Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r16322473 en Sun, 29 Nov 2009 02:56:32 EDT Sun, 29 Nov 2009 02:56:32 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16331666 KB2PSM : Hey, redeem yourself...contact every single one of those folks and post back completely true and unbiased results.

We are waiting...

said by markopoleo See Profile :

I bet if you did a survey not a single one needed a HAM other than to "chit chat". Or if they did use it for something it could of been done easier with a cell phone.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16331666 Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:56:31 EDT Re: lame http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16331636 KB2PSM : You are a troll by history...
quick to post a factually void and baseless comment only to never return to give proof of your claims or to refute the intelligent responses of others.

Not all of us exist in a vacuum.

Rob

said by markopoleo See Profile :

How is that trolling? Its just stating what everyone is thinking. Trolling would be me saying "HAMS suck, wish they would all disappear". I know HAMs are use full, but not in USA anymore (minus Alaska and Hawaii perhaps).
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16331636 Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:51:59 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16329605 p51d007 : I pray you never have a natural disaster that takes down your phone lines, electric grid & cell phones, because that Amateur radio operator may be the only communications you have.

73's
kb0gnk]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16329605 Mon, 19 Jun 2006 01:52:37 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16328186 rf_engineer :
said by PDXPLT See Profile :

said by rf_engineer See Profile :

BPL has no wireless spectrum to stay in - it's a wired network therefore it has no frequency allocations....just like cable and DSL which deliver broadband just fine without wrecking spectrum.
Well, that's close but not quite true. Licensed services in a portion of spectrum have primary allocations or secondary allocations, but they are rarely exclusive (some of the radio astronomy bands probably being the only ones). Licensed-exempt users under Part 15 are the bottom of the totem pole, but they are explicitly permitted under Part 15 to radiate RF power in certain bands as an intentional, unintentional, or incidental radiator. This can even lead to some degree of interference, so long as such interference does not lead to the level of "harmful" (that's why those electric drills can remain on the market), and in addition, the license-exempt user must accept harmful interference from any source.
What you're saying is true, but it doesn't have any bearing on my original statement. BPL has no wireless frequency allocations. Maybe this is just a discussion of semantics, but being allowed to intentionally or unintentionally emit radiation does not constitute a frequency allocation. Most people would consider a primary or secondary frequency allocation, a frequency allocation....as the name would suggest. The context of my response was to a poster that implied ham radio and BPL should stay on their own frequencies. BPL has no such frequencies.

I know ARRL lawyers disagree with this portion of the law, and argue in nearly all of their filings with the FCC that the Commission has no authority to authorize Part 15 operation in the first place. But they've been trying for over 25 years to win that point, and haven't done so yet (I suppose that's why the position the ARRL takes in press releases to the public and their membership is a much more reasonable one than this official position they take in the FCC filings. Or maybe they have no idea what their lawyers are doing).
You or someone claimed this here before and I asked for some quote or something to support this, but I haven't seen anything. The ARRL has questioned the FCC's ability to allow BPL under Part 15 as the rules were clearly never written with broadband large geographical emitters in mind, but never their authority to authorize Part 15 devices. That would be just plain stupid, since every piece of electronics gear in the US and even ham radio equipment is allowed to exist under Part 15. The ARRL's public and FCC filing positions are the same -- in every news article they link to PDFs of their filings, and it's available via the FCC ECFS to the general public, so I'm not sure how they could pull off such a ruse as you would suggest. It's foolhardy to think ARRL management would spend money on lawyers not representing core ARRL positions on issues when there's thousands of dues-paying members that read all their filings. Again, please quote something from an ARRL filing that supports your statement, otherwise I call you-know-what :-)

BTW, UTP telephone wring is not perfectly balanced, and radiates some as well. With the rollout of VDSL expecially, there was concern about harmful interference in the HF band. Unlike much of the BPL community, however, the DSL community took up the issue head-on, and did technical analyses and field measurements that ulimately resulted in the ham bands being notched out of the VDSL spectrum. Leaky coax cable systems are also frequently an issue.
Agreed, but UTP wiring and even leaky cable systems are much better off with regards to radiation that BPL can ever be.

Bottom line is that it's too bad that these idiot BPL operators in Virginia decided to try to use PR rather than engineering to deal with the issue, and ended up giving all BPL a bad name. It's too bad that the BPL technology supplier used for most of the BPL trials in the U.S. also didn't care about interference. But if you look at Cincinnati, where Current Technologies has been operating for quite some time, hams are OK, airplanes aren't falling out of the sky, and emergency communications services work just fine. So apparently there is a technical solution to these issues, if the willingness to implement it is there, along with the required engineering expertice.
I agree this can be made to work, although it's somewhat of a false solution. Someone's spectrum is getting trashed when a BPL system is in operation. Notching just moves it away from the squeaky wheel. Manassas isn't the first system to give BPL a bad name, though it's the most recent.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16328186 Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:50:28 EDT Re: Somebody in high places got pissed. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16328036 Transmaster :
said by GhostFreeman See Profile :

Dig deep and i'm sure AT&T is involved, like that other market they managed to get shut down.
That was just one of the things I was thinking about. except for the fact none of the big providers thing BPL is in anyway a viable threat to their business.
--
The older I get the more I prefer the company of my dogs over that of man kind.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16328036 Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:22:37 EDT Re: Somebody in high places got pissed. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16327965 rf_engineer :
said by GhostFreeman See Profile :

Dig deep and i'm sure AT&T is involved, like that other market they managed to get shut down.
Why would AT&T even care? This is residential Internet service. AT&T actually played around with BPL two or three years ago in California and pulled out due to business reasons.

