 JTRockvilleData HoPremium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
 ·Verizon FiOS
| reply to meb
Re: Verizon Goes to Court to bring FIOS TV to Mont County MD said by meb:said by PaulGo:...Verizon only wants to install it in profitable areas excluding many county residences that are either in areas which less than x number of houses per square mile or that they deem not profitable. To me this is not a level playing field since Comcast has under a county agreement wired these areas. Where has Verizon stated or implied it wants to install FiOS selectively except for density? Comcast has similar density requirements. ... If I read this correctly, VZ just agreed to upgrade their entire footprint in the state of NJ within 6 years, regardless of density.
»www.njleg.state.nj.us/2006/Bills···4_I1.HTM
So why is VZ putting up such a fuss in MC about density? Why not agree to upgrade the entire footprint, like they did in NJ? |
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| quote:
So why is VZ putting up such a fuss in MC about density? Why not agree to upgrade the entire footprint, like they did in NJ?
Could it be the population of Nj. is a lot more than the entire state of Md.? |
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BarneyBadAssBadasses Fight For FreedomPremium
join:2004-05-07
00001
2 edits | said by I wish I knew who I :
Could it be the population of Nj. is a lot more than the entire state of Md.?
Nice try;
State Population Square Miles
New Jersey 8143412 7419
Maryland 5171634 9775
=========================================
So there are 2971578 more people in Nj than Md but Md has 2356 more square miles than Nj... so perhaps its not the population but the additional miles in Md...
No.. I'm not talking about MoCo... but just gross population data...
For additional information try this:
»quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/24000.html
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---Barney |
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JTRockvilleData HoPremium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| reply to I wish I knew who I
I find it hard to believe that every single area in VZ's footprint in NJ is densely populated.
But the areas VZ has refused to commit to upgrading in MCMD are pretty populated. So I'm still left wondering why VZ is willing to commit to upgrading their entire footprint in NJ, but not in MCMD? |
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JTRockvilleData HoPremium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
1 edit | reply to BarneyBadAss
Don't you think Montgomery County MD is much more densely populated than, say, Frederick County MD? I think the areas VZ is declining to commit to are probably some of the most densely populated in the state.
Does VZ's footprint in NJ only cover densely populated areas? |
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BarneyBadAssBadasses Fight For FreedomPremium
join:2004-05-07
00001 | JT,
I can "presume" your comments to be correct... but without some research to back it up I dunno....
I was simply responding to the anon. poster...
It does seem logical the density in Nj at a gross level appears to be greater than Md. on just the first inspection.. but that's as far as I looked...
I'll bet there's some data out there that can address this "mo betta" than I did.... like I said in the initial post.. its just "gross" data...
So on a gross level it seems more reasonable (at least to me) that Vz. would likely be more willing to do the entire state ... just look at the #'s in my prior post..
It should be obvious.... 
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---Barney |
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JTRockvilleData HoPremium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| I don't think it's obvious. Without digging further, I'd presume the "gross" statewide numbers are misleading, particularly without knowing what parts of NJ Verizon serves, and considering that VZ's beef is not with the state of MD, just MC (probably the most densely populated part of the state). |
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BarneyBadAssBadasses Fight For FreedomPremium
join:2004-05-07
00001
1 edit | JT,
here's a detailed description,
»www.census.gov/popest/gallery/ma···s05.html
look at the
"Download the table associated with this map .xls (24k)
data; perhaps this will say it better than I can.. but recall this was a discussion about Nj. and Vz. supposedly being prepaird to offer service to "EVERYONE" in that state... :vs: just MoCo...
(notice I didn't say anything about whether the decisions were right or wrong... )... just kind of looking at the data...
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---Barney |
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JTRockvilleData HoPremium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
2 edits | Verizon is not required to upgrade everyone in the state of NJ. From what I can tell, they're required to upgrade everyone in their current NJ footprint.
Your link doesn't show data for Verizon's current footprint in NJ, so we can't know what the density of VZ's NJ footprint is.
