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waldoooo

join:2001-12-15
Fountain Valley, CA

reply to knightmb

Re: What Is A Crime?

said by knightmb:

said by Scilicet:

The arrests have led to plenty of confusion in the media and among law enforcement over what constitutes a crime.
It seems quite clear to me. Freeloading is theft, period.
If you have a sign outside of your door that says "free money" and a huge pile of money next to it. Are you going to arrest everyone that comes up to grab some cash and yell "thief!".

I see wireless access the same way. Everyone knows that this little device allows *any* computer to connect to it and get Internet access. If you don't want that, then you secure it, even if it's just plain old 64 bit WEP, it's better than nothing. If someone breaks into it and then starts stealing bandwidth after you already put in the "no freeloaders sign" encryption on, then I can see it being a good reason to arrest someone for stealing.

Anything else is just media hype and people looking to get 15 seconds of fame as far as I'm concerned.
thats BS, using someone else's connection without permission is stealing whether or not its secure. If I park my car on the street and accidentally leave it unlocked, does that make it right for someone walking by to take my laptop on the seat? Signal theft is wrong, its taking something you are not paying for.....


barnett25

join:2004-01-26
Huntington, WV

Unless you have that wifi blocking wallpaper it's actually more like parking your car in my yard, with the keys in it.



SRFireside

join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX

reply to waldoooo

said by waldoooo:

using someone else's connection without permission is stealing whether or not its secure. If I park my car on the street and accidentally leave it unlocked, does that make it right for someone walking by to take my laptop on the seat? Signal theft is wrong, its taking something you are not paying for.....
Bad analogy. Have your car parked with a sign that says, "take a ride for free" is more apt. If you don't want your car driven don't put up the sign. The same goes for wireless routers. Really people, all you have to do is assign a username and password to gain access to your bandwidth. It's that simple. You don't want anybody in you don't give them the access credentials.

Now when someone hacks into your bandwidth IN SPITE of you closing the AP then you definitely have something that should be illegal. The thing is there are people who actually don't mind others using their bandwidth and purposely keep their AP open on the router just for that.


marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1

Is the default username and password still securing?

Because that is what you are looking at for the vast majority of unintentionally open APs now... a router configured with a default username and password opening them up to easily bypassing any existing encryption.
--
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telnet://whip.isca.uiowa.edu
Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher



SRFireside

join:2001-01-19
Houston, TX

I don't think a default open system can be considered secured. From what I can tell the default user name is...well... "default" or something similar and the password is blank when you get the router. Creating some sort of access ID with a password would change all of that and would mean you would have to know the user login and password in order to gain access to the bandwidth.



Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL

1 edit

Once you gain access to a wireless network the first thing to do will be to run a LAN sniffer. You don't need to access the router's administration page to be able to surf the web and such either.

Wireless is insecure, and there are ways to prevent a signal from being picked up or even blocking out users you don't want on your network. All these "come on in!" comments are basically talking about the router broadcasting itself. This can be turned off and from there you will need a passive scanner to detect the access point let alone get it's name before you can even join it. Even yet this is not security, this is simply playing hide and go seek.

Another option will be to use encryption WEP is not secure and be cracked in only minutes to seconds. Most likely I would suggest WAP2 which for now has no known exploits or cracks beside dictionary attacks. Even then it's possible to get in. That's why you begin only allowing the MAC addresses which are able to access the router. Which provides also some level of security.

You might also want to go static instead of DHCP. If you have like 3 computers simply tell the router to allow only 3 IP's. Anything else should have no need to access the network.

Either way wireless has been proven to be insecure and should only be used if monitored by someone who knows what there doing. But most people just plug it in set there computers to connect to "linksys" and the router handles everything from there. The

P.S When I say router I mean it as a wireless router.


Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

reply to barnett25
And you getting in the car and driving it around is still illegal.

I can park the damn thing on your front porch with the keys in it and the motor running and you still can't legally enter it, nor can you legally take it for a joy ride.



phattieg

join:2001-04-29
Winter Park, FL
Reviews:
·Bright House

said by Skippy25:

And you getting in the car and driving it around is still illegal.

I can park the damn thing on your front porch with the keys in it and the motor running and you still can't legally enter it, nor can you legally take it for a joy ride.
Not in Florida. We have "idiot" laws. If you leave your keys in an unattended car, you could get a ticket, or goto jail. I think thats the way it SHOULD be.

stufried
Premium
join:2003-10-13

reply to SRFireside
It is more akin to painting your bike lime green with a spray paint can and leaving it unlocked in the cities that have implemented the bike sharing system and then saying "it was never my intent for my bike to be a communal bike."

(for those who are not familiar with the community bicyle programs, see »www.ibike.org/encouragement/freebike.htm#usa)

Many routers even give you the ability to keep your wifi channels bandwith down and give the system a protected channnel so that your system doesn't grind to a crawl when you choose to participate in such a give away.


Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

reply to phattieg
It is like that in most places to bhe best of my knowledge (don't even get me started on that law), but that is not the point. You still can't take that car for a joy ride just because it is there.



phattieg

join:2001-04-29
Winter Park, FL
Reviews:
·Bright House

said by Skippy25:

It is like that in most places to bhe best of my knowledge (don't even get me started on that law), but that is not the point. You still can't take that car for a joy ride just because it is there.
You totally missed my retort. Basically, instead of making this illegal, make leaving it unlocked and unattended illegal, THEN make it illegal, so it won't get abused as just another reason to sue someone. This way the legit HotSpots can be ran without the user worrying if the owner will sue. Just ADMIT IT, it's not difficult to lock it down, if you don't, you deserve the abuse. Thats all anyone here is saying. This is beating a dead horse. IT'S DEAD ALREADY, YOU CAN'T SUE IF THE SIGNAL CAME UP ON MY SCREEN AND OFFERED TO CONNECT ME. Blame the router owner, or the O/S manufacturer for making it so easy to "accidentally" steal (or intentionally steal, whatever floats your boat.).


Chicago_DSL6

join:2003-08-04
South Elgin, IL

reply to Skippy25
If stealing WIFI from techo-idiots is a crime, then it should also be a crime to unknowingly possess a worm or virus on any public or paid network since it is a risk to everyone else. If you don't like it, RTFM.

And for all you people posting stuff like "well if my car was unlocked..", don't forget that you can not just drive a car legally without a damn license. You wanna stop majority of WIFI freeloaders, let's pass a law requiring a license of some sort before you are even able to own a computer. This way the only people that are getting into WIFI networks are getting in there because:
1) They were given permission to
2) or they are hacking it anyways

Crime can not be prevented, otherwise there would be no need for jails, right? Why punish the freeloaders unless they forced their way in (AKA hacking) when the people that should be punished are the idiots that don't read instructions? Maybe watching your bandwidth creep because people are accessing your WIFI network (because you are too dumb to set up security ro too cheap to pay someone to do it) is a good punishment, IMHO.


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