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 SSX4lifeHello WorldPremium
join:2004-02-13
kudos:2
 ·RoadRunner Cable
1 edit | illegal and malicious activities? Was he surfing the web or was he downloading porn like in 2003? I do not see an issue with wi-fi freeloading if it is legal and not intrusive on bandwidth consumption. I always pop on free hotspots when on business trips etc.
I may be wrong here with my simple mind here, but in my opinion if you receive broadcast waves such as tv, radio, cb, etc. that is in the public domain. If you broadcast wi-fi in your house and it reaches outside your home how would this be any different than receiving signals?
Yes you could make the argument you are connecting to a private network which is intrusive, but in reality is it intrusive to obtain an ip address? Come on think about it for a second, it is just a number.
I've seen analogy's of people mentioning that using free open wifi is like walking into someones house and going in their fridge and eating their food and all sorts of crazy things. Lets bring it back to the main issues here people.
#1. There is no current FCC or governmental regulations on wireless in the home sector. If you wanted to start your own radio or tv station THEN they have issues, but wireless or wifi is just like a cordless phone or any other home signal that does not affect the mass public and therefore is not regulated by any agency.
#2. I do not see how the receiving of signals is any different than radio, tv, or cb etc. etc. There are no costs involved for listening to radio (other than the commercials you hear), and if you wanted to have that sort of idea with open wifi I'm all for it. But other than using a private number or ip address to search the internet does not seem like a huge issue for me.
Granted there are those who say you are accessing private information and that is just like breaking and entering, then those who are for it say your door is unlocked, and they come back saying the whole fridge analogy about it being unlocked does not give you the right to access it. This simply comes down the fact that some people see data security and open wireless as their own private domain and they do not want people to encroach and use their connections.
If people are that concerned about it lock it down and do not broadcast an open WEP or connection it is that simple. And as others have mentioned that if you are too dumb to leave it open you deserve nothing less. To those that say that I say you have a moral dilemma and it comes down to what is really truly right and fair not what is "technically" legal.
Overall I would advise you to proceed with caution, but I truly honestly can not see any issues with using wireless other than using a private ip address and nothing more! If you use it for legit mate purposes I have no problems at all.
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|   TinksterPremium
join:2003-07-16
Rosedale, MD | Re: illegal and malicious activities? I wish they would drop the whole issue already. I'm running out of free WIFI spots in my neighborhood. Awareness is becoming an issue now lol. | |
| | | I would have to agree with you in your statement that you have a simple mind.
You are NOT just receiving a #. You are transmitting data back and forth over a connection that is bought and paid for by someone other than yourself.
You are using their resources without them knowing and against their will. In addition you are doing so knowing full well that you are taking something that does not belong to you. Chances are you are also violating the TOS of the ISP and causing the person you are stealing to violate it.
You "theives" can sugar coat it, pass the buck on to the user that didnt secure it, or justify your wrongful acts all you want. However, you are still taking a resource that is not yours and without question you know it is not yours.
And to all of you that want to try to justify this by comparing it to TV and radio, there are couple hugh differences. 1.) TV / Radio is being broadcasted so you can pick it up knowingly by the person sending it. Thus you have their permission and even their encouragement to do so. 2.) You are only receiving the TV / Radio signal and are not using any of their resources in doing so. That signal will be there and their resources will be just as taxed whether you choose to get it or not. That is not true with wireless networking as you are using up system / connection resources.
Your #1 point is just stupid and has no bearing. However it does bring up something... and that if you free load and intercept my phone conversation or use my cordless phone line for your personal use without my knowledge and consent even though it is freely passed over into your airspace then you are violating the law.
#2 I have already proven the stupidity in this statement above.
This isn't even a gray area. It is as black and white as it is night and day. If you knowingly take something that is not yours, then it is stealing. It doesn't matter how or why it got there. If you take it without consent then you stole it. | |
| | | | Re: illegal and malicious activities? said by Skippy25: You are transmitting data back and forth over a connection that is bought and paid for by someone other than yourself. You are using their resources without them knowing and against their will. Then secure the connection. Put in a password. This isn't rocket science. Keep in mind the router is actively inviting any request for a connection. Your equipment is saying yes. Not the wardriver. All he is doing is looking for access points that are doing exactly what your router is doing.
"Hey. I see you have access to the Internet. Maybe I use it?"
"Sure thing. Here's an IP and link to the modem. I was making sandwiches. Would you like one?"
This is the kind of communication that's happening between router and computer. If you don't like that then change the settings on your AP.
said by Skippy25:You "theives" can sugar coat it, pass the buck on to the user that didnt secure it, or justify your wrongful acts all you want. However, you are still taking a resource that is not yours and without question you know it is not yours. There is no sugar coating about it. It's a shared community kind of mentality is what it is. Don't you know there are people who intentionally don't secure their wifi connections so other people can use it? The bandwidth is there whether you use it or not. As long as someone isn't abusing the privilege of tapping into your bandwidth I don't see a problem. If you do.... SECURE YOUR CONNECTION. If someone taps your connection after you set it up with a user login and password THEN you call it trespassing.
said by Skippy25:Your #1 point is just stupid and has no bearing. However it does bring up something... and that if you free load and intercept my phone conversation or use my cordless phone line for your personal use without my knowledge and consent even though it is freely passed over into your airspace then you are violating the law. Phone lines are more secure and aren't actively offering anybody to access them like your WiFi router is. Big difference.
