False accusations don't always work in Security

Re: False accusations don't always work

Wed, 16 Aug 2006 21:03:09 EDT

anon : An insightful article on internet posting anonymity and its benefits.

»www.russellbeattie.com/notebook/1008640.html

Re: False accusations don't always work

Wed, 16 Aug 2006 21:00:30 EDT

dolphins :

said by GadgetsRme :

Are you saying you don't want to be the only one making the sound of air rushing through a blow hole? I personally always want a little noise going to cover the rattle when I shake my old head (brain shrinkage dontcha' know!). :D

It's more the old adage when someone says, "ok...who's the idiot?" If you look around and don't see any idiots then it's a simple matter deduction. ;)
--
Prevent Malware

Re: False accusations don't always work

Wed, 16 Aug 2006 20:22:21 EDT

GadgetsRme :

said by dolphins :

said by antiserious :

quote:

When I walk into a room the first thing I do is look around for nitwits, if I don't see any, I quickly exit. :D

Are you saying you don't want to be the only one making the sound of air rushing through a blow hole? I personally always want a little noise going to cover the rattle when I shake my old head (brain shrinkage dontcha' know!). :D
--
Gadgets

Re: False accusations don't always work

Wed, 16 Aug 2006 19:54:33 EDT

dolphins :

said by antiserious :

quote:
we also have registered nitwits ...

When I walk into a room the first thing I do is look around for nitwits, if I don't see any, I quickly exit. :D

I thought a lil' tension relief was in order. :)
--
Prevent Malware

Re: False accusations don't always work

Wed, 16 Aug 2006 19:26:23 EDT

javaMan :

said by two_can_tango :

On the other hand, almost anyone can make an anonymous post using the name "two_can_tango".

That would seem to me to be a good argument for registering then wouldn't it?
--
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness. . . Isa. 5:20

Re: False accusations don't always work

Wed, 16 Aug 2006 19:25:00 EDT

javaMan :

said by Steve :

said by javaMan :

Additionally, if people like two_can_tango continued to post anonymously under that name they would no longer be anonymous.

Anonymous means you don't know his identity, not that you are unable to correlate multiple posts by the same person.

Precisely. Anonymous is really a misnomer within this thread's context. There are more important aspects to knowing someone than their address and phone number.
--
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness. . . Isa. 5:20

Re: False accusations don't always work

Wed, 16 Aug 2006 19:10:25 EDT

Steve :

said by javaMan :

Additionally, if people like two_can_tango continued to post anonymously under that name they would no longer be anonymous.

Anonymous means you don't know his identity, not that you are unable to correlate multiple posts by the same person.
--
Stephen J. Friedl • Unix Wizard • Microsoft Security MVP • Tustin, California USA • my web site

Re: False accusations don't always work

Wed, 16 Aug 2006 19:03:42 EDT

javaMan :

said by Wildcatboy :

. . .

As for responses you have been getting, they're related more to your behaviour than anything else. If you're called a Troll, it's because you are Trolling. And the fact that you're trying to play the victim and pretend we all hate anonymous posters, is not going to change the contents of your posts and it won't change the opinion people are going to form about you by reading them.

You haven't contributed anything. You've just derailed the thread, which is of course what Trolls do. Anonymous posters are welcome here, Trolls aren't.

. . .

Additionally, if people like two_can_tango continued to post anonymously under that name they would no longer be anonymous. As dave pointed out, everyone would eventually "know" who they are and could take the appropriate action when seeing their posts. And that would be perfectly fine. On the other hand, the troll will at some point want to change his name in order to continue to be an effective troll. But then I'm sure people like two_can_tango already understand that quite well.
--
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness. . . Isa. 5:20

Re: False accusations don't always work

Wed, 16 Aug 2006 18:15:21 EDT

NetFixer :

said by Wildcatboy :

I don't see any problem with anonymous posts. In fact I find the ability to post without registering on this site to be one of the great features of this site.

I also think this is a great service this site offers.

Someone who finds this site because they think their PC/network has been attacked/infected might be less likely to actually post what sometimes may seem like personal and/or embarrassing information if they have to first setup an account because of a concern that this may even further expose them to attack.

