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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

1 edit

1 recommendation

Are people really shocked?

Lets review, as much as people dont want to believe it Utopia is a business. Business's exist to earn money. Freeloaders take away from potential earnings. Its funny how so many people proclaim that Utopia is the "darling" ISP and how everyone else should be like them, yet they do the same shit as the other telco's/ISP's! Ahhh, the irony is thick enough to cut with a knife.

EDIT: Summary for those who cant figure it out. For-profit business's exist to make $. They will ALL do whatever it takes to maximize profit while minimizing customer churn. No ISP that wishes to stay in business for very long will ever offer Joe User an uncapped, unlimited connection for $10 per month. If people really need a "better" connection spend some money and buy a business class product. /rant
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bbenso1

join:2004-11-28
Baltimore, MD

1 recommendation

said by wifi4milez:

Its funny how so many people proclaim that Utopia is the "darling" ISP and how everyone else should be like them, yet they do the same shit as the other telco's/ISP's! Ahhh, the irony is thick enough to cut with a knife.
Except that you're missing one important point here - UTOPIA is not doing the throttling or capping. UTOPIA simply makes the network available, other ISPs actually offer the service and it is those other ISPs that are implementing caps and throttling.


Agent_haito

join:2002-09-20
Winston Salem, NC
reply to wifi4milez
100 gigs a month is certainly a nice round number if had no choice in my ISP's cap usage...

Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

1 recommendation

reply to bbenso1
It's the simple details he missed.

axus

join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to wifi4milez
Refresh my memory, was this a network that multiple companies could offer service on, or everything run by the local government?

Anyhow, the company or companies are in a competitive market, if one of them can remove the caps without losing money, then they'll get more business until the other guys fall in line. The point of Utopia is competition with 1.5Mbps DSL and Cable, and providing to places stuck on dialup. Small companies can implement these simplistic throttling schemes more quickly, probably just one VP being impressed by the throttling vendors. But eventually they will lose to someone who offers a better deal.

Most people will accept throttling if it lowers their bill, but nobody likes caps, so the market should come to some equilibrium as long as there are enough providers. Watch out though if the Utopia providers start consolidating, then they become just like the cable monopoly.


wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

1 recommendation

reply to bbenso1
said by bbenso1:

said by wifi4milez:

Its funny how so many people proclaim that Utopia is the "darling" ISP and how everyone else should be like them, yet they do the same shit as the other telco's/ISP's! Ahhh, the irony is thick enough to cut with a knife.
Except that you're missing one important point here - UTOPIA is not doing the throttling or capping. UTOPIA simply makes the network available, other ISPs actually offer the service and it is those other ISPs that are implementing caps and throttling.
I am not missing the point. The OTHER business's that offer services on Utopia's network are (get ready).....also in the business of making money!! That means that THEY would have to pay extra for Joe User eating up the bandwidth that THEY paid for. Still not make sense to you guys?? Go re-read my edited first post for clarification.
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chemaupr

join:2005-06-06
Alexandria, VA
reply to Agent_haito
100 gigs is more than ANY Residential ISP caps TODAY for the price and speed.


FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 recommendation

reply to wifi4milez
said by wifi4milez:

EDIT: Summary for those who cant figure it out. For-profit business's exist to make $. They will ALL do whatever it takes to maximize profit while minimizing customer churn.
Imagine that. A business wants their revenues to exceed their costs and actually make a profit for the investors. Lock them up, I say, lock them up.
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
reply to chemaupr
said by chemaupr:

100 gigs is more than ANY Residential ISP caps TODAY for the price and speed.
Yet somehow people on this site still bitch and moan. It's almost comical, isnt it!
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bbenso1

join:2004-11-28
Baltimore, MD
reply to wifi4milez
said by wifi4milez:

The OTHER business's that offer services on Utopia's network are (get ready).....also in the business of making money!! That means that THEY would have to pay extra for Joe User eating up the bandwidth that THEY paid for. Still not make sense to you guys??
Yes, they're in the business of making money. However, the big difference here is that they are all using the network provided by UTOPIA. Which means that instead of getting 6M/384k connection from Comcast (or whoever) for $50/month with caps and no other alternative these people are getting SYMMETRICAL, MULTI-MEG connections for $40/month and the option of switching to another provider if the service they're getting doesn't meet their needs.

Frankly, I wouldn't mind a cap of 100Gig/month if I could get a symmetrical, multi-meg connection. The 6Meg download speeds I've got do a decent enough job, it's the increased upload speed I want. Not to mention the option to go with another provider since my Comcast connection has been out for over a week with no resolution and I can't get a connection from anyone else. No, satellite is not an option for me as there are trees which don't belong to me blocking the skyline exposure that I need.