Edit: AT&T also funded the Penn State BPL study from two years ago. This was the study that determined BPL could do 1 Gbps under "ideal" conditions.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16327965 Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:08:32 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16327387 PDXPLT :
said by rf_engineer See Profile :

BPL has no wireless spectrum to stay in - it's a wired network therefore it has no frequency allocations....just like cable and DSL which deliver broadband just fine without wrecking spectrum.
Well, that's close but not quite true. Licensed services in a portion of spectrum have primary allocations or secondary allocations, but they are rarely exclusive (some of the radio astronomy bands probably being the only ones). Licensed-exempt users under Part 15 are the bottom of the totem pole, but they are explicitly permitted under Part 15 to radiate RF power in certain bands as an intentional, unintentional, or incidental radiator. This can even lead to some degree of interference, so long as such interference does not lead to the level of "harmful" (that's why those electric drills can remain on the market), and in addition, the license-exempt user must accept harmful interference from any source.

I know ARRL lawyers disagree with this portion of the law, and argue in nearly all of their filings with the FCC that the Commission has no authority to authorize Part 15 operation in the first place. But they've been trying for over 25 years to win that point, and haven't done so yet (I suppose that's why the position the ARRL takes in press releases to the public and their membership is a much more reasonable one than this official position they take in the FCC filings. Or maybe they have no idea what their lawyers are doing).

BTW, UTP telephone wring is not perfectly balanced, and radiates some as well. With the rollout of VDSL expecially, there was concern about harmful interference in the HF band. Unlike much of the BPL community, however, the DSL community took up the issue head-on, and did technical analyses and field measurements that ulimately resulted in the ham bands being notched out of the VDSL spectrum. Leaky coax cable systems are also frequently an issue.

Bottom line is that it's too bad that these idiot BPL operators in Virginia decided to try to use PR rather than engineering to deal with the issue, and ended up giving all BPL a bad name. It's too bad that the BPL technology supplier used for most of the BPL trials in the U.S. also didn't care about interference. But if you look at Cincinnati, where Current Technologies has been operating for quite some time, hams are OK, airplanes aren't falling out of the sky, and emergency communications services work just fine. So apparently there is a technical solution to these issues, if the willingness to implement it is there, along with the required engineering expertice.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16327387 Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:56:01 EDT Re: Somebody in high places got pissed. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16327352 GhostFreeman : Dig deep and i'm sure AT&T is involved, like that other market they managed to get shut down.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16327352 Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:47:20 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16326042 N3OGH : Don't do that in Pennsylvania, you may be the one who gets the ticket...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16326042 Sun, 18 Jun 2006 13:09:14 EDT Re: Somebody in high places got pissed. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16326000 RadioDoc : Overwhelming complaints from everyone operating below 50 MHz, I'd bet. The process takes a long time sometimes.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16326000 Sun, 18 Jun 2006 13:01:23 EDT Somebody in high places got pissed. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16325662 Transmaster : What I am wondering is what behind the scenes thing happened to make the FCC finally move to at last enforce the rules on this issue.
--
The older I get the more I prefer the company of my dogs over that of man kind.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16325662 Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:50:17 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16324390 RadioDoc : Give me your plate number, because I'd love to slam you against the barrier on the Dan Ryan. What an idiotic post.

What are you, 15?
--
Toolmaster of La Grange.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16324390 Sun, 18 Jun 2006 01:57:10 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16324366 91439306 : This doesn't work in CT. The speed limit is 40 on rt 66 in Middlefield. Because it's a double lane highway, people ususally do 60 on that road. The police just tag the cars that match 'the color of the day'. Each day, they start out and pick a new random color. If silver is the color of the day, and you're driving a silver Nissan, you're it, if you're following traffic that's traveling over the limit.
Just because 99% of the drivers on the road at the time are violating the law doesn't make it okay to do so.
--
Take care,



Mark & Mary Ann Weiss



My Kurzweil Music at: '»www.dv-clips.com/theater.htm

'»www.basspig.com Bass Pig's Lair

'»www.mwcomms.com

'»www.adventuresinanimemusic.com Stereo Feed!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16324366 Sun, 18 Jun 2006 01:49:13 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16324325 91439306 :
said by markopoleo See Profile :

