Re: If naperville... in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r16729254 en Fri, 04 Dec 2009 05:14:03 EDT Fri, 04 Dec 2009 05:14:03 EDT Re: If naperville... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16740074 RadioDoc : AT&T sold out (eventually) to Comcast. Ameritech (Americast) sold to WOW as part of their acquisition by SBC. Irony abounds.
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Toolmaster of La Grange.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16740074 Sat, 19 Aug 2006 18:14:48 EDT Re: If naperville... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16739975 jimkyser : The problem with Naperville is that the central/older part of the city has really good density and would definitely be a cherry to be picked. With the headquarters for Tellabs and a major development facility for Lucent on the north side of town, there are plenty of early adopters in the mix. Where it gets interesting is that some of the more affluent neighborhoods are in the far southwest part of the city where it kept annexing land as developers moved in. It's like there is a long narrow growth to the SW if you look at a map of the city. The density in that area is lower, with larger homes on slightly larger lots. But there's also a lot of common land typical to newer developments and one very large forest preserve. It's almost like Naperville is two distinct towns.

Amazingly, almost the entire town is still served by a CO in the old downtown. This meant that Naperville was very late in getting DSL from SBC as they had to wait for SBC to build out RTs to get to most of the town. It was like one big broadband blackhole. Then AT&T (the old one) sold their cable network to WOW and suddenly about 1/2 the town could get broadband. Then Comcast rolled out broadband on their network and suddenly some people even had two choices. Finally, SBC installed their RTs and most of the town is now covered.

It's the requirement, by the city, that if any part of the city is served, all of the city must be served that has AT&T balking. I'm sure that if they could get away with serving the 60-70% of the people within 3-4 miles of downtown, they would be very happy.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16739975 Sat, 19 Aug 2006 16:23:37 EDT Re: If naperville... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16736670 djdanska : jones intercable did not help much. mediaone was the primary cable company who had hsi back then. (who was just a few miles east)
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When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16736670 Fri, 18 Aug 2006 23:16:43 EDT Re: If naperville... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16736596 Goober : lol, you're right. The operative term was "per capita". Good catch.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16736596 Fri, 18 Aug 2006 23:03:47 EDT Re: If naperville... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16736586 Goober : Very good point.

Naperville was really late to the whole broadband party even initially. Other than for DSL out of the downtown CO, there was no widely available cable internet or DSL until about 6 years ago if I remember correctly. Now, we have WOW, Comcast and SBC (with several RTs).

Density would explain the initial slowness as well.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16736586 Fri, 18 Aug 2006 23:01:43 EDT Re: If naperville... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16734307 marigolds :
said by Goober See Profile :

Naperville would be one of the picked cherries if cherry picking was the only thing driving SBC.
As I mentioned above... probably not.
Density, not income, is the driving factor in where to build out, and Naperville is less than 1.2k households/sq mi. Minimum passable for cable is around 400 households/sq mi. I would not be surprised if Project Lightspeed required more like 2.5k households/sq mi.
With a density that low, large chunks of Naperville are going to be below the 400 threshold and hardly any of the city is going to pass the 2.5k threshold. (In contrast, Chicago is over 5k households/sq mi. for the whole city.)
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said by worldwebpirate :

I've done the reseach, As of the census of 2000, there were 128,358 people, 43,751 households, and 33,644 families residing in the city with a per capita income for the city at $35,551. Not very cherry at all.
That's 104.3k per household!
That's enormous, especially for Illinois

Problem is, rich households don't buy cable tv in strong numbers. I would be curious as to which areas AT&T did not want to build out too. I am guessing low density rather than anything that had to do with income. That's the big problem with high incomes; they have low household densities and hence are pretty unprofitable for buildouts.
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ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
telnet://whip.isca.uiowa.edu
Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16734246 Fri, 18 Aug 2006 16:45:13 EDT Re: If naperville... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16731628 XBL2009 : I think the point should be made very clear that Regional monopolies are no better then national ones. The problem with America Broadband is that the telcom industry is still living in the 70's and the technology is from 2010.

I've repeatably said that the whole industry needs to be broken apart and we should have a National Fiber network with full open access to anybody that wants to sell service to the end customer.

Local governments need to be taken out of the picture all together.
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Look who's talking. You haven't even peeled potatoes for the Military..........REPLY: Neither have Dick Cheney or Karl Rove !!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16731628 Fri, 18 Aug 2006 09:49:36 EDT Re: If naperville... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16731253 bamabrad : Is this right ( for the feds to control this in each state ) spelled out in the Constitution-if so,can any one direct us to the clause in the Constitution that specifically grants this to the feds? Interstate trade? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16731253 Fri, 18 Aug 2006 08:15:17 EDT Re: If naperville... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16730361 Goober : How in the world can you look at 6+ year old data and think that it is current?

