Note to the DCS candidates in Team Starfire http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r16652138 en Wed, 02 Dec 2009 06:50:06 EDT Wed, 02 Dec 2009 06:50:06 EDT Re: Note to the DCS candidates http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16653833 HFB1217 : The ideas and basic premise are sound and reasonable it may be hard to implement but should be put forward and discussed by DCS members and have some form of news dissemination done if for no other reason than to appease the members who want it.

I think it should be just like the local board of selectmen a town might have after all the DCS Reps are our selectmen. Town boards have both public and closed sessions with the only the results being given from the closed sessions and the general topic discussion should be open to view. This may also give understanding for the reasoning or need for having a closed session.
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****aka The WIZARD **** A Founding member Seti BBR Team Starfire****]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16653833 Sun, 06 Aug 2006 12:23:12 EDT Re: Note to the DCS candidates http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16653725 FLea973 : Paul - as it was said before, you are welcome to post here. An outside opinion is nice to have - though things as they are , yours doesn't quite qualify as "outside" :)

I remember the discussions and still agree with the unified presence for BOINC. BBR through the DCS does not. Hence my split loyalties - I crunch SETI for BBR, but all other BOINC projects I crunch for TSWB.

Our reps in the past may have tried to let us know what was going on in the DCS, but because of the rules they had to be very circuitous how they went about that. I think the majority of the team (there has been no poll and they are silent) would like at least a summary of the discussions. I remember the threads you cited, but I don't remember any mention that the conclusions would impact the team or how.

I apologize to the poster but I can't remember who, but I agree the DCS forum should be allowed to be read-only to non DCS members. There SHOULD be a private forum for them but the topic and resolutions of the discussions therin should be noted in the public read-only forum - interested parties can comment in their respective forums.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16653725 Sun, 06 Aug 2006 12:04:22 EDT Re: Note to the DCS candidates http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16653273 HFB1217 : No Paul you have supplied the information and views you have held well.

Posting them was and is a fair and reasonable thing to do since much has been made of the perceived issues and little is known of your group's thinking in this matter.

Many things and interpretations of the circumstances changed over time and as they became more pressing for many of us we were forced to take sides and re-evaluate the views we had taken in the past.

For most it was a hard choice to pick between two groups of friends.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16653273 Sun, 06 Aug 2006 10:15:59 EDT Re: Note to the DCS candidates http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16653239 paul :
said by FLea973 See Profile :

(snip)From what I have seen, read and understand so far, our "representatives" are just that... QUOTE representatives END QUOTE - they voted how they felt and not the team, under DCS rules they were UNABLE to even ask the team their feelings on an issue, to help them decide how to vote. (not saying they would have done anything different if they could) Its no wonder most of the team members are in the dark as to what happened. (snip)
I have to ask this team's pardon. I've left, and joined tswb.org with many old friends that have all had the same vision of a unified BOINC team. I feel I no longer have the right to post here on team issues. As has been said many times before, once a member, always a member (perhaps that should be re-thought, in this ever-changing DC world we've been a part of all these years), so I'd like to beg pardon of this team to post this in order to correct some common misconceptions.

Flea, we started the push for a unified BOINC team many moons ago. I see here that many people say that this wasn't a team decision. I'd like to refer back to this most recent thread, »[BOINC] Focus - What Think Ye? which was another thread by Kinguni to gauge interest in such an idea. The second part of that thread is here- »[BOINC] Focus (part 2) Also continuing here- »Message From The Founder ( Caution - Long Rambling Post!) . There was talk even earlier than that, when Kinguni first tried to gauge interest, somewhere around the holidays last year, but the grandkids are coming soon, so I'm running out of time. Perhaps later I can find them and post links.

I see in those threads the very people who expressed positive interest in the idea now feel like they were not truly represented by our DCS reps. In my view, we were doing the wishes of the majority of the team that spoke up. True enough, it was still a very small minority of the whole team.

I am the first to admit that many, many things went wrong during this push. We were aggressive in DCS for this, and alienated the medical teams. One thing stood true, all of our current and past DCS members stood firm behind our founder and leader for the past 6 years in his resolve to bring the team firmly into the BOINC arena. I've known Ron all these years, and as was mentioned by Camelot One a few weeks ago, Ron always had the team's best interest at heart. In hindsight, bringing the matter of a split with DCS with the team would have been the better choice. At the time, we were under the assumption that membership in DCS was optional. We were wrong there....