I bet if you did a survey not a single one needed a HAM other than to "chit chat". Or if they did use it for something it could of been done easier with a cell phone.
Cellular calls are private, point to point communications. HAM radio has the advantage that anyone can listen, and any licensed HAM can 'drop in' and participate in the discussion. It's a great way to meet people and make new friends. Think of it as a verbal form of internet forum.
--
Take care,



Mark & Mary Ann Weiss



My Kurzweil Music at: '»www.dv-clips.com/theater.htm

'»www.basspig.com Bass Pig's Lair

'»www.mwcomms.com

'»www.adventuresinanimemusic.com Stereo Feed!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16324325 Sun, 18 Jun 2006 01:35:48 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16323780 RayW :
said by MysticGogeta See Profile :

They might call a EPA the ham operators are an endangered species :D
(I assume you are being sarcastic to the "head in the sand" people, but....)

Not really. My 13 year old just got her license. And in the same test session three other kids ranging from 13 to 15 did the same. Out of 24 taking the test, 19 passed and now have licenses to operate as 'hams'.

Of course there were about five or six others who decided NOT to take the test once they learned it was not like CB and there were enforced legal ramifications for incorrect usage.

Isn't it amazing that every time someone mentions BPL, how the same people say 'who needs hams' and bring out the same physics challenged, geographically challenged, and blind views? Thus sidetracking the original thread ...ummm... about 75% of the postings at least? Must be nice to live in a cocoon where nothing goes wrong and the only reality is a computer.
--
I am not lost, I find myself every time.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16323780 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 23:26:31 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16323645 The Folsom :
said by markopoleo See Profile :

Honestly, how many HAM ops can there be in Manassas, Virginia that can get the FCC to shut down a whole ISP..

Lets hope common sense hits the FCC in the head, maybe even send the ham ops takedown orders instead. lol
Clearly, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about... You really should go to your clue locker and pick one. What do YOU care what happens in Manassas? You don't even live there. You just want to sow hate and discontent because you either hate hams or you have nothing of any real substance to contribute. As long as this issue has been in play on this site, you have done nothing but slam hams. Give it a rest already.
--
Who is "Roger?", and why is everybody saying his name on the radio?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16323645 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 23:00:43 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16323485 jeffhambone : In light of the continuing arguments over BPL vs. ham radio, I propose a new Q signal for us hams to use where appropriate: QPK

As with other Q signals, QPK has a question form and and a corresponding answer form:

QPK? -- Shall I plonk you (or poster's name)?
QPK -- I have plonked you (or poster's name).

Other BPL-related Q signals may become necessary, depending on the nature of the discussion.
--
Son, there's only one thing you need to know: HEMI]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16323485 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:28:15 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16323375 moonpuppy :
said by RayW See Profile :

said by K9ERG :

Imagine you are in a life boat in the middle of the North Atlantic and you have a 25 Watt HF radio with which you should be able to communicate with shore stations.
Ah....everyone knows you would just pull out your cell phone and since no one else is around to interfere you can reach all the way to the next cell tower. Besides, modern vessels do not sink. *innocent look*

NO NO NO!!!!! You need to whip out you extremely expensive sat phone and pay a few dollars a minute to get help. :D :D :D :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16323375 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:07:20 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16323337 moonpuppy :
said by markopoleo See Profile :

I bet if you did a survey not a single one needed a HAM other than to "chit chat". Or if they did use it for something it could of been done easier with a cell phone.
Survey says, "You have no clue what you are talking about."

Ask the people about cell phones during Katrina. ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16323337 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:01:39 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16323314 moonpuppy :
said by markopoleo See Profile :

Honestly, how many HAM ops can there be in Manassas, Virginia that can get the FCC to shut down a whole ISP..

Lets hope common sense hits the FCC in the head, maybe even send the ham ops takedown orders instead. lol
There are enough HAMs in Manassas to report all the spectrum pollution that comes from that BPL deployment.

As for common sence, go read the Code of Federal Regulations before you start spouting off what you know NOTHING about.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16323314 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 21:57:31 EDT Re: lame http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16323294 moonpuppy :
said by grcore See Profile :

said by markopoleo See Profile :

Trolling would be me saying "HAMS suck, wish they would all disappear". I know HAMs are use full, but not in USA anymore (minus Alaska and Hawaii perhaps).
Is that the best you can do? Or is your writer on strike?

