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insomniac84

join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN

IP Logs should be saved.

It's stupid if some law enforcement officer tracks down the IP address of a criminal and gets a warrant for identifying information and then upon contacting the ISP being told that the logs are lost every month so there is no way to identify the criminal. These logs should be retained for a couple of years for investigation purposes.
Now tracking the sites people visit and handing that data over to the government is unacceptable. That's just as bad as the phone spying. The government should not know what everyone does all day on the internet and they shouldn't know who we call and our exact gps coordinates either.
Necronomikro

join:2005-09-01

1 recommendation

Re: IP Logs should be saved.

said by insomniac84:

It's stupid if some law enforcement officer tracks down the IP address of a criminal and gets a warrant for identifying information and then upon contacting the ISP being told that the logs are lost every month so there is no way to identify the criminal. These logs should be retained for a couple of years for investigation purposes.
How about, oh, I don't know, actually doing investigations in a reasonable amount of time and, I don't know, actually letting someone go due to lack of evidence? A few months is fine, considering the exhorbitant amount of info there. A million customers, a new ip per connection, logging for a month alone is probably several gigs worth of logs. Now, imagine if they had to do it for 2 years? 24xseveral gigs = a HUGE AMOUNT OF DATA THAT WILL ONLY GET LARGER. It's unreasonable to ask them to log that kind of data, and also very expensive to them.

TScheisskopf
World News Trust

join:2005-02-13
Belvidere, NJ

1 recommendation

said by insomniac84:

It's stupid if some law enforcement officer tracks down the IP address of a criminal and gets a warrant for identifying information and then upon contacting the ISP being told that the logs are lost every month so there is no way to identify the criminal. These logs should be retained for a couple of years for investigation purposes.
Now tracking the sites people visit and handing that data over to the government is unacceptable. That's just as bad as the phone spying. The government should not know what everyone does all day on the internet and they shouldn't know who we call and our exact gps coordinates either.
Ballocks. If there is one constant in this life, it is the fact that something like this will be abused. Not might, WILL. Some bright young political appointee or some not so bright DoJ lawyer, LEO or someone with an axe to grind will use this information in ways and manners unintended and dishonest and guarenteed to erode and abrogate already shopworn constitutional rights.

It has always been thus and it ain't about to change.

At the end of the day, it all boils down to the fact that when it comes to the finer points of The Constitution, Alberto Gonzalez is a very good real estate lawyer.

One more thing: All this government data that is going lost, stolen, missing and whatever. You know, sensative personal data of veterans and whatnot? Do you really think this is a coincidence?

As if. It's bidness, most foul. You don't think that this data would end up being trafficked in the same way?

Another hearty "as if".

insomniac84

join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN

Re: IP Logs should be saved.

Well then maybe not keep it for a few years, but a set time frame needs to be standardized. Even if that time frame is a month. Police will need to know how long they have to get the information they seek. Of course all of this is pointless if the government just tells ISPs that they have to assign people a static ip address.
And sure they aren't currently giving the government everyone's browsing habits, but they are selling that information to marketers and anyone else willing to pay for it.
russotto

join:2000-10-05
West Orange, NJ

Re: IP Logs should be saved.

How about this: they can get the information for the current connection, and nothing more. Same as libraries, some of which keep information only for books currently checked out, no borrower or book history.
ross7

join:2000-08-16
said by insomniac84:

Well then maybe not keep it for a few years, but a set time frame needs to be standardized. Even if that time frame is a month. Police will need to know how long they have to get the information they seek. Of course all of this is pointless if the government just tells ISPs that they have to assign people a static ip address.
And sure they aren't currently giving the government everyone's browsing habits, but they are selling that information to marketers and anyone else willing to pay for it.
That time frame should be ZERO years, ZERO days, ZERO hours, ZERO seconds, TTL only. No one should be tracked on the internet, unless contemporaneously and pursuant to a COURT ORDER issued based on PROBABLE CAUSE. Lessor standards should not apply.