The very heart of of our split with the DCS was our desire to have a site wide unified BOINC presence. We couldn't get it, and felt strongly enough about it to leave and create our own, once an ultimatum was handed down.. Many members here feel very strongly about supporting DSLR, feel a need to stay. Make no mistake, every one I've talked to at tswb.org has those same feelings, and the transition has been very hard to do. We have felt so strongly and committed so much time into the BOINC effort, that we had no choice but to follow our resolve on the matter.

It wasn't easy. Virtually all of us who left had to do some soul searching. Myself, I lost my job as moderator of this very forum over it. It wasn't an easy thing to do.

On the topic of our sigs, someone here commented that they didn't like the idea of a group of ten people in IRC could make policy for the team. As you can see from the links from months ago, the team made the policy, we fought our tails off for it, lost, and left our home of many years over it. The suggestion of the "group of ten" sounded so ridiculous, we thought it was great to make a sig about it..... :p

On the topic of hidden agendas, I would hazard a guess conspiracy theories abound by those who have a distaste for being left out of the loop. I can assure I have been in the middle of most discussions on this matter, and if there were any hidden agendas, they certainly were not stated in our private discussions.

So in the end, the people who really wanted a unified BOINC team got it, the science is being done, we're enjoying a freedom we haven't had in many a moon, and life is good.

Again, apologies if I've overstepped my bounds here, this should be my last team issues post. Instead of causing more strife here, I'd like to invite each and every one of you to discuss or get answers on this topic on our forum in this thread-
[mod edit again: removed links to site again]

edited for clarity and additional thoughts

Paul
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Co-owner, the Group of 10

[MOD EDIT]removed Direct links to team]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16653239 Sun, 06 Aug 2006 09:58:19 EDT Re: Note to the DCS candidates http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16653021 HFB1217 : Flea:

I can understand the need to be informed and told of things relating to the team. I myself have said that we needed information and updates so as to make the DCS more user friendly for the team members. So I do agree with Wapu and others to put forth reforms and suggestion making the DCS a more open situation.

perryjay sorry you feel the need to leave.
I wish you luck and I hope you find what you need or desire in a team. Thank you for trying to stay.

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****aka The WIZARD **** A Founding member Seti BBR Team Starfire****]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16653021 Sun, 06 Aug 2006 08:22:40 EDT Re: Note to the DCS candidates http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16652876 wapu : I have been pretty much a lurker during this brouhaha, but I got a feeling long ago when we got a new DCS rep that he would be a trouble maker. When he first took the job he made postings about how things would get shook up. His demeanor seemed confrontational and this whole mess didn't really surprise me.

That being said, I agree that the topics of the DCS need to be known to the members. If there is major voting of issues, then the votes need to be made public. Ideally, the forum of the DCS would be made publicly readable, but only the reps could post. But there is also a need for some information to not be readily available to the general public so I understand the current setup. That is why we need reps who we trust and who are in touch with the whole team and not just a select 10 or so.

Nobody would deny that things could have been handled better, but what we need to do is learn from this and make ourselves better as team because of it. We may feel we were let down by our elected rep, but we also let him down by not clearly defining what we expected from him.

As Insuw said before, more communication could have helped. I agree. rather than just talk about it, I propose that we require a weekly update from the rep that we elect. The prevailing opinions seem to be that HFB1217 should be our elected rep. I have no problem with that, but I would like to see a structured set of guidelines that we as team expect from him. Similar to our birthday threads or new member threads, lets get a commitment to weekly DCS update threads. I do not know when or if the DCS meets officially, but I see nothing wrong with requiring an update within 48 hours of a meeting. This lets him know what we expect and it will help keep us informed. We can't be a part of what we don't know about.
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When a friend asks me to choose between friends, I will always choose the friend that didn't ask me to choose.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16652876 Sun, 06 Aug 2006 07:18:10 EDT Re: Note to the DCS candidates http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16652684 perryjay : Thank you Hank. You've madeup my mind for me.