Give it one more try, and put some thought into it this time..
You are asking too much of him. :D

First rule of trolling is to have at least a valid argument to enrage someone with. ;) Ask him about how Europe uses DC power instead of AC like here in the US. :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16323294 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 21:55:26 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16323250 rf_engineer :
said by driscollw80 See Profile :

Bottom line, stay in your spectum. What would happen if Ham screwed up BPL ?
Ironically, nothing. BPL is a FCC Part 15 device that has to accept any interference from any source. This would include CBs or someone's power drill pushing noise spikes back down the power line. BPL has no wireless spectrum to stay in - it's a wired network therefore it has no frequency allocations....just like cable and DSL which deliver broadband just fine without wrecking spectrum.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16323250 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 21:47:17 EDT Re: lame http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16323228 pvale : It doesn't matter, even if we were tiddly-wink flippers. We are LICENSED users of the spectrum, and as such, the unlicensed services need to protect the licensed user from interference. And we were here first. And all of your BPL systems are UNLICENSED Part 15 devices. To those who say ham radio is irrelevant, we have totally separate infrastructure that will let me send a message across the country on my own power to a similarly equipped ham. Homeland Security takes us seriously, including funding training for those who want to take it to be trained to government communicator standards. If my home station, which has 3 days of backup power, becomes untenable, I can have my equipment in the field, hooked up and operating inside of an hour. We take public service seriously.

Cheers
Perry Vale Extra-class Amateur Radio Operator N0MXJ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16323228 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 21:42:54 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16323139 enkid : K9ERG is right - the problem is global. Perhaps a more realistic lifeboat example would be if the radio propagation from the Manassas area to your lifeboat is really good; the interference would make it more difficult for you to communicate with anyone, anywhere, from the lifeboat. Now add a few more BPL systems in other cities - they'd pretty much blanket the entire planet with radio noise, making it more difficult for anyone to communicate via HF radio.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16323139 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 21:32:01 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16323006 driscollw80 : Bottom line, stay in your spectum. What would happen if Ham screwed up BPL ? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16323006 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 21:11:53 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16322922 phattieg :
said by markopoleo See Profile :

Honestly, how many HAM ops can there be in Manassas, Virginia that can get the FCC to shut down a whole ISP..

Lets hope common sense hits the FCC in the head, maybe even send the ham ops takedown orders instead. lol
Obviously more than you estimated. Either that, or an FCC ham operator got tired of the noise floor due to this poor attempt of the power company trying to offer broadband. Either way, the evidence is there, the interference exists, and despite what argument or flamer posts in this forum, the public, including the FCC agree, the power company is in violation of the intended agreement with the FCC. Hams were here first, regardless of what you think of them. They are the ones who invested in sensitive radio equipment so they could communicate long distances, not a major company. They deserve a voice, and the respect of compliance, since they would be under fire if they did not comply with their FCC/Ham licenses. I think this is fair, and it's about time a half assed operation got shut down for causing drama in a spectrum that does not cause harm back. The BPL provider should fix the issue, and re-deploy the right equipment. With that said, tell me whats so wrong with that idea. Forget the fact that you think ham is outdated, keep in mind the fact that this technology was not designed to use the frequency its negatively affecting, and so therefore it's flawed. Since ham came first, the BPL operator is knowingly violating the law by causing interference on Ham spectrum. It's like me parking my car in your driveway, out of your vehicles way. It would still piss you off I was parked there, because it's your driveway, not mine, and I have no right to invade your space if I don't have your permission. The reality of it all is it boils down to ethics. The power company is just trying to make a buck off the misery of others. Ham equipment is definately nowhere near cheap, so I'd be pissed too.
--
SIPPhone/Gizmo # 17476200648 / Ran by Asterisk & Slackware 10.1.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16322922 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 20:59:39 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16322793 caddyroger : You do not speed to keep up with the other cars. Just take this if you are going 85 in a 70 mph zone and you cause an accident who going to get the ticket. who could be sued. Not the other drivers you will be. It still against the law ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16322793 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 20:26:51 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16322773 MysticGogeta : They might call a EPA the ham operators are an endangered species :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16322773 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 20:20:02 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16322712 RayW :
said by K9ERG :

Imagine you are in a life boat in the middle of the North Atlantic and you have a 25 Watt HF radio with which you should be able to communicate with shore stations.
Ah....everyone knows you would just pull out your cell phone and since no one else is around to interfere you can reach all the way to the next cell tower. Besides, modern vessels do not sink. *innocent look*

DISCLAIMER: I am a licensed radio operator, an emergency communications specialist for my (neighborhood, parish, ward, district, or whatever name you use), member of the Ogden Sheriffs Commo Team and the Davis Emergency Communications Team, and in the past four years a witness to several activations of Ham radio both in the BPL band and outside of it when all other communications failed or were not usable. Yeah, I am prejudiced towards the value of radio over BPL, radio is used more often than many people realize.
--
I am not lost, I find myself every time.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16322712 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 20:05:36 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16322536 smcallah :
said by ropeguru See Profile :

And to add to that, suppose there is an emergency somewhere other than Manasas, but it is the Amateur Radio people in Manassas that they need to communicate with. Then there wuld be issues.
The amateur radio operators in Manassas will certainly be able to save them!

Super Manassas Amateur Radio operators to the rescue! :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16322536 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 19:27:52 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16322473 ropeguru :
said by David95037 See Profile :

said by zod5000 See Profile :

If there were a big disaster, one would think the power would get knocked out, and the interference would stop, but
Q: If the power goes out in an area, BPL interference will go out as well, so Hams could then provide emergency services, so what is the problem?