BTW: I appreciate you allowing me to start what was essentially a "rant" thread. Hopefully though, the explanations of how ISP and site logs are useful for something other than casual reading material for the FBI will at least be useful to some visitors.
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.
Test your firewall.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Wed, 16 Aug 2006 17:48:24 EDT

Wildcatboy : I don't see any problem with anonymous posts. In fact I find the ability to post without registering on this site to be one of the great features of this site.

As for responses you have been getting, they're related more to your behaviour than anything else. If you're called a Troll, it's because you are Trolling. And the fact that you're trying to play the victim and pretend we all hate anonymous posters, is not going to change the contents of your posts and it won't change the opinion people are going to form about you by reading them.

You haven't contributed anything. You've just derailed the thread, which is of course what Trolls do. Anonymous posters are welcome here, Trolls aren't.

What you're doing, shouldn't and won't affect others who have something intelligent to say and would like to post without registering. They will keep doing so no matter what your opinions are because they are not dumb enough to buy what you have to sell.
--
You can catch the Devil, but you can't hold him long.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Wed, 16 Aug 2006 17:22:08 EDT

NetFixer :

said by norwegian :

So, from what I gather, 20 days or so back someone went to do a scan and then ?

They then sent an abuse complaint to my ISP claiming that my web server had attacked their PC/network.

said by norwegian :

Is it the IP addresses mentioed, or were they related to the un-rego'd people hassling ?

I only publicly identified their ISP, not the specific IP address. I think the edited IP address to which you are referring was from my reply to one of the anonymous trolls to show how easy it was to trace back to the moment that he/she posted a direct link to a smiley image on my server (apparently as some sort of sophomoric prank).

said by norwegian :

What if it was someone innocent doing a check, and was infected, which caused the usage ? If it was those addresses, I guess your half way there, at least odds on they used these inbetween them and you.

I really had not previously considered that perhaps the scan request came from a compromised PC, but it could be a possible explanation, for what would seem to be a foolish scam attempt.

said by norwegian :

Is it too late to trace now, or can the ISP log back ?

The IP address is known, and their ISP would have records of who was using that IP address should I have needed to associate it with a real name and address. (the RIAA and the MPAA do it every day).

said by norwegian :

The reason I ask is I used it around that time, but as far as I know it was all legit.

Unless you were using their PC as an open proxy, the scan request came from a US based residential ISP account, so you are off the hook.

said by norwegian :

So how do we look into this ? With installations of beta, I doubt there is a log. What is the process of this ?

There is really nothing to look into. Had my ISP simply taken the word of the complainant and shutdown my account, I could have used the IP address to obtain justice and/or revenge. Just answering questions in this thread has already taken much more of my time then the original incident. ;)
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.
Test your firewall.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Wed, 16 Aug 2006 10:48:02 EDT

antiserious :

said by two_can_tango :

Replying to a comment about being anonymous is completely unacceptable. After all, what is this, some kind of discussion forum?

Humbled again. Thanks.

Heh

... replying so defensively, and assuming hostility directed towards you when none was intended, indeed when the reply wasn't even MADE to you, is a tad over-the-top (unless you're that person using yet another anonymous tag) ... it would appear you're just itching for a fight, and I'm not inclined to accommodate you ...

... but thanks for stopping by ...

--
... " how can we miss you if you won't GO AWAY ! " ...

Re: False accusations don't always work

Wed, 16 Aug 2006 10:39:17 EDT

anon : "perhaps you should consider your own behavior and the response it engendered "

Perhaps I should. Replying to a comment about being anonymous is completely unacceptable. After all, what is this, some kind of discussion forum?

Humbled again. Thanks.

Heh

Re: False accusations don't always work

Wed, 16 Aug 2006 10:29:01 EDT

antiserious :

said by two_can_tango :

"we can always handle the spurious nitwit"

Excellent assumption. Obviously we must all be nitwits if we don't register.

It's great to see the hostility peak towards people who post without registering. First NetFixer with his "there's lots that baffles you" and now with you. Bravo. You sure showed us.

... not by the fact that you don't register - I evaluate by the content of the post, or lack thereof ... I have just found a higher correlation between anonymous posters and negative/non-productive comments ... others may feel differently, as is their right ... we also have registered nitwits ...