Ahrenl

join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA

1 recommendation

reply to wifi4milez
Actually, you sounded incredibly ignorant. The point you also missed of why Utopia is the next sliced bread is that multiple companies offer service (which is called competition) across the Utopia network, and the users may choose which ISP to use.

So if your ISP is throttling you, choose another, or, gasp, you can start your own ISP without being subjected to anti-competitive duopoly tactics, or "building your own".

Not to mention, 100gb's a month is hardly a restrictive cap. That can easily be described as "commercial" use.


GetAClueDude

@cox.net
reply to FFH5
And as customers, we are suppose to take as much as we can, bringing that profitability as close to zero as possible.


GetAClueDude

@cox.net
reply to wifi4milez
As long as those limitations are clearly spelled out and are fairly reasonable, there really isn't a reason to complain. 100GB is a tab bit low for a 15Mbps product, but its much better than, say 30 or 60GB. 150GB would be a slightly more reasonable number.

As for getting a business product, why should a home user have to get a business product for home use ? If a provider advertises an unlimited product for home use, it should be prepared to offer an unlimited product for home use.


Cjaiceman
Premium,MVM
join:2004-10-12
Parker, CO
kudos:2
reply to wifi4milez
quote:
100 gigs is more than ANY Residential ISP caps TODAY for the price and speed.
For that price and speed yes, but its not the highest CAP. Comcast won't even notice you until you start reaching 250-300Gigs a month. Qwest won't say anything at all, I don't even think they have CAPS. I've seen some users on Qwest do over 350Gig/month (on the 7Mbps/896Kbps plan of course). Its ridiculous of how low that cap is, esp for having 15Mb/sec SYMMETRICAL speed. That's like buying the top end Alien ware to use it for word processing. Oh well, not much we can do about it except not get the service.

Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
reply to Ahrenl
Do you get it now wifi4milez?

fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
reply to chemaupr
said by chemaupr:

100 gigs is more than ANY Residential ISP caps TODAY for the price and speed.
and you know this how? I think you should do a little more homework there...


wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
reply to Ahrenl
said by Ahrenl:

Actually, you sounded incredibly ignorant. The point you also missed of why Utopia is the next sliced bread is that multiple companies offer service (which is called competition) across the Utopia network, and the users may choose which ISP to use.
Hmmm.....And my comment about how a business exists to make money is related to your "comment" how?

said by Ahrenl:

So if your ISP is throttling you, choose another, or, gasp, you can start your own ISP without being subjected to anti-competitive duopoly tactics, or "building your own".

Not to mention, 100gb's a month is hardly a restrictive cap. That can easily be described as "commercial" use.
Ok well lets once AGAIN go back to my original post for a quick lesson. Given that all business's exist to make money, those that chose to offer crappy service, low caps, etc. will be the ones that have to close their doors when enough customers leave! So basically, all these responses actually back up my original post. I am still not sure where this whole "other competition" thing came into the mix, but you cant win them all.

(One last time!)For those who STILL dont see the coorleation between my orignal quote and what is being discussed now please see below, then ponder, then re-read.
said by wifi4milez:

They will ALL do whatever it takes to maximize profit while minimizing customer churn.


Do you guys get it now???
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Ahrenl

join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
said by wifi4milez:

Lets review, as much as people dont want to believe it Utopia is a business. Business's exist to earn money. Freeloaders take away from potential earnings. Its funny how so many people proclaim that Utopia is the "darling" ISP and how everyone else should be like them, yet they do the same shit as the other telco's/ISP's! Ahhh, the irony is thick enough to cut with a knife.
Actually here's your original post where you blame Utopia for throttling and capping. However it's not Utopia at all, but the ISP's offering service over the Utopia network. Since you can freely choose which ISP you want to use over the network, you can choose NOT to use those with caps and throttling restrictions that affect the way you use the internet.

That's why you sound ignorant, there is no irony, as there's no comparison to the "other telco's/ISP's" as when they apply restrictions to your usage, you have NO choice, except to NOT use the internet; which for many is not a choice.

