excellent analogy. |
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 cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:5 | reply to Pictor Guy
It gets compared to a utility because it is similar to one. It's a useful service provided by a company or organization. |
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| said by cdru:It gets compared to a utility because it is similar to one. It's a useful service provided by a company or organization. Right... just like the fact that my trash removal company will pickup large items one day a week is a useful service. It's not a utility. It's not regulated and it's not required. If I pay someone to mow my lawn I may find it a useful service because I work a lot but I wouldn't put it on the same level as having heat in my home.
My daily life is so wrapped on having broadband that I have more than one connection at home (but no access to DSL or fiber). To me it's VERY important but I still don't see it as a utility. However, it has a direct impact to economic growth in my area and my job is dependant on broadband.
If BB was a utility it would be regulated and that would stifle growth and innovation. But that said I might finally have access to DSL but that might be the ONLY option I would have. |
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RayWPremium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
kudos:1 | reply to Pictor Guy
said by Pictor Guy:Why do people keep comparing it to a utility? Wouldn't comparing it to a paved road be more reasonable? Broadband has the same impact on development and housing prices as a paved road. And neither are `necessary', luxuries or utilities. BB has little impact on housing decisions for most people to buy into an area. Things like traffic, stores, schools, density, cost, 'environment', sidewalks, and neighbors are much more important. All other things being equal, then BB would affect the decision for some of us.
Granted, some people would turn down a good house in a good area just because of no BB, but most would not.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. |
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| said by RayW:BB has little impact on housing decisions for most people to buy into an area. Things like traffic, stores, schools, density, cost, 'environment', sidewalks, and neighbors are much more important. All other things being equal, then BB would affect the decision for some of us. Granted, some people would turn down a good house in a good area just because of no BB, but most would not. I would disagree but it may depend on the area that you live in.
And here's some information to back up the claim on BB's economic impact to an area...
»arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20···037.html
And the 36 page PDF to the presentation done by some people at MIT and Carnegie Mellon...
»itc.mit.edu/itel/docs/2005/Measu···pact.pdf |
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RayWPremium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
kudos:1 | Ah...MIT and Carnegie Mellon. I would not consider that main stream America.
The Arstechnica article seems to be trying to say that BB makes for a 'better' life and points to some more densely populated NE states as an example, and to some less densely populated areas in the north central US as a counter example.
Again, depends on what you want, I would choose South Dakota, Montana, or Wyoming and no BB over New York, Massachusetts, and Connecticut and BB. I may make less, but my cost of living is less and I have less stress. Again, it all depends on what you want. Before my neighborhood had DSL and Comcast, many of us WANTED BB, but not bad enough to move. And it is a toss up if my life is better for having BB (but I have fun anyway).
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. |
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| Good broadband has the ability to bring work into a community. For example, customer service reps who work at home, etc. If we are trying to keep jobs in the USA, this is a good way to provide American industry a source of cheap labor while at the same time increasing the quality of life for rural America.
A housewife in Kansas maybe delighted to bring home an extra $20k a year, whereas such a job might be considered by below busboy level in NYC. |
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RayWPremium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
kudos:1 | said by stufried:Good broadband has the ability to bring work into a community. For example, customer service reps who work at home, etc. If we are trying to keep jobs in the USA, this is a good way to provide American industry a source of cheap labor while at the same time increasing the quality of life for rural America. A housewife in Kansas maybe delighted to bring home an extra $20k a year, whereas such a job might be considered by below busboy level in NYC. Could be, but despite the benefits of a fast link, I (and many people I know) chose a place that was lucky to get 12K on a dial up because of other factors. Again, it is what your priorities are. Granted, someday your kids may need it instead of busing off to school, but currently mine use the computers at school most of the time, my network is for play.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. |
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| said by RayW:Could be, but despite the benefits of a fast link, I (and many people I know) chose a place that was lucky to get 12K on a dial up because of other factors. Again, it is what your priorities are. Granted, someday your kids may need it instead of busing off to school, but currently mine use the computers at school most of the time, my network is for play.
Okay... pick a town. Same schools, same access to good jobs, etc. Now picture one street with access to DSL and another street without. What house do you think will get the upper hand in a sale if this was an area that had lots of people who work in the technology sector? Ever wonder why Virginia is a Broad Band battle ground? Ever think that even in the battle ground there are areas (not rural) that still can't get DSL or FIOS and/or cable? |
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| reply to Pictor Guy
quote:
Wouldn't comparing it to a paved road be more reasonable? Broadband has the same impact on development and housing prices as a paved road.