But the data you link to do show that NJ (the entire state) is populated less densely than Montgomery County using the July 2005 estimates, yet:
• Verizon has agreed to upgrade everyone in their NJ footprint within 6 years (at least I think that's what the NJ bill requires); and
• Verizon will not commit to upgrading everyone in MC under any circumstances. |
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BarneyBadAssBadasses Fight For FreedomPremium
join:2004-05-07
00001 | JT,
Fair comments all;
Certainly it would be really nice if we had more data from Vz. so more analysis could be performed... but.. I doubt we'll be seeing any of that data unless some nice person from inside Vz. who has access to it would share it 
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---Barney |
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JohnAPremium
join:2003-09-16
Pittsburgh, PA | reply to JTRockville
said by JTRockville:If I read this correctly, VZ just agreed to upgrade their entire footprint in the state of NJ within 6 years, regardless of density. » www.njleg.state.nj.us/2006/Bills···4_I1.HTMSo why is VZ putting up such a fuss in MC about density? Why not agree to upgrade the entire footprint, like they did in NJ? You're off on a tangent, JT. These talks hung on primary issues. They probably never got to density, other than initial proposals. This is one of the straws MC grasped to try and make themselves look better.
The areas you're ranting about are not done. They have to be included in the future build side. If I had to deal with Rockville I'd want ten years too. Might take 7 years of no activity in Rockville, to get reasonable ROW rates out of them. |
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Liz
join:2000-06-24
Potomac, MD | reply to JTRockville
said by JTRockville: ... • Verizon will not commit to upgrading everyone in MC under any circumstances. What do you base that comment on?
I understood fiber is lower maintenance and Verizon intends to convert their entire system eventually. Verizon has over 100 video agreements so far. How many does Montgomery County have? I maintain an open mind but the numbers don't make my county look very good, and ongoing Comcast performance make them look very bad. |
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JTRockvilleData HoPremium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| reply to JohnA
I'm just pointing out differences in what Verizon's willing to do in other jurisdictions vs what they're willing to agree to in MC. Why do you call that a rant? I don't even have any skin in this game, since I'm not likely to see the light until I move (which will be probably be never). As far as I can tell, Verizon refused to agree to upgrade the entire county. If Verizon has disputed Romer's claim about that, I'd love to see a link.
Has Verizon's entire footprint in NJ already been upgraded? If not, then I'm still left wondering why Verizon would agree to cover (presumably) less dense areas in NJ, but put up a stink about denser areas in MC.
If VZ has issues with Rockville's ROW fees (they'd be fools not to), they ought to have filed suit against Rockville, rather than try to exlude Rockville from the franchise agreement. Rockville's fees have been a known issue for years now, and it seems Verizon would have an easy time making a case for their unreasonableness. So if VZ's refusal to upgrade Rockville is really a fee dispute, it's an odd choice of venue.
Rockville's fees aside... what explains Verizon's unwillingness to cover the other areas they're unwilling to commit to in MC? It wouldn't surprise me if they all had unreasonable fees too, but I have no evidence to hang that claim on.
Do you think Verizon would simply prefer to negotiation smaller footprints in MD? |
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JTRockvilleData HoPremium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
1 edit | reply to Liz
said by Liz:said by JTRockville: ... • Verizon will not commit to upgrading everyone in MC under any circumstances. What do you base that comment on? I understood fiber is lower maintenance and Verizon intends to convert their entire system eventually. Verizon has over 100 video agreements so far. How many does Montgomery County have? I maintain an open mind but the numbers don't make my county look very good, and ongoing Comcast performance make them look very bad. My comments are based on Romer's letter in this Gazette article:
... snip ...
Under Verizon’s anti-consumer approach, significant portions of the county would be excluded from the Verizon’s services without any firm indication when those communities would receive cable service. For example, Rockville, Takoma Park, Chevy Chase, Gaithersburg and parts of Bethesda and Silver Spring would not be included.
... snip ...
-Bruce Romer
»www.gazette.net/stories/071906/m···39.shtml
If VZ committed to upgrading their entire footprint in NJ within 6 years, why are they balking at a committment to upgrading their footprint here?
