Re: How many find this info useful? in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r16221558 en Mon, 22 Mar 2010 11:51:15 EDT Mon, 22 Mar 2010 11:51:15 EDT Re: How many find this info useful? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16228692 damox : The news in and of it's self is not necessarily useful, but as far as I'm concerned, it's good new. I find it encouraging in that as DSL surpasses cable, in general, cable companies will begin seeing the need to be more competitive, which eventually equates to better offerings at better prices. Also, if DSL offerings were to get significantly better, I'd switch.

News doesn't have to be "useful". A lot of news is just interesting and informative.
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DAMOX Proud to be a member of Team Discovery]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16228692 Sat, 03 Jun 2006 13:49:13 EDT Re: How many find this info useful? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16222696 BloodRoses : I couldn't have said it better. Most people want less cost, and even the power users want more speed AND less cost.
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Cheers,
Stephanie - www.GlitterFaerie.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16222696 Fri, 02 Jun 2006 15:19:01 EDT Re: How many find this info useful? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16222232 bchris02 : "Some here complain that the US is lacking in broadband penetration and this information could be saying that price, not availability is the reason."

I think you are on to something here. Most people I know can get broadband in some form or another (excluding Satellite). However, most people just choose to stick with dialup because they would rather pay $9.99 than $25 for DSL or $40 for cable.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16222232 Fri, 02 Jun 2006 13:57:43 EDT Re: How many find this info useful? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16222077 J D McDorce :
said by oliphant See Profile :

You just look at the headline and dismiss the entire story without understanding the implications to providers which could be that Roberts is wrong; price sells...speed doesn't.
On the other hand, Comcast continues to report some fairly impressive numbers for quarterly net internet subscriber additions, somewhat begging the question of how important aggregate numbers are in comparison to continuing to add subscribers while maintaining a margin that ensures corporate profitability. In addition, CEO-speak always needs to be taken with a grain of salt, since if price were a non-factor, Comcast would have ditched their $19.99 for X months introductory offers a long time ago.

One interesting aspect of the aggregate balance of DSL subs versus Cable subs becomes linkage to other services and potential opportunities. Assuming that the stereotypical DSL subscriber also has RBOC DSL and POTS, with a similar relationship between cable internet and CATV, is there a correlation with the opportunity for the third leg of the data, video, and voice triad?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16222077 Fri, 02 Jun 2006 13:33:26 EDT Re: How many find this info useful? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16221558 oliphant : True, there are many variables that aren't included in these statistics which could explain such a small difference like 12% (in this latest study). It could be price, availability, wealth or something else we haven't thought of. A 12% difference with a +-2.5% error isn't really hugely significant, in that I think affluence is playing a smaller role in people's decision to buy broadband rather than the price itself.

By this I mean that I think people rich or poor are logically less likely to have a "need" for broadband at $45+ while "rich" and "poor" will jump on $15 DSL if it meets their needs...even if they could afford more they choose not to afford more.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16221558 Fri, 02 Jun 2006 12:06:11 EDT Re: How many find this info useful? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16221485 Titus Pullo : The income data is also important to the story. Higher family incomes, where cable is king according to this data, would more than likely translate to those 3000+ sq. ft. boxes in suburbia where DSL doesn't have nearly the market presence.

6000 cable speed tiers paired w/HBO packages fits well with 75k and up incomes. Conversely, singles and couples living within city limits -- and on lower incomes -- have choices and therefore might choose a lighter speed service to cut costs.

Just a thought.

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"I am not young enough to know everything."
Oscar Wilde]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16221485 Fri, 02 Jun 2006 11:54:34 EDT Re: How many find this info useful? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16221363 moonpuppy :
said by oliphant See Profile :

It's not meaningless because pricing by these giant providers is rarely local. A franchise rarely (if ever) charges different rates depending on whether or not you as an individual can get DSL or cable. Sometimes they'll give you a "leave the other guy" discount but that is about it. On a regional basis cable and DSL providers like Comcast and Verizon are in direct competition.
I live in an area that has another cable company as a competitor and prices are lower because of it.