Perhaps it would. The question then arises:
Did the government leave the building of roads and a national highway system to the market?
quote:
If BB was a utility it would be regulated and that would stifle growth and innovation.
lessig recently wrote about the myth that all regulation stifles innovation. In fact he makes the point that regulation is exactly what made the growth of the internet outside of government/university development possible. The telcos could not kill the isp market, they could not outlaw the connecting of modems to phone lines precisely because they WERE regulated. And of course the internet was NOT first begun by the market.
»www.lessig.org/blog/ in "the fiction zone that DC has become"
All this talk about the technicalities of calling it a utility miss the key point. It is fundamental infrastructure that is becoming an ever increasingly important part of economic activity in society. The market is not delivering universal coverage. George bush himself has said that we should push for universal coverage by 2007. At some point the government is going to have to act, in some way, to see to it that the gaps in coverage that the market provides are filled. |
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| said by asdfdfdf : quote:
Wouldn't comparing it to a paved road be more reasonable? Broadband has the same impact on development and housing prices as a paved road.
Perhaps it would. The question then arises: Did the government leave the building of roads and a national highway system to the market? It depends. Local roads? If you were to think of it as the last mile then in many states the answer is yes. And yes, there are still many dirt roads in the US. |
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RayWPremium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
kudos:1 | reply to Pictor Guy
said by Pictor Guy:Okay... pick a town. Same schools, same access to good jobs, etc. Now picture one street with access to DSL and another street without. What house do you think will get the upper hand in a sale if this was an area that had lots of people who work in the technology sector? Ever wonder why Virginia is a Broad Band battle ground? Ever think that even in the battle ground there are areas (not rural) that still can't get DSL or FIOS and/or cable? Again, you are assuming that is the lifestyle chosen, many people choose not to take the BB and go for an area that they like better.
And yes, you are right, the incumbents are $ driven in most cases as to where they put in BB resulting a strange pattern. Only reason we got DSL here so early is a State Representative moved into our area about 4 blocks away (or so said a tech I know).
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. |
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fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | reply to cdru
said by cdru:It gets compared to a utility because it is similar to one. It's a useful service provided by a company or organization. So does that make Cable TV a utility? becuase it's not.
And I don't mean to pick on you, just commenting is all.
However, my attitude is why use other services to compare and define broadband service? HSI is not telephone, it's not electricity, it's not natural gas, it's exactly what it is, it's high speed access to the internet.
The point is, in my opinion, it's not a utility. It's not a life line service and life will go on without it. |
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 rawwhidePremium
join:2000-09-03
The Sticks
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| reply to Pictor Guy
said by Pictor Guy:said by asdfdfdf : quote:
Wouldn't comparing it to a paved road be more reasonable? Broadband has the same impact on development and housing prices as a paved road.
Perhaps it would. The question then arises: Did the government leave the building of roads and a national highway system to the market? It depends. Local roads? If you were to think of it as the last mile then in many states the answer is yes. And yes, there are still many dirt roads in the US. Those dirt roads are maintained, leveled, oiled and kept up. Other wise the people driving on theose roads would be driving on something other than what is considered a road.
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HUH!!! Sekurecom |
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rawwhidePremium
join:2000-09-03
The Sticks Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
2 edits | reply to fiberguy
said by fiberguy:said by cdru:It gets compared to a utility because it is similar to one. It's a useful service provided by a company or organization. The point is, in my opinion, it's not a utility. It's not a life line service and life will go on without it. You can also live without water, electricity, sewer, telephone, and natural gas. The world is not going to stop because your not getting those services. It would just make your life harder. Same with high speed internet. I fail to see your argument as being valid when arguing life will go on if high speed internet is not a utility.
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HUH!!! Sekurecom |
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fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
1 edit | You can not live without water, and in today's society, we have deemed electricity and natural gas a necessity for heating/cooling purposes, as well as sanitary purposes. Many places will deem a dwelling "not live-able" with out those services. Telephone, I agree, other than it IS a lifeline service in case of emergency.
Television and Internet service has not proven to be a requirement. News? Get a news paper or listen to a radio (battery of couse, because electricity isn't a necessity, remember?  )
My argument is VERY valid in these points as certain utilities are already deemed 'required' and 'necessary' - it will be a long time before HSI will be in that arena and even then, since the telephone is still an option as well, I think it will be a very long time before HSI has any kind of function that our society deems it a required 'utility'.
The only reason I can see HSI becoming a utility is because it would benefit the powers-that-be financially to do so.
Internet is a luxury as much as the telephone is. Many people get along without the internet.
edit:
And, electricity and natural gas is so much a requirement of life that here in Minnesota that those utilities are required to restore service to those who have had their service shut off due to past due bills during the period of November 15th to April 15th. |
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