| reply to packetscan
Re: Finally? I am all for anyone suing At&t for any reason. Even one that should have been brought in the 90's when Clinton was doing the same thing under project ECHELON.
Remember, boycott the bells. Alternatives finally exist in cable and voip. One can finally, after 100 years of monopoly bullying free themselves from Bells' embrace. |
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| Suing the Government is harder than suing private corporations. ATT doesn't enjoy governmental immunity. ATT will have a harder time invoking national security as a defense, but I don't completely rule it out. Echelon was spying on foreign soil aimed at foreign airwaves. A US court is more likely to find no jurisdiction.
Please note this is not a ringing endorsement of Echelon, but I think ATT is more vulnerable than the NSA. Too bad. The NSA needs something to slow them down. |
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 sporkmedrop the crantini and move it, sisterPremium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Morristown, NJ
 ·Optimum Online
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said by TelecomJunky2:I am all for anyone suing At&t for any reason. Even one that should have been brought in the 90's when Clinton was doing the same thing under project ECHELON. Where did this rumor start that Clinton created Echelon?
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Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity |
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| "Where did this rumor start that Clinton created Echelon?"
From a right wing talking points fax. |
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 Noah VailSon made my AvatarPremium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:1
·Bright House
 ·Sprint Mobile Br..
| reply to sporkme
Knee Jerk! Interesting. A knee-jerk reaction, accusing the right wing of a knee-jerk reaction.
Anyhoo, Echelon, as we know it, appears to put into action between 1996 and 1998 under the oversight of George Tenet. It was executed by Clinton and authorized by the FISA court.
However it's an outgrowth of existing surveillance by the NSA and the GHCQ. There are documents as far back as 1981 referring to the gathering process as Echelon 2.
It seems be initially directed toward eastern bloc and Russian monitoring, but expanded during the 80's and 90's to include international terrorism, drug cartels and expanded spying. It's a cooperative effort including the sigint agencies of South Africa, Canada, UK, Australia, New Zealand and (who knows) maybe even Antarctica.
It's various attributes and incarnations have been know as P-415, Silkworth, Project P-377 (aka CARBOY II) and a host of others.
What Clinton put into action brought the most profitable use of Word Spotting for sifting information and brought it to new levels of effectiveness.
I'm pretty sure there are already files on me somewhere anyway.
NV
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Abortion: Improves the Gene Pool! |
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| reply to TelecomJunky2
Re: Finally? said by TelecomJunky2:Clinton was doing the same thing under project ECHELON. Echelon is multinational. You get around the laws by having canada or UK do actual spying on America. They report what they have to the NSA & DIA. We in turn do the same for them. Easy way to get around the courts. Also remember that the NSA is not really a govt organization. There funding does not come directly from the national budget so they don't fall under same rules as the CIA, FBI, or homeland security. |
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 kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY | reply to sporkme
said by sporkme:said by TelecomJunky2:I am all for anyone suing At&t for any reason. Even one that should have been brought in the 90's when Clinton was doing the same thing under project ECHELON. Where did this rumor start that Clinton created Echelon? Umm Echelon was
1. Authorized properly
2. targeting foreigners
None of these are true about Bush's highly illegal, stalinist eavesdropping operation.
He's not only continuously violating the law but also openly and loudly advertizing it, calling for more support to violate the law.
Bush should be impeached. Clinton came under fire for the fraction of Bush's last 5 years - lies and outright violation of both laws and Constitution, of both he promised under oath to not only respect but enforce. |
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audiog
join:2004-08-09
Detroit, MI | reply to TelecomJunky2
All Telecoms are in on it some don't even know it.
Your VoIP has a telecom tie to get its numbers all Data(voice is digitized to maximize bandwidth) traffic is sifted even Cell calls including the Nextel walkiesucky. Most of it is boring but the .01% is what they are after and people did not question the provisions in the patriot act the allowed the government to tap communications by invoking National Security as a means to an end.
By the way Clinton is not the first. The Reagan admin started the project when the CIA purchases 3 systems in addition to the NASA system and gave Canada and England each a system so we could spy on each other and not break the law.
The exchange went like this,"Sorry we intercepted your communications my mistake here is a copy." |
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 pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | reply to kamm
said by kamm:Bush should be impeached. LOL... with Republican majorities in both houses of Congress and no hope at all for the Democrats regaining control of either one? Um, yea... you get right on that.
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Rove / Rumsfeld 2008! |
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| reply to sporkme
I didn't say Clinton started Echelon, but he did abuse it.
ECHELON was originally designed to spy on foreign communications, however, in the late 90's agreements were signed with our foreign allies involved in the project to spy on our citizens through these foreign countries who did not have any laws restricting them from spying on U.S. citizens and transmitting those intercepts back to the U.S.
In addition, ample evidence exists that Clinton and the DNC used intercepted communications against their political opponents at the time.
Check links below for references:
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON
»americanthinker.com/articles.php···_id=5150
Aside from ECHELON, here is a good report about Comverse Infosys, a subsidiary of an Israeli-run private telecommunications firm, with offices throughout the U.S. It provides wiretapping equipment for law enforcement and how dangerous laps in security exist that would allow just about anyone with the knowledge can tap into our telephone communications network.
»www.informationclearinghouse.inf···6480.htm
But I digress, this is not a thread on politics of dems and repubs, we are talking about At&t and how they and other ILECs are willing to sell out their customers privacy and drive their costs up through hidden fees and two-tiered Internet schemes.
»hotcarl.diaryland.com |
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