I'm Sorry Justin, I can't stand any more of this. I hold no grudge against this site but I can't remain and watch a team I supported for close to five years destroy itself. I wish you all the best but I have to say goodbye.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16652684 Sun, 06 Aug 2006 04:04:43 EDT Re: Note to the DCS candidates http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16652662 HFB1217 : The big debate and issues were over a long period of time. They came to a head when they withdrew from the DCS and tried to take the team out also.
The References to the "Group of Ten" became a signature of the members who left the Organization and were in support of the undisclosed issues. They were added to Xaak's, Ron's and m00kie's signatures after the withdrawal as a sign of unity and group identity for their cause or at least it was the impression they made of it. Some others who were to leave and in support of the withdrawal also included it in their postings as well.

Your questions of why and what happened to cause the problems might be better answered if you asked them for a candid reply.
For I and most of us are just as left out of it as you were.
I have a few personal opinions and impression of what transpired but to voice them would be wrong and baseless for I have only a fact or two and nothing concrete to justify posting about most of their causes or issues.

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****aka The WIZARD **** A Founding member Seti BBR Team Starfire****]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16652662 Sun, 06 Aug 2006 03:46:14 EDT Re: Note to the DCS candidates http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16652623 FLea973 :
said by HFB1217 See Profile :

They started a big debate and confrontation then they withdrew to a period of complete silence and non-comment.

Then all of a sudden they up and left without warning or so much as a By Your Leave.
That is one of the problems - what did they start? what was the confrontation? Because the DCS is secret, They could say there was a guy on the grassy knoll.. but we'd never see what they took to get that opinion.

Even though the lines have been drawn and most of the folks have sorted themselves out, the rest of us (and I speak only for myself but hope others feel the same) want to know what brought us here.

Any thread opened onthe why/how should only be redacted for names but should otherwise lay it all out.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16652623 Sun, 06 Aug 2006 03:18:56 EDT Re: Note to the DCS candidates http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16652576 perryjay : Hank, It was the group of ten. And that title was given to those of us that happened to be active in the TEAM STARFIRE IRC channel at the time by Another rep. I was one of them. I added that as my sig because I thought it was a ludicrous statement at the time. I removed that sig because I saw the troubles brewing but now I'm starting to get second thoughts.

I had no idea that things were as bad as they had become and I was in complete shock when the split happened. There wss noo indication in the IRC channel that things had gotten so far. The Members that left were true to there word to the DCS that they did not reveal anything about what was said there.!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16652576 Sun, 06 Aug 2006 02:57:00 EDT Re: Note to the DCS candidates http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16652501 HFB1217 :
Hell no one knew of the plan to leave or the idea to force the issues except the by their own title the Gang "Group of Ten" and some of them had decided well in advance to perpetrate this action.
They started a big debate and confrontation then they withdrew to a period of complete silence and non-comment.

Then all of a sudden they up and left without warning or so much as a By Your Leave.

EDITED
My mistake in the Title sorry perryjay thanks for correcting me.
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****aka The WIZARD **** A Founding member Seti BBR Team Starfire****]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16652501 Sun, 06 Aug 2006 02:25:31 EDT Re: Note to the DCS candidates http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16652465 FLea973 : Agree with Perry - Hell by the time we heard anything, the ultimatum had already been made... the lines drawn.. those of us active but not in the cabal were confused and the vast majority of the team was happily crunching away blissfully unaware of what was happening (sadly $10 says 80% of those associated with this team STILL have no idea.. ce la vie)

(Note: "Cabal" was chosen as a literary convenience not as a negative connotation term)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16652465 Sun, 06 Aug 2006 02:13:07 EDT Re: Note to the DCS candidates http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16652444 HFB1217 :
said by FLea973 See Profile :

HFB - I have been keeping up...I tend to post and respond on the lighter stuff..it takes a lot for me to boil over on a topic like this and actually post............if someone has already expressed it.. why bother)
..........we were kinda blind-sided by Kingumi's et. al. resignation - As a team we should NEVER be blindsided by our own reps.

Just asking no criticism intended or meant.
I just wanted to know what and where you were coming from and if the postings did or did not give you any answers to the problems at hand.

Your opinions and feelings may have been expressed in others postings but your comments or expressing similar opinions are necessary other wise how would it be known that others hold the same views or that it isn't just one or a few members who have concerns over the same issues.

As to the Reps Blind siding you that was a piss poor way to conduct business.
It was also not proper to use the team as an excuse to promote personal agendas.

perryjay:

There was more going on than just team issues not being told to the members and it was wrong to do so.
Also it was not a case of what to include or not.
It was a total lack of communication and not wanting to reveal anything or of the plans being made to force an issue and then leaving.