... I'm sure nothing I say will have any effect on you, and that's fine, I didn't expect it would - but for the record I didn't consider my comments to be 'hostile', merely a response-in-kind ... but take it any way you choose ... if being accused of 'spurious nitwitticism' strikes you as a hostile act, perhaps you should consider your own behavior and the response it engendered ...

--
... " how can we miss you if you won't GO AWAY ! " ...

Re: False accusations don't always work

Wed, 16 Aug 2006 10:12:38 EDT

Steve :

said by two_can_tango :

Excellent assumption. Obviously we must all be nitwits if we don't register.

Even unregistered users figure out quickly that registered-ness is no protection against being a nitwit.

Data point: mods are always registered :-)

Re: False accusations don't always work

Wed, 16 Aug 2006 10:02:41 EDT

anon : "we can always handle the spurious nitwit"

Excellent assumption. Obviously we must all be nitwits if we don't register.

It's great to see the hostility peak towards people who post without registering. First NetFixer with his "there's lots that baffles you" and now with you. Bravo. You sure showed us.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Wed, 16 Aug 2006 09:42:30 EDT

antiserious :

said by photobucket :

Yes, even if I register. The majority of free image and file hosts are url blocked at my gateway. So is all javascript delivered from a Google Inc. domain.

... based on the content of your posts and their contribution to this forum, it's okay with me if you never register - I bet it's okay with a lot of other people as well ... and FYI, registering simply adds a measure of accountability for your words and actions, it's not likely to create it if you don't already have any ...

... it would be swell if more things were blocked at your gateway - on the way out, perhaps ... just a thought ...

... nice job, netfixer, thanks for posting ... as for originating from DSLR, well ... when you have an open-door policy anybody can just waltz in and track mud through the lobby, but that's about as far as they get ... at various times I have thought about supporting required registration, but in the end I'm glad we don't - it would eliminate too many legitimate people looking for help, and we can always handle the spurious nitwit or three, as you showed ... :D ...

--
... " how can we miss you if you won't GO AWAY ! " ...

Re: False accusations don't always work

Wed, 16 Aug 2006 09:36:52 EDT

dave :

said by two_can_tango :

The notion at this site that people who take the time to fill out a form are somehow less anonymous baffles me.

Sure, there's no connection between a registered user and any real-world entity (unless they so choose), so a registered user is still 'anonymous'.

But the difference is that a registered user has a persistent persona. People get used to posts by dave and react to him on that basis. So, from that point of view, readers might not know who dave really is, but they know what he stands for and have opinions on whether or not he's worth bothering with.

Unregistered users have no such persistent persona, or at least it doesn't look that way. Thus the appearance is that they're not willing to be responsible for what they post.

It's not much different to how one forms an opinion of someone in real life, actually.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Wed, 16 Aug 2006 08:52:31 EDT

norwegian :

So, from what I gather, 20 days or so back someone went to do a scan and then ?

Is it the IP addresses mentioed, or were they related to the un-rego'd people hassling ?

What if it was someone innocent doing a check, and was infected, which caused the usage ? If it was those addresses, I guess your half way there, at least odds on they used these inbetween them and you.

Is it too late to trace now, or can the ISP log back ?

The reason I ask is I used it around that time, but as far as I know it was all legit.

So how do we look into this ? With installations of beta, I doubt there is a log. What is the process of this ?

Re: False accusations don't always work

Wed, 16 Aug 2006 07:53:57 EDT

spy1 : Thank you. (Thank ZULU for me, too! :) ).

Re: False accusations don't always work

Wed, 16 Aug 2006 04:53:01 EDT

NetFixer :

said by spy1 :

A small question - how much time elapsed between the attempted complaint, your figuring it out and its' resolution?

Less than 90 days?

Less than two years?

Just curious. Pete

Ah, a post mission debriefing. I remember those:

07/26/2006 -- 19:24 ZULU: The user clicked on my "Test your firewall" link from a DSLR post (see the first post in this thread for details).

07/26/2006 -- 19:25 ZULU: The user requested the port scan in question.

08/14/2006 -- 13:03 ZULU: My email server received the complaint notice from Covad, I don't know whether the delay between the scan and the notice being sent to me was due to the end-user, some third party firewall analysis service, or Covad.

08/14/2006 -- 14:00 ZULU: I launched Netscape Communicator and noticed the email from Covad.

08/14/2006 -- 14:14 ZULU: I extracted the web server log information.

