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Keithb

join:2003-09-16
US

Suspending Cat 5 ?

We are planning an install at a factory where their office has no LOS to our tower. They are roughly 3.5 miles out. They have their factory (metal building) approx. 20' from their office. My plans were to use 2 mast stand-offs (3") and mount an 1-1/2" pipe to the metal building to the purlins and raise the pipe approximately 6-8 above the metal building.

We face 2 issues, one of course is the signal over the metal building, and two is how to suspend the cable and attach on each ends?

How do you guys do it? Do you use any sort of support/tension wire? Or use some sort of grip at each end? I hate to put too much tension on the Cat5 itself, so I was planning to use lower-end guy-wire strung across with the Cat 5 looped around it or tie-wrapped to it?

Is that a bad practice? Or any other better solutions?


inova

join:2006-05-03
Macnutt, SK

That is what we did in the mining business. We called it a messenger cable and the hung everything from it, phone, power, vent tubing, etc. It worked very nicely. Tie-wraps are probably a good way to go.


SipSizzurp
Fo' Shizzle
Premium
join:2005-12-28
Houston, TX
kudos:4
reply to Keithb

Suspension wire will work fine. Make your tie wraps out of metal galvanized wire. Don't bother with the plastic zip ties.



John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:8
reply to Keithb

Keep in mind that the two buildings might be fed from separate power services...and that can result in issues.

Case-in-point:

I did some work for a company. They expanded into the building next to them, but the building had a different power service. They ran cable from one building to the other, much in the same way you are suggesting. They were feeding data from the design office in one building to the CNC milling machines located in the other. They kept getting errors and generally poor performance. It sometimes took many attempts to get the program to load. The system worked flawlessly when it was in the original building.

I measured the voltage difference between the two building...it was 7 volts.

I installed an opto-isolator so there was no "copper path" between the buildings. It worked flawlessly after that.

Just something to keep in the back of your mind...

BTW...one might be tempted to hook a "ground wire" between the building to bond them together. This might cause problems...and is best left to a professional electrician. There are a number of issues to consider.
--
A is A


LLigetfa

join:2006-05-15
Fort Frances, ON
kudos:1
reply to SipSizzurp

CAT 5 cable must never be tensioned, always tied to a messenger. I hate seeing CAT5 arial, preferring burial instead or fibre. I have miles of fibre both arial and buried.

If you ever run CAT5 outdoors, make sure it is exterior grade UV resistant gel-filled and make sure your tie wraps are also UV resistant.


Chele

join:2003-07-23
kudos:1
reply to Keithb

We have done 60'+ suspended cable runs. We loosely wrapped the Cat5(outdoor grade) around the messenger cable(we used SS wire) and then secure it with outdoor grade plastic tie-wraps every 5' or so. The Cat5 has no tension on it whatsoever. Two years later and still looks good. BTW, this is by the coast(salt air).



gmcintire
Graham
Premium
join:2005-08-09
Blue Ridge, TX
reply to Keithb

At my house I have an aerial cat5 run with just "outdoor rated" (for short runs) from home depot strung about 60' with the middle resting in a tree. It's been up for almost 2 years now without any issues, although I sure wouldn't do it at a customer's site

More on the professional grade, we have a few miles of fiber run through the city for my day job. It's just 4-pair fiber cable tied to a 3/8" steel messenger cable every few inches. The only problems we've had with it is when someone decides to drive an over-sized building under it and snip both cables...


slipstream1
Premium
join:2005-11-15
Jacksonville, TX
reply to Keithb

What you are planning for supporting the Cat5 will work just fine.


joshg409

join:2005-05-03
Ottumwa, IA
reply to Keithb

We take the outdoor cat5 and wrap it around the SS guy wire. Mybe one turn per foot or so. Then the SS guy wire is attached to the structure with eyes on the turnbuckles. The cat5 is then dropped to the structure entrance. We mounted a TR5a to the top of a soccer field light pole then ran the cable 70' to the building. We were going to trench the cable but there was a 10' rise in elvevation to get back to the building from the pole and the power from the lighting system ran accross the path. There is no tesion on the cat5 and it hangs at its lowest point 20' off the ground. I think you can get arial cat5 with a wire attached along the cat5 sheath for such installs. No one had arial cable available and we had the local FD Snorkel Truck take us up for free that day so we improvised.


Keithb

join:2003-09-16
US
reply to Keithb

At the office end, I plan to use what we call a house-knob in the industry. It's more or less a lag-screw with insulator on the end. We use it for attaching service wires via nuetral and dead-end wrap. It will be insulated from building to building. Not sure if that's good or bad. lol

We provide the power to the facility and are aware of differences of potential, etc. and it is a good thing to consider for sure. Thanks for the reminder.

On anything outdoor, we use UV-rated Cat5 cable that is indeed gel filled. In the electric industry most of our line-wire that is direct burial has a yellow stripe. Is this not common on communications cabling?