A: Amateurs need to maintain equipment and practice needed skills before a disaster occurs. If the equipment is unusable during regular times, what is the motivation even to buy equipment? Another thing to consider is that emergency stations need to be able to communicate out to areas that do have power.

From the BPL FAQ;
»www.qrpis.org/~k3ng/bpl.html#21
And to add to that, suppose there is an emergency somewhere other than Manasas, but it is the Amateur Radio people in Manassas that they need to communicate with. Then there wuld be issues.

These people that cannot see the entire picture need to go educate themselves before before posting garbage.
--
FWD#: 223611]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16322473 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 19:18:07 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16322321 Tzale : You fail to realize that radio is a HOBBY for these people. It is not a "cell phone." Far from it.... Show me a cell phone that can talk from New York to Sydney Australia, or to the middle of China or Siberia for FREE and I'll give you a cookie.

There is a lot more to ham radio than you think. The majority of the hobby today is high tech and no longer "AM radio."
Earth-Moon-Earth, Packet Radio (the ORIGINAL technology digital cell phone is based on) etc... If it wasn't for hams, those "cell phones" wouldn't be as small as they are today. A lot of experimentation and SUPPORT in times of need when everything else is down comes from hams. Ask any first responder, or the department of homeland security, FEMA, etc and they will tell you. Ham Radio ARES (Amateur Radio Emergency Services and RACES Radio Amateur Civil Emergency Service are connected directly to municipal/state/federal agencies. Ever hear of MARS? Military Amateur Radio Service? Amateur Radio operators are given permission to operate on Military frequencies and participate in drills and help the military when asked upon.

I myself participate in 4 daily "traffic" nets for emergency preparedness across New York and New Jersey and a weekly Skywarn net for severe weather preparedation. I spend countless hours "helping" my community. Maybe you don't see it with your eyes, but when I am needed, I'll be ready. Just like you don't respect the Emergency Squad who will save your life if you had a heart attack until you actually need them.

Take care,

A Computer and Radio Geek,

-Tzale]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16322321 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 18:42:06 EDT Re: lame http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321951 grcore :
said by markopoleo See Profile :

Trolling would be me saying "HAMS suck, wish they would all disappear". I know HAMs are use full, but not in USA anymore (minus Alaska and Hawaii perhaps).
Is that the best you can do? Or is your writer on strike?

Give it one more try, and put some thought into it this time..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321951 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 17:20:52 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321783 Slidetbone : Chit-chat? Get real!

You may not know it, but HAM operators are all over the USA, Canada...worldwide!

When the NY blackout happened, it was amateur radio that took over. When Katrina hit Louisiana and Mississippi, HAM radio was in full force.

Reliability of a HAM radio depends on the rig, the antenna and/or access to repeaters. In all cases, these rigs put out more wattage than the 0.6 watt cellphone. And when the power is out, no celltower, no cell coverage. Go to a remote site and see what gets used in normal and emergency communications.

HAM will never die! Just hope you do not need to depend on a HAM operator in your lifetime. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321783 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:46:18 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321691 kws7114 : From a brief online search, there appears to be well over 150 hams in Manassas. It isn't how many complain, but how long a company can ignore the regulations to cooperate by not interfering with hams. The FCC finally saw that ComTek was stonewalling the obvious and now has less than 20 days to fix it or have thew FCC shut them down. How embarrassing for a local power company and anyone supporting BPL adaptation.

And fortunately - hams will help no matter how much we get heckled about our hobby. Don't knock it til you've at least talked to a ham and let them show you the hobby and potential for service. :-)

June 20 is Kids Day. Local hams have their station(s) available to kids to talk to other kids for a day.

What other form of communications allows entire schools to participate in talking to the crews on the International Space Station, giving kids a real feel for what space is like. Its time for kids to dream and follow their dreams. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321691 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:29:08 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321686 Rogers1 : I prefer the Term Geek]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321686 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:28:02 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321615 GadgetsRme :
said by Obliteration See Profile :

said by N4QX :

When I prosecuted traffic tickets, we loved uping the charges against clowns who used this logic to Reckless Driving. We took a lot of folks who needed to be off the road off the road that way.When I prosecuted traffic tickets, we loved uping the charges against clowns who used this logic to Reckless Driving. We took a lot of folks who needed to be off the road off the road that way.

COMTek needs to be off the road.

COMTek needs to be off the road.When I prosecuted traffic tickets, we loved uping the charges against clowns who used this logic to Reckless Driving. We took a lot of folks who needed to be off the road off the road that way.

COMTek needs to be off the road.
Ummm.... what damn driving school did you attend? My book states what mark stated before. If traffic is going on a road at 45mph and the speed limit is 35mph you are SUPPOSE to speed up to match flow of traffic. Since the traffic will be constantly try to pass you, you will likely end up causing an accident due to the fact that you are disrupting flow of traffic.
When I prosecuted traffic tickets, we loved uping the charges against clowns who used this logic to Reckless Driving. We took a lot of folks who needed to be off the road off the road that way.

