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 Jodokast96Stupid people really piss me off.Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
kudos:2 | Not black and white If I come home from work, and there is a bicycle on my lawn, don't know who it belongs to. This goes on for a week, everyday all day, it's just there. Now a month goes by, still there. One day, I start to ride it around. Did I steal it? Technically yes, because it isn't my bike. Legally, I don't think you'd be convicted in a court of law. Was it morally wrong to ride it? Maybe, maybe not; everyones morals are different. Apply it to Wi-Fi, and it is just as unclear. In reality, both parties are wrong, and both are right. In the case of a hacker stealing CC #'s, the hacker is a theif and would be charged as such, but the CC company is also responsible for securing their network, and could also be charged accordingly.
One thing that no one seemed to pick up on was the guy nailed for using the libraries access outside the library. Would it have been a crime if he was inside? Since it's a public facility, paid for with tax dollars, doesn't that make it a publicly owned access point? The whole point of this article isn't who is right and who is wrong, but that there is no standard anywhere. One needs to be found otherwise you're going to have guilty people walk free, and innocent ones in a world of shit. | |
 MiddiemanEschew Obfuscation
join:2001-02-05
Elkins Park, PA | quote:
If I come home from work, and there is a bicycle on my lawn, don't know who it belongs to. This goes on for a week, everyday all day, it's just there. Now a month goes by, still there. One day, I start to ride it around. Did I steal it? Technically yes, because it isn't my bike. Legally, I don't think you'd be convicted in a court of law.
In my neighborhood, trespassers can be arrested with a phone call, especially if there is any kind of notification that a lawn is private property. The police are quite happy to tow cars that are parked where they shouldn't be. Other than possibly being annoyed for a call about a bike that doesn't seem very important where there are people to ticket or something, I don't see why there would be a problem with the police "impounding" a misplaced bike.
That was creative, but I'm not seeing how it applies to wifi either.
-=[Middie]=-
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Jodokast96Stupid people really piss me off.Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
kudos:2 | Gee, I'd hate to live in your neighborhood if your gonna call the cops cause a kid leaves his bike there. Do you call the National Guard for an actual break in?
By your thinking, I should call the cops and report a neighbor as trespassing because their Wi-Fi signals are "where they shouldn't be"? Should the police "impound" (secure) their network? Gee that would solve the problem wouldn't it?
None of that was the point I was trying to make, but I'm glad you pointed that out because it just goes to show that none of this is clear cut, and really both parties are at fault. What I was trying to say was fine, there's a bike there. Not hurting anyone, I'll leave it alone. If it's left there for a month or whatever (just as that signal is left there), am I a thief for using the bike? Technically, yes I am: I used property that wasn't mine without permission. Would I be convicted in a court of law: no way, not for just using it, only unless I refused to return it. Why, because it shouldn't have been left there in the first place. Just as the signal shouldn't have been left there. Everybody is guilty of something in a case like this. My overall point was THERE NEEDS TO BE A STANDARD SET! | |
MiddiemanEschew Obfuscation
join:2001-02-05
Elkins Park, PA | quote:
By your thinking, I should call the cops and report a neighbor as trespassing because their Wi-Fi signals are "where they shouldn't be"? Should the police "impound" (secure) their network? Gee that would solve the problem wouldn't it?
No, I was talking about your analogy that I said didn't relate very well.
Probably not the only problem with that one is that you are very aware that you did not purchase the bike that you decided to ride. It has nothing to do with an open network that is doing nothing else but asking to be accessed.
But I did think of something else from another person's response:
A poster came up with the idea of a notification of some sort about not accessing a network. Notify people that you do not want them using your network, and it's hands off.
-=[Middie]=-
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All your base are belong to DSL Reports! | |
Jodokast96Stupid people really piss me off.Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
kudos:2 | said by Middieman:But I did think of something else from another person's response: A poster came up with the idea of a notification of some sort about not accessing a network. Notify people that you do not want them using your network, and it's hands off. Agree 100%. As to the rest of your reply, just a basic misunderstanding. No harm, no foul. | |
| reply to Jodokast96
Yeah, arrest the people that don't secure WIFI routers because they help support terrorism, kiddie porn, illegal distribution of copyrighted materials, and on and on...
Connecting to an open WIFI connection must be illegal, I read it somewhere on the internet, it has to be true!
If people should not be allowed to connect to anyone's open WIFI signal, then they should clearly put out a sign that says "DO NOT ACCESS", and I do not care how the sign is made or where it is displayed, however I am not a sucking mind reader and the law is completely unclear about the "true" legality of this. Any lawyers wanna comment, I would like to hear more than opinions as this point, some insight and logic might be more appropriate. | |
| reply to Middieman
The one thing I find interesting about this statement is
"In my neighborhood, trespassers can be arrested with a phone call, especially if there is any kind of notification that a lawn is private property."
Is there anyone who does not know that the lawn in front of my house it mine, yet I have to put a sign out for just in case they are to stupid to realize this. Of course if they can't realize this, the chances of them reading the sign are small. The same can be applied to wireless. Actually it may be harder to determine if you are at a public hotspot or just your neighbors hotspot
Additionally,
Are people so stupid to think that once they install a wireless router and magically their computer connects that the super smart $50 computer router will stop all other people from using their connection magically. (I'm not staying using the connection is right) If they can figure this out, then there is a problem (see my golden rule)
One other thing
I leave a bike in the street and I take it for a ride and bring it back, is it stealing? probably. Does anyone really care if they did not miss it? Would I care if my neighbor did that, probably not. Of course would I care if they were "borrowing" my internet... Now that is a better question.
Finally
If I watch my neighbors TV through my window, from my own house is it stealing? What if it is DirecTV. (I would think not) What if my neighbor left his TV on and I had a remote that would change the channel. and I changed the channel. Is that stealing? It is really my fault that his TV picks up my Publicly broadcast remote signal?
In Summary,
The law is not clear. To make things simple block your connection or don't use wireless. (now there is a crazy idea)
And my golden rule
stupid people should not be allowed to reproduce. It would make the world a better place | |
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