Hahausuck
Premium
join:2003-12-14
kudos:2
reply to Keithb

I have not seen cat5 burial cable with any form of colored marker. Usually its flooded if it is burial type.

I personally would use fiber, for the reasons that John described. You can buy ethernet to fiber units from Blackbox for a decent price. Suspend this using a messenger wire and wrap with stainless cable, just as the others have stated.

You might look into armored cat5 cable, as the armoring will provide extra strength, and the stuff is usually flooded as well. You can use the armor to provide a solid ground on each end as well. Very similar to burial cable that the Bells use.
--
Using a non-ports-system OS is like masturbating with a cheese grater


inova

join:2006-05-03
Macnutt, SK

I have been reading about gel-filled cat5 in several posts here. What is its purpose and/or advantage? It sounds messy and a pain to work with.

The stainless steel wrap wire sounds good. I recall this as referred to as 'a real professional job' in the mining business. It looked good but I don't know if it was any more functional than tie-wraps.



John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:8
reply to Hahausuck

said by Hahausuck:

You might look into armored cat5 cable, as the armoring will provide extra strength, and the stuff is usually flooded as well. You can use the armor to provide a solid ground on each end as well. Very similar to burial cable that the Bells use.
Using standard or even gel-filled cables suspended with a messenger wrap can result in wear of the jacket and allow water to penetrate the cable.

Cables intended for use with messengers have seriously tough jackets...for this very reason.
--
A is A

Keithb

join:2003-09-16
US
reply to Keithb

What if I just use a sheilded pair with static wire and use the static wire for the strain? lol

I think we'll try just using the suspended guy wire for now and see how that works out.

I might use sheilded Cat 5 and ground that on the metal building side so if it takes a charge it would try to dissipate on that end.


Hahausuck
Premium
join:2003-12-14
kudos:2
reply to John Galt

said by John Galt:

Using standard or even gel-filled cables suspended with a messenger wrap can result in wear of the jacket and allow water to penetrate the cable.

Cables intended for use with messengers have seriously tough jackets...for this very reason.
Yeah I thought about that a little bit after I posted

If you are doing anything you need cable ment for use with a messenger. Don't skimp. Check with General Cable, or Superior/Essex as they will have what you need. You should be looking for something like "OSP" or aerial cat5.
--
Using a non-ports-system OS is like masturbating with a cheese grater

Hahausuck
Premium
join:2003-12-14
kudos:2

»www.computercablestore.com/Searc···oryID=61

looky looky
--
Using a non-ports-system OS is like masturbating with a cheese grater


Keithb

join:2003-09-16
US

1 edit

Holy Crap!! I saw the first items price and was just fixing to post that you have us confused with a hog-wild money spending company until I realized that was 100 pair. lol

Hahausuck
Premium
join:2003-12-14
kudos:2
reply to Keithb

I thought someone would think that.

I didn't directly see any aerial wire, but I think it is in there somewhere IIRC.

Like I said, check with GC. You might need to contact Graybar for the stuff. Perhaps if Nunya reads this, maybe he can shine some light on the subject.....I will see if I can rattle his chain....
--
Using a non-ports-system OS is like masturbating with a cheese grater



nunya
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
Reviews:
·Charter
·voip.ms
·surpasshosting
reply to Keithb

I've done a few hundred of these. My first choice would be messengered multi-mode fiber with an ethernet converter on each end (unless you have direct SC/ST connections available).
After that, I would use messengered cat5 (Graybar or any decent electrical supply house). Next choice, messengered cat3 (readily available) which will still run 10 Mbps.
The gist of it is, overhead cables aren't hard to come by, and will work much better in the long run.

Tie-wrapping cat5, etc... is just trouble waiting to happen.

Thought...Can you bury a conduit betwixt the two buildings?
--
And though my lack of education hasn't hurt me none -
I can read the writing on the wall...


joshg409

join:2005-05-03
Ottumwa, IA
reply to Keithb

We couldn't do fiber as we needed POE. If you use fiber transcievers they will need to be powered at both ends to feed the laser. Then you need an enclosure and power up the pole etc..


SipSizzurp
Fo' Shizzle
Premium
join:2005-12-28
Houston, TX
kudos:4
reply to nunya

This being a wireless sort of world, and such a short distance, why not drop in a pair of good quality ap radios in bridge mode ? Less trouble, less expense than over-kill cable, more convenient and easier to install. What is the fixation with the wires anyway, unless you are looking for lan to lan connectivity ? You will also solve the voltage differential problem real quick with radios.


Keithb

join:2003-09-16
US
reply to Keithb

That would require 3 radios eh? Plus powering up each radio individually on each end of the wireless bridge.

I should have mentioned, the entire cable run will be less than 40' or so. 20' or so overhead, 15' in the building and 5' up the mast. I hate to spend more than a CPE, 50' cable, etc. due to the simplicity of the install.