Also, with FIOS coming in, Comcast is very worried about their customer base.

said by oliphant See Profile :

The information, again if true, states that price sells and that if you (a broadband provider) want to compete and grab up new subscribers you have to do it on price more than speed and this would certainly have implications to consumers who would/could in the future see more promos rather than speed upgrades as a result.
Considering many people still do not see the need for a high speed connection, price will win out over speed unless you are the uber-techies like the ones that come to this site.

said by oliphant See Profile :

These DSL subscriber growth stories are basically saying that if the telco wants a shot at subscribers like you who are willing to pay a bit more for speed, telcos have to drop their prices big time. You may not be willing to take the speed cut for $7, but for a $25 difference you may...at least that is what the sales trends are implying. And for the public in general which are in greater number than the DSLR 'speed freaks', price appears to be even more important.
Very true. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16221363 Fri, 02 Jun 2006 11:35:40 EDT Re: How many find this info useful? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16221356 Titus Pullo :
said by oliphant See Profile :

It speaks to what is motivating people to buy. Comcast CEO Roberts says pretty much that speed sells, but this information, if correct, would say different and that it's price that sells more than speed. IOW, if Comcast introduced a 700kbps tier for $15, they too would see the blitz of new subscribers like Verizon was able to do with their ridiculously cheap $15 tier.


Yes, and a substantial number of those 'new' subs would come from their own customer pool. Hence why you won't see low dollar tiers until if and when retention forces their hand.

FWIW: Roberts will claim that whatever he's offering at any given time is what 'sells' -- after all, he's a CEO; the truth isn't usually their strong suit.



--
"I am not young enough to know everything."
Oscar Wilde]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16221356 Fri, 02 Jun 2006 11:35:05 EDT Re: How many find this info useful? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16220797 oliphant : I didn't consider the global market where DSL obviously kills cable in subscriber numbers because this story is specifically about the American broadband market and how DSL is rapidly catching or possibly passed cable in subscriber numbers after a decade of cable HSI dominance in the US.

quote:
...that suggested DSL had now taken the lead in America


More importantly, and the relevance of all of this which I think you are missing is WHY.

Why now...why after 10 years did this suddenly happen?

Price. Verizon and SBC's very aggressive price structure after starting out at $50 for 768kbps when cable was at $29. Now the tables are turned and for many potential broadband subs, DSL is $15-$20 and cable $45+.

This latest study putting cable ahead wasn't about cable vs. DSL...it was the affect of household income in what service they chose...it all comes back to price. Price is driving up DSL sales to the point of catching cable rather than cables' more-speed strategy putting cable farther and farther ahead of DSL.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16220797 Fri, 02 Jun 2006 10:09:52 EDT Re: How many find this info useful? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16220781 oliphant : And again, while every market is different...you'll find overpriced or substandard services all over the place, the providers setting the trends are the handful of big ones...SBC/ATT, Verizon, Comcast, Cablevision, Cox, TW etc. Changes in subscriber numbers for small companies like Speed Factory have no impact, but if Comcast or Verizon makes sudden drastic strategy changes, like $15 DSL...they're large enough to have a significant impact in subscriber numbers which is the case of SBC and Verizon certainly did.

That makes this story relevant as I would guess the vast majority of current or potential broadband subscribers are serviced or would be serviced by one of the giants rather than a local ISP like DSL Extreme or Cablelynx.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16220781 Fri, 02 Jun 2006 10:07:25 EDT Re: How many find this info useful? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16220752 GhostDoggy : Oliphant, did you based your broadband Internet connectivity on whether or not cable or telco was ahead in the industry as a global whole? Somehow I am doubting you did, and its the headline I'm lambasting. Its the headline that is suggestive. :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16220752 Fri, 02 Jun 2006 10:02:33 EDT Re: How many find this info useful? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16220737 TheGhost :
said by GhostDoggy See Profile :

{... snip snip snip ...}
Of course I just looked at the headlines. Its the headlines that is spoose form the basis for the news bit, which is what I was responding to. Price didn't sell for me, because the lower price was overly limited in terms of return for that price. $42 vs. $35, 4-meg vs. 1.5 meg. Yeah, I happily paid $7 more for almost three times the bandwidth.
Prices for DSL are much better up here. Comcast charges $43 for their 6MB/384K package (if you have cable) while at&t charges $28 ($40 after 1st yr) for their 3-6MB/384-608K package (need phone line). Higher upload speed is important to some, also part of the reason I may be switching. As a note, cable prices have historically been going up while DSL prices have been going down. In a year for DSL prices may be even lower, or they could be higher, you don't know.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16220737 Fri, 02 Jun 2006 10:00:44 EDT Re: How many find this info useful? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16220685 oliphant : It's not meaningless because pricing by these giant providers is rarely local. A franchise rarely (if ever) charges different rates depending on whether or not you as an individual can get DSL or cable. Sometimes they'll give you a "leave the other guy" discount but that is about it. On a regional basis cable and DSL providers like Comcast and Verizon are in direct competition.