08/14/2006 -- 14:35 ZULU: Sent web server log extract to Covad.

08/14/2006 -- 14:40 ZULU: I brewed a pot of coffee, and fixed a small snack.

08/14/2006 -- 15:19 ZULU: I started this thread on DSLR.

--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.
Test your firewall.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Wed, 16 Aug 2006 00:41:49 EDT

EGeezer :

said by photobucket :

The majority of free image and file hosts are url blocked at my gateway. So is all javascript delivered from a Google Inc. domain.

I do my surfing at home, on my own time and on my own connection and network so I don't have such restrictions. ;)
--
This space for rent

Re: False accusations don't always work

Wed, 16 Aug 2006 00:37:28 EDT

spy1 :

said by NetFixer :

A special note to critofur :
This is why ISPs and web servers keep logs. It has nothing to do with the FBI trying to track your web surfing habits. In fact, you were not even a suspect in this sabotage attempt because I know the IP address that was used was not yours.

A small question - how much time elapsed between the attempted complaint, your figuring it out and its' resolution?

Less than 90 days?

Less than two years?

Just curious. Pete

Re: False accusations don't always work

Tue, 15 Aug 2006 23:22:22 EDT

AB :

said by NetFixer :

. . . Unfortunately my 36 hour days don't always leave me enough time to devote to that task. :D

Then it's my recommendation to cut back to 25 hour days, and only 8 day weeks. ;)

*Edit- N/M. Just answered.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Tue, 15 Aug 2006 23:18:18 EDT

NetFixer :

said by AB :

Just now hit the link, the page took awhile to load, then I got a 'server took too long to respond' message when trying the port scan. So, he's having some server probs, he's working on the site...

Yes, I am doing some web site maintenance, but I didn't think it would be causing any access problems. I think maybe I am just being /DSLR'd at moment. :D
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.
Test your firewall.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Tue, 15 Aug 2006 23:13:13 EDT

NetFixer :

said by AB :

Simple & straightforward.

Yes, I admit it, I am a minimalist. I wish I could keep my desktop, workbench, and life in general as neat and tidy. At least I have control of what is on my web sites.

said by AB :

Could use a few more nature pics, however.

Actually, I am working on it. I have thousands of digital pics that I need to put into the proper format and integrate into the website, and as many 35mm images waiting to be digitized. Unfortunately my 36 hour days don't always leave me enough time to devote to that task. :D
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.
Test your firewall.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Tue, 15 Aug 2006 23:10:46 EDT

AB :

said by hayc59 :

ArgleBargle, port scan is not working for me
let me know how it goes, I think Fixer is working on it??

I did the ping thing yesterday. Just now hit the link, the page took awhile to load, then I got a 'server took too long to respond' message when trying the port scan. So, he's having some server probs, he's working on the site, or the troll is causing him some problem. I hope that last one is not it.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Tue, 15 Aug 2006 23:04:15 EDT

hayc59 : Maybe they had a family re-union today??
:p :p

--
ãrê ¥Øu êxpêriêncêD
9/11/01 Never Forget

Re: False accusations don't always work

Tue, 15 Aug 2006 22:59:43 EDT

hayc59 : ArgleBargle, port scan is not working for me
let me know how it goes, I think Fixer is working on it??

Re: False accusations don't always work

Tue, 15 Aug 2006 22:53:27 EDT

AB : I went to the link from one of your posts, and clicked on the ping/trace, and it worked real well! Nice site you have there, NetFixer. Simple & straightforward. Could use a few more nature pics, however. Maybe I'll go back & try a port scan. I don't think I'll complain, though.
Not this time, anyway. ;) :)

Re: False accusations don't always work

Tue, 15 Aug 2006 22:20:34 EDT

NetFixer :
Well, we both fed them some troll pics, maybe that was what they were after. I have heard of stranger fetishes. ;)

--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.
Test your firewall.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Tue, 15 Aug 2006 21:33:57 EDT

hayc59 : hehehe where da trolls??
:p :p

Re: False accusations don't always work

Tue, 15 Aug 2006 10:27:00 EDT

dliw : Am glad I saw this on the front page. Have made your site a favorite.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 23:41:50 EDT

NetFixer : Well, who woulda' thunk it. A troll who collects trolls.