The misuse and abuse of personally identifiable data in any instance is morally deplorable, ethically reprehensible, and invasive of our constitutionally protected privacy rights. Acceptance of wholesale collection and abuse of personal data without protest is childishly ignorant. Your voluntary, even eager, willingness to submit reflects a fatal misunderstanding of realpolitik.

guitarzan
Premium
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA

Re: IP Logs should be saved.

said by ross7:

said by insomniac84:

Well then maybe not keep it for a few years, but a set time frame needs to be standardized. Even if that time frame is a month. Police will need to know how long they have to get the information they seek. Of course all of this is pointless if the government just tells ISPs that they have to assign people a static ip address.
And sure they aren't currently giving the government everyone's browsing habits, but they are selling that information to marketers and anyone else willing to pay for it.
That time frame should be ZERO years, ZERO days, ZERO hours, ZERO seconds, TTL only. No one should be tracked on the internet, unless contemporaneously and pursuant to a COURT ORDER issued based on PROBABLE CAUSE. Lessor standards should not apply.

The misuse and abuse of personally identifiable data in any instance is morally deplorable, ethically reprehensible, and invasive of our constitutionally protected privacy rights. Acceptance of wholesale collection and abuse of personal data without protest is childishly ignorant. Your voluntary, even eager, willingness to submit reflects a fatal misunderstanding of realpolitik.
Bravo Ross execellent post !!
Let me add,since this is what they want.Then its time to give them a taste of the medicine they want Americans to take.

1st) We find where they live, they have neighbors also,then film these asshats 24/7 send the video to youtube or some other web site of that sort for the entire WWW to see.

2nd) List entire household members names,The street addresses of all azzhats who want this.

3rd) Publish their private telephone numbers listed and unlisted to the web.

4th)Dig into their backgrounds for any criminal activity, that may have occurred in their lifetime,no matter how minor the offense.Yup,you guessed it make it available on the net.

5th)Photos of their house(s) cars(s)including license plate numbers, family members,relatives,cousins,lawyers,pets...etc etc etc.Splash theses photos and all pertinent info,such as SS numbers, anything they believe should be private all over the net.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.Violate their privacy as much as they expect to violate ours.

In short,spy on the spies and government officials, give them a good dose of their own medicine.Every Constitution and freedom loving American needs to get involved and say enough of this bullshit, Then this will work
--
Bass....the glue of rhythm and harmony...the heartbeat of the band.! Shaking the earth with deep,sonorous vibrations.The dark ominous thunder of an approching storm.
When I was working for a regional ISP, we never kept or sold browsing records. Two reasons. First, that is a ton of data. We had about 55,000 customers. Now think about how much storage space that would take. Second, no one had the time to fool with anything like that. Our sysadmin was busy keeping servers up and running, our network guys were either provisioning equipment for new customers or maintaining our POPs, sales and marketing were busy selling and marketing, billing was making sure we got paid, QA was making sure customers were happy, and tech support was always taking support calls. There simply wasn't enough time to do anything else.

I'm not saying there isn't an ISP out there that isn't doing this, but most of them have enough things on their plate just keeping the ISP running.

bent
and Inga
Premium
join:2004-10-04
Loveland, CO
said by insomniac84:

It's stupid if some law enforcement officer tracks down the IP address of a criminal and gets a warrant for identifying information and then upon contacting the ISP being told that the logs are lost every month so there is no way to identify the criminal. These logs should be retained for a couple of years for investigation purposes.
Now tracking the sites people visit and handing that data over to the government is unacceptable. That's just as bad as the phone spying. The government should not know what everyone does all day on the internet and they shouldn't know who we call and our exact gps coordinates either.
I agree. ISPs should keep IP addy records, and then hand them over when ordered by a WARRANT. They should also give monitoring capability to law enforcement if they have a WARRANT.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Seems pretty simple to me, folks.
--
WAR IS PEACE. FREEDOM IS SLAVERY. IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.