COMTek needs to be off the road.
This was stated by my driving teacher, a POLICE CHIEF who visited during my driving class, and the damn driving rule book.
Besides repairing computers I'm a driving instructor, trained and supervised by a nationally certified driving instructor. I had to take 35 hours of classroom instruction and pass with a 92. Ater that I drove 48 hrs with the senior instructor before he would turn me loose by myself with students. I further took the class and received certification by the Compliance Section, Division of Motor Vehicle, State of Colorado to administer the Colo. State Basic Skills Operator Test. That all said, mike52, I call "Bullshit".
--
Gadgets]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321615 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:14:58 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321554 MacLeech : As a cable system maintenance tech, one of my duties is to fight ingress into the system... along with fixing egress (leak) sources.

Its a full time job.

The system isn't perfectly shielded. So some stuff ALWAYS gets in and its much harder to find those then the RF unintentionally leaking out.

FCC requires cable companies to search for, log, and fix any leaks (egress). Ingress isn't controlled by the FCC and most cable companies only look for it when it becomes an issue. So there are lots of minor ingress sources that never get fixed.

Usually its from point sources like breaks in the cable, bad equipment connected to the system (aka cheap TVs, VCRs, TV tuner cards, etc...), or radio transmitters overwhelming the shielding in some locations.

Imagine what would happen with a RF source a few feet away from the cable across the most of the cable distribution system... EVERY weak spot will become an ingress source. It'd be ingress WAY beyond the random stuff affecting most cable systems now...

...right in the frequency range used by ALL upstream communications on a cable system.

Cable modems, VOD, interactive cable services of all types would be affected.
--
For official Adelphia support, contact Adelphia. I'm just here for advice...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321554 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:00:17 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321179 anon : It is not a problem confined to the immediate Manassas VA area. The problem is GLOBAL.

Imagine you are in a life boat in the middle of the North Atlantic and you have a 25 Watt HF radio with which you should be able to communicate with shore stations. Assume that conditions are such that the only shore stations that would hear you are in Manassas VA. The ~6.25 micro-volt signal you would produce into the receiver in Manassas would be wiped out by the 500 micro-volts of garbage radiated 24/7 by the ComTek BPL system.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321179 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 15:24:35 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321391 ARGONAUT : The HAMs use public air waves and a privet company is disrupting public waves...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321391 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 15:22:32 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321374 rf_engineer :
said by Slacker44 See Profile :

Do they speak in plain english or do I have to learn some sort of underground nerd speak?
I've never heard nerd speak here on BBR :uhh:

Broadband nerds, computer nerds, radio nerds, electronics nerds.... whatever nerd discipline, we're all NERDS...! :-)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321374 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 15:19:01 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321359 rf_engineer :
said by MacLeech See Profile :

said by markopoleo See Profile :

Honestly, how many HAM ops can there be in Manassas, Virginia that can get the FCC to shut down a whole ISP..

Lets hope common sense hits the FCC in the head, maybe even send the ham ops takedown orders instead. lol
You do realize that your Charter cable modem service (like all DOCSIS cable networks) upstream connection runs in the same frequency range that the BPL systems do... don't you?

Cable lines run parallel to electric lines for miles just a few feet away.... so the possibility of interference is huge.

If such a BPL system were lit up in your area, more then likely your cable modem service would go down or be unreliable.... for weeks or months...
Not necessarily. There's a key difference between BPL and cable. Cable is shielded, BPL is not. If Cable had the same radiation characteristics as BPL, it would wreck all the spectrum from HF to UHF and take out just about everything. But cable has been using these same frequencies for years with nearly no problems to wireless licensees due to the shielding and strict radiation guidelines. This is what makes BPL such a bad choice, they're attempting to create a really bad leaky cable system, and minimize the damage to spectrum by using only HF and VHF frequencies, and when that doesn't work, deny there's issues in press releases.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321359 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 15:15:14 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321343 rf_engineer :
said by markopoleo See Profile :

"But the law says the BPL system (unlicensed Part 15) can't interfere with any licensed services. Common sense would dictate that they need to follow their own laws. Sounds like you need a dose of common sense."

Common sense would make lots of laws obsolete. Its not a matter if its a law now, its a matter of its a right law. Law says you must obey the speed limit, common sense says if every car is going past you at 85 when speed limit is 70 you speed up regardless of law.
Your "common sense" isn't sense at all. Raising the speed limit at some point gets more people killed. If you raise the speed limit to 85, then people go 95.