The information, again if true, states that price sells and that if you (a broadband provider) want to compete and grab up new subscribers you have to do it on price more than speed and this would certainly have implications to consumers who would/could in the future see more promos rather than speed upgrades as a result.

Giant providers who set these trends like Comcast and Verizon do business on a much larger scale than individual subscribers. Their strategies are regional where very often they're competing with each other even if not directly competing for each individual subscriber.

And the fact that you happily paid $X for whatever is the opposite of what this story is stating. According to this story, it could be inferred that people prefer paying $15 or whatever the cheap DSL rate may be (which is what is driving subscriber numbers up for DSL) for 768kbps or 1.5Mb service than $45+ for 4Mb+ service.

The relevance to you could be the $7 difference. For those who are in markets where the giants compete the relevance is more obvious.

These DSL subscriber growth stories are basically saying that if the telco wants a shot at subscribers like you who are willing to pay a bit more for speed, telcos have to drop their prices big time. You may not be willing to take the speed cut for $7, but for a $25 difference you may...at least that is what the sales trends are implying. And for the public in general which are in greater number than the DSLR 'speed freaks', price appears to be even more important.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16220685 Fri, 02 Jun 2006 09:51:38 EDT Re: How many find this info useful? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16220645 GhostDoggy : To the individual consumer its meaningless. Why? Because how many consumers have the luxury of having more than one cable provider or more than one telco provider at their home for consideration? For most, its either an A or B proposition. And whichever one provides the best return on whatever interests that one consumer is probably not going to be dependent on whether cable or telco is ahead on the global scale. I'm living proof of such a consumer.

Of course I just looked at the headlines. Its the headlines that is spoose form the basis for the news bit, which is what I was responding to. Price didn't sell for me, because the lower price was overly limited in terms of return for that price. $42 vs. $35, 4-meg vs. 1.5 meg. Yeah, I happily paid $7 more for almost three times the bandwidth.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16220645 Fri, 02 Jun 2006 09:45:36 EDT Re: How many find this info useful? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16220591 oliphant : Of course we're talking about specific providers. Look at why DSL subscriber numbers have increased so much and which providers are responsible for it. It is just a few specific large telco providers generating these increases, namely SBC and Verizon with their dirt cheap promos.

On the other side who is the largest broadband provider overall...Comcast...so what the CEO of the nation's largest broadband provider is saying and how his "speed over price" strategy (which is apparently shared by many cable operators) compares to this information is also certainly relevant.

You just look at the headline and dismiss the entire story without understanding the implications to providers which could be that Roberts is wrong; price sells...speed doesn't.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16220591 Fri, 02 Jun 2006 09:33:07 EDT Re: How many find this info useful? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16220534 GhostDoggy : But we are not talking about a specific cable provider vs. a specific telco provider for one's given local setting. The information in the news headline is industry-wide, which is more moot and useless than useful for someone making a decision on their local geography.

BTW, those complaining are typically those with 'wants' and no 'will'. Its like providing those in rural location because they want technology but not have to do anything to get it (like move).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16220534 Fri, 02 Jun 2006 09:22:21 EDT Re: How many find this info useful? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16220517 oliphant : It speaks to what is motivating people to buy. Comcast CEO Roberts says pretty much that speed sells, but this information, if correct, would say different and that it's price that sells more than speed. IOW, if Comcast introduced a 700kbps tier for $15, they too would see the blitz of new subscribers like Verizon was able to do with their ridiculously cheap $15 tier.

Some here complain that the US is lacking in broadband penetration and this information could be saying that price, not availability is the reason.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16220517 Fri, 02 Jun 2006 09:17:38 EDT How many find this info useful? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16220466 GhostDoggy : Seriously, has anyone actually gone one way or the other based on which industry technology is ahead in terms of total subscribers? No news like ... well ... non-news.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16220466 Fri, 02 Jun 2006 09:09:09 EDT