Here you go, have another on the house (this one uses justin 's bandwidth). :D

[att=1]
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.
Test your firewall.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 23:20:04 EDT

anon : Yes, even if I register. The majority of free image and file hosts are url blocked at my gateway. So is all javascript delivered from a Google Inc. domain.

but for you old friend
yes here ya go

Thank you kindly. Cute.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 23:08:53 EDT

EGeezer : Ouch! I was drinking beer in the left field bleachers when ...

Who was that Masked Man?

--
This space for rent

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 23:04:16 EDT

Psicop : Hi,

My name is Gerard and currently live in Taiwan. :)

Who cares whether people know my true identity or not. We all are too busy with our own lives.

I think is important registering in the forum rather than hiding as this kind of behaviour shows a genuine interest in this subject.

My 2 $

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:49:59 EDT

NetFixer :

said by controler :

X verses Y? Which is better?

I have always prefered Z myself.

Bottom of the ninth, score tied, bases loaded, two outs. Here's the windup, aaaand the pitch, a fast ball right down the center. The batter swings and *****CRACK!!!*****, It's a hard line drive right down the left field line, is fair? I think it might be.... OhNooo it dropped just outside the line! FOUL BALL!!!.

Hey, makes as much sense as the last dozen posts. :D
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.
Test your firewall.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:41:02 EDT

controler : if you remember I was ALL for no more anon posting at Wilders ;-)

I never see anything come of good when people get upset over debates either.
What I really hate is this new wave of the beginning of every new thread. X verses Y? Which is better?

con

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:20:25 EDT

Steve :

said by controler :

"It's even possible to be a trusted moderator at DSLR and have nobody here - including Justin - know your real identity."

Not so sure about this. I made the mistake of sending a phishing scam and my e-mail log was made avaliable here for the whole world to see. I never did get a message from Justin about it, only Amy. I was not too happy about that being done on a world renouned security forum.

This is a non-sequitur: whether it's possible to be an unknown mod has nothing to do with what happened to a phishing report.

Steve
--
Stephen J. Friedl • Unix Wizard • Microsoft Security MVP • Tustin, California USA • my web site

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:08:23 EDT

dadkins : Just for the record, dadkins = D. Adkins... David Adkins

Depending on your "I See People" settings, you may see that I am in Hercules, CA.

I have Comcast as my provider, and I love my VAIOs!
Not too worried about it myself.

YMMV.
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:06:57 EDT

norwegian :
At the end of the day, I understand what has been just said. If you are an online business, you cannot afford to be sly, maybe with your own desicions in a business sense.

But as a person, your words or your typing here, your comments go hand in hand with your online name.

I have no doubt if what happened to NetFixer did happen. He has seemed honest in his approach to many other questions before, I do not see this thread as any less.

If it was an unknown exploit, then even more for dragging them out. We need to improve the internet, not run around hiding in it.

That is on a commercial and personal level.

Maybe we can stop it happening to others.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:03:45 EDT

controler : "It's even possible to be a trusted moderator at DSLR and have nobody here - including Justin - know your real identity."

Not so sure about this. I made the mistake of sending a phishing scam and my e-mail log was made avaliable here for the whole world to see. I never did get a message from Justin about it, only Amy. I was not too happy about that being done on a world renouned security forum.

con

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:03:25 EDT

hayc59 : Trolls busted into NetFixers thread
plain and simple and its just a darn shame
they have nothing better to do
shame on you shame shame!!!
--
ãrê ¥Øu êxpêriêncêD
9/11/01 Never Forget

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 22:01:22 EDT

GadgetsRme : The point of being registered (for one of our anon posters) isn't that being registered gives you credibility rather the fact that others can go back and check your posting history to see if they should take you as a credible source or not. So it is you who creates your credibility by allowing others to see who you are by your actions. So whether you're helpful or disruptive, polite or rude in your posts over time as well as if you're knowledgeable or should be ignored all show in your history for all to see. I'm not ashamed to let my history show; if you are that affects how I treat you as to credibility. Like it or build a bridge and get over it.
--
Gadgets

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:59:23 EDT

boognish : I was grandfathered in and some kind person donated me the premium membership. I don't think it would be hard for Justin to figure out who I am though. I have never tried to obscure my identity.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:53:40 EDT

NetFixer :

said by norwegian :

I'm not sure how this became the arguement gentlemen, but my premium points were bought by me using a card. How else do you get there.