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****aka The WIZARD **** A Founding member Seti BBR Team Starfire****]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16652444 Sun, 06 Aug 2006 02:06:34 EDT Re: Note to the DCS candidates http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16652406 perryjay : But the problem was the reps didn't know how much they could put into that "general question" so that we could know what the hell they were talking about.

With a fight as big as what caused this riff things should have been brought to the attention of the team long before it got this far out of hand or the site management should have stepped in and said enough is enough.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16652406 Sun, 06 Aug 2006 01:55:22 EDT Re: Note to the DCS candidates http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16652396 Camelot One : Flea973, I would ask that you voice your opinion, even if someone else already has. My biggest gripe right now is that we have gone from the uproar caused by a small group making decisions without asking input, to an even smaller group willing to GIVE input.

The wishes of just 10 people should not be what guides the team, but right now that is about all we are hearing from.
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AMD X2 4800+ @2700Mhz/ MSI K8N Neo 4 Platinum SLI/ 4x 1024Mb Corsair XMS PC4000/ WD 74Gb Raptor/ PNY 7800GTs SLI/ Antec 550 True Control/ Custom water cooler]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16652396 Sun, 06 Aug 2006 01:52:39 EDT Re: Note to the DCS candidates http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16652372 BBR_InsUW : Let me correct one Item, while the rules as started did require that nothing was to be taken from the DCExec and leter the DCS, That never prevented any rep from using general questions and statements to solicit information.

Everyone of your reps failed in this matter, including myself
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[BBR]Clan Leader
TWL Admin
AA BETA TESTER ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16652372 Sun, 06 Aug 2006 01:45:50 EDT Re: Note to the DCS candidates http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16652336 FLea973 : HFB - I have been keeping up...I tend to post and respond on the lighter stuff..it takes a lot for me to boil over on a topic like this and actually post... but even if I don't post on the serious stuff it doesn't mean that I am not reading it and following it intensely (not to say that I don't have an opinion - just that if someone has already expressed it.. why bother)

Needless to say the recent crap that led to the schism was preventable if the DCS topics (not actual verbatim discussions) were open to the teams. Not only would the teams see the issues, but the reps would REALLY know how their teams felt - and folks would be able to see what the OTHER teams thought. Instead we were kinda blind-sided by Kingumi's et. al. resignation - As a team we should NEVER be blindsided by our own reps.

The United Nations may not work as it was designed... but at least their members inform and vote the way their governments want and not the way the reps want.

ps: re:UN - don't knock my rose colored glasses off... I have a hard enough time NOT referring to it as the League of Nations - large, scarry but completely impotent.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16652336 Sun, 06 Aug 2006 01:34:35 EDT Re: Note to the DCS candidates http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16652200 HFB1217 : I hope you been reading the postings and comments about keeping the teams and members informed. Also it's being secretive as causing problems.

I understand your concerns and Think that it is need for our members to be active participants and speak out when something is an issue that needs to be addressed and corrected.
Continuing to express your opinions as they give the current and future Mods and Reps as well as the others on the team information and understanding.

Also keep in mind that it takes time and compromise to initiate changes.
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****aka The WIZARD **** A Founding member Seti BBR Team Starfire****]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16652200 Sun, 06 Aug 2006 00:58:22 EDT Re: Note to the DCS candidates http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16652154 perryjay : AMEN!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16652154 Sun, 06 Aug 2006 00:45:13 EDT Note to the DCS candidates http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16652138 FLea973 : Good luck to you all.

I acknowledge that there is a reason for privacy/anonymity in voting, however, the issues should not be. The teams should all be informed of what is going on that affects them, and the teams should be able to provide input to the representative.

From what I have seen, read and understand so far, our "representatives" are just that... QUOTE representatives END QUOTE - they voted how they felt and not the team, under DCS rules they were UNABLE to even ask the team their feelings on an issue, to help them decide how to vote. (not saying they would have done anything different if they could) Its no wonder most of the team members are in the dark as to what happened.

DCS discussions should be open for viewing. DCS voting should be closed - EXCEPT for the rep's team - after all, the rep needs to be accountable to the team or else what good is having reps?

This "he said, but I can't mention it because it was in a private forum" shit HAS to stop.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16652138 Sun, 06 Aug 2006 00:41:18 EDT