I'm also not sure what you mean by freeloaders, as I don't know of anyone who is getting their internet connection for free. In fact most people I know, myself included, pay way more than they should have to. (Or rather than they would have to if there were a fair market available, eg. Utopia).


wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
said by Ahrenl:

said by wifi4milez:

Lets review, as much as people dont want to believe it Utopia is a business. Business's exist to earn money. Freeloaders take away from potential earnings. Its funny how so many people proclaim that Utopia is the "darling" ISP and how everyone else should be like them, yet they do the same shit as the other telco's/ISP's! Ahhh, the irony is thick enough to cut with a knife.
Actually here's your original post where you blame Utopia for throttling and capping. However it's not Utopia at all, but the ISP's offering service over the Utopia network. Since you can freely choose which ISP you want to use over the network, you can choose NOT to use those with caps and throttling restrictions that affect the way you use the internet.

That's why you sound ignorant, there is no irony, as there's no comparison to the "other telco's/ISP's" as when they apply restrictions to your usage, you have NO choice, except to NOT use the internet; which for many is not a choice.

I'm also not sure what you mean by freeloaders, as I don't know of anyone who is getting their internet connection for free. In fact most people I know, myself included, pay way more than they should have to. (Or rather than they would have to if there were a fair market available, eg. Utopia).
Its clear that you STILL dont get it. I never "blamed" Utopia for doing anything. I simply stated that Utopia is a business, and that a business will do whatever it takes to stay viable in the market. While Utopia themselves might not have been doing the throttling, capping, etc. that is at issue here, I can guarantee you that they would if it became necessary to support their business model. Get with the times pal.
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Ahrenl

join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
said by wifi4milez:

Its clear that you STILL dont get it. I never "blamed" Utopia for doing anything. I simply stated that Utopia is a business, and that a business will do whatever it takes to stay viable in the market. While Utopia themselves might not have been doing the throttling, capping, etc. that is at issue here, I can guarantee you that they would if it became necessary to support their business model. Get with the times pal.
You're right I still don't get what you're talking about. Utopia is a municipal non-profit organization. They don't charge for service. They don't provide service. They charge a flat rate to ISP's (by flat I mean, the same for each ISP), to use the infrastructure. Not to mention, to stay viable in the market, one usually does not INCREASE their price. Price increases are usually due to market inefficiencies lending one of the bargaining players more power over the other. Utopia won't throttle or cap because THEY ARE NOT A SERVICE PROVIDER.

You're arguments would be considered if they were based in reality.


wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
Its almost as if I am talking to a wall! Nothing seems to get through to you.....

said by Ahrenl:

They don't charge for service. They don't provide service
Thats interesting. So I suppose the providers that re-sell Utopia service are getting it for free? If thats the case then please sign me up to be a Utopia re-seller! Free money, cant be beat!!

said by Ahrenl:

Not to mention, to stay viable in the market, one usually does not INCREASE their price.
Where do you come up with this crap? Who ever said anything about increasing prices??

said by Ahrenl:

Utopia won't throttle or cap because THEY ARE NOT A SERVICE PROVIDER.
For the answer to this one, lets refer back to my previous quote once again.
said by wifi4milez:

They will ALL do whatever it takes to maximize profit while minimizing customer churn.

If Utopia needs to do something in order to not LOSE money they will, trust me.
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Ahrenl

join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
said by wifi4milez:

Its almost as if I am talking to a wall! Nothing seems to get through to you.....

said by Ahrenl:

They don't charge for service. They don't provide service
Thats interesting. So I suppose the providers that re-sell Utopia service are getting it for free? If thats the case then please sign me up to be a Utopia re-seller! Free money, cant be beat!!
Read the next line in my last response. But of course, then you'd have nothing to say.
said by Ahrenl:

Not to mention, to stay viable in the market, one usually does not INCREASE their price.
Where do you come up with this crap? Who ever said anything about increasing prices??
Increasing price or decreasing service, amounts to the same thing. It's easier to blanket it all under price instead of continually mentioning every option they have.
said by Ahrenl:

Utopia won't throttle or cap because THEY ARE NOT A SERVICE PROVIDER.
For the answer to this one, lets refer back to my previous quote once again.
Well, your previous quote provided no answers, so ehhmm..

said by wifi4milez:

They will ALL do whatever it takes to maximize profit while minimizing customer churn.

If Utopia needs to do something in order to not LOSE money they will, trust me.
I don't trust you, because you don't know what you're talking about. Utopia would only lose money if they had to rebuild major portions of their infrastructure, and they purchased the improper insurance. Or some new technology, not yet invented, appears to replace fiber optics. The ISP's who pay to access the infrastructure are the ones who determine service, and pay bandwidth costs.


God
THE Dslr Troll
Premium
join:2002-07-01
Colorado Springs, CO
reply to chemaupr
said by chemaupr:

100 gigs is more than ANY Residential ISP caps TODAY for the price and speed.
it is more than enough for most people, but you can use more than this if you really try
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