Steve 's point is that even though you used a form on DSLR to pay for your premium membership, the information is actually sent to a third party for processing, and DSLR never sees the users information. I have been offered that type of credit card processing by several organizations, but I prefer to know with whom I am doing business (and by screening out charges from Albania, Bulgaria, etc, I can avoid a lot of charge-backs).

EDIT: This thread seems to have suddenly taken on the characteristics of a foul ball in to the left field stands.
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.
Test your firewall.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:49:31 EDT

dadkins :

said by NetFixer :

Also, if you are a paid premium user, you must enter your real name, address, and a credit card number, so there is certainly no anonymity from the site operators.

I get Anon donated tool points all the time.
I got my Premium from Anon.

I have upgraded a couple others to Premium, and I still have 10 tool points.

I don't even have a credit card! :hmm:
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:48:55 EDT

Steve :

said by norwegian :

You Steve have only just mentioned a few. I how ever did use the method you say is not an option.

You didn't give your credit card to Justin - you did it some other way.
--
Stephen J. Friedl • Unix Wizard • Microsoft Security MVP • Tustin, California USA • my web site

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:45:30 EDT

norwegian :

said by Steve :

said by NetFixer :

Also, if you are a paid premium user, you must enter your real name, address, and a credit card number, so there is certainly no anonymity from the site operators.

A credit card number is positively not required for membership here: some premium members were grandfathered in, some got their required tool points via donation from another member, but even those who purchased tool points never gave a credit card to the site: it was done via paypal or Yahoo!, where that information is not passed back to site operators.

It's even possible to be a trusted moderator at DSLR and have nobody here - including Justin - know your real identity.

(Not making a comment on the troll)

Steve

I'm not sure how this became the arguement gentlemen, but my premium points were bought by me using a card. How else do you get there.

You Steve have only just mentioned a few. I how ever did use the method you say is not an option.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:38:51 EDT

Steve :

said by NetFixer :

Also, if you are a paid premium user, you must enter your real name, address, and a credit card number, so there is certainly no anonymity from the site operators.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:27:33 EDT

anon :

said by NetFixer :
I suppose it is possible that the user may have a firewall which automatically emails an abuse report if it detects anything it perceives as an attack.

That's a fair possibility considering the very large number of organisations that use email alerts from their IDS to warn them of hostile activity.

To have them sent directly to the ISP is self-defeating as the recipient will eventually become pissed off with the sheer quantity and start filtering them.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:27:29 EDT

NetFixer :

said by two_can_tango :

The website in your signature may have a whois entry, but that doesn't mean it's actually you...

Sorry to side-track your thread, but like I said, it's baffling to me.

It is baffling to you because you apparently don't have a clue as to how internet commerce (or probably any kind of commerce) works. It is rather hard to sell a product or service if your potential customers can't find you. I suspect that quite a few things are baffling to you.
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.
Test your firewall.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:18:19 EDT

hayc59 :

said by two_can_tango :

"why do some folks play anonymous on forums?"

And hayc59, a just as important and valid question, perhaps a nine hundred and ninety nine dollar question. Why do people think that plugging in an email address and filling out a form so that you can have "Voodoo Child" show up above a clickable blue name makes others more credible or less anonymous?

The notion at this site that people who take the time to fill out a form are somehow less anonymous baffles me.

that my friend is the little ditty thats going to keep you awake tonite!!! hehehehe Muhaaaaaaa :)
--
ãrê ¥Øu êxpêriêncêD
9/11/01 Never Forget

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:17:14 EDT

anon : Sorry, none of that removes anonymity. It just means some extra step was involved (ie. logging in). Your address, there's no verification, you could put whatever you want. Premium account, any user can "gift" any other user with it. No ID check, or credit card required. The website in your signature may have a whois entry, but that doesn't mean it's actually you. I really hope people aren't thinking they should "trust" people based on a clickable blue name. It lends nothing to identification, trustworthiness, or credibility.

Sorry to side-track your thread, but like I said, it's baffling to me.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:14:11 EDT

NetFixer :

said by photobucket :

If I were worried about it, I would block it at the server.

I'll take that as a yes and leave the obvious argument alone.