I moved here (Naperville) in 1991 and have seen the changes and growth over the last 15 years. As you can see from the table above, this area is quite vibrant, particularly when compared to your 2000 data. Probably too much so.

I cringe when I see the "Best Places to Live" surveys because it drives people here. That being said, if you want to live in a town that takes pride in what it is and where the city council overall makes good decisions for its citizens, this is a nice place to be.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16730361 Fri, 18 Aug 2006 00:49:30 EDT Re: If naperville... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16730200 justmb : OK. Time for some facts, directly from the Naperville City Council's documents.

In short, there are more players involved than just AT&T and Naperville. Read the Council Notes from July, and you can see VP of Tellabs, NCTV, Comcast's Area VP, and the Cable TV and Comm. Association of IL (to stand up for WOW and Comcast) all had something to say on this subject.

Quote from the August 16, 2006 summary:
»www.naperville.il.us/dynamic_con···?id=2314

"Our City Council chose the most responsible option," Burchard said. "One that protected our current revenue stream, minimized potential liability and maximized adherence to the State of Illinois Level Playing Field Statute, which requires that video services be provided to the entire community in a fair and non-discriminatory manner."

The city does not expect AT&T to execute the agreement. "It appears that AT&T may use Naperville to bolster their argument supporting federal legislation that would strip local municipalities of long standing control over video services and rights-of-way in their communities."

In September, the Naperville City Council will consider a new ordinance amending its municipal code that allows more providers of this technology to build in Naperville, as long as the company agrees to comply with Illinois level playing field requirements.

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And now for the July 18th Council Meeting Notes:
»www.naperville.il.us/emplibrary/071806m.pdf

Marc Blakeman represented AT&T and presented a video outlining the
programs available over telephone lines with Project Lightspeed. He stated
that they can provide 100% build out with one of their products. He stated
that AT&T is not a cable company.

..

Council discussed the fact that Federal or State legislation will take the
decision out of the control of local municipalities. Blakeman stated that
AT&T will commit to a five year contract regardless of the legislation.

Krause moved to select Option 3 – to direct that the Memorandum of
Understanding Agreement include a build out provision that requires the
parties to negotiate language within 30 days and schedule a public hearing
on August 15, 2006. Second, Miller.

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You decide. Just use the facts next time.
I can't wait to read the notes from the August 16th meeting. (They don't appear to be available yet.)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16730200 Fri, 18 Aug 2006 00:11:40 EDT Re: If naperville... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16729360 RadioDoc : You clearly have no clue.
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Toolmaster of La Grange.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16729360 Thu, 17 Aug 2006 22:10:41 EDT Re: If naperville... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16729254 djdanska : Naperville has completely changed since 2000. They where #2 in the best place to live in america recently. (Yeah, i know.)
»money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag···622.html
They have the money to battle this out if they wanted. They are not poor.
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When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16729254 Thu, 17 Aug 2006 21:38:38 EDT Re: If naperville... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16728958 anon : I've done the reseach, As of the census of 2000, there were 128,358 people, 43,751 households, and 33,644 families residing in the city with a per capita income for the city at $35,551. Not very cherry at all. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16728958 Thu, 17 Aug 2006 21:27:43 EDT Re: If naperville... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16728929 Goober : Naperville would be one of the picked cherries if cherry picking was the only thing driving SBC.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16728929 Thu, 17 Aug 2006 20:48:13 EDT Re: If naperville... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16728860 rudnicke : Deregulation at it's best.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16728860 Thu, 17 Aug 2006 20:37:52 EDT Re: If naperville... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16728623 xdeadhead : "I have not dealt with many companies that showed less integrity..."

he obviously hasnt dealt with verizon yet.
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I am not herbert.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16728623 Thu, 17 Aug 2006 20:06:55 EDT Re: If naperville... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16728411 owenhome : Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16728411 Thu, 17 Aug 2006 19:38:47 EDT Re: If naperville... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16728276 RadioDoc : Naperville is one very juicy cherry. You might want to do some research before you parrot nonsense.
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Toolmaster of La Grange.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16728276 Thu, 17 Aug 2006 19:26:40 EDT Re: If naperville... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16727892 op : Cause all they(AT&T) want to do is just cherry pick. :(]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16727892 Thu, 17 Aug 2006 18:29:28 EDT If naperville... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16727837 snipper_cr : If naperville isnt getting the upgrade in infrastructure... the other portions of DuPage county wount be seeing it for a long time either...
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Serenity Day - June 23rd 2006. You Can't Stop the Signal]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,16727837 Thu, 17 Aug 2006 18:21:32 EDT