| Witch hunt - lots of accusations and no proof Looks like just 1 more liberal media witch hunt. No proof, but lots of accusations and suppositions. It is ashamed the MSM has turned into the Enquirer where the reporters just make up their stories with no facts or research involved.
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 morboComplete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
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1 edit | what exactly are you saying is wrong or non-factual? oh the irony. you are the pot calling the kettle black. |
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 Combat ChuckToo Many CannibalsPremium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA | said by morbo:what exactly are you saying is wrong or non-factual? oh the irony. you are the pot calling the kettle black. Those who make claims are expected to provide evidence supporting those claims, not those pointing out there is no evidence presented.
What the editorial writer presented as evidence is nothing more than pointing out various things may or may not be related. And even then much of it only looks the way he wants it to look if you think the landscape of phone companies is still as it was back in 1993, which it most certainly is not.
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gau gau |
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 tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL | [...]not those pointing out there is no evidence presented.
This is slightly different. They aren't pointing out there is no evidence, but rather are saying that there will be no investgation. There is no admission nor denial and no due process. |
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| said by tsu9:[...]not those pointing out there is no evidence presented.This is slightly different. They aren't pointing out there is no evidence, but rather are saying that there will be no investgation. There is no admission nor denial and no due process. The problem with having an investigation of every accusation is that the contending parties will make non-stop accusations thereby preventing anything from being done at all. The whole activity of government would be nothing but non-stop investigations.
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tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL | You say this, but you know that it isn't quite true. And, even if it were, that does not preclude proper investigations. As people are so fond of quipping, "if nothing wrong is being done, there is nothing to hide/fear."
Government without proper accountabilty is a horrific thing.
I'm not saying it is at that point, but when something relatvely simplistic as this is quietly pushed under the rug, it has no choice but raise questions about what is or is not happening. There is enough evidence to open an inquiry (though, not to the level of this conspiracy theorist's playground OP), but the government is simply not allowing any questioning of its methods or non-methods, and I find that a potentially more dangerous stance than simply allowing the investigations to properly continue.
Scrutiny is a very important aspect of our governmental process, let's not forget. |
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| reply to morbo
Its like the USA today article, they put out a big story, and then wait till the weekend to admit they may the whole thing up. You can't trust the media, they are nothing more than left wing commmunist pinkos, and the only good communist is a dead one! |
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tsu9
join:2001-08-17
Wheeling, IL | McCarthy, is that you? |
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| reply to fAcEtIOUs
How hard is it to say, "as spokesperson for company X, we are not tracking, data mining, nor collecting information for ourselves, or for any external entity, federal or otherwise, that involves private information on our consumers."?
While I have not gone finding the content that originally sprouted the AT&T-NSA issue at hand, if someone delivers a bunch of paperwork that 'appears' to be in violation of federal wiretapping laws, it would be relatively easy for a company to state clearly not true and defend themselves in an open forum (no, not a web-forum) when J6P can ask the question.
I've found it difficult to take into any serious the claim by AT&T to not have its hands dirty when the way things have responded only further questions their truthfulness. BTW, wasn't documents provided to a newspaper originally on this subject? And its nice seeing how federal judges do a 180º about face after a White House visit. Yeah, nothing suspicious there. |
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Combat ChuckToo Many CannibalsPremium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
2 edits | reply to tsu9
said by tsu9:This is slightly different. They aren't pointing out there is no evidence, but rather are saying that there will be no investgation. There is no admission nor denial and no due process. I'm not commenting on the fact that there isn't going to be an investigation, I'm commenting on morbo's insinuation that it's up to someone to prove something isn't true; which is something many people posting here think is a valid defense of their opinions. "I can't prove I'm right but you can't prove I'm wrong so until you can I'm right" is a ridiculous notion.
I don't agree with the original article, but it was from the editorial section so it wasn't really misrepresenting it self as hard facts. It's not the editorial writers fault that no one seems to have noticed that it was an editorial, tho I'm pretty confident that he doesn't mind that people are treating it as news.