I just originally assumed that you did it on purpose as a joke.

Ding. Ding. Ding.
A joke with a point but I'll take what I can get.

If the joke is that you want people to think that you are an idiot, then I guess that you are right on track.
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.
Test your firewall.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:11:51 EDT

hayc59 :

said by photobucket :

Could you post the troll image (trollwq9.gif) as an attachment? ImageShack, PhotoBucket, etc. are blocked at the perimeter here.

ah not if you register?? but for you old friend
yes here ya go
--
ãrê ¥Øu êxpêriêncêD
9/11/01 Never Forget

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:10:03 EDT

NetFixer :

said by two_can_tango :

The notion at this site that people who take the time to fill out a form are somehow less anonymous baffles me.

I won't presume to answer for hayc59 , but in my case, my "Loc:" information is my true location. A visit to any of my web sites, and/or a whois lookup will give you more personal information about me than I suspect you would care to know. Also, if you are a paid premium user, you must enter your real name, address, and a credit card number, so there is certainly no anonymity from the site operators.
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.
Test your firewall.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:06:35 EDT

anon :

If I were worried about it, I would block it at the server.

I'll take that as a yes and leave the obvious argument alone.

I just originally assumed that you did it on purpose as a joke.

Ding. Ding. Ding.
A joke with a point but I'll take what I can get.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:05:16 EDT

anon : A registered member, who used to post in this forum tirelessly, enjoyed using a particular term. I always found it a bit petulant but see a need for its use here:

*Sigh*

Could you post the troll image (trollwq9.gif) as an attachment? ImageShack, PhotoBucket, etc. are blocked at the perimeter here.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:00:44 EDT

NetFixer :

said by PhoneyWar :

This all seems a bit dumb. Did it not occur to the idiot that they would check with you before taking any action?

:)

Hard to say, sometimes people just don't think before they open their mouths or before they press the "enter" key.

I have had cases where someone would scan a workstation at work, and then the corporate net security folks would assume an incoming port scan had occurred.

This was a residential cable user, so there was no network admin involved. In retrospect however, I suppose it is possible that the user may have a firewall which automatically emails an abuse report if it detects anything it perceives as an attack. I did not see the copy of the email that was sent to Covad, just a copy of the users firewall log extract. This would be similar to the automatic email virus reject messages that some brain dead A/V programs send out which do more to clog the internet than the virus they detected.
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.
Test your firewall.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 20:59:21 EDT

anon : "why do some folks play anonymous on forums?"

And hayc59, a just as important and valid question, perhaps a nine hundred and ninety nine dollar question. Why do people think that plugging in an email address and filling out a form so that you can have "Voodoo Child" show up above a clickable blue name makes others more credible or less anonymous?

The notion at this site that people who take the time to fill out a form are somehow less anonymous baffles me.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 20:43:14 EDT

anon : This all seems a bit dumb. Did it not occur to the idiot that they would check with you before taking any action?

:)

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 20:39:32 EDT

NetFixer :

said by photobucket :

Ah, you edited your post. So, I'm stealing your bandwidth?

If I were worried about it, I would block it at the server. I just originally assumed that you did it on purpose as a joke. It later occured to me that perhaps you didn't realize what you had done. When you spend hours every day writing and/or analyzing code, it is easy to forget that it is a foreign language to many people.
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.
Test your firewall.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 20:37:51 EDT

hayc59 : opps to late

An "Internet troll" or "Forum Troll" is a person who posts outrageous message to bait people to answer. Forum Troll delights in sowing discord on the forums. A troll is someone who inspires flaming rhetoric, someone who is purposely provoking and pulling people into flaming discussion. Flaming discussions usually end with name calling and a flame war.

--
ãrê ¥Øu êxpêriêncêD
9/11/01 Never Forget

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 20:34:43 EDT

hayc59 : photobucket, riddle me this
why do some folks play anonymous on forums?
it a thousand dollar question ;)

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 20:24:44 EDT

hayc59 : NetFixer , thats one I am gonna remember
I love it

*My humor receptors are just fine*
--
ãrê ¥Øu êxpêriêncêD
9/11/01 Never Forget

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 20:03:51 EDT

NetFixer :
FYI: <-This little fellow uses my bandwidth in case you actually didn't know.
[att=1]

24.57.54.xxx - - [14/Aug/2006:15:29:04 -0500] "GET /smiley/roflmao.gif HTTP/1.1" 301 348 "http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16575278" "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.0.6) Gecko/20060728 Firefox/1.5.0.6"
65.4.250.xxx - - [14/Aug/2006:15:32:33 -0500] "GET /smiley/roflmao.gif HTTP/1.1" 301 348 "http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16703693" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 2.0.50727)"
 
xxx.54.57.24.in-addr.arpa. 16603INPTRd57-54-xxx.home.cgocable.net.