Montgomery county has awarded 2 video franchises, which is double what the vast majority of country has awarded.
Liz  , would you be happy if your legislators overlooked your interests by allowing VZ to leave your neighborhood unserved? Despite the fact that VZ has made such a committment everywhere else?
I know I won't be happy if such a franchise is awarded. And I'd give unlimited odds towards the chances of VZ trying to block a muni effort, should such an effort surface in areas where VZ won't commit. |
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JohnAPremium
join:2003-09-16
Pittsburgh, PA | said by JTRockville:If VZ committed to upgrading their entire footprint in NJ within 6 years, why are they balking at a committment to upgrading their footprint here? One more time. It's extremely unlikely that this was ever discussed. Initial proposals from each side is probably all that was ever seen or heard.
There were much bigger fish to fry than density when they did talk, and those are being litigated. Density means nothing to Verizon. Half of Allegheny County is done, and there have been no incomplete CO builds here. When they build it, they build it all. What do density clauses mean if they build out entire COs? You can't compare MC to NJ. They got what they wanted in NJ. They're going to get it in Pa too. How would you deal with MC, if everyone else deals, and they sit there insisting they're right, or they're just too busy getting elected to take care of the peoples' business. |
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Liz
join:2000-06-24
Potomac, MD | reply to JTRockville
said by JTRockville:My comments are based on Romer's letter in this Gazette article: ... snip ... Under Verizon’s anti-consumer approach, significant portions of the county would be excluded from the Verizon’s services without any firm indication when those communities would receive cable service. For example, Rockville, Takoma Park, Chevy Chase, Gaithersburg and parts of Bethesda and Silver Spring would not be included.... snip ... -Bruce Romer » www.gazette.net/stories/071906/m···39.shtmlIf VZ committed to upgrading their entire footprint in NJ within 6 years, why are they balking at a committment to upgrading their footprint here? Montgomery county has awarded 2 video franchises, which is double what the vast majority of country has awarded. Liz , would you be happy if your legislators overlooked your interests by allowing VZ to leave your neighborhood unserved? Despite the fact that VZ has made such a committment everywhere else? I know I won't be happy if such a franchise is awarded. And I'd give unlimited odds towards the chances of VZ trying to block a muni effort, should such an effort surface in areas where VZ won't commit. His comment is "spin." What does he say under oath.
I never felt like the county did a good job with the video franchise or ever had my best interest as even a consideration. They just didn't want the complaint statistics too high. It is very easy for me to doubt county spokesmen based on my observations. That doesn't mean I automatically trust Verizon, but I view this current situation as a major failure of our county. Verizon is ready to serve my neighborhood and home, but the county is the barrier. The county failed to get Comcast to serve you at a level they serve my neighborhood. Why do you take their side before the facts are in. I look forward to getting the true story under oath. I'm willing to place a sizable wager against our elected officials and paid staff. How do you explain so many signed Verizon franchises and only one law suit?  |
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 PaulGo
join:2005-01-29
Gaithersburg, MD | So why did Verizon withdraw from New Hampshire? Did they face the same problems as Montgomery County or perhaps they do not have the resources to expand FiOS as quickly as they want. I still think they are pursuing their own political agenda, and are trying to pressure the states and municipalities into doing things their way. Verizon may have over extended itself in the FiOS build-out and a convenient way of slowing it down is doing the "compliant" states / counties first. |
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JTRockvilleData HoPremium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| reply to Liz
said by Liz:How do you explain so many signed Verizon franchises and only one law suit? VZ wants to change federal law. They only need one suit to do it. |
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JTRockvilleData HoPremium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| reply to JohnA
I don't think this is the density issue either - in fact, I gave statistics that illustrate density couldn't be the basis for exclusion (the areas Verizon won't commit to are quite dense).
It is more likely, as you say, a CO issue. For whatever reason (it doesn't appear to be based on density - or income either, for that matter), Verizon does not want to upgrade all the COs in MC. At a minimum, that's the stance they wanted to bargain from. Universal coverage is a standard provision. If Verizon's proposal never got beyond that, I'd say they are just as unwilling to bend as MC cable office. |
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