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gau gau |
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 Rogue WolfAte Your Homework, And Framed The Dog
join:2003-08-12
Troy, NY | Re: Witch hunt - lots of accusations and no proof Ah, but you're forgetting the typical mindset:
"(Insert names of people I disagree with) are completely biased and don't know what they're talking about. However, (insert names of people I agree with) are fair and unbiased."
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fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | reply to Rogue Wolf
Re: Witch hunt - lots of accusations and no proof Oh, I didn't forget it.. just didn't mention it becuase I basically don't classify people that way - even though it's true. Those people are just a sign of party line thinkers which I mentioned.
MANY people, however, hate the word "compromise"... it's viewed as an evil word but the trust of the matter is that until people DO learn it and DO embrace it, we ARE going to continue to implode as a world.
There is not ONE shred of evidence of a society that has lasted where one thought, one mind, and one way of life "was the way" things were. It's not in the human nature to accept that.
People can disagree all they want, but until they stop worrying about who's bias or who's unbias... well, it all doesn't matter. It DOES matter when people FORCE *not their views* but they 'ways' onto others.
Good example. Gays and marriage.. a big wedge issue in this country.
People for it - just want to be equal and have the same rights as others. That group is not forcing the 'way' onto others.. they are not telling anyone they MUST marry the same sex.
People against it - they have a view of the way things should be and by fighting and doing anything they can to stop the other group from marrying because their beliefs or 'ways' say it's wrong, well that's forcing their 'ways' on to the other group.
This example happnes over and over in life. I am SO not religious, but I make NO effort to stop religion, and I have NO means to want to live by any of it's rules and beleifs.. I know that religion can exist so long as it's views or ways are not forced onto others. Unfortunately that group has a hard to recirprocating in return.
This all rounds back up to what you just mentioned.. ""(Insert names of people I disagree with) are completely biased and don't know what they're talking about. However, (insert names of people I agree with) are fair and unbiased.""
In my opinion, the civil war in this country NEVER ended. Comments like Archie Bunker above prove that to be true.
People are too worried about what someone else is doing to even worry about their own back yard any more. Distrust runs rampid, and life doens't move forward. Politicians no longer campaign on what they can do, rather, they spend their entire time pointing out the mistakes or downside of the other guy only to end their ad with "vote for me"..
Americans, and people in general, are so mind fu*ked that anytime a piece of news hits the airways it's easily dismissed as "the liberal media hating america" or "it's just a move to gain X"...
by the way, a little off the rant here, there are not two americas.. and there isn't one america.. there are MANY americas.. the land of the free gives us the right to persue happiness and one persons happiness is NOT going to be someone elses. Patriotism is for EVERYONE with all views.. not just those with the loudest mouth and those than can muster the popular view.
I think there ARE people that should leave the country, but it's isn't the so-called "liberal pinkos".. it's those that are opressing their fellow man.. that behaviour belongs in those awesome middle eastern countries. |
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fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | reply to GhostDoggy
Re: Witch hunt - lots of accusations and no proof said by GhostDoggy:How hard is it to say, "as spokesperson for company X, we are not tracking, data mining, nor collecting information for ourselves, or for any external entity, federal or otherwise, that involves private information on our consumers."? It's not hard.. well, kinda. It's called 'leaving an open door for later spin'... to simply come out and say something direct is not the way things are done any more. They either did, or they didn't. If they didn't, why not just say so? If they did, then you would most likely get answers like they have so far said, or really didn't say. It leaves an open door for later 'interpreting' later when other things come flying out of the corporate closet that they need to discuss.
Plausible denability. |
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 JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA
1 edit | reply to tsu9
Re: Witch hunt - lots of accusations and no proof People are forgetting that Bush has already admitted to illegal domestic eavesdropping programs. He has -admitted it-. There is no wiggle room for him. Plain and simple. These morons who are defending the administration and company for breaking the law and violating the Constitution would be calling for blood if this wasn't a republican administration. Fact. |
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JakCrow
join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA | reply to fiberguy
What's ironic is how much in common the fake conservatives in America have with the islamic fundamentalists they claim to hate. |
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