--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.
Test your firewall.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 19:24:12 EDT

NetFixer :

said by norwegian :

Seriously though, hope they didn't do any damage.

My shields are always up. ;)

Anyway, this was a clumsy scam attack, not a network or server infrastructure attack.
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.
Test your firewall.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 19:17:57 EDT

NetFixer :

said by nickal78 :

I only hope when this guy reported you it was cause he was totally clueless and not malicous.

If it was who I think it was, it was probably mostly clueless, although you never know what may tick someone off when you make posts in a public forum (and I am guilty of occasionally intentionally ticking off a few posters whom I consider trolls).

Primarily it just really ticked me off that the DSLR Security Forum was the access link. Usually this kind of thing comes from a stranger who wandered in on an AOL, Yahoo!, or Google search link.
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.
Test your firewall.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 19:03:28 EDT

norwegian : I guess they will find out soon enough then. It's like attacking Link Logger, when he's in test mode, and then wondering why you get a knock back at the internet door saying

"Thank you for the attempt, it has duly failed, please take a "try again ticket"".

Hope you don't have too much fun chasing them:

Seriously though, hope they didn't do any damage.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 19:02:55 EDT

nickal78 : Hey Netfixer, I don't normally the time to post but I wanted to say I support you 100%. I hope this guy doesn't bother you or your provider anymore. Someone should tell him that you are actually providing a great service for free and 99.9999% of people appreciate it. I only hope when this guy reported you it was cause he was totally clueless and not malicous.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 18:41:57 EDT

NetFixer :

said by norwegian :

Gees NetFixer, you don't post your own thread very often mate. You been having fun with some script kiddie ;)

I'm not sure that you could use the term script kiddie, since it was my own scripts that were being used (been a loooong time since anyone called me a kiddie).

said by norwegian :

As for thinking he could complain to Covad, they would be ringing you if they get hardware or server probs eh.

Actually, my client list is private, but it does include several telcos.
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.
Test your firewall.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 18:26:49 EDT

norwegian : Gees NetFixer, you don't post your own thread very often mate. You been having fun with some script kiddie ;)

Take him down.

As for thinking he could complain to Covad, they would be ringing you if they get hardware or server probs eh.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 18:17:21 EDT

NetFixer :

said by photobucket :

We wouldn't want anyone to be missed :uhh:.

Actually this thread was primarily intended to be a public announcement to the jerk who tried to shutdown my network and webserver. I wasn't missing anything (not even the miniscule bandwidth you stole by using my roflmao smiley). :uhh:
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.
Test your firewall.

Re: False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:32:09 EDT

anon :

We wouldn't want anyone to be missed :uhh:.

False accusations don't always work

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 11:19:00 EDT

NetFixer : Note to the Security Forum visitor using an Adelphia connection (you know who you are, and I could make a pretty good guess) who looked at this link (Re: I got Interogated from Mid management due to ONE malware) on 26/Jul/2006:14:24:09 CDT and who proceeded to click on my post signature "Test your firewall" link in that post at 26/Jul/2006:14:24:46 CDT, followed by clicking on the port scan link on my web site at 26/Jul/2006:14:25:51 CDT.

Your pathetic attempt to get my ISP to take my internet service and web server offline by complaining to their abuse department that I was port scanning your network failed miserably.

Covad is aware of my portscan service, so all you accomplished was to waste a few minutes of the Covad tech's time and mine for me to confirm from my web server log who you were and what you did. If you try it again, I suspect that it will be Covad who contacts your ISP with an abuse complaint.

A special note to critofur :
This is why ISPs and web servers keep logs. It has nothing to do with the FBI trying to track your web surfing habits. In fact, you were not even a suspect in this sabotage attempt because I know the IP address that was used was not yours.
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.
Test your firewall.