Common sense and sane engineering practice would tell one that a wired network shouldn't interfere with wireless spectrum. Cable, fiber, DSL, and T1/DS-3 facilities all carry as much or more information that BPL yet none of them radiate any or a significant amount of RF radiation. Why should BPL be any different and be allowed to wreck a natural resource that allows worldwide communications, and delivers less than existing broadband solutions. The FCC laws regarding interference aren't obsolete. It's what makes your cell phone work, allows emergency responder communications to function, your TV and FM radio work, and several other services.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321343 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 15:10:31 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321277 MacLeech :
said by markopoleo See Profile :

Honestly, how many HAM ops can there be in Manassas, Virginia that can get the FCC to shut down a whole ISP..

Lets hope common sense hits the FCC in the head, maybe even send the ham ops takedown orders instead. lol
You do realize that your Charter cable modem service (like all DOCSIS cable networks) upstream connection runs in the same frequency range that the BPL systems do... don't you?

Cable lines run parallel to electric lines for miles just a few feet away.... so the possibility of interference is huge.

If such a BPL system were lit up in your area, more then likely your cable modem service would go down or be unreliable.... for weeks or months...
--
For official Adelphia support, contact Adelphia. I'm just here for advice...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321277 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 14:58:56 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321275 Obliteration :
said by N4QX :

When I prosecuted traffic tickets, we loved uping the charges against clowns who used this logic to Reckless Driving. We took a lot of folks who needed to be off the road off the road that way.

COMTek needs to be off the road.
Ummm.... what damn driving school did you attend? My book states what mark stated before. If traffic is going on a road at 45mph and the speed limit is 35mph you are SUPPOSE to speed up to match flow of traffic. Since the traffic will be constantly try to pass you, you will likely end up causing an accident due to the fact that you are disrupting flow of traffic.

This was stated by my driving teacher, a POLICE CHIEF who visited during my driving class, and the damn driving rule book.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321275 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 14:58:39 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321189 bigskank : With all due respect markopoleo, your argument of "its not a matter if its a law now" is rather silly. Who decides what a "right law" is in a case like this? Obviously there are two widely differering groups having an opinion about what the right law is here; the hams feel that interference should be illegal because why should BPL have rights to pollute the specturm. ComTek feels it should be able to do so, and that the hams are holding back technology. Arguing which law is "right" is always based on a particular person's viewpoint; there is no objective standard here. As such, since there is a law in place, it ought be enforced. If BPL providers can convince the FCC to change regs to allow BPL to pollute the ham's spectrum, then fine. Until then, it should be enforced as it is.

As a similar analogy, what if BPL polluted the spectrum carrying the emergency broadcast system signals? Or the atomic clock signals? Both are used by a relatively small portion of the population, but both have their proper uses in times of emergency and/or specialized business applications. Is it "right" for one technology such as BPL (also used by a relatively small portion of the population) to hinder other technologies? This isn't a question of competition (BPL and Ham's aren't directly competing against each other in the business sense, such as cable and dsl do). This is one where technology that has been poorly implemented (in that it violates current laws) in such a way that it damages the activities of another group of citizens.

So I ask, how is the law in this case "wrong"? What gives BPL the right to pollute spectrum to the detriment of a group of citizens with equal right to pursue their own communication methods? Why should BPL not have to play by the same anti-interference rules that cable, dsl, satellite, hams, and every other electronic device in the US must play by? What makes BPL so different that many people think it can interfere with other licensed communication methods other than the fact that some people prefer BPL over hams? I'm not trying to troll here [which I guess is like starting a statement saying "I'm not a racist, but..."], I'm just really wanting to know why so many people feel that BPL should have a more preferential status than other electronics and communication methods in this country? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321189 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 14:42:16 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321081 anon : When I prosecuted traffic tickets, we loved uping the charges against clowns who used this logic to Reckless Driving. We took a lot of folks who needed to be off the road off the road that way.

COMTek needs to be off the road.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321081 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 14:34:16 EDT Re: lame http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321148 Jigsaw :
said by markopoleo See Profile :

How is that trolling? Its just stating what everyone is thinking.
I'll do my own thinking thanks!!!! :uhh:
--
»www.auralmoon.com/html/ Stimulating ears for 6 years]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321148 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 14:32:44 EDT Re: lame http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321053 markopoleo : How is that trolling? Its just stating what everyone is thinking. Trolling would be me saying "HAMS suck, wish they would all disappear". I know HAMs are use full, but not in USA anymore (minus Alaska and Hawaii perhaps).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321053 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 14:08:39 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321044 markopoleo : I bet if you did a survey not a single one needed a HAM other than to "chit chat". Or if they did use it for something it could of been done easier with a cell phone.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321044 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 14:06:49 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321037 markopoleo : "But the law says the BPL system (unlicensed Part 15) can't interfere with any licensed services. Common sense would dictate that they need to follow their own laws. Sounds like you need a dose of common sense."

Common sense would make lots of laws obsolete. Its not a matter if its a law now, its a matter of its a right law. Law says you must obey the speed limit, common sense says if every car is going past you at 85 when speed limit is 70 you speed up regardless of law. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16321037 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 14:04:51 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16320886 Michieru2 : In order to be a HAM operator you must have your license to do so. Same as GMRS radio.