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| | | | | Re: illegal and malicious activities? Keep trying to justify it all you want but the simple truth that you are knowingly using a resource that you should not be using doesn’t change. Regardless of whether or not they choose to lock it down. How things work "naturally" is irrelevant. Because someone chooses not to lock it down, does not make it free for your cheap ass. That’s true of my car, my bike, my laptop, my wallet, or any other thing in the world that I own and I choose not to lock down whether it is in my house or sitting on the sidewalk in plain public view. Just because you can more easily and more anonymously steal someone's WiFi and get away with it, does not make any less of a crime.
And who's shared community mentality is this? You, the thief? Your mentality is already flawed. If you think it is such a shared community thing, then get permission to use it. You know the wifi can't be too far away, knock on your neighbors doors until you find who it is. Tell them you can connect to them and are too cheap to get your own connection so you would like their permission to use theirs. What?!?!?! You think they would tell you no? I guess your cheap ass will have to get your own then. | |
| | | | | | Re: illegal and malicious activities? Is it you to assume what the person who has the access doesn't want others on the connection? I don't wardrive by the way so you might as well stop with the thief accusations. I do, however, have a wireless router with an open AP that occasionally gets accessed from people outside my home. I am of the shared community mentality, and I'm not alone.
There are plenty of people out there who know full well that their wireless router is open to the world and they continue to keep it that way. They don't mind some roving laptop checking email on it. They don't mind their neighbor surfing the web it. And once it looks like that privilege I give to the public is being abused I'll cut it off. So far that hasn't happened yet.
So who's right is it to say that I cannot share my connection? I pay for it. My ISP doesn't complain (many used to, but they found it more profitable to let people be). I am not alone. With so many people actually willing to have their networks open how are the wardrivers supposed to tell the difference? Simple. Secure your connection.
I am allowing people to access my bandwidth, and there is no reason why this should be illegal. The ONLY way for people to know whether or not an AP is open to the public or not is if it's locked down. A simple password. That's all it takes. If you REALLY want to make changes in how all of this works then get the wireless router manufacturers to have access login setups happen right out of the box. Before your can do anything to the router you have to tell it if you want the connection open or secure. See? Simple.
It's funny how you keep screaming about thieves, but continually ignore the nature of the beast. Wireless routers, by default, grant access to anybody asking for it. Wireless NICs, by default, try to connect to the strongest signal they can find. If you don't like it then change the defaults in your system and stop complaining about people gaining access to your wide open door with a welcome sign as big as all outdoors.
This is nothing like keeping your house or car unlocked, having stuff in your yard unsecured, or just about any other analogy I have seen come through here. This is a whole different animal. Deal with it. | |
| | | | | | | Re: illegal and malicious activities? Dude you are so far off on this it is laughable.
First off, if someone is purposely sharing their WiFi then they don't really fall into anything this subject is about. How can you steal something that is being given to you? It simply does not apply so you mentioning it (and in such detail) is a waste of space.
Secondly, I would be willing to bet that if you review the TOS of your ISP it would include a clause that restricts you from sharing your connection as you do.
Third, your lame excuse of it allowing it by default is simply that... lame and does not warrant a counter argument. | |
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| Re: illegal and malicious activities? said by Skippy25:Dude you are so far off on this it is laughable. First off, if someone is purposely sharing their WiFi then they don't really fall into anything this subject is about. How can you steal something that is being given to you? It simply does not apply so you mentioning it (and in such detail) is a waste of space. Secondly, I would be willing to bet that if you review the TOS of your ISP it would include a clause that restricts you from sharing your connection as you do. Third, your lame excuse of it allowing it by default is simply that... lame and does not warrant a counter argument. And with that, young Skippy25 successfully dodged any rational debate.  | |
| | | | | | | | said by Skippy25:First off, if someone is purposely sharing their WiFi then they don't really fall into anything this subject is about. This whole discussion is about the legality of someone accessing bandwidth from a WiFi router. I think it's worth noting. Especially when you make blanket accusations on anybody who says it's not illegal. Legally you shouldn't be liable for accessing an open port or having an open port to be accessed. Do you even know how simple it is to secure a wireless router? It's so easy this discussion shouldn't even be happening.
said by Skippy25:Secondly, I would be willing to bet that if you review the TOS of your ISP it would include a clause that restricts you from sharing your connection as you do. I have reviewed the TOS of my cable Internet service, thank you (Earthlink). Only business accounts that have username and passwords set up with the service must comply with notifying Earthling of unauthorized usage. Also unauthorized usage isn't specifically defined as someone other than the customer accessing the bandwidth and they don't define the authorization being at the ISP's discretion.
said by Skippy25:Third, your lame excuse of it allowing it by default is simply that... lame and does not warrant a counter argument. Lame? It's exactly how a wireless router works. I am not allowing free access by default. Netgear, Linksys and D-Link are the ones who set up their routers to be wide open by default. Do you even know how a wireless network works or have you actually worked on a wireless router? I really want to hear your counter argument on this because what I stated was a fact.
You want to say someone is a thief by accessing a wireless Internet connection. Sure some of these people might be too cheap to buy their own bandwidth, but you can't count the entire wireless community as such. If you don't like people accessing your bandwidth then just put a password on it and stop all this grandstanding. I gave you very valid points and all you want to do is ignore the facts and solutions. If you are fighting on mere principle then you better understand other principles are in play, and you better be prepared to respond logically. Name-calling and insults don't win debates. | |
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| | | I see this issue from a slightly different perspective. Others wi-fi rights end at my property line. I resent my children being bombarded by EMR from half a dozen neighbors 24-7. So, for those of you whining about your bandwidth being stolen I have 2 suggestions: use a protocol with a shorter range or hard-wire your network. Otherwise watch out for the day that you get sued. | |
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