What you say is nerd talk, is plain english for people who understand. or are you basically saying if someone was talking to you in japanese and you did not understand would that consitute as nerd talk? Or simply your plain ignorance?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16320886 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 13:34:59 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16320815 rf_engineer :
said by markopoleo See Profile :

Honestly, how many HAM ops can there be in Manassas, Virginia that can get the FCC to shut down a whole ISP..
Not an ISP, a BPL network. Comtek messed up when their own measurement reports shown they were above the emissions limit. The emissions limit doesn't really involve hams and is independent of the harmful interference language in Part 15.

Lets hope common sense hits the FCC in the head, maybe even send the ham ops takedown orders instead. lol
But the law says the BPL system (unlicensed Part 15) can't interfere with any licensed services. Common sense would dictate that they need to follow their own laws. Sounds like you need a dose of common sense.

Too bad you put so much energy into your trolling and can't support any of your past nonsensical posts like this one with facts.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16320815 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 13:20:40 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16320762 Slacker44 : Do they speak in plain english or do I have to learn some sort of underground nerd speak? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16320762 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 13:09:25 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16320691 Tzale : There are 343 records matching +manassas,* +va*

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KI4HMH Bothe Kristi A 11027 Edge Park Ct 304 Manassas VA 20109
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KI4IST Gustavus Robert L 8703 Barnett St Manassas VA 20110
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KI4KXJ Demaret Richard B 10329 Cabin Ridge Court Manassas VA 20110
KI4MAD Wismer Timothy L 7301 Spriggs Ford Ct Manassas VA 20111
KI4MIX IMC Radio Club 7000 Infantry Ridge Road Suite 200 Manassas VA 20
KI4MNH Outland John J 12808 Canova Dr Manassas VA 20112
K9IMC IMC Radio Club 7000 Infantry Ridge Road Suite 200 Manassas VA 20
KI4NFH Langheld Deborah 12011 Bradley Forest Rd Manassas VA 20112
KI4OBU Akers Christopher H 8266 Highland St Manassas VA 20110
KI4OWH Price John B 6289 Occoquan Forest Dr Manassas VA 20112
KI4PCM Rabe Patrisha J 8587 Jayhawk Terrace 204 Manassas VA 20110
KI4POT Allen Christopher B 9160 Pristine CT Manassas VA 20110
KI4PVG Chrobak Walter J 8894 Bond Court Manassas VA 20110

Copyright © 2006 by QRZ.COM
Sat Jun 17 16:49:20 2006 UTC

Hams are essential to public service. Contact one of these Hams living in Manassass, VA and see for yourself. I'm sure they would be glad to "inform" you.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16320691 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:50:52 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16320521 K4GVT : Well obviously your misguided view is one sided.
Look, BPL is flawed even from a data exchange point of view.
If the system was in full use the data rate would so low do to packet collisions.
We hear and see this even with the limited customer base here in Manassas.
If you think this is a panacea for linking to the Internet, think again.
Why not focus on wireless technology instead?

Additionally BPL is highly susceptible to ingress from other RF sources.
Are you prepared to be interrupted by every mobile (not just Hams) operator
driving through town. "BPL is a "flawed technology!"

George
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16320521 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 12:17:21 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16320397 David95037 :
said by zod5000 See Profile :

If there were a big disaster, one would think the power would get knocked out, and the interference would stop, but
Q: If the power goes out in an area, BPL interference will go out as well, so Hams could then provide emergency services, so what is the problem?

A: Amateurs need to maintain equipment and practice needed skills before a disaster occurs. If the equipment is unusable during regular times, what is the motivation even to buy equipment? Another thing to consider is that emergency stations need to be able to communicate out to areas that do have power.

From the BPL FAQ;
»www.qrpis.org/~k3ng/bpl.html#21]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16320397 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 11:54:37 EDT lame http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16320375 grcore :
said by markopoleo See Profile :

Lets hope common sense hits the FCC in the head, maybe even send the ham ops takedown orders instead. lol
That was a pretty lame troll...

You can do better can't you?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16320375 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 11:46:38 EDT Re: Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16320372 zod5000 : I always thought they were still concerned about HAM radio in case of emergencies, and you need to use something else for communication.

Look at the communication problems that happened in New Orleans last year. I don't entirely understand how they work, but they are long range analog devices aren't they? They would seem to be a rather handy item to have in such a case.

If there were a big disaster, one would think the power would get knocked out, and the interference would stop, but I guess the powers one of the first things they try and put back on.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16320372 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 11:46:26 EDT Sounds like a annoyed HAM op. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16320318 markopoleo : Honestly, how many HAM ops can there be in Manassas, Virginia that can get the FCC to shut down a whole ISP..

Lets hope common sense hits the FCC in the head, maybe even send the ham ops takedown orders instead. lol]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16320318 Sat, 17 Jun 2